Breakup Threats -- How Do You Deal With Them?

[Radcliff]

One of the most painful things in my relationship has been breakup threats.  My wife has frequently threatened divorce.  She has done this for a couple of decades, though in recent years has really picked up the pace.  With each threat, it feels like our relationship is set back to square one.  It is completely demoralizing to have any progress stripped away in an instant.  Nothing we ever did has any value as soon as the breakup threat comes -- every good moment is forgotten.

One of the things I noticed was that she wanted me to do all the work.  She wanted me to file for divorce.  She wanted me to move out.  Of course, had I done that, she could have played the victim and acted like I was abandoning her.  What ended up happening was that she could invoke any breakup threat drama she wanted, with no consequence -- I saved the relationship and kept us together.  I think many times I rewarded her for the drama by saving things.  Eventually I started wishing she'd just go through with it.  But she never did.  It was liberating when I finally realized that she was going to do what she was going to do.  I refused to save anymore, or respond to breakup threats.  When she said, "I don't need you!" I would say, "I hope we can work it out, but you are a strong, independent woman, and I'm sure you'll do well on your own if you want to get a divorce."  I'm not sure I ever managed to reduce the frequency of the breakup threats, but I did feel less panicked and out of control.

How about you?  What is your experience with breakup threats?  How do you cope?

RC

[PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES]

PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members may appear frustrated but they are here for constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[pearlsw]

Hi RC,

Thanks for this post. This is what brought me to the site - break up threats. May I ask, in your case were they ever real? Did she have a lawyer? Did you ever see papers? (I have.)

I agree with this idea that it basically crumbles the relationship down to nothing. How often did you hear them? And over what ostensibly?

I've felt like at times the longest my relationship "lasts" is one week... .the maximum was up to one and half months last year. So, that does not feel like a serious, long-term relationship to me. Ever. It feels like a temp job. I've found it extremely difficult to bond because of it. Do others notice this too? For me this basically set up a horrible pattern. One I may no longer have the energy to resist. It has simply done too much damage. And no matter how I try to contain it the energy of it is enormous and just keeps seeping into and damaging other parts of my life.

For example, I had shielded my family from it. Now that it is seeping out it has damaged even bigger swaths of my life - really hurt things for me with my family that I can never repair and ironically damaging my ability to leave him as he's demanded many times of me out of his "pain".

I honestly don't want to be with someone who talks to me this way. I resisted the whole way. The hard part is he takes it all back and acts kinda "normal" for awhile and I get lulled into thinking he won't play the breakup card again. Who could keep doing this again and again? But he does and he just makes it bigger and more dramatic and damages me more each time. And then he's sorry and vows to never do it again. (Spoiler alert: he does.)

I know it is hard to speak to the specific experiences of another, and we are not counselors, just peers, but with your experience (or anyone reading) would you say the only way to stop it (if they refuse to stop using this weapon) is to end it?

Why did I put it with it? Early on I didn't get it and it was not so mean. The hurt seemed for reasons that predated me and that time would mellow. Later, after 5 years, it was off-putting and I simply didn't care as much how he felt anymore (he said other demeaning and threatening things) compared to how I felt - wanting to be "happy".

No pressure on you to answer all this! Just putting this out there, taking the chance to hear from others on this... .whether it be support or ideas/insights.

[Enabler]

Hey RC,

I was informed in Sep16 I should move out due to me being abusive -  Abuse = Stop having an affair
In Jan17 I moved back in as it was clear that she did not want to reconcile nor did she have any intention to stop the inappropriate relationship with the other man. She was unhappy about this as I was not playing by her rules... .bad me... .
Mar17 tells me she wants a divorce
Apr - Sep17 does nothing to action
Sep17 "I told you in Mar I wanted a divorce and you're still here" ... .bad me, I'm not playing by her rules again
Oct17 & Nov17 see legal mediator together and agree a divorce plan and asset liquidation plan
Dec17-Current - She has not petitioned for divorce as was agreed, she has done nothing to the house as agreed, I have done the things I agreed to but nothing more

I'm currently being ignored although this typically goes in multi week waves closely tied with menstrual cycle (she's 38 and peri-menapausal).

After discussing with the board I refuse to enable her divorce plans and stick to the mantra of, 'if you want it, you can get it, I don't want this'. She is very much the victim and I think almost revels in the constant state of 'suffering' she envisages herself to be in. She has has the wording, weblinks and support to get the divorce petition done is she so desires.

Her mindset is "I hate you, please leave me".

[UserZer0]

How about you?  What is your experience with breakup threats?  How do you cope?

RC

My memory isn’t too clean on the point, but I’m fairly certain that using “divorce” as the nuclear option during her outbursts didn’t happen until my son started to assert his independence (around 8 years old or so).

Up until that time she did have outbursts that varied in magnitude, but they were relatively low level as I almost always ended up agreeing with her way of doing things unless I felt it was really important.  This meant having to stand my ground once or twice a year at most.

However, as we have very different views on how to discipline and educate children, I found myself more and more at odds with her outlook as the children got older.  This of course meant that I was standing my ground more often on things related to the children.

