Anyone have any success with meds?

[Devastated Mom]

Hi Everyone

Just wondering if anyone has had any success with any meds in particular? While I know there is no "Magic Pill" for BPD, just wondering if anyone has found anything that has at least helped? My D18 started on Zoloft a little over a year ago. The Zoloft seemed to be working great... .at first! She was much happier on a daily basis and things seemed to be getting better. Her grades improved, she seemed generally "happy". A few months in, she started showing signs of the old behavior again, however less frequent than before, but more explosive in it's intensity when it happened... .physical violence, towards me, my husband and especially her younger sister, breaking things in the house, etc. So bad that at one point she punched her sister in the face and damaged her front teeth, costing us thousands of dollars to repair. About 7 months in to the Zoloft, she felt it was making her gain weight so she stopped it abruptly, against my pleading for her not to, or at least taper. She then went through SSRI withdraw all last summer, despite the psychiatrist trying all different meds to get her back on track... .We tried Topamax- she didn't feel like that did anything at all. Tried Buspar- I felt that made her even more angry and explosive. We then added Klonopin (which she's still "supposed" to be taking- but she only takes it when she wants to) and our last attempt was Wellbutrin at the end of August-which again, I felt made her more angry, and confrontational. In September, a few weeks in to the Wellbutrin, she had somewhat of a suicide attempt (hand full of pills she had saved up and was attempting to take when I walked in the room). The psychiatrist wanted to continue with the Wellbutrin to "see how things go". By December, she was so confrontational and violent, I contacted the psychiatrist and decided to wean her off, however, she ended up just stopping it abruptly, herself. At our last appt with the Psychiatrist, a few weeks ago, she decided she didn't want to try any more meds. Since she's 18, she can make that decision now. I was actually somewhat in agreement with it because, as a nurse, I have seen what psych meds can do- the ups and downs, the lifelong dependency, etc. Plus, she has been so much worse the past 9 months, I had to wonder if all these med changes exacerbated things. She agreed to just continue the Klonopin to help with the anxiety- but she doesn't always take it. 

I haven't seen any improvement, if anything things are worse. She is presently staying with my Mom (after the last violent outburst at home a few weeks ago) but any interaction myself or my youngest daughter has with her results in her finding something, anything to be confrontational about... .despite my "validating questions, statements". I was supposed to attend a session with her at DBT tonight, but she got into a text war with her sister about the way her sister answered her text ... .and then told me she wasn't ever returning to DBT, said it wasn't helping and it was a waste of time. So she refused to go.

I am just wondering if anyone has had any success with any mood stabilizer meds? Anything to take this constant edge off. She was diagnosed with BPD in October and has always had the S&S of BPD, but never to the degree it is now, over the past year.

I am still learning about all this but just trying to figure out why things are so much worse this past year and if there's anything I can do to make it a little better? I've been reading the books, using the validation, etc.  I have my youngest daughter in therapy now as well, to deal with all she has endured physically and emotionally with her sister. I'm trying to help everyone but losing myself in the process. UGH! Any suggestions are appreciated.

Our objective is to better understand the struggles our child faces and to learn the skills to improve our relationship and provide a supportive environment and also improve on our own emotional responses, attitudes and effectiveness as a family leaders

[Yepanotherone]

Just a quick response to this and not one that you might like ... .indeed it goes against every grain I have ! But please read my recent thread on marijuana!  I swear my DD has been  doing so much better off all her meds , (and all the other illegal drugs she’d been messing with !) and just sticking to marijuana.

She swears blind that all the psych meds she was on made her worse with nothing helping ( i concur ! She had 6 hospitalizations while on meds and has had NONE since coming off them all ... go figure !) she said that there is nothing more frustrating for her than being told “ marijuana is bad and you can’t take it coz it will mess you up and it’s still federally illegal ... .but take THESE legal psych meds  “... .but yet feeling as if she was getting even worse on psych meds , but feeling judged and being deemed a “ bad “ person for finding marijuana effective .

