And then there’s the siblings

[Lollypop]

Hi

I’ve two sons. My eldest at 27 has been our challenge, dx at 24 who now lives independently.  Our younger son at 17 is what I think is referred to as a golden child. The two aren’t close but they interact well when together.

Of course son27 is convinced son17 has BPD. He diagnoses everybody it seems at some point.

Son17 is an emotional young man. He’s unhappy and has been since last October. I keep watch. I’ve got support at his college and he’s seen their counsellor a couple of times. He’s started to open up to her and I’m glad he’s got somebody to talk to.

So here’s the thing. Son17 is judgmental, opinionated and black/white thinking. He’s also anti-drugs and this has made him unpopular. He’s intense, boring because he’s bored and he doesn’t like himself very much. He’s been vile to be around this week and it’s just directed at me. I didn’t react how he wanted me to when he told me a girl had opened up that day that she self harms and is suicidal. He did this while I was driving and he got angry because I couldn’t remember that she was in the same class as him. I just didn’t know who he was talking about and he escalated.

I tried talking to him yesterday to talk things through as he’s obviously been affected by what he’d heard. Thankfully he told his counsellor. Then he threw in  “you expect me to be perfect”. I asked him to try and be nicer, I understand he’s feeling moody, but it’d help things be friendlier in the house. He’s tried.

Since the experience of son27 and being here on the forum I’ve learnt to not have expectations. Honestly and truthfully, I have not placed pressure on son17 to be perfect. When I compare myself to other parents I’m really quite laid back and encourage him to solve his own problems. I’ve stepped in once when I discovered he was having sex with an underage girl. However, I’m learning that How I see my parenting isn’t how he sees it.

My son17 has now outgrown the boy I raised. He also believes I love son27 more.

Now hand on heart I love them equally. But I do connect better with son27 - he’s flawed, he’s human, he’s tries and is able to laugh at himself now. Son17 is sullen and tricky; I’m certainly not relaxed when he is nasty. My husband says I need to be firmer and set better boundaries. Goodness, back to that old cookie again.

I’m tired.

I was surprised and taken aback when son17 accused me of wanting him to be perfect. I actually want the opposite. I’m waiting for him to work out who he is. I’m encouraging him to get out of his room, go out on a Friday night (knowing he’ll find himself in some tricky situations) and start growing up. I want him to ease up on himself, lighten up, have some fun and learn it’s ok to let your hair down. I want a well-rounded teenager - well, as well rounded as possible because he’s been raised in this quite dysfunctional family.

I’m sorry this is long. This situation is ridiculous.

It’s also occurred to me that son27 moved out in Oct. Son17 starts playing up.

I love son17 but don’t like him. He doesn’t like himself so that’s says a lot. I’m not sure what to think at the moment. I know he’s scared, anxious and confused.

How can I better support son17?

Thanks for reading

LP

Our objective is to better understand the struggles our child faces and to learn the skills to improve our relationship and provide a supportive environment and also improve on our own emotional responses, attitudes and effectiveness as a family leaders

[Huat]

Oh Lollypop!  ((HUG )

I shook my head when I read your post.  So much of your time and energy has gone into trying to get S-27 on track and now that you are able to finally take a breath, S-17 is making himself known.   A pie is only so big and sometimes one gets/needs more of a share of it than another... .but the pie is only so big.  I'm sure this topic has made more than me think of how our family dynamics have been influenced over the years because of that "squeaky wheel" who has been in our midst.

So now you have another "squeaky wheel" but you also have more knowledge and "work experience" behind you on how to better handle situations with him.

It is good to read that S-17 is working with a counsellor and that you are getting support at his college.  Needless to say, you have the support here, too. 

It is said that what doesn't destroy you, makes you strong.  Girl... .you are strong... .and you make sure to take time to look after yourself!

Huat   ; )

[Feeling Better]

Hi Lollypop

I’m so sorry to hear that you are currently experiencing problems with son17 especially after all that you have been through with son27.

This is just my take on what’s happening with son17 and I could be a million miles away with it. You write that son17 said “you expect me to be perfect” yet you say that you don’t think that you have put any pressure on him to be perfect. What if it’s not about you but about him and he’s putting pressure on himself to be perfect. He’s grown up seeing the way his older brother has behaved and maybe he’s feeling obligated (not sure if that’s the right word to use in this instance) to be ‘better’ than his brother, and not wanting to cause you any grief and so he himself wants to be the ‘perfect son’. Could be he’s struggling with that. But as I said I could be going completely down the wrong track.

