Valentine's Day Expectations

[Tattered Heart]

Valentine's Day is just around the corner.

1. Do you have any expectations for Valentine's Day from your pwBPD?

If so:
a. What can you do to let your pwBPD know what you want for Valentine's Day (they can't read your mind)?
b. What can you do to remove your expectations?

2. Does your pwBPD have any expectations from you for Valentine's Day?

If you suspect so:
a. What can you do to try to open communication up about their expectations (you can't read their mind)?
b. What will you do if they get upset if you do not meet their expectations?

3. What is something special you do for your pwBPD to let them know you care (expected or not expected), not because of their BPD but because you are a couple?

[RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING]

RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members are welcomed to express frustration but must seek constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[Lady Itone]

She's coming to visit me on v.d... , will stay a couple days and check out a group home in my city she might move to. I'll probably get her some of her favorite fancy candies and cook her fav dinner.
We're not officially a couple anymore but I know she still expects something. I don't mind I like having someone to celebrate holidays with.

I remember her birthday last year she asked for 3 specific things: a cake, rum craft cocktails, and a small gift from a mayan craft store. I made all 3 happen, and she still had a meltdown. I felt so sorry for her I couldn't even get upset.

I don't expect anything. She might pick me up something very inexpensive if she can.

[chapter100]

My exgf w/BPD will likely be vacationing in Mexico possibly with a replacement/former cheating partner.  My expectation is for tremendous unhappiness.

[dumpsterdog]

Its going to be hard not to pay any attention to her on valetnes day... but i thini thats my best move at this point... .other year i got her nice cards and she just tore thn up when she got mad... .so maybe she cant handle having soeone dote on her for v day... .or at least not me... .ive sent her v day and christmas cards the last 2 years with no reciprications... so scew it... .maybe a light will come on that im not really that concerned with her bs anymore and not chasing.

[Tattered Heart]

I remember her birthday last year she asked for 3 specific things: a cake, rum craft cocktails, and a small gift from a mayan craft store. I made all 3 happen, and she still had a meltdown. I felt so sorry for her I couldn't even get upset.

Those were very thoughtful gifts and kind of you to get her those things. You're right in that we can't prevent them from melting down. We can choose our own behavior when they melt down though. It sounds like you were able to stay in Wisemind.

[Tattered Heart]

My exgf w/BPD will likely be vacationing in Mexico possibly with a replacement/former cheating partner.  My expectation is for tremendous unhappiness.

I'm sorry that you are going through that chapter100. I would be very sad too. At the same time, there are things you can do for yourself despite your sadness. What's something special that you can do for yourself?

[Tattered Heart]

Its going to be hard not to pay any attention to her on valetnes day... but i thini thats my best move at this point... .other year i got her nice cards and she just tore thn up when she got mad... .so maybe she cant handle having soeone dote on her for v day... .or at least not me... .ive sent her v day and christmas cards the last 2 years with no reciprications... so scew it... .maybe a light will come on that im not really that concerned with her bs anymore and not chasing.

It would be hard for me to watch my pwBPD tear up my gifts too. 

Why do you have to not give her attention? Could you instead just let the day happen as it happens? Maybe you'll see each other, maybe you won't.

You said that you've given her cards before with no return of the same. Do you usually give gifts with the expectation that you will get one in return?

Not chasing is good. It seems like you still have a lot of emotion just under the surface though. What can you do for yourself on VDay to just take care of you.

[Lady Itone]

How do we manage THEIR expectations?

Last night we were videochatting and she got mad and hung up on me (I challenged her belief that everything that's happened to her at 31 years old is her mother's fault) but called me back half an hour later wanting reassurance that I still wanted her with me on Val day. I assured her I did.

Later, she texted me "What's in store for me on v day?" Then she mentioned wanting to get me a couple of things, both of which I thought were a little "much" given our current financial situations and non-relationship status.

I texted back, "I can't spend much, and you don't have to do anything special, ok? Just something simple."

Fingers crossed no drama.

[Tattered Heart]

It's hard when we know there is an expectation on us, but they won't tell us. For some people, if you ask what they want, then they get offended that you can't figure it out yourself.

I usually just try the direct approach by asking what those expectations are, using SET .  Example: Valentine's Day is coming up. I want to make the day special for you. What are you expectations for that day?

Later, she texted me "What's in store for me on v day?" Then she mentioned wanting to get me a couple of things, both of which I thought were a little "much" given our current financial situations and non-relationship status.

I texted back, "I can't spend much, and you don't have to do anything special, ok? Just something simple."

It sounds like she might be building up to having a big expectation. Your response to her was direct and honest which is good. How could you add a little more support/empathy to it, using SET?

Same with letting her know that she doesn't have to do much. IT seems like she may have big plans in her mind of how wonderful the day will be when she buys you these expensive presents. Can you add something that validates her thoughts/efforts/intent on making VDay big, but then ease into the "let's not go too big"? My concern is that just saying "you don't have to do much" might invalidate what she is feeling.

[pearlsw]

I bypassed all this by doing an early platonic (fun for me like when I was in elementary school)  V-day with a friend. I also spread a little joy along to my younger brother with his new budding romance. I got to spread a little cheer to others and I'll buy myself a treat before/on/or after that day as time allows. I bring myself a lot of happiness.   I love dating me. 

[EdR]

I am not a great fan of Valentine's day. And as my pwBPD was a very good friend, this day will probably never work out fine no matter what I would or wouldn't do. I would think it's a veeeeery bad idea to send anything. Would feel completely stupid and weird. But then... .I am almost sure she probably is expecting something.