The fact that the children started becoming more and more independent at this time only helped to increase the frequency of her outbursts as she was confronted with more and more “resistance” to her way of seeing things.

If I remember correctly I think that the “D” bomb was first used in retaliation when I didn’t agree with her methods on discipline for my son.  It was a low yield device at this time and the fallout was cleared away after about half a day, but it started the pattern.  The frequency of “D” bombing and the aftermath of each strike took longer and longer to clear away.

The first (incorrectly identified) DOOMSDAY bomb dropped when I refused to agree with her that it was a good idea to send my son to boarding school as a punishment for him arguing with her.  This was the 1st time that I thought she was serious and I went so far as to speak to a lawyer to ensure that I would at least have shared custody of the children if she actually went thru with her threat.  We managed to weather that storm without her following through on her threats, but it was really like “walking on eggshells” for a few months.

Since that time there have only been a few low level strikes until 2 weeks ago when she inadvertently opened a bill from the lawyer I had consulted (mind you this was almost a year later, but evidently they had finished their “end of year” review or something).  This caused another DOOMSDAY level event, but I took the attitude of the previous poster and basically decided that if she wanted it then she can do all the work.

I even went so far as to tell her this during a discussion (once she had calmed down).  I pointed out that she was using the “D” word like chewing gum and that I wouldn’t be reacting to that type of threat.  She actually made a good comment, saying that she only said it to try to get me to react because I didn’t seem to be reacting to anything else. 

I pointed out that the way to get me to react is to discuss with me instead of threatening and she agreed with this concept. 

Of course, directly after our calm and productive discussion she was back to her old self trying to point out how wrong both I and her sister had been to even think of “hiding” a conversation we had had concerning the possibility of divorce (sigh).

Point of the story: The threat of divorce is a call for attention.  Ignore the threat, wait for things to calm down and then discuss.  If she’s serious about divorce she won’t threaten, she’ll just do it.

[BasementDweller]

Hi, Radcliff -

I must admit, I had a pretty crude and non validating way of responding to my dBPDbf when he did this. I knew it was an angry, testing, defense mechanism, and I gave it little mind. Whenever he’d threaten a break up, or try to initiate one, I’d just very flippantly say “Yeah right. That’s your defense mechanism talking again. I’m not going anywhere, so save your breath.”

He finally admitted after two years that I was right, he was glad I stuck around, and he stopped doing it entirely.

I did the tough love/call the bluff thing, and it worked. It was risky, and might not work for all, but I knew he was full of crap. 

[Tired_Dad]

Standard answer from me: "You are not a prisoner, you can leave at any time. Make a decision if you want to work to make this better or walk away. Get out or stay, it is your decision, but I am not chasing you."

Followed from her: "Why are you always trying to get rid of me."

Me: "You are free to make your own choices. You cannot live on the fence and expect me to be ok with that. You are either in a marriage or you are out, you cannot have both."

Her: "You're a condescending ass that thinks you are always right." Crying, raging etc ensues... .usually threats or a reference to how she believes that she is abused. I stop engaging with her and walk out of the room or close the door to the room I am in.

Rinse and repeat as dis-regulated... .

[FrustratedSpouse]

I feel for you all, but it's encouraging to see that I am not alone... .

My uBPDw has threatened me with divorce/separation every month or so, on average, for about a decade.  I used to shut down at that, walk away and ignore it because the thought of it was too painful.  She has talked with a lawyer on more than one occasion, and gone apartment shopping a few times.  But she always cools off eventually, gives me a few warnings like "if you ever treat me that way again I'm leaving", and then it's back to her normal (?) happy personality where she loves me and treats me well.

As time has gone on, I take her threats less seriously, although they are still every bit as painful.  Lately my response is more along the lines of "Ok, fine.  If you want to leave, then leave.  I can't stop you.  But understand that this is YOUR decision.  I don't want you to leave, I want nothing more than for us to work through this, but it's your call."

Unfortunately, after saying something like that it's clear that all she hears is the "leave" part, because she tells her family and friends that I keep telling her to leave, which isn't even remotely true.

It really does seem like I'm damned if I do, damned if I don't.

[Enabler]

This sounds very childish but I wonder sometimes whether putting “Enablers wife has threatened divorce again” on Facebook every time she threatens to push things forwards with the not so happening divorce. I’m to the point of DO IT OR DONT DO IT JUST DONT DONT DO DO IT!

[Radcliff]

May I ask, in your case were they ever real? Did she have a lawyer? Did you ever see papers? (I have.)

Short answer, no.  She was very convincing.  She threatened hundreds of times over more than 23 years of marriage.  The longest we went without a threat was probably a year.  Each time was more convincing than the last.  She is a very accomplished liar (sadly, I say that simply as a fact, not as an insult).  She would add convincing details, like saying she borrowed money from her brother, or she was at the lawyer's office on such and such a street where there were a lot of lawyer's offices.  She'd talk about divorce details.  She's use inventive ploys like saying, "My lawyer is advising me to take very aggressive action but I want to go easier on you; just get out and don't make me do what my lawyer is advising."  Gawd, just thinking about that makes me ill.  It makes me want to run far away from her, but it also makes me feel empathy for what an awful illness BPD is that would make someone talk like that.  She threatened me so many times I found a lawyer, and talked to the lawyer every few months when things got crazy, for a little over a year before filing the restraining order, at which point my wife was left scrambling to find a lawyer.  I suspected she might not have one, but she could be very convincing, and I was never willing to call her bluff.  She was threatening false domestic violence restraining orders against me, and I was not willing to poke the bear.  Our situation is so full of sad ironies.