[Partridge]

I would suggest a genetic blood test at your own cost under $400.
It helps your doctor elimate the wrong meds and that will speed up better, consistent  behavior.  I know people that this information has worked for.  Please investigate with your physician. Below is pasted an explanation from Pathways Genomics.

See What Personalized, Genetic Medicine Can Do For You
Decipher your genetics to find an accurate medication match that doesn’t rely on guesswork or trial-and-error experimentations. Mental Health DNA Insight can help you and your physician find a treatment plan that works best for you.

With Mental Health DNA Insight, you’ll learn:

How you are likely to respond to 50+ psychiatric medications used in the treatment of depression, anxiety, bipolar disorder, epilepsy, seizures, ADHD, schizophrenia, and other neurological disorders
Which medications should be used with caution and may cause adverse side effects And Which medications may require higher or lower dosages.

[SlyQQ]

There are no recommended meds to treat BPD, they instead try and treat the symptoms which,

in my experience  are mainly used as sedatives or uppers ( seratonin based ones) , and eventually rebound, ( due to tolerence or resistance by the patient to being permanently sedated )

this is particularly nasty when, as often they do, they stop taking there meds in an atypical manic phase
which, is at the worse possible time and makes everything ... .much worse...


( it is very unwise to abruptly stop serotonin medication or removing sedatives such as seroquel when it is the time you might actually need them... .)

[Devastated Mom]

Thank you all for your responses.

Yepanotherone,

I did see your post about the Marijuana and I'd be all for it, if it worked. However, my D18 has been doing that for while anyway and I haven't seen any improvement, unfortunately. I am hopeful though, that maybe once all the other pharmaceutical meds are fully out of her system it may work better? I don't know, I feel like this is all a horrible guessing game.  

Just a quick response to this and not one that you might like ... .indeed it goes against every grain I have ! But please read my recent thread on marijuana!  I swear my DD has been  doing so much better off all her meds , (and all the other illegal drugs she’d been messing with !) and just sticking to marijuana.

She swears blind that all the psych meds she was on made her worse with nothing helping ( i concur ! She had 6 hospitalizations while on meds and has had NONE since coming off them all ... go figure !) she said that there is nothing more frustrating for her than being told “ marijuana is bad and you can’t take it coz it will mess you up and it’s still federally illegal ... .but take THESE legal psych meds  “... .but yet feeling as if she was getting even worse on psych meds , but feeling judged and being deemed a “ bad “ person for finding marijuana effective .

[SurvivingChaos]

I am new to the list but wanted to say that we have had good luck getting the genetic testing to see which meds worked best for our kid (first 3 we tried made him even more suicidal).  I can't remember if we used Genesight or Genelex but you can find it with a quick search and they capped out of pocket expenses at $300.  Based on the results my son is on Effexor which has helped a lot but did not solve the problem.  But echoing what another poster said, cannibis has worked for our son as well.  We live in a place where medical marijuana is legal and so he has a prescription and right now is on CBD Oil (CBD does not have any THC which is what makes you high).  This has made a HUGE difference.  Self harming mostly stopped once we started it.  If we are late on a dose it is obvious and his anxiety goes way up.  The combination of Effexor and CBD oil has not made everything all better but it really helps a lot.

Best of luck!

[bluek9]