An example of someone with a unstable self (not necessarily BPD, but similar) in my family:
She was friends with this guy. She was really happy around him and felt way more confident. At some point in time she thought that he was interested in a different way. She panicked and treated him very differently. Everything was weird about him all of a sudden.
But come Valentine's day she complained how he didn't send her a card or something... .

Really odd... .because I am absolutely sure that if he would have send a card, she would have gone ballistic.

In a way, this feels really similar to the dynamics of my own friendship with someone with BPD traits. However, here I am at the receiving end.
And in my case the devaluation phase was just way more crazy.

So I guess that for some people Valentine's day can never be done right.

[dumpsterdog]

There have been so many fouls with regards to holidays and presents... .whatever i have ever given her was either to big , too small, not thoughtful enought, or too thoughtful,not expensive enough or too expensive... .etc... .never appreciated and always critiqued,,and then later when she had gotten in a rage i would find cards shredded or gifts in the trash... or given to the dogs as toys... .blatant disregard for my feelings... .so ... screw it... .im not rewarding bad behavior. ESPECIALLY SINCE SHE BROKE up WITH ME... .NO MORE GIFTS ... .im not rewarding bad behavior again... .i will be fine... .i wont see her we are in different states... .yes i worry that someone else will give her cards flowers etc... .GOOD FOR THEM... .then she will be their cross to bear not mine... .

[Tattered Heart]

There have been so many fouls with regards to holidays and presents... .whatever i have ever given her was either to big , too small, not thoughtful enought, or too thoughtful,not expensive enough or too expensive... .etc... .never appreciated and always critiqued,,and then later when she had gotten in a rage i would find cards shredded or gifts in the trash... or given to the dogs as toys... .blatant disregard for my feelings... .so ... screw it... .im not rewarding bad behavior. ESPECIALLY SINCE SHE BROKE up WITH ME... .NO MORE GIFTS ... .im not rewarding bad behavior again... .i will be fine... .i wont see her we are in different states... .yes i worry that someone else will give her cards flowers etc... .GOOD FOR THEM... .then she will be their cross to bear not mine... .

It's good that you are beginning to explore your boundaries. What personal value would you say is the basis for this boundary?

[Radcliff]

Nothing says "I love you" like... .a restraining order.  Sorry, I know that sounds flip, and I should be careful not to be disrespectful, but honestly I'm pretty upset to be heading into Valentine's Day with this situation, and also thinking about all the previous Valentine's days that were just setups for disappointment.   Hmm... .Wentworth is normally a "glass is 1/16 full" kinda guy, but holidays... .I dread them.  Anything with presents.  Valentine's Day, birthdays, Christmas, anniversaries.  No present is ever good enough.  Now, over the years, I have had some genuinely lame performances, but honestly I think under the right circumstances things could go well.  But we don't seem to have the right circumstances.  Take anniversaries, for instance.  That's a couples thing.  I'd like to be able to have a discussion about what would make us both happy, and celebrate together.  Not somehow be on the hook for convincing my wife that we should still be married, and turning in such an amazing performance that her world is made whole.  Last September, my birthday, was especially disappointing.  I can't remember if that was the birthday I slept on the couch, or if it was the previous year.  Or maybe it was both.  In any event, this year, my wife gave me a wonderful card, the best in years.  And she wrote some wonderful things in it.  Really good stuff.  Less than 24 hours later it was dumped in the kitchen garbage with drama.   

TH, sorry to barf on your party.  You've helped Wentworth discover his inner curmudgeon! 

pearlsw, that was a wonderful idea to have an early Valentine's Day with a friend!  I bet your friend appreciated it!  I remember going to the stationary store to get those cards, and the candy hearts with the writing on them!  Rejection was impossible -- everyone got cards from everyone!

WW

[Lady Itone]

So sad to read of all the painful memories of holidays gone bad. Hopefully it's comforting to know that pretty much everyone has had this experience at one point or another, whether there's a pwBPD in their lives or not. Still, nothing worse than feeling down on a day when you're supposed to be celebrating love, a new year, or a birthday, etc...

Last year on my birthday, my gfBPD was in the psyche ward and didn't acknowledge me turning 45 at all. I was just trying to remember last year's Vday, I think I took her to a nice restaurant and she complained I didn't get her a gift. I guess she must've got me something, but I forget what.

Yesterday she started texting me how she wasn't sure she should come to town on vday, she's broke, etc... I admitted I'd be disappointed, but I understood if it was a hardship and she couldn't come. She wanted to go back and forth about it, but I didn't. I told her to make up her own mind, that I wasn't going to beg or cry or offer to pay for everything.

She responded that I am sexy and now she's definitely coming. Sigh.

[Tattered Heart]

TH, sorry to barf on your party.  You've helped Wentworth discover his inner curmudgeon!  

WW, I'm just going to call you Walter from now on. (Maybe Walter Wentworth  )

Seriously though, I know you are going through a lot right now. Holidays are very tough and when our pwBPD has made them miserable, it's hard to get excited about holidays.

Thankfully for me gift giving comes in last on my love languages list so it isn't very important. My H hasn't celebrated VDay in a very long time, as he thinks it's buying into "the system of commercialization". I usually don't even acknowledge it anymore except saying "Happy VDay. I love you." I've found that the best way to handle holidays that require gift giving is for my H and I to buy a bigger gift for both of us. So instead of buying cards and flowers and chocolate, we will get a new lamp or surround sound speakers, or something for the house that we can both enjoy. As an extra bonus I'll buy a cheesecake that we can have after dinner, or something like that.