I agree with this idea that it basically crumbles the relationship down to nothing. How often did you hear them? And over what ostensibly?

Towards the end, before the restraining order last November, it was about every two weeks.  Really, over almost nothing.  I took her on a lunch date, and awkwardly answered a phone call from a tree contractor because I was concerned he might end up entering our yard with the dog.  She screamed at me all the way home and demanded a divorce when we got home.  So, usually after a minor transgression, or over nothing, just a mood change.

I've felt like at times the longest my relationship "lasts" is one week... .the maximum was up to one and half months last year. So, that does not feel like a serious, long-term relationship to me. Ever. It feels like a temp job. I've found it extremely difficult to bond because of it. Do others notice this too?

That's an interesting way to put it.  Yes, I've been a temporary employee of my wife's for decades   I was able to bond.  I made it my calling to have enough faith for both of us.

For me this basically set up a horrible pattern. One I may no longer have the energy to resist. It has simply done too much damage. And no matter how I try to contain it the energy of it is enormous and just keeps seeping into and damaging other parts of my life.

I kept us together, come hell or high water.  I absorbed all the damage.  Honestly, though, if I'd stopped resisting, I'm not sure she would have taken action.  Maybe.  But I'm not sure she was capable of following through on the threats. Somehow I knew I was the one who would have to be the grownup and make the decisions, or it could have gone on forever.

I honestly don't want to be with someone who talks to me this way. I resisted the whole way. The hard part is he takes it all back and acts kinda "normal" for awhile and I get lulled into thinking he won't play the breakup card again. Who could keep doing this again and again?

Uh... .me.  [Radcliff raises hand in embarrassment.]

... .with your experience (or anyone reading) would you say the only way to stop it (if they refuse to stop using this weapon) is to end it?

It was my experience that I had to take action to end the threats.  But it looks like BasementDweller had some success!

Why did I put it with it? Early on I didn't get it and it was not so mean. The hurt seemed for reasons that predated me and that time would mellow. Later, after 5 years, it was off-putting and I simply didn't care as much how he felt anymore (he said other demeaning and threatening things) compared to how I felt - wanting to be "happy".

It is an epic conflict.  On the one hand, there is this person with an illness who I love, and I understand that they probably won't follow through on the threats.  But I am human.  I want to build something loving and lasting.  And these threats were not just, "I will break up with you," the were, "I will beak up with you and destroy your life as you know it," using very specific and credible threats.  So, in the end, I am completely torn up about what she stands to lose.  But I have reached my limit in how much I am able to sacrifice myself to protect her from the consequences of her actions.  You just cannot expect someone to continue to love you when you keep telling them every couple of weeks that they are garbage

Enabler, UserZer0, BasementDweller, Tired_Dad, and FrustratedSpouse, all of your comments resonated with me, too!  It sounds like we've all employed some of the same coping mechanisms.  Some form of bluff calling, or at least not buying into the drama seems common, though for certain, BasementDweller, you get the prize!

[Enabler]

I seem to be the odd one out, which concerns me that I am living in some state of personal delusion (a concern for some time now)... .You all seem to return to a state where your partners expect you to love them again, i.e. you return at some point to 'marital bliss' and an intimate relationship. For the last 12-18m my W has not returned to this state, at best she returns to a helpless state where she is 'kind' to me and is reciprocates my kind and loving behaviour with civil responses, before reverting to hate/ignoring me and then to pushing the divorce agenda again. She doesn't expect me to love her and in fact I think she finds it quite annoying that I still do. She would prefer me to hate her and validate her disgust for me and the relationship... .and get the divorce she says she wants.

I have dealt with wedding ring throwing for my entire marriage but now it has been removed since Jul17. She feels herself divorced even if legally and bionically (important to her), she is definitely not. 

[Radcliff]

Enabler,

You're not alone.  While I did get that nice birthday card, and it did stay out of the garbage for almost a day (sorry, I'm still a little sore about that), for the last many years of marriage, we never went back to "bliss."  We were usually just slightly north of neutral, sometimes when things were really rolling we got to "very nice" for a while.  The soaring heights, not so much.  We had a little more of that when we were youngsters   And yes, a fair bit of wedding ring throwing.  I just left it where it lay each time.

RC

[Tired_Dad]

I seem to be the odd one out, which concerns me that I am living in some state of personal delusion (a concern for some time now)... .

Trust me when I say that you are not the odd man out

You all seem to return to a state where your partners expect you to love them again, i.e. you return at some point to 'marital bliss' and an intimate relationship. For the last 12-18m my W has not returned to this state, at best she returns to a helpless state where she is 'kind' to me and is reciprocates my kind and loving behaviour with civil responses, before reverting to hate/ignoring me and then to pushing the divorce agenda again. She doesn't expect me to love her and in fact I think she finds it quite annoying that I still do. She would prefer me to hate her and validate her disgust for me and the relationship... .and get the divorce she says she wants.