[Woolspinner2000]

Hi Lollypop, 

I want to join Huat and Feeling Better in offering you some encouragement. 

I was just telling a friend of mine that I think it's harder to be a parent of adults because we can't fix it anymore like we used to when they were younger. Mine are D31, D29, and S23. S23 is struggling through year one of grad school. He's often grumpy and angry and not feeling well physically. He used to be much more cheery. He calls me each day, just for a couple of minutes, and I mostly try to listen. Like your son, he has started seeing a T and that's helping. The good news is that he is finally connecting with his anger and his struggles which not only include him, but also the dysfunction in our family and his anger towards his dad. It takes patience for me to keep listening, but I do because of my great love for him. He's trying to figure out life too.

My heart was touched last week though when he said that he told his T that he was afraid that he was using up his love quotient with me each time he called me, as if the pot is getting emptied more each time he calls. But then he said he guesses that if I stuck by his sister29 who struggles with emotional regulation and often reminds me of my uBPDm, then he is pretty sure I won't give up on him either.

Hang on. 
Wools

[Lollypop]

Hi Huat, feeling better and woolspinner

I can’t thank you enough. What a fantastic bunch you are. I don’t feel so alone now.

Just woke up at 2pm to hear son17 screaming in his sleep. He’s adamant he didn’t have a nightmare. He was woken from a deep sleep and somewhat confused, heavy sweat and rapid heartbeat. This is a new one for us and him.

Clearly, he’s feeling anxious. I’m really lost at sea not knowing what to do for the best. My gut reaction is get him out of his studies, in a job and new routines. He needs a holiday. Fixer, fixer, fixer.

One day at a time. So this week he’s due to go on a field trip. He doesn’t want to go but it’s a requirement for his exam subject. He’s got a shared room with a group he says he’s ok with. You know that feeling you get when you’re the last to get picked?  I’m predicting that he’ll find a way not to go. Let’s see.

I hate feeling a hovver parent. I hate these labels. I hate not know if I should say “go, it’ll be great” or “it’s ok, you don’t have to go”.  The fact is we all have to do stuff we don’t want to. These are life lessons. But what if he’s really really unhappy and this isn’t a normal 17 year olds anxieties.

My worry factor just went up from 6 to 10. He’s a very unhappy boy.

Thanks everybody. Feeling the support.

Now for a cup of tea.

LP

[Lollypop]

Hi

 

I’ve been very particular on my last 4 years raising son17. I’d learnt the hard way with son27 as everything I did was make things worse. I’ve left my son17 to problem solve, Make his own decision about exams, revision and subject choices including where he takes his A levels. He cleans his own room and does his own washing. He’s needed a lot of emotional support when he’s made a gf mistake. This was the only time I stepped in.

Things are stepping up for him socially and educationally. He doesn’t want the responsibilities that he knows are coming. Exams, university applications, choices, plans. He’s scared and he’s resisting and he blames me (because he wants me to take the responsibility from him). That’s my take on it anyway.

If he stays on to take his a’levels snd continues to be unhappy then he’ll get poor results. Son27 told me this yesterday, I think this makes sense. It’s not about the results though is it. It’s about getting through it, this production line of an education system.

Priority: health and happiness.

It’s tricky. My son is a reasonable student and could do a lot better than manual job.

LP

[Merlot]

My son17 has now outgrown the boy I raised. He also believes I love son27 more.

Now hand on heart I love them equally. But I do connect better with son27 - he’s flawed, he’s human, he’s tries and is able to laugh at himself now. (still trying to work out the quote thing - Merlot)

Hi LP, I too can relate in terms of having a better connection with one child over the other and it's never really changed.  My DD27 is so critical and judgmental of everybody and everything, and is extremely negative... .a glass half full girl... .conversations with her get exhausting.  In fact my mother went as far as to suggest a personality clash, irrespective of BPD, she may be right.

I think it is a natural thing for us as parents to gravitate to certain types of personalities; we do this with everyone and our children are not unique in that regard.  So while we love them, I agree sometimes it is so hard to like them.  I wonder if they sense this, as my eldest has also always accused me of loving my other daughter more.

It sounds like you have a lot your plate with a diagnosed son and now seeing some concerning behaviours with your 17 year old.  No wonder you are so tired.  I get really do get it. 