This year for VDay, he has to work an overnight shift. So I get to celebrate by myself. Alone time is the best gift for an introvert.  

[dumpsterdog]

Reading all the posts , taking it all in... .I think historically for the past three or four years, i have gottne her cards , candy, cute little bears etc... .one year she got me a card that said " i love you "... then when she was mad about a week later, she confessed she only got me that card because " thats the only one they had at the dollar store, and yuour not even worth that, and thats " just what you say on valentines day, I reeally dont love you"'... .as a matter of fact i cant tell how many times she has told me ... " i dont love you "... .which hurt every time... .and then i would say " what about last week when we had sex and you said you loved me "... .she would reply... ." you cleaned the yard and were nice for a few days so i gave you sex , it means nothing to me... " again... .very hurtful... .so now i'm thinkg, does she just f----- everybody who helps her with something, like  her previous boyfriend was the pool guy... ?
She changed our plans last Thanksgiving, ignoring me to go hiking all day with another man, ( i found out she called him , aftrer they had been facebook friends for over a year and she knew he had a crush on her ) blew me off when i ask her out for her birthday, and went out with that same other man... .so shes been " friends with him " over a year now,,,im sure she will get her v day from from him... .i hate her with all my might as i write this... .why would i even stay in touch , what a   tramp... .and im sure later she will say " you didnt even get me anything and he did "... .so irritating ... i want to just slap her... ( not really , im not dangerous,,,but very annoyed and frustrated. )"

All of that being said... .for the first time on 7 years... .i will get her nothing... .i might send her a note =saying " thinking of you, but you tore up all the other cards i got you in the past and told me you didnt love me and broke up with me, so i didn't get you a card "... .however this might just trigger a rage... .so MAYBE THE ONLY move for my sanity is just letting the day pass and pretend shes dead.

Thoughts.?

It's good that you are beginning to explore your boundaries. What personal value would you say is the basis for this boundary?

[Tattered Heart]

All of that being said... .for the first time on 7 years... .i will get her nothing... .i might send her a note =saying " thinking of you, but you tore up all the other cards i got you in the past and told me you didnt love me and broke up with me, so i didn't get you a card "... .however this might just trigger a rage... .so MAYBE THE ONLY move for my sanity is just letting the day pass and pretend shes dead.

Thoughts.?

I think if you're not going to get her anything, just don't get her anything. No words or explanation is needed. Telling her why you didn't get her anything would be seen as just trying to get her riled up or revenge.

How does pretending that she is dead make things better vs. just acknowledging she isn't in your life anymore?

Anger is normal, but at a certain point, then intense emotions should begin to dissipate. If that's not happening, Is Resentment Blocking Your Healing & Recovery?"

One last note. I think the Detaching Board may be a better board for you to explore some of these intense feelings that you are struggling with. The Bettering Board is for those who want to begin looking at how they can change themselves to begin improving their relationship or to work on a relationship that has recently broken up. The Detaching Board is for those who want to express their hurt and anger about their break up.

[lighthouse9]

I'm really curious about how she will handle Valentine's Day - and mostly just letting my curiosity be the leading emotion right now.

In the past, she's done some really cute things and we even took a trip together once for Valentine's Day. She says she's not into the holiday, but knows that I'm the romantic type so she always ended up doing something really thoughtful or letting me plan something nice.

Since she asked for divorce and moved out, I'll be curious what happens. I'm not planning anything for her or planning on bringing it up, since anything I do to say "I'd still like to work this out" comes off as pressure. I guess it will all depend on what our interaction is like this weekend, when she comes by to pick up the cat and more of her stuff. She's made it pretty clear that she can't do her work with me around, so I'm going to respect that. But, I wouldn't doubt that she'll do something or acknowledge the day, unless we have agreed to a no contact period that includes the day in it. Time will tell.

I have counseling that night, so that will be how I celebrate - by loving myself enough to get help!

Maybe I'll send some cards off to my niece and nephews if I'm up to it - it can feel good to give love, so that might be a nice way to celebrate.

[Tattered Heart]

That's sounds like a great plan. Not investing too much emotion into it and doing something for yourself and those you love on top of it.

[Radcliff]

Tattered Heart -- thanks for understanding.  Your ability to take a situation and manage it with grace and positivity is inspirational.  Cheesecake makes everything better 

lighthouse9 -- directing Valentine's day cheer to relatives is a wonderful, positive idea to direct that energy!

WW

[isilme]

How do we manage THEIR expectations?

This is about where I am now.  For years, I had my own expectations dashed, and somehow, finally, H stepped up and makes sure something nice like flowers at least come my way.  We had one bad year where he'd bought me jewelry, but we never had the "no black box unless it's got a ring in it" rule, and so while it was a nice gift, my disappointment was evident and I could not dial it back (bear in mind we'd been together FAR longer than most people, over a decade at this point, and so my hopes for a proposal (especially when literally, no exaggeration, ALL the people we knew were getting engaged and married, about 30 all told) were not "too ealry" or unrealistic in my opinion.

So I went from hiding tears at not getting anything, to try to be happy he just tried and remembered - (one year he brought flowers to both me and the other lady in my office because he said he felt like it would be mean to only bring them to me.  He DID walk to get them, and arranged them himself, but at the same time, it was a bit of a slight, like there was nothing special at all about me or our relationship, and I guess I was just selfish about it) to now feeling like no matter what I try it's never enough.