I can't remember a time of "Wedded Bliss" other than the month immediately following the birth of my son in 2008. When this all first began before we were married I assumed that a lot of it was just stress over the fact that I was going to deploy with the Army for a year or so and that with the Army I was often away at training. I looked at this as a reasonable challenge to overcome and from the family history, her admission of depression, and my lack of understanding I wen all in on trying to convince her that everything will be ok and fully expecting her to come around. It never did, and I don't expect that it ever will all it did was validate her fear of abandonment and when I returned she only began pushing harder.

I have dealt with wedding ring throwing for my entire marriage but now it has been removed since Jul17. She feels herself divorced even if legally and bionically (important to her), she is definitely not.  

I haven't dealt with the wedding ring being thrown the entire  marriage, however the last time she did it she damaged it and I kept it. I was ready to divorce her myself at that time and couldn't take much more. I found out later that she has been "Self Medicating" and stopped her prescribed medications because she was afraid of interactions (read ... use cocaine and not anti-depressant due to risk of side effect //facpalm) but has finally entered a program for recovery and I am willing to let her take this course and support her. As for the ring, every time that I have thought about taking it to be repaired, she does something else to let me know that I shouldn't invest in repairing it so it sits there, on a little hook that's part of the reading lamp hear our bed that I put my ring on every night when I go to bed. She will often complain that I haven't had it repaired yet, and I tell her flat out that it's not locked up and she can take it to be repaired whenever she wants to.

As of now if things do not continue on the path of improvement I am planning to sell it and then have the money from that sale available to her for her legal expenses and for setting up a new apartment.  

[Enabler]

I'd love to say phew to those responses but funnily enough I don't think that is an appropriate response. If I knew what I knew now I would have done the same as Tired_Dad and kept the wedding ring for a long period of time, now it just sits with the engagement ring and full eternity ring in a jewelry box on the dressing table. I have seen messages from her friends laughing and joking about the fact that she could sell the full eternity ring (she begged me to buy her at great expense when we were moving house) and pay for a "nice holiday". At that point it was pretty obvious what kind of moral fiber the friends were made of, friends she thought were of great guidance representing her christian values... .  those that validate the invalid!

Sad to think that I have not kissed my wife on the lips since Sep16. Feels lonely and filling your love cup via kids isn't quite the same as the romance from another adult even if it is fleeting.

[Skip]

It really depends on the circumstances and the frequency, but this is really about values/boundaries.

When it first happens, its probably best to say "lets talk about this later"... .let them get to baseline and see if it comes back.

If it starts be more more that extremely, that is a time to have a values boundary discussion during a time of calm. "Things we don't say in a relationship because they are so destructive we might not recover".

If she does it after, give one or two, let talk about it later and then "we agreed not to do this.".

If it happens again, serve the papers and ask her to move out. It'll cost $750, but it will show that you value yourself and there is a redline to not step over.

With BPD, behavioral solutions work best... .actions over words.

[once removed]

yikes. my ex and i threatened a breakup a million times. when things would get really nasty, one of us would say "its over", and maybe mean it for a couple of hours.

usually when she said it, i upped the ante. my go to reply was "thank god", which ill admit, made me feel kinda cool, but was hurtful, not to mention dishonest and, long term, very destructive.

and then i would usually push it further and start packing my stuff or ignoring her and turn it into a "hey, you asked for it".

messy... .

[Skip]

and then i would usually push it further and start packing my stuff or ignoring her and turn it into a "hey, you asked for it".  messy... . 

Ah, the games people play... .Many of us have. I've always wondered where we learned to encourage things we don't want to happened as it that is a fix... .but we all do it.

It's great that you can reflect on these things, OR.

[Tired_Dad]

I would like to say that I am above it. But in all honesty as I clean the basement, garage, etc and pack things into boxes I am packing things away in separate boxes so that I won't have to go through them later after she moves out.

I am at the point where I feel that it is more likely than not that she will move out... .it's just moving at a glacial pace. We did separate before, and she was the one that moved out and I only let her back in as her therapy seemed to be effective. With what I know now, if she was to leave that would be the end of it. I'm pretty sure that she knows this and that is why she hasn't played the "coming and going" game I see happening with others.

[I_Am_The_Fire]

My now ex (BPD\NPD) didn't threaten to leave or anything like that until towards the end of our marriage when I realized I was codependent and I stopped managing his emotions. By the time I "woke up" (nearly twenty years together), I was done. He was emotionally abusive and I didn't even know it until a therapist helped me to "wake up". Any love I had for him was completely gone and I was closer to hating him than anything, especially when his abuse escalated when I would stand up for myself.

So when he threatened to leave (usually in a rage), I would calmly say "Okay. Bye!" and leave the room. He never left. As I had suspected, he was bluffing and probably wanted me to stop him and profess my "undying love for him" or something like that and I absolutely refused. I called him on his bluff every time and he never followed through with it. The day he decided to move out, he took all of the suitcases and walked out. Not one word to me. He just said "bye" to our oldest. That was it. I later found out the suitcases were empty which was interesting. I'm guessing it looks more dramatic to take all of the suitcases regardless if anything is actually in them.