I hope you get some down time to re-balance, it is hard when they are right in your zone

[Feeling Better]

Hi Lollypop

I just wanted to say that whatever son17 does and however he turns out, you will have done a good job and you will have given your best.

I’m glad you had your lightbulb moment. Your son is becoming a man but he still wants and needs his mum.

As you say, priority:health and happiness, I can live with that too.

It doesn’t matter what son17 does (I think I’d better add  - within reason) as long as he is happy and has you there supporting him. You have given me such good advice and helped me so much in the past, for which I am truly grateful, and your son too will benefit from what you have learned, he is so lucky to have you for his mum (I hope he knows it  ) x

[Lollypop]

Hi

My son27 was dx at 24. I got to work here and focussed on my core relationship with him as my top priority. It came above everything else. I tried my best to keep all the other stuff going: husband, younger son, friends etc ... .

I felt it was my last ditch effort. I’d try the very last thing to fix my family. I’d try the one thing I’d never tried before and that was to stop trying to fix him. I went in blind not knowing if I’d last the week!  My son got reassessed as BPD traits with GAD at 25.  The changes in my approach helped improve our relationship and that directly influenced his behaviours. He’s calm and relaxed with us now (mostly), he’s unguarded and honest - knowing we do not judge.

Merlot:

It doesn’t matter how much we tell them how much we love them. I’ve always spent exactly the same amount of money, treated them the same - from my perspective. I can tell you that my son27 felt disconnected from all of us. He accused us of being some people that he just knew, people he had bad memories of. Once I changed my approach he slowly warmed up. I remember the day I posted here wondering what on earth was going on when son27 got his box of childhood photographs and stuck them over the wall in his bedroom. He could never look at them as he had such negative memories. LBJ replied simoly “he’s feeling the love”.

If this can happen with a tricky BPD adult then surely it can be done with a non-BPD child.  They have to FEEL a connection and it only comes from being in a super nurturing environment. I’ve a house of men, it’s just not girly or touchy feely. I just didn’t realise that both of my sons were orchids and needed perfect conditions. I thought I had dandelions that could thrive anywhere.  I’ve got two sensitive men who are learning to express their emotions. My husband is old school and finds it difficult.

I don’t always get it right - my younger son has missed out and I’ve already started to introduce a few subtle changes and he’s responded well.

Feeling better: thanks for the validation and kind words. It’s much appreciated.

We spend most of our lives focussing on that problem child and it’s just not healthy for the family.  I feel blessed that my son27 is living independently - it’s not all bad stories.  I’m left to deal with the aftermath with my younger son and feel confident we’ll get there. I need this forum to help me.

Hugs

LP

[wendydarling]

Hi LP

Round 2   , we are listening!

I guess it was on the books for your DS17 to claim emotional space with DS27 moving out.  Expecting the investment in core relationship (part of your 3 point plan to connect) you made with DS27? As you say feel the love, nurturing environment, light as a fairy. Different needs, he's doing his washing, cleaning his room, no drugs all great stuff.

If he stays on to take his a’levels snd continues to be unhappy then he’ll get poor results. Son27 told me this yesterday, I think this makes sense. It’s not about the results though is it. It’s about getting through it, this production line of an education system.

Priority: health and happiness.

It’s tricky. My son is a reasonable student and could do a lot better than manual job.

Will he get poor A results if he's unhappy, did your DS27? is that his personal compass, why he's saying DS17 will? It's a difficult age for sure. 'Unhappy' - as average student always, always  doubting herself DD succeeded, it taught her big lessons she can.

Wow, what a difficult situation and conversation for DS17, peer talking of self harm and suicide is hard. It's great he's a school counsellor he can talk to who understands.

I hope you gain some energy here working your way through 

WDx

[Woolspinner2000]

Hi LollyPop, 

I so appreciate the fact that our kids will quite often respond to us when we begin to make adjustments and try to pay more attention to them. It doesn't always work or always work well, but with my own eventually I saw them soften towards me as I stuck it out. I'm glad you are seeing some changes. Keep at it, and be sure to take care of yourself throughout. The process can be pretty grueling at times, especially if they lash out at us. How have you been taking care of yourself and being kind to you?

 
Wools

Our objective is to better understand the struggles our child faces and to learn the skills to improve our relationship and provide a supportive environment and also improve on our own emotional responses, attitudes and effectiveness as a family leaders

[Lollypop]

Hi woolspinner

I’m in a stressy situation at the moment.