I can have a perfectly fine day, simple dinner, store-bought flowers/candy, and be happy.  But HE gets all these expectations but does not communicate them and tells me how much "we" failed for V-day.  Sigh. 

I just get him something I think he may like, and do my best.  I can't control if he likes it, is happy with the amount of romance and passion in the later hours of the night.  So I try really hard to not let ME get hung up on HIS issues about it.

[dumpsterdog]

No I dont expect any " thing " back ... but i guess i view the " occasion card " just as a thoughtful sign she cares... .and she clearly doesnt... .so why bother.

[Mrb87]

For vday my BPDbf expects something but i cant get anything for him.
1. because he set a rule in place to not buy each other gift ever ( but he still asks me all the time to buy him things. then ill have to remind him of the rule he set in place) *the rule was set in place because he was caught cheating multiple times and entertaining his guess with my gifts.

2.If i get him anything i wont receive anything back. not that im looking for something everyday but it would be a normal relationship when u make each other happy but showing it sometimes. it would be nice to be treated fairly on my birthdays, anniversaries, valentines day, x-mas, and have romantic surprise here and there.

what i expect to happen on valentines day is him to say "happy vday" and go out for a quiet dinner. I hope nothing triggers him so we can get in and get out. n

no sex because we havent gotten that back yet because of his wild sexually impulses. ( dont trust him at the moment) i dont wanna great a STD for vday.

[ScaredEmotional]

This will be my first Valentine's Day with my pwBPD and also my first Valentine's Day not single! So for me this is a very special occasion. Sadly I don't know how to articulate to him with out putting too much pressure on him. I'm already pretty sure that he hasn't organised anything for the day. Not that I need or want anything except for him to recognise what day it is and make some sort of effort. I'd be super happy if he came home with some roses or wasthe first to initiate some kind of affection (I've noted before on this DB that it's usually me saying I love you first or kissing him etc).

Me on the other hand, I have a surprise gift being delivered to his work (something he wanted), I have another gift coming that he said he wanted but doesn't know I've ordered yet and I also have another intimate surprise. I was also going to rise early and make him souffle pancakes (something he's wantede to try for a while) for a breakfast in bed surprise.

I love him so much so I have no problem spoiling him on this day. However, I know I will be hurt if he hasn't even made a second thought about the day and I will find that hard to hide, knowing that it will probably set him off.

I guess my goal for this weekend is to let him know that this VD means a lot to me and why.

[Dignity&Strength]

Hi, I'm so glad you asked... .I am always kind of waiting for the other shoe to drop, especially around holidays like this one. Historically, my husband does something, but it's an underhanded, passive aggressive slap in the face. Like, one year, he got me an orange bouquet of flowers instead of red. The next year was the smallest cheap bunch of dying every day flowers. Or the smallest generic box of chocolate. So that if I'm disappointed or offended, he gets to be the victim, and I'm labeled hard to please, ungrateful, or whatever. He says, but those flowers were the prettiest ones in the grocery store to me. Yeah. Right. For Christmas, one year, he got me a pack of pencils and a sticky pad of to do notes, so I could try to get more of my chores done around the house in a timely manner... .yuck... .
So, yes, I just can't wait to see what put down he has disguised as a gift this year... .not really. OH! And this is important to him... .that he sees me be disappointed and have his desired reaction to his obviously less than choice. Like the year of the orange flowers, he said, if you deserved red roses, i would have gotten you those, but seriously, you don't deserve those. My tears after that, his power to control my emotions and make me cry, he really relishes that power. So, I haven't fallen into that trap again, if I could see it.

I always try to get something for him that he likes or needs that he won't buy for himself. He's allergic to peanuts, and likes turtle chocolates. So I may pick a nice, normal box of chocolate for him.  Or something else that's his favorite, like mint chocolate chip ice cream. And then there's this... .I always pick out a card that says exactly how I wish things were, even if they're not. Something that says how I wish I felt... .thankful, lucky, how amazing he is, whatever. People sometimes have a way of living up to our expectations so is use the card to try to raise the bar. Even though it makes me a little nauseous... .
Best wishes this holiday,
MJ

[Radcliff]

Like the year of the orange flowers, he said, if you deserved red roses, i would have gotten you those, but seriously, you don't deserve those. My tears after that, his power to control my emotions and make me cry, he really relishes that power.

MJ, I'm so sorry to hear this.  I hope you have a better Valentine's Day this year.  Can you do anything for yourself so you've got something guaranteed?  Any girlfriends in a similar position who you can take out to lunch?

WW

[Dignity&Strength]

WW,
I'm new, so still trying to figure out replies, quotes and all that.
Yes, I try to do the holiday beforehand, with my son, like a nice meal, or something for myself, like a manicure... .some inexpensive pretty grocery store flowers or small chocolate box. A hallmark movie at home while he's at work... .
I've learned this process for Thanksgiving, Christmas, my birthday, etc.
Self-care, it's a must living in this chaos. And it's easier to have peace during the holiday chaos if Ive already felt like I've honored and experienced it in peace already.
MJ

[Yuu]

We broke up so no plans whatsoever. I wasn't even going to try and get anything because I usually if not always when she is in that (I hate everything I don't want us I am feeling like this for no reason) surprised her with gifts,  flowers, chocolates and even handmade things which I put my feelings into.but she never seemed to appreciate anything. A simple good reaction would've satisfied me. I don't know if she expects anything but I don't think so.we never celebrated it much.