After that, he would occasionally email me that he was going to end his life. I forwarded them to his then therapist who thanked me for doing the right thing. Then he'd get mad at me that I "tattled" on him. I absolutely refuse to manage his emotions any more and I refuse to let him manipulate me into making him feel better about himself. It may be harsh but I can't let him drag me into that craziness anymore. In communications about the kids, I try to say things like "That sounds rough. I'm sure you'll figure something out." and it seems to be working so far.

[valet]

This is a boundary issue far and away.

My ex threatened breaking up a lot, and I always stepped in, tried to be better, do better, pleaded sometimes even, to save the relationship.

Like Skip says, it would have been better for me (and the relationship) to make my feelings and values more clear, to think about the big picture and overall health of the relationship and be assertive about how these threats were hurtful to me and how I felt about things moving forward.

Then the ball is in their court. They can respect our feelings and boundaries or face the consequences, which in my case now would be ending the relationship.

[Radcliff]

If it happens again, serve the papers and ask her to move out. It'll cost $750, but it will show that you value yourself and there is a redline to not step over.

Hey Skip, I do like the idea of a hard line approach, but am having difficulty seeing how to apply it in certain situations.  For Step 3 as you've outlined it above, let's assume you've got a stay-at-home mom with BPD who is threatening a domestic violence restraining order, and the member works, so can't take care of the kids after school, so it's hard to ask the stay-at-home pwBPD to move out.  Hmmm... .and let's further toughen the situation by saying that the member wanted to try to work on the relationship, and was not willing at the time to follow through on a divorce.  Speaking purely hypothetically of course   If the member's behavior were to say, "I don't want that, I believe we can make it, but I can't stop you." for every divorce threat from #1 through #441, how might he do better?  Hypothetically.

RC

[Enabler]

I agree RC, how do you threaten something you desperately don't want, don't believe is beneficial for your Jnr family members and is somewhat financially catastrophic. I read a Christian book recently called "Love must be tough", recommended by Formflier. It was a great read especially from a Christian perspective which is interwoven in my current issues... .it covered the following examples:

Wife with no kids in a relationship with man who's playing away
Man with no kids in a relationship with woman who's playing away
Wife with kids in a relationship with man who's playing away
Man with kids who's wife walks out and leaves kids with man

It failed to cover the scenario which appears all to common of Man who loves and cares for his kids, who's the primary breadwinner who's married to a stay at home mother who's playing away. How does one realistically hand the ultimatum to said wife when the threat is "I'll move out the house leaving you in the comfortable home I will continue to toil hard for, I will provide you an income and provide fully for our children, whilst you are free to continue your other relationship with the other man... .That'll show you... .wag finger!"

It feels like not giving her what she wants, which is the above, or forcing her to get what she says she wants, is the only way to frustrate her into reassessing her stance that the relationship is and always has been terrible... .and if it is that bad she HAS to do the legwork. The only option is to open the door wide, show her the door is open wide but not push her out the metaphorical cage. Pushing her out is just shooting yourself in the foot.

What option have I missed? 

[Tired_Dad]

At a certain point no matter how much we claim to love our partners a line must be drawn and maintained.

This is not about what we WANT to do but what we HAVE to do for self care and for the care of our children.

Most of us don't WANT to get a divorce, and may experience a financial burden from it, but there is a time when we may HAVE to get a divorce or accept that the madness may never end.

Yes, it is possible to achieve a stability... .but only if they choose that path. We cannot chose the stable path for them, but in time we can choose the more stable path for ourselves.

That is why it is important to maintain our limits, our boundaries, our values and not become tripped up by their erratic and self harming behaviors. To take a divorce completely off the table is counter productive and is a form of black and white thinking that can cause a continuation of the pain.

I don't have all the answers, but I do know that as of now I am functionally a single parent with a crappy part time baby sitter that lives in my house and isolates herself in one room. A divorce would mean I stop being a daily stabilization in her life (and maybe she will grow from that) and she would stop being a source of chaos in my life.

Yes, as of now I am not willing to push her out just due to how I understand and support her through this illness. However, if she steps out and get's an apartment, moves in with her mom, sister or a friend I will lawyer up before the end of the next business day and get things rolling.

After 15 years of this marriage I can say I see her patterns and will protect myself legally as I need to.

[pearlsw]

If it starts be more more that extremely, that is a time to have a values boundary discussion during a time of calm. "Things we don't say in a relationship because they are so destructive we might not recover".

If she does it after, give one or two, let talk about it later and then "we agreed not to do this.".

If it happens again, serve the papers and ask her to move out. It'll cost $750, but it will show that you value yourself and there is a redline to not step over.