I had an altercation with an angry and quite nasty tutor this week (yes, unbelievable). I got to say my skills learnt here on dealing with conflict kept me steady. I was so proud of myself and said “stop, please don’t raise your voice at me. I can’t do this right now”.  I walked away and he’s since apologised.  Having said that I cried a lot afterwards.

I’m in a group exhibition next week and dealing with one very lazy but demanding fellow student and it is incredibly challenging. Sigh. I haven’t dealt with this well. I’ve known her 4 years and try as I might to validate and be nice she ends up irritating the hell out of me.

I’ve looked at my schedule and decided to only go to those sessions I absolutely need to. I’ll work at home. I leave this education establishment in June before moving on in September to do my final year. I’m praying that this fellow student doesn’t follow with me. If she does I’m going to have to ask to be placed somewhere away from her for my own well being.

I’m not sleeping well and I’ve got the mother of a cold sore starting with the stress.

Oh yes, I decided to give up alcohol long term as a start to taking better care of myself. Lose weight. Eat better. I lasted 5 days.

So not good, could be a LOT better.

Taking care of myself is a big problem. I met up with an old work colleague in February. She looked fantastic and I could see the look in her eyes - I’ve lost all sense of who I was. I’m overweight, unfit and would like to change that. But you know, it takes a lot of confidence to join a class when you’re a butterball.

The good news is son27 visited yesterday and talked a lot about his plans, ambitions, house ownership. He’s becoming an entirely different person now he’s independently living.

Son17 has a good trip and is happy.

Husband just wants to be on his boat.

I know this forum is about BPD. But you know, once you start gaining positive momentum there’s other things like “taking good care of yourself” that needs to be learnt. So many years of not doing this and I’ve forgotten just how to put my health needs first. My mental health is ok because of my art and course.

LP

[Merlot]

Merlot:

It doesn’t matter how much we tell them how much we love them. I’ve always spent exactly the same amount of money, treated them the same - from my perspective. I can tell you that my son27 felt disconnected from all of us. 

They have to FEEL a connection and it only comes from being in a super nurturing environment. I’ve a house of men, it’s just not girly or touchy feely. I just didn’t realise that both of my sons were orchids and needed perfect conditions. I thought I had dandelions that could thrive anywhere.

I don’t always get it right - my younger son has missed out and I’ve already started to introduce a few subtle changes and he’s responded well.

Hi LP

I really relate to the portion of you post where you feel as a mum you treated them equally.  I feel this too, however given my DD27 has BPD, I often feel that she has had "more of me" in dealing with her issues and I have really felt for my youngest daughter.  I'm using the skills learnt here too to really focus on her when she calls to make sure she has all of me :-)

I think you're absolutely right in that they have to FEEL the connection, and I am learning much from your posts in how I can improve in that area, so thank you for that.

I really love your analogy about the dandelions, I too have felt this way and I think I am guilty of maybe expecting too much at times.

I have read your last post, and I'm glad you are able to recognise the value in caring for yourself.  I have been working hard on this and managing to get to they gym a few times a week.  It makes a great difference for me.

Thank you for sharing your posts and caring for me in mine.  I hope things improve with your health.

Take care
Merlot

[MomMae]

Hi Lollypop,

Thank you for sharing your personal difficulties in your last post - I can so relate.  And it helps to know that others out there are sometimes struggling with the same issues as me - taking care of my own health and well-being, as well as my family.  It is not always easy to be the cheerleader/conductor for others as well as for ourselves... .we tend to put ourselves on the back burner.
 
Especially in this day and age of facebook, twitter, etc. where people tend to post and boast about accomplishments and how wonderful their life is, it can be easy to feel pretty inadequate and isolated.  I am all for being positive and optimistic, but too much positivity without some reality mixed in, just feels false and depressing to me.

You have been an inspiration to me since I joined this board... .following your heartfelt journey has helped me so much, as have your words of wisdom and encouragement.  What I value most is your unabashed honesty and genuine spirit.

Thinking of you with warm hugs, LP.  You're a wonderful woman and doing an awesome job at life!    MM

[Lollypop]

Mi merlot and mommae

Thank you both for your kind words. They mean a lot. This is a fantastic community. One where we can sob, rant, share sadness and joy and importantly be challenged. It’s in the challenge when we grow. Hugs.

I’ll be off for a few days. Take care of yourselves.

LP