[Radcliff]

MJ, yes, the pre-emptive strike is a great idea, covering your bases before the holiday to lower the stakes.  Smart.  I wonder if it's possible to pull our pwBPD into some sort of preemptive celebration?  A pwBPD who is scared of being "good enough" on a holiday may lash out as a defense mechanism, trying to make us feel worse than they do, or trying to make us responsible when they really are intimidated by delivering on a holiday.  I'm just brainstorming, and will freely admit that my own experience with holidays has been rather poor!  But I have found sometimes that getting some sort of celebration done beforehand can take some pressure off.

Yuu, I'm so sorry for the timing of this holiday coming so shortly after the breakup. 

WW

[Tattered Heart]

I guess my goal for this weekend is to let him know that this VD means a lot to me and why.

I think that is a good goal. I would take it a step further and let him know that you do want something for VDay. I encourge you to go look at DEARMAN technique to help you plan your conversation. If you'd like, you can practice what to say here.

[RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING]

RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members are welcomed to express frustration but must seek constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[Tattered Heart]

For vday my BPDbf expects something but i cant get anything for him.
1. because he set a rule in place to not buy each other gift ever ( but he still asks me all the time to buy him things. then ill have to remind him of the rule he set in place) *the rule was set in place because he was caught cheating multiple times and entertaining his guess with my gifts.

Sometimes our pwBPD makes hard and fast rules on a whim, for whatever reason it is, but then they back away from those rules as situations change. Could this be a rule that you guys re-look at and maybe make some changes to the "policy"?

It sounds he likes to get gifts from you and re-evaluating this might be a way to open up the discussion about what he wants for VDay.

[Tattered Heart]

He says, but those flowers were the prettiest ones in the grocery store to me. Yeah. Right. For Christmas, one year, he got me a pack of pencils and a sticky pad of to do notes, so I could try to get more of my chores done around the house in a timely manner... .yuck... .

So, yes, I just can't wait to see what put down he has disguised as a gift this year... .not really. OH! And this is important to him... .that he sees me be disappointed and have his desired reaction to his obviously less than choice.

I"m going to push just a little here to try to give a possible different perspective.  Could it be possible that he really did think the orange flowers were the prettiest but when he saw that you didn't like them, he had to push his shame away at not living up to what you wanted, and instead attacked you instead?

Just curious, what is the difference between red and orange flowers and their meaning?

I guess I'm seeing some of these gifts in a different light because I don't have the same history. It could be that he is being mean in his gift giving. He also could have a limited ability to think romantically about gift giving.

For instance the sticky notes sounds like something my H would do. Perhaps he heard you say that you need to get more organized with household stuff, or he saw an idea about household organization with sticky notes and thought, "Wow! That's what she wants!".

Many years ago, my H saw that I was starting to take an interest in jewelry. I would come home every few weeks with new jewelry so for my birthday he bought me a jewelry making kit. The necklaces and earring patterns in the kit were hideous and I had never once expressed any interest in making my own jewelry. But in his childlike mind, he thought "She likes jewelry. I'll save her some money on jewelry and she can make her own."

Another year for Christmas  I went to a store and took a pic of a purse I wanted, wrote down the brand name, and gave him the information on which store it was in. On Christmas I expected to open my present to the purse I had shown him, but he bought a different, similar but uglier purse (OK, it was an old lady purse). I masked my disappointment because he was so proud of himself for getting it for me. He said he chose a different one because he thought I'd be happier with him saving money instead. I used that ugly thing for 3 months before it was "time to get a new purse". A part of me felt like he was doing this on purpose, but looking back I realize that maybe it wasn't so on purpose as I thought but instead that he had different agendas in picking out his gift.

[Dignity&Strength]

Hi Tattered Heart,
Thank you for providing a different angle. I agree with you, sometimes it could be a well meaning thing, other times, a mean put down. So much of this has happened over the years, its easy to mix up the details of each of them, they seem to be the same theme. The orange ones actually were pretty, and I think his mean comment came after I said something like, I usually like the traditional red ones, but these really are unique and pretty. So, maybe he perceived my affirmation negatively and resorted to meanness. I don't think I cried over the flowers, but maybe over his mean statement about my less than deserving-ness afterwards.

Some of the gifts are thoughtful, or a part of them are, and if there's a hidden meaning, it is often delivered with a different tone of voice, with devaluing and contempt. Like, the stationary was from a Disney movie I had been watching over and over with our S 18months (Frozen), so he thought I would like that. But, he severely disapproved of my sitting in the recliner holding him while he slept, after nursing him to sleep. He thought I should be doing housework, instead of resting or sleeping myself. (S was a high maintenance infant, I was severely sleep deprived until he turned about 3). So, after his "I knew you liked Frozen" came the ugly "do more housework" comment. A mixed gift.

But overall, yes, I see your point, and think it's always good to check what I think of his efforts, and especially my reaction to them. Give him the benefit of the doubt if it's there. Affirm what I can. It's odd, sometimes I can redirect a mean spirited gift that way, by finding something to affirm instead of the emotional disappointed reaction. The trick there is responding instead of reacting.
Dig. New name, changed over from MJ.