With BPD, behavioral solutions work best... .actions over words.

lots of helpful insights in this entire thread to consider. i'v initiated these kinds of discussions. nothing seems to change it. i am afraid i am getting lulled in again to thinking things can stay white. it is agonizing how easy it feels, in my heart, to make a relationship work, but just not this one. never easy. in my case at least there is shame and guilt on his part... .i even get apologies... .but what i don't get is any sense this will ever end unless i end it... .and i can't figure out how yet... .

thanks all! so much to consider, glad more than i can express to "know" others dealing with this issue... .

take care, pearl.

[Enabler]

Ultimately accepting that it will never go back to being good would result in me cutting the proverbial umbilical cord myself rather than enduring her constant procrastinations about a divorce... .but having been recycled 3x before one is never quite sure whether this is finally finally it and no reversion to an intimate but volatile relationship... .and of course one questions whether it would be as volatile now I have the enigma machine and the tools of BPD.

[Chirimoya]

 Thanks for this thread. It is very timely for me.

My partner has threatened to leave on a pretty much weekly basis throughout our 8 year relationship. I used to take it seriously and get very upset, but at some point I just stopped taking it seriously and ignored him pretty.

However, since setting a firm boundary with him 18 months around verbal abuse, he has moved into the spare room and since then our relationship is has basically been platonic. For the last couple of months he has been saying that he wants to separate. We have discussed this in detail in couples counselling and have come up with a separation plan. However, he is not actioning the plan! We had agreed that he would move out, however he's not doing that. He hasn't packed up any of his stuff, and has not found a place to go. It has been 6 weeks now, and I could see this dragging on for months.

It's very confusing indeed as I do not know if he is continuing to live with me principally for financial reasons as he is financially dependent on me. Or because of fear of abandonment. Or because he doesn't really want the relationship to end. It is hard for me to accept that this is the end, after so long not taking his threats to leave seriously. It does feel different this time, like it might take him awhile but he will eventually move out, but I am really struggling to conceptualize this and come to terms with it. It's so confusing. I'm ricocheting between grief over  the supposedly impending separation, anxious doubt that it will not happen, and hope that things can be saved. His behaviour is very erratic and he he is between being grumpy and hostile, and playful and affectionate.

I am trying to be proactive instead of just waiting around on him , so went to see a divorce lawyer this week. But it's tough as I don't really want the relationship to end. I guess as Skip says it basically boils down to values and whether I am prepared to be kept in limbo. It's not much good him staying if he is not prepared to work through any of the problems, which he isn't really as he takes no responsibility.

[Radcliff]

Chirimoya!  So nice to hear from you.  Though I'm sorry that it is under less than good circumstances.

I'm ricocheting between grief over  the supposedly impending separation, anxious doubt that it will not happen, and hope that things can be saved.

Wow, you really hit the nail on the head with this.  I totally understand what you are saying -- this pretty much sums up what I am feeling.

One bit of advice I received in a situation like yours was to put a time limit on it.  A time limit of your own, so you feel in control.  You can give yourself permission to wait a bit, if strong action doesn't feel right now, and if after waiting for that time period, if things haven't changed you may feel easier giving yourself permission to act.  In fact, the presence of a time limit may help you process your feelings and thoughts along the way as the time passes towards the limit.

What do you think?  Might this approach work for you?

RC

[Lakebreeze]

Hi all! This has been a very insightful thread. Thanks to all who have contributed.
I get a break up threat about 4 times a year. So reading this actually made me feel pretty lucky... .once a week, yeah I'd come unglued. Early in our marriage my uBPDh would say he wanted a divorce and then demand that I call a lawyer in the morning. Sounds like a pretty common theme from everyone. I never made the call. At some point along the way I had a discussion with him that threatening divorce was damaging and unacceptable. His mom and step dad scream that they want a divorces frequently, so I acknowledged that this was what he learned and was a pretty "normal" thing for him. So what has happened is the threats still come, same frequency, rarely to my face anymore because I leave before his rage gets that out of control now and refuse to throw gas on the fire. But he texts them always under the guise of "it looks like you probably want a separation." So lots of projection. I never respond. No comment. He words them so tricky that if I say anything it becomes about me.
I have the opposite situation of you Dad's out there who would put themselves in a mess with divorce papers. I am the stay at home mom. So if we divorced he would likely get part custody and our young kids would be in the care of a pretty invalidating care giver half of the time. They already have his genes. I need to do everything in my power to raise them in a healthy and validating environment. And that just doesn't seem like it.
This really gets me thinking about boundries and inforcing them so thanks again.

[Radcliff]

Wow, Lakebreeze, four times a year, that's great!  And, look at us, what a motley crew we are -- you're a rock star because your spouse only threatens to divorce you four times a year.    Seriously, though, it sounds like you took a stand early on, and it helped.  That's great to hear.  I wish I could rewind the clock and try the same thing!

RC

[Chirimoya]

Lakebreeze-good for you for being assertive about this It sounds like you succeeded in getting him to tone it down if not stop it. I understand the projection thing. Now H is thinking of leaving, he keeps on trying to pretend it's a mutual decision. Or he'll ask me aggressively, "is it best if i move out soon? " ie. Tries to get me to take responsibility for his decision... .