Hi Devastated Mom, I've been in this forum for 1 month. I'm here every day reading, posting and learning. I did read the thread about Marijuana. I'm a chemical dependency counselor for the last 20 years. My BPD D lives with me and I'm raising her son my grandson (6). There are so many things to address in your post and in this thread. I'll try to be brief. Yeah the medication hamster wheel is awful! My daughter is 35 currently on Zoloft and abilify. We are working with a psychiatrist right now just to get her to be able to sleep. The PTSD keeps her up all night, along with the paranoia.
   I myself have bee clean from drugs for over 28 years. When I became a counselor I was very hard line about smoking pot, my opinion has changed. My daughter has been smoking for over 10 years. She says it's for her back pain but, what I see is the calming effect on her. She is very good about taking her meds. I do believe they help to a certain degree but like others have said there is no one drug for BP, all they do is help take the edge off the symptoms. My daughter could not get through the day if she didn't smoke. There are definitely boundaries around this which she is willing to keep. No smoking in the house, no smoking in front of her son and we have a set budget for this. We live in Oregon so it's legal here. I find it to be just another tool to use in dealing with her BP.
   Please let me encourage you to keep coming back, learn, learn, learn. I'm sure you will find here like I did that there are a million techniques, suggestions and tools to use. Try some, some work, some don't but there are always options. I've been reading the best books I hate you, don't leave me and The essential family guide BPD by Randi Kreger. All I can say is wow. I didn't have any information when my daughter was growing up, now I feel like I've found real help. I was surprised to learn of the genetic testing I've never heard of that before; but I'm certainly going to investigate. Remember self care for YOU. Dealing with BPD is hard enough, when you're tired, frustrated and worn down it's impossible. I hope to hear more from you. Bluek9

[SlyQQ]

Beta blockers in combination with marijuana to balance some of the effects is something that people should look into

[Yepanotherone]

Hi Devastated Mom, I've been in this forum for 1 month. I'm here every day reading, posting and learning. I did read the thread about Marijuana. I'm a chemical dependency counselor for the last 20 years. My BPD D lives with me and I'm raising her son my grandson (6). There are so many things to address in your post and in this thread. I'll try to be brief. Yeah the medication hamster wheel is awful! My daughter is 35 currently on Zoloft and abilify. We are working with a psychiatrist right now just to get her to be able to sleep. The PTSD keeps her up all night, along with the paranoia.
   I myself have bee clean from drugs for over 28 years. When I became a counselor I was very hard line about smoking pot, my opinion has changed. My daughter has been smoking for over 10 years. She says it's for her back pain but, what I see is the calming effect on her. She is very good about taking her meds. I do believe they help to a certain degree but like others have said there is no one drug for BP, all they do is help take the edge off the symptoms. My daughter could not get through the day if she didn't smoke. There are definitely boundaries around this which she is willing to keep. No smoking in the house, no smoking in front of her son and we have a set budget for this. We live in Oregon so it's legal here. I find it to be just another tool to use in dealing with her BP.
   Please let me encourage you to keep coming back, learn, learn, learn. I'm sure you will find here like I did that there are a million techniques, suggestions and tools to use. Try some, some work, some don't but there are always options. I've been reading the best books I hate you, don't leave me and The essential family guide BPD by Randi Kreger. All I can say is wow. I didn't have any information when my daughter was growing up, now I feel like I've found real help. I was surprised to learn of the genetic testing I've never heard of that before; but I'm certainly going to investigate. Remember self care for YOU. Dealing with BPD is hard enough, when you're tired, frustrated and worn down it's impossible. I hope to hear more from you. Bluek9

Hi Bluek9 , just a wee note to the Abilify . My DD was on that for around 18 months . She started on a 5mg dose , was quickly upped to 10, then 15 then the 20 mg . We ascertained that it was the Abilify that was disturbing her sleep pattern. She tried taking it in the morning , trialed late afternoon and also in the evening but nothing made any difference to her sleep . It was a real problem , she was awake most of the night and as we all know , poor sleep only makes things worse .
My DD got terrible akisthesia while on the Abilify too and literally would pace the house , unable to sit down . She was always ravenously hungry too and put on a lot of weight ( of which she has now lost since coming off all meds ). She was gradually weaned off the Abilify when she stared having involuntary eye movements , her eyes would roll upwards and she couldn’t stop it . This was a known though rare extrapyramidal side effect of the Abilify . She had to discontinue pretty promptly as if left , this would have become a permanent side effect .

Pretty scary stuff these psych meds !