[Radcliff]

I'm smiling/grimacing, because I've been on the other side of this, the guy coming home to a BPD wife.  I have come home with some gifts that I was pretty excited about, but in retrospect, were genuinely lame!  The fact that my wife was totally insensitive about it doesn't change the fact that they were lame   I have learned to work hard to find the truth wrapped in nasty word packages.  So... .I'm betting some of what you have seen is simply "guy excited about lame gift" territory.  TH, how nice of you to make it so simple and specify the purse!  I, too, have ad-libbed off a request, thinking I could make it just a little better by adding my own twist.  I learned my lesson on that one!  (OK, I'm a slow learner, I made that mistake several times, then finally learned

WW

[ScaredEmotional]

I think that is a good goal. I would take it a step further and let him know that you do want something for VDay. I encourge you to go look at DEARMAN technique to help you plan your conversation. If you'd like, you can practice what to say here.

Thanks for you response TH.

Just an update, I did tell him that this VD is important to me because it's our first together and my first with someone. He didn't seem to care too much stating that it's a rubbish day. I will reiterate my care for VD again tonight.

I've just had a look at the DEARMAN link you suggested and I will read over it some more because it sounds like something that I could use quite often, so thank you for that.

I still hold out hope that he will do something romantic for me, after all, he pulled of a surprise engagement that involved my whole family.

[Radcliff]

ScaredEmotional, I went back and read about your plans to pamper your guy on Valentine's Day.  He's a lucky guy!  Let us know how it goes for you!

If things don't seem to be working out as you'd hoped, as you said, you'll want to keep it positive and not activate his shame response.  Chalk it up as an investment -- you are teaching him by example that Valentine's Day can be a nice day.  That's Job 1.  You'll have a whole year to work on things before the next one

WW

[Dignity&Strength]

Thank you, scaredemotional, for pointing out the dear man list!
Ooh, that IS good. It may break down for me around the E, b/c my BPDh isnof the opinion that none of my feelings or opinions are valid, ever. But I am completely excited to try it sometime anyway!
Dig

[Enabler]

I've decided to come up with a covert way of buying W a gift, without buying W a gift... .I have 3 under 10yr Daughters so I've decided to use them as a partial smoke screen... .

Buy some very expensive but very yummy cakes from a french patisserie, coupled with a card to "All my Valentines".

Last year I bought a card and some chocolates and it was jammed angrily into a cupboard in disgust.

She can take or leave any sentiment she likes from this years attempts, I have zero expectations.

[Tattered Heart]

Thank you, scaredemotional, for pointing out the dear man list!
Ooh, that IS good. It may break down for me around the E, b/c my BPDh isnof the opinion that none of my feelings or opinions are valid, ever. But I am completely excited to try it sometime anyway!
Dig

D&S can you share an example of a situatuion where the "E" may not work for you? DEARMAN is good when you are talking about something you want or are trying to negotiate. SET is better for situations where you are trying to tell you pwBPD information they may not like or you want to share something with them. SET works by getting past their defense systems with support and empathy towards them first, then adding in truth.

[Tattered Heart]

I've decided to come up with a covert way of buying W a gift, without buying W a gift... .I have 3 under 10yr Daughters so I've decided to use them as a partial smoke screen... .

Buy some very expensive but very yummy cakes from a french patisserie, coupled with a card to "All my Valentines".

She can take or leave any sentiment she likes from this years attempts, I have zero expectations.

That sounds very sweet. I hope she appreciates yours efforts towards all of your girls.

[RandomName]

I was considering starting my own update thread but I'm going to chime in here with I DON'T KNOW. UexBPDgf and I were NC from 12/25 (uh-huh) until yesterday, after a previous break for months with somewhat low contact, then more intimate recycles (her always initiating and ending), until our last blow-out when I said I thought she might have BPD. She wrote me yesterday in response, disputed it, said I was more likely to have it, but was kind and appreciative overall, and we started texting and talking on the phone again and we didn't mention the elephant in the room. I honestly don't know if I should do something for tomorrow or not, and if so what that should be. We've known each other for a long while but this is the first 2/14 when some sort of gift or whatever has been perhaps expected. She last said weeks ago that she wanted to be friends and yesterday that she was not seeing anyone, but she also reconnected partly because of romantic reasons, mentioning Valentine's, and we flirted quite a bit. I have been in damned-if-I-do, damned-if-I-don't positions before with gestures with her, where instincts have served me and backfired. Part of me thinks "hell, I already thought it was over, so go for it" (flowers most likely), while part of me has that familiar anxiousness.

Any advice would be most appreciated, thanks! 

[Tired_Dad]

Valentine's Day Irrational anger day is just around the corner.

I expect no kindness and the best gift to me from her would to have it be just another Wednesday.

I loath any holiday, event, scheduled activity for all the irrational weight it carries with her.

[Chirimoya]

Well, he just moved out today. To move in with another woman. I cried floods of tears for about an hour, but right now honestly I am feeling great.  Like a baby who has been burped. I plan to make myself some belated Pancake Day breakfast pancakes.  Hell, I might even cut them into heart shapes  

[Enabler]

Well, he just moved out today. To move in with another woman. I cried floods of tears for about an hour, but right now honestly I am feeling great.  Like a baby who has been burped. I plan to make myself some belated Pancake Day breakfast pancakes.  Hell, I might even cut them into heart shapes  

If only the other woman knew what was going to hit her.

You’re very brave and I hope you went large with the Nutella!

[Enabler]

That sounds very sweet. I hope she appreciates yours efforts towards all of your girls.

There’s no doubt she will find external appreciation near impossible, however I hope there’s a little ember in there which glows a few degrees hotter for a few seconds.