Radcliff-vis a vis the time limit-things have developed on that front.  He's now saying he'll pack up and move out in the first couple of weeks of March. I'm going away on a Buddhist retreat then (!) so it will be a good chance for him to pack up with me out of his hair. Again, I don't know how serious he is. This was all decided this morning after I got a painter/ decorator round to price up decorating the house (in case I want to sell it after H moves out), and I think that may have triggered H into an abandonment crisis. Such that he basically then upped his threat to leave me,  possibly? If he doesn't leave then, I'll move forward with legal proceedings to make him move out.  Those could take up to a year as there are various hoops to jump through, so I might as well get started. If it any point, he were to miraculously show a genuine interest in working together to fix things, i would halt proceedings. I have made this very clear to him. But will plan for a separation in the mean time. ...

[Lakebreeze]

Wow, Lakebreeze, four times a year, that's great!  And, look at us, what a motley crew we are -- you're a rock star because your spouse only threatens to divorce you four times a year. 

RC

Thanks! What a crazy existence we have that having a spouse who only threatens to leave 4 times a year is "great" LOL. Sometimes all you can do is laugh in the face of the chaos.

[AgileElephant]

Hey Skip, I do like the idea of a hard line approach, but am having difficulty seeing how to apply it in certain situations.  For Step 3 as you've outlined it above, let's assume you've got a stay-at-home mom with BPD who is threatening a domestic violence restraining order, and the member works, so can't take care of the kids after school, so it's hard to ask the stay-at-home pwBPD to move out.  Hmmm... .and let's further toughen the situation by saying that the member wanted to try to work on the relationship, and was not willing at the time to follow through on a divorce.  Speaking purely hypothetically of course   If the member's behavior were to say, "I don't want that, I believe we can make it, but I can't stop you." for every divorce threat from #1 through #441, how might he do better?  Hypothetically.

RC

Dear God this is pretty much my exact situation. Endless threats, endless rage. And a kid with her own issues in the middle.

[RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING]

RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members are welcomed to express frustration but must seek constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[IWantToLive]

I have dealt with wedding ring throwing for my entire marriage but now it has been removed since Jul17. 

Same here. The wedding ring was thrown so many times and one day when the diamond came off the ring, since then there is no wedding ring. Many times she cribs that I don't get her a wedding ring. Multiple times I have taken her to shops as well (didn't bring myself as she always complained about the original one how she didn't like it) but every time for some excuse or other she refused purchasing. She knows she herself is refusing but for all practical purposes, I am not getting her one.

[IWantToLive]

I agree with this idea that it basically crumbles the relationship down to nothing. How often did you hear them? And over what ostensibly?

I've felt like at times the longest my relationship "lasts" is one week... .the maximum was up to one and half months last year. So, that does not feel like a serious, long-term relationship to me. Ever. It feels like a temp job. I've found it extremely difficult to bond because of it. Do others notice this too? For me this basically set up a horrible pattern. One I may no longer have the energy to resist. It has simply done too much damage. And no matter how I try to contain it the energy of it is enormous and just keeps seeping into and damaging other parts of my life.

For example, I had shielded my family from it. Now that it is seeping out it has damaged even bigger swaths of my life - really hurt things for me with my family that I can never repair and ironically damaging my ability to leave him as he's demanded many times of me out of his "pain".

Every bit of what you have mentioned here is my story too. With 2 kids, I have never been able to muster courage to tell my BPD wife to go ahead and get divorce filed. I too have seen papers. Spoken to lawyers but when it comes to execution time, she backs off. She once got me sign divorce papers by hiding my passport when I was about to travel for an international trip.

I am now no more passionate about my relationship. Wish I had experienced all this before kids happened.

[Enabler]

Recently due to the emotional detachment by W I have started "just doing it for me (and the kids)". Where once I was running around attempting to salve W's stresses (of which there were numerous) I now have a lot of time on my hands to achieve the things I want to do... .

Enabler - The kids and I are doing XYZ this afternoon, fancy coming
Wife - No
Enabler - Fine, see you later, I prepared diner and it's in the oven, nothing for you to do... .laters! 

I'm pretty sure it bugs the hell out of her that I can function without her say so. I'm also planning on doing non-divorce focussed things like getting D9's bedroom desk, delayed due to being unsure whether a desk would be able to fit into a new smaller house post divorce. Blinds for D7 delayed due to "what's the point if we're selling the house in divorce". I'm not having my life put on hold any longer.

[lighthouse9]

This thread has been great but tough to read, thank you everyone for contributing and RC for starting it off.

I'm either at the beginning of the breakup threats or this one time is for real - time will tell. My wife said she wanted a divorce, somewhat out of left field, in the beginning of January and has since moved out. I've asked for a therapeutic separation and for her to take some time and do some counseling before making a final decision. At first, she seemed on board, then she started screaming at me for not doing what she wanted (giving her a divorce). I did what a lot of you have done: Said that this isn't something I want, said that I desire and believe in reconciliation with time, therapy, and distance, and said that if she wants a divorce so badly then she can visit a lawyer and get the paperwork started. I haven't heard anything about the d word since then (this was a few weeks ago), but time will tell.