Like you , I was a die hard “ no way to marijuana, it’s a gateway drug , you’ll get addicted and end up on hard drugs “ etc etc . My DD felt very judged because she was using something that society ( and her parents !) heavily frowned upon , but yet it’s the one thing that works for her .

In amongst all my BPD readings , I also bought myself a couple of addiction and substance abuse books so that I could understand that side of things better . And for an addict , that feeling of being judged only makes the addict worse .

I think my DD appreciates our newly formed perceptions and feelings on the whole marijuana thing . I also believe she will stop in her own time . Not when anyone tells her to stop . She knows it’s not a solution to her problems but she uses it to take the edge off of things when needed . It also helps her to sleep . She’s out like a light now and wakens up in the morning after a full nights sleep .

[snowmonkey]

I'm sorry to say that I have never seen ANY medication do any long term good in my exGFwBPD and over the course of four years I had seen her use perhaps 10 - 15 different types.

When we finally split up, she was on 6 or more different medications which included a codeine and benzo addiction. She also took baclofen (to counter her alcohol addiction), dexamphetamine (to counter her sedatives and give her stimulus to function throughout the day), an antidepressant, medication to sleep at night, and two different medications that she alternated for her anxiety to try and minimise her addiction to them and maximise the period for which they would remain effective.

I have seriously spent hundreds of hours in my life sitting in pharmacies waiting for medications to be prepared and driving from one pharmacy to another because she self medicated and the pharmacist would refuse to supply her more.

In my opinion and it is only my opinion, no good can come from trying to medicate your way through BPD, long term you are only making it all worse. As tempting as it often was to help my ex medicate so that I could have a few minutes peace or at least a few hours sleep... .it did her no favours whatsoever.

Please understand though, that I am no doctor and I would be extremely careful in not listening to psychiatrist's advice specifically in the case where there is the potential for self harm or worse.

[Yepanotherone]

Again I’m going to ask people to watch the documentary “ Culture High “. It’s not just about marijuana. It goes into detail about the big pharmaceutical corporations who are making billions of dollars from peddling medication while failing to be transparent with the potential damage and dangers of these medications , the lobbying that goes on and bonuses doctors get when prescribing medications etc etc . I feel like I’m living in a huge freakin conspiracy theory right now! But it does make you think ! 

Our objective is to better understand the struggles our child faces and to learn the skills to improve our relationship and provide a supportive environment and also improve on our own emotional responses, attitudes and effectiveness as a family leaders

[Devastated Mom]

Thanks again for all the responses. I will definitely look into the genetic testing. I had no idea that was even an option. As a nurse (and mother), I am very interested in learning more about that.

I would also like to talk to her more about the marijuana use. I know she's been doing it, but I don't know how much, or when she does it. I'd like to ask her she thinks it helps? I'd like to see her when I know she has used it to see if I notice a difference. I also live in a state where medical marijuana is legal. If it helps her, I would pursue getting a prescription and would be in favor of more regular use.

Thanks again for all great suggestions. Much appreciated!

[DisneyMom]

We saw improvement for my daughter's depression with Lamictal. She was only able to take it for a month because she rashed, but she made such great strides on it, it was the best momentum for her recovery. We went through many other psych medications, and I didn't see anything but awful side effects. A few years ago we took her off everything. She's actually doing much better now.

[wendydarling]

Thanks for raising this Devastated Mom it's a real roller when we are in the thick of it, been there, I hope our collective responses help you and others.

It took 2 years 15/16 of gradual changes, tweaks for my 29DD to get her depression, anxiety... .meds work for her. No side effects others report here.  We did look at natural, homeopathic route but it was too slow - could not find the right person (UK), DD was in crisis.

Yep I shall watch, share with my DD, report back, many thanks for sharing.

I shall revisit meds with DD (been mindful of long term effects), she's a practicing vegan, time is right to seek out alternatives, if they are there. Anyone been or going down same route at this point?

This is a great thread everyone, thanks for helping me think through.