[Lady Itone]

After much waffling, she's informed me she IS coming on vday, has bought her bus ticket, and "please don't ruin this trip." (Projection. She's the one that ruins things.)

Then she informed me she wants her valentine present as soon as she gets here. I was like, um, I hadn't planned on presents. I asked her if she got me something she said "No but I want something."

Un-friggin-believable

[Radcliff]

Well, he just moved out today. To move in with another woman. I cried floods of tears for about an hour, but right now honestly I am feeling great.  Like a baby who has been burped. I plan to make myself some belated Pancake Day breakfast pancakes.  Hell, I might even cut them into heart shapes  

What timing... .

Great idea with the pancakes!

I'm going to buy flowers for my daughters and take my mom to dinner.

Good luck everyone!

WW

[Tattered Heart]

I have been in damned-if-I-do, damned-if-I-don't positions before with gestures with her, where instincts have served me and backfired. Part of me thinks "hell, I already thought it was over, so go for it" (flowers most likely), while part of me has that familiar anxiousness.
 

I guess my first question would be: Do you WANT to get her something or do you feel obligated to do so? If your answer to wanting to get her something is yes, then get it. If the answer is that you feel obligated, then I would look at why you feel obligated and reconsider whether you buy something or not.

[dumpsterdog]

So i sent her a brief note monday , stating that i would not be sending her a v day card because she has made it clear that i'm no longer her v tine... .she responded... ." love doesnt exist between humans for me "... .in her typical dramatic victim lingo when shes hermitting... .

So I assured her that love would exist if she chose to let it... .

fast forward... .because i understand her abandonment trigger... .i did sent her a not today stating that i am here for her and that i do love her, and just wanted her to know that even if there was no reciprocation...

she actually did respond very quickly... Thank you ... .I did love you... .and that will maybe always be there, but i just cant hold on to it due to all that has happened,, it is very sad,  but happy valentines day to you as well "


I replied " I understand your point, and yes , it is very sad "


take care of yourself and your dogs'


and i left it at that... .but at least she has come up for air a little and has communicated a little lately ... .even if it sounds morbid, at least its communication.

[Chippy]

I somewhat lucked out and my pwBPD notified me two days ago that she was expecting valentines activities (Despite being very vocal to everyone that "she was going to be her own valentines this year" and wasn't doing anything with anybody). Yes, that's short notice, but I am happy for any notice... .it gave me enough time to get some gifts and plan and shop for dinner for us to make... .so fingers crossed on limited drama :-)

[dumpsterdog]

I think what maked our contact work was that the message was " we are not together  anymore "... i think that took the pressure off... .and just letting her know i still cared without expecting anything on her part i thik was a key... .we shall see... .she at least admitted she loved me and was sad about where things stand now... .so i will be silent for a while and take it as is... .with no expectations.
\

[isilme]

Ok, after the terrible weekend, I guess he managed to get it out of his system - he snuck off during work to pick out his own flowers for me from the store, picked up some chocolates, and even has dinner ready to go when we get home tonight .  He seemed to like his gift (man jewelry box for watches and such, I've gotten him a LOT of watches in 22 Valentines/Birthdays/Christmases) - we will see if his expectations are reasonable for later in the evening or if he has another meltdown like this weekend.  So far, it's been a nice day, hate for it to go downhill. 

Hope everyone else is doing as okay as they can be. 

[ScaredEmotional]

Despite our morning not going how I would have liked, he once again told me he didn't believe in Valentine's Day, the day turned out quite wonderful.
Weeks ago I organised for a giant teddy to be delivered to his work, somehting he had been pointing out he wanted in recent weeks. Needless to say, he loved it and was very appreciative. He told me he also had something for me. I was surprised as I wasn't expecting anything so expectations were low.

We had spoken numerous times on the phone that day as usual and come lunch time, right after we hung up, he appeared at my workplace , flowers and balloons in hand. It was so romantic and I was so thankful! It's all I wanted, acknowledgment of a day that I valued (remebering this is our first VD together). He also brought tickets to a water park for the two of us because he knew how much I loved it last time I went.

Turns out I had a pretty great day. I hope others were pleasantly surprised too

[xyz-Girl]

My exBPDbf and I are on a break rn. it's being a week since it all happened, I am currently with the flu. been in bed all day, and i have not texted him neither he has texted me yet wishing a happy valentine's day. Should i initiate contact? not sure what to do since he was the one that needed the time.

[Dignity&Strength]

Xyz girl,
I truly value making my own choices, based on my own values. Sometimes it takes me a while to define those. I feel better about my choices though, after I've put in the time.

A lesson I have learned, being married to a BPDh, is that I am the caretaker of me. He is not the caretaker of me. That said, I have learned to have no expectations of him, to meet my needs, especially on holidays. Self care, is key to living in this.

Some questions that help me arrive at my values: What are my needs? What can I do to meet those myself, not counting on him for anything? What would I do if he were well? Would I have to? What does this look like since he's not? How can I be the best version of me, with dignity, strength, honor, and integrity, no matter what anybody else does? Above all else, I remind myself, I have value, and dignity as a person and a woman, no matter what he does.

Happy Valentine's Day.
Dig.

[xyz-Girl]

Xyz girl,
I truly value making my own choices, based on my own values. Sometimes it takes me a while to define those. I feel better about my choices though, after I've put in the time.