She came over yesterday to pick up some stuff she left at the house and didn't bring it up at all. I know full well that she could see a lawyer at any point and end things, and I know not to read into her friendliness and calm right now. But, if I weren't reading our situation within the lens of BPD I'd certainly be confused by someone who was demanding a divorce and then dropped all talk of it, while not saying anything like "hey, I'm going to take my time with this" or "maybe we'll revisit this after some space." Thanks to this board, I can see that it is possible that this is the beginning of a pattern, which gives me a better understanding of how to act, protect myself, and stop the bleed.

Again, could be wrong and could be served papers tomorrow (and wouldn't put it past her), but for now I'm letting this ambiguous space play out and I've made my intentions and boundaries clear.

Also, for the record - d-bombing is a brilliant phrase, and as awful as it is, it makes me laugh a little to think of it that way. I can just picture my spouse throwing a big empty cartoon d-bomb at me and me catching it like it's a volleyball or something. That image is at least a little bit comical. Hope I didn't offend anyone by finding humor in all of this.

[Tired_Dad]

Recently due to the emotional detachment by W I have started "just doing it for me (and the kids)". Where once I was running around attempting to salve W's stresses (of which there were numerous) I now have a lot of time on my hands to achieve the things I want to do... .

Enabler - The kids and I are doing XYZ this afternoon, fancy coming
Wife - No
Enabler - Fine, see you later, I prepared diner and it's in the oven, nothing for you to do... .laters! 

I'm pretty sure it bugs the hell out of her that I can function without her say so. I'm also planning on doing non-divorce focussed things like getting D9's bedroom desk, delayed due to being unsure whether a desk would be able to fit into a new smaller house post divorce. Blinds for D7 delayed due to "what's the point if we're selling the house in divorce". I'm not having my life put on hold any longer.

This rings so true for me and is so similar to what I am going through now.

For whatever reason is in her head my wife is unable to just say yes when asked if she wants to join us, or eat, or if she want's anything at the store while we are out. Yet will rage for hours that we don't include her, prepare food for her (she's vegetarian and anorexic so food is a minefield on its own), or that we don't buy things for her.

I have found that I let her storm pass. That I have no space for it anymore in my life and I will not allow her to use conflict to maintain a "connection" with me.

We recently had a slight thaw where she has now returned to sleeping in bed (on top of the covers, but baby steps for now) and had two knights in a row of intimacy (one night even imitated by her) however, that has now flipped and it is the marriage is no good, no one respects me, you just want me for sex, we don't have a marriage, why do you wear your ring since it is just for show/a lie /etc. continuing on with her waking up hours after us, showering and leaving to then rage at us for not asking her where she is going (when normally she rages if we ask where she is going) then returning to the isolation of the upstairs bedroom.

I guess my point is that it comes down to the overarching inability to take accountability or responsibility for their own choices and actions. Threatening divorce without action is like every other empty promise or intent in their lives from their promise to love us, leave us, find someone else, get a job, keep a job or kill themselves. To me the prevalent trait is the inability to follow through or be stable with anything, including divorce.

[Tired_Dad]

This thread has been great but tough to read, thank you everyone for contributing and RC for starting it off.

I'm either at the beginning of the breakup threats or this one time is for real - time will tell. My wife said she wanted a divorce, somewhat out of left field, in the beginning of January and has since moved out.

If you have not yet consulted a lawyer do so. Depending on what you locality is her leaving may give you significant leverage during a divorce. Make sure that you keep a journal, meet her in open places, have the GPS of your phone record where you are as it is very possible that she could claim abuse. Keep all texts and emails... .everything. It may sound ridiculously paranoid but if she is tearing you down behind your back to her friends and family she to what she believes is abusive it can set the stage for many legal problems for you.

Be strong, stand for what you need and take a close look inward to see if you really need her in your life or if you only want her in your life.

[Enabler]

It may sound ridiculously paranoid but if she is tearing you down behind your back to her friends and family she to what she believes is abusive it can set the stage for many legal problems for you.

Threatening divorce but not following through with it IS ABUSE.

Yes, we could leave, but so could the man/woman threatened with physical harm.

[lighthouse9]

Thanks all - I've talked to a lawyer and have what I need documented. Her leverage is low and I'm prepared to end it if things take a turn in the wrong direction. We've already divided our assets and have everything written out, and there wasn't much to divide. Bases covered, but I appreciate the concern.

She can tear me down all she wants behind my back, but the people that would believe it are not credible, and the ones who are credible both know better and will not want to get involved. Similar story here - I haven't torn her down to others and have been careful in the way I talk about it.

I don't agree with the statement that threatening divorce but not following through with it is abuse. If it's a tactic to manipulate someone, then sure, it is a form of emotional abuse, as is any other manipulative tactic. A lot of people get to the point where they think divorce is the only way out, and then with some time realize there's another solution. Not defending anyone's partner or mine who has threatened divorce, but given that I'm at the first threat, I'm prone to take this one seriously and protect myself accordingly, while still stating what I desire (reconciliation) and the terms upon which it is possible.

[Enabler]

Small JADE here but I meant in reference to our pwBPD who regularly threaten divorce in what seems like an attempt to gain obedience or instill pain fear and chaos.