A lesson I have learned, being married to a BPDh, is that I am the caretaker of me. He is not the caretaker of me. That said, I have learned to have no expectations of him, to meet my needs, especially on holidays. Self care, is key to living in this.

Some questions that help me arrive at my values: What are my needs? What can I do to meet those myself, not counting on him for anything? What would I do if he were well? Would I have to? What does this look like since he's not? How can I be the best version of me, with dignity, strength, honor, and integrity, no matter what anybody else does? Above all else, I remind myself, I have value, and dignity as a person and a woman, no matter what he does.

Happy Valentine's Day.
Dig.

Dig,

Thank you for your response, I understand your advice. I think i never thought i would have no expectations because I never felt any splitting on his side before, this is brand new to me, yes he have broken up before for small stupid reason, we fix it tho. This time seems like he is a different person, and I ended up sending him a text. Not expecting any text in returned tho. I think my heart and mind wants to believe his behavior is because of this condition and not because he is really not interested in me anymore but i am not sure what to think now. It kinda feels he just doesn't want to be with me anymore, and if that is the case then yes, i need to move on with dignity and integrity. maybe i am giving him a free pass because of his condition and the love i have for him? Have you ever had a similar situation happened to you before?

[Dignity&Strength]

Hi xyzgirl,

"maybe i am giving him a free pass because of his condition and the love i have for him? "

Well, I wouldn't call it a free pass. I'd call it making your decisions considering the BPD issue first. Imagine if that didn't exist. What choice would you make? The same or different? I often make family decisions based on the idea, "what would this look like if he didn't have this?"

The "because of your love for him"... .does that unconditionally include everything about him? Just curious, have you read anything on narcissism on this site? Is there a chance you may be missing something he may have done called "love bombing"?

Dig.

[xyz-Girl]

Hi xyzgirl,

"maybe i am giving him a free pass because of his condition and the love i have for him? "

Well, I wouldn't call it a free pass. I'd call it making your decisions considering the BPD issue first. Imagine if that didn't exist. What choice would you make? The same or different? I often make family decisions based on the idea, "what would this look like if he didn't have this?"

The "because of your love for him"... .does that unconditionally include everything about him? Just curious, have you read anything on narcissism on this site? Is there a chance you may be missing something he may have done called "love bombing"?

Dig.

No, I don't think he is a narcissist, neither he did the love bombing technique. And yes, the fact that I am confused with this whole situation is because I am considering his BPD behavior above it all. If he would not have being diagnosed, i would have said bye bye after this. I actually was 3 days in on NC, already had cried a bunch, was accepting the fact that was over when he texted me, I had such pain that it made everything worse, we got into a fight, and now he is taking "his break" dating other girls. I am sure he will text me in a couple of days again and prob deny all his dates. So how am I supposed to trust him? Even if this is all out of his BPD, he might do it again right? I don't think i can handle another situation out of the blue like again  I am scared!

[Dignity&Strength]

Xyz,

I can only share my experiences, truly, because the choices you make belong to you. In my experience, with my BPDh, experiences seem circular. That is, a cycle of good, crisis, semi make up, then back to good. Mine particularly enjoys his power to make me cry. Round and around. Doesn't really matter what the topic is, it's just a somewhat predictable cycle of relational on and off, but in a steady, downward decline of healthy. There are small gains and major losses. I have lost a lot of myself. And blurred my values and severely altered the route to my personal life goals. But nearly all and the worst of that happened in the context of marriage, which changed everything logistically, financially, legally, etc. for me, limiting my options, because he succeeded in isolating me and making me financially dependent on him, since I wanted to be a stay home mom.  I only saw a little bit before the wedding. So truly, I'm not sure what to do with a BPD boyfriend. Maybe others here have better experience there. Warmly, and best wishes, Dig.

[xyz-Girl]

Xyz,

I can only share my experiences, truly, because the choices you make belong to you. In my experience, with my BPDh, experiences seem circular. That is, a cycle of good, crisis, semi make up, then back to good. Mine particularly enjoys his power to make me cry. Round and around. Doesn't really matter what the topic is, it's just a somewhat predictable cycle of relational on and off, but in a steady, downward decline of healthy. There are small gains and major losses. I have lost a lot of myself. And blurred my values and severely altered the route to my personal life goals. But nearly all and the worst of that happened in the context of marriage, which changed everything logistically, financially, legally, etc. for me, limiting my options, because he succeeded in isolating me and making me financially dependent on him, since I wanted to be a stay home mom.  I only saw a little bit before the wedding. So truly, I'm not sure what to do with a BPD boyfriend. Maybe others here have better experience there. Warmly, and best wishes, Dig.

Dig,

Your story really interests me. It is easier for me to see myself in the future still with him since everything is been so recent. Did you know about his BPD before getting married? I feel i have similar goals in life, i also want to be a stay home mom at the beginning. One thing it is very hard for him, I believe, is my independence. I am a very independent person that is confortable being myself and being by myself. We are very different in many aspects, but when we met it seemed that we had a lot of common interests, especially how we saw the world, It's being a long way since that changed in my eyes. I am a person that need my own space, my own time, and he doesn't understand it, i feel that he respects it, and prob has being working really hard on not taking it personal, because this is who i am. A lot of times, he has being pushy about things that we don't agree with, my believes, and interests and many occasions he has made me cry too. Do you think this could get worst? even if he has being working on his therapy and trying to get better for himself? I don't want to lose hope on him, just to be human, but I also have to think about my own well being. When did everything changed for you?

[Tattered Heart]

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