press assault charges?

[Before you can make things better, you have to stop making them worse...]

I hope formflier weighs in on this. You might send him a DM.

So my first read of your post is that she wants you to give away your leverage in hopes that she might cooperate regarding a smooth and easy divorce.

DANGER DANGER DANGER

She also wants you to waive any sort of consequences by having a TRO so that it won't damage her future employment.

Other people seem to think she's crazy too. Is this the sort of person that should even have a "secret clearance"?

My thought is that she completely lacks remorse over what she's done to you, judging by her previous accusations. And that she wants you to attend Batterers classes!

Maybe I'm not the forgiving type after having lived with an extremely abusive ex for so many years, but it looks like a "give em an inch and they'll take a yard" kinda deal with her. Frankly, I wouldn't trust that she would keep her word.

I think you have to hold all the cards you can. Don't give away your Aces just because she hasn't any. I think you'll need the best hand you can play because she's shown herself already not to be trustworthy.

[Cat Familiar]

I hope formflier weighs in on this. You might send him a DM.

So my first read of your post is that she wants you to give away your leverage in hopes that she might cooperate regarding a smooth and easy divorce.

DANGER DANGER DANGER

She also wants you to waive any sort of consequences by having a TRO so that it won't damage her future employment.

Other people seem to think she's crazy too. Is this the sort of person that should even have a "secret clearance"?

My thought is that she completely lacks remorse over what she's done to you, judging by her previous accusations. And that she wants you to attend Batterers classes!

Maybe I'm not the forgiving type after having lived with an extremely abusive ex for so many years, but it looks like a "give em an inch and they'll take a yard" kinda deal with her. Frankly, I wouldn't trust that she would keep her word.

I think you have to hold all the cards you can. Don't give away your Aces just because she hasn't any. I think you'll need the best hand you can play because she's shown herself already not to be trustworthy.

[greenyard]

I did more homework on the protective order. Even if at some future time I motion the court to drop it, it will be on her record and will be difficult to expunge. A PO will prevent her from working at schools, hospitals, no working with children, and in some states, she wont be able to get a hunting licences.

So she has genuine concern, and she knows that I'll sink her in court. I have a full house and I'm not going to give up my aces.

In light of her new desire to divorce, and plea for leniency, I think I can leverage this to my advantage. I don't think I'm going to say anything how I'm going to do this on here in case she is on this site... .I will PM you Cat and FF.

[SunandMoon]

Greenyard, I'm glad FF and Cat are giving you such good advice. Listen carefully to what Cat is saying.

Your wife is changing the rules by the day, based on her feelings in the moment and her need to avoid any responsibility for what she has done.

You sound like a nice guy who's still trying to protect her.

Be prepared for her to not only try to take your house but to burn it to the ground. That's BPD.

Personally I would be sticking to the plan you and your lawyer have worked out... .in court today and PO as the consequence.

Divorce negotiations will come next and I doubt she'll show any kindness. I'm really sorry it's come to this.

[greenyard]

Since my last posting, I'm already getting more threats from her lawyer that she'll take everything I'm worth including the kitchen sink and that it will be UGLY unless I drop the PO... .I may postpone it just to get some breathing room now that I see their concerns (and "mother bear" aggression).

[greenyard]

Yes, she definitely lacks remorse and is playing the victim. I may not be perfect, but she's distorting the truth and fabricating big lies.

[ForeverDad]

My story... .my spouse had been increasingly critical of me, ranting and raging more frequently.  Well, one day she seemed particularly angry.  I kept my voice recorder handy.  She declared she would kill me.  I stepped away and dialed 911.  I only had time to state "family dispute" before she grabbed the handset, hung up, threatened me again and threw the phone in my direction.  It hit the wall and broke.  Police arrived and they talked to both of us.  Well, both talked to her, one talked to me.  One officer asked me to pass our quietly sobbing preschooler to her and "step away".  He shrieked and clung tighter to me.  Only later did I conclude my son 'saved' me from a ride in the back of a police cruiser and perhaps time in jail.  Later I downloaded the recording and another officer came out.  Partway through the recording he was ready to stop and make his report for me to sign.  He emphasized to me not to back away from my report.  He said if I did I'd regret it.

I did not cave and her case went on from continuance to continuance.  She refused ADA's settlement offer with just Anger Management class.  Four months later at the trial she admitted making threats but the judge ruled her Not Guilty of "imminent" Threat of DV by applying case law.  A few years later she had it expunged.

That's my story.  I had a preschooler.  I couldn't just walk away.  I had another 15 years ahead parenting our child.

Your situation, no children... .Frankly, that's the difference between your case and mine.  You can walk away.  Please listen to the collective wisdom expressed here.  You can't afford to be the Nice Guy or else she will walk all over you and trounce you badly.  I'm serious, the legal threats have already been made.

You want her to learn from this, that she can't do this any more.  Maybe she will, anything can happen.  But it would be more likely for me to spit across the Grand Canyon and it make it to the other side.  Okay, that's hyperbole, but that's my point.  She is highly unlikely to respond positively.  The old story, You can drag a horse (mule?) to water but you can't make it drink.

That said, you need to contain the situation and look out for your own interests (and self-preservation) first.  I didn't read exactly what she did to get arrested or charges filed.  I don't much care.  The point is that you are in a good position to guide the outcome.  If you Gift that away then you're not helping her, you're only sabotaging yourself.

IMHO... .As much as you love her, she really doesn't love you.  Otherwise she wouldn't repeatedly abuse you.  Is she "damaged goods"?  Of course and not your fault.  Can you fix her?  Unlikely and you put yourself at great risk (emotional, financial, legal) if you try.

First things first, the gun and ammo in her possession.  With the order as it is now, the police should have confiscated it from her already.  If not, why not?  Frankly, even if they ought to be returned to you, those should be held in safekeeping until this is all over so she can't claim you later used them to threaten her.

As I said, I haven't read the entire history posted here but the fact is this is not the first time she has violently raged at you.  If you get back with her it is almost a certainty she will rage violently again, if not soon then eventually.  She will try to return to her past comfort zone of periodic rages.  But she will have learned from this and next time she will frame you better as the aggressor.  Can you risk that?

She will improve only if she wants to improve.  Forcing sessions in counseling or therapy won't work unless she applies it diligently in her life, thinking, perceptions and actions.  I would venture to say that none of us here, with our collective experiences, see her ready to do that thus far.

So, besides the guns, what to do?  Save yourself a lot of grief and huge legal costs and a difficult divorce.  Protect yourself by ending the unhealthy and dysfunctional marriage.  Cut her loose, release the wrong fish back into the sea, give yourself time to recover from this and then find a healthier fish who won't attack you.

You want her to pay damages.  If she can't even afford a place to stay, what are the chances of getting reparations?  Let It Go.

IMHO again... .Your terms need to be firm... .  Likely her case can be continued a couple times while you handle the divorce.  Meanwhile you two promptly divorce, uncontested.  Neither owes the other any money or support.  Any joint bank or credit accounts are emptied by agreement and closed.  Any joint ownership or obligations (car titles, property deeds or mortgages, loans, etc) are closed out by agreement.  In other words, if you can walk away, she can walk away.  Or else.  The gun and such immediately get turned over to someone you trust for safekeeping during all this, well, if not already confiscated and held by police.

Yes, she ought to have consequences.  But, frankly, what are the odds of her responding positively to consequences?  You need to protect yourself first and everything else later.  Maybe the next guy she tries to abuse will look up her court history and saves himself some grief.  But I just had a thought, you're probably not the first she has raged at, she might even have a legal history of her own accusing her former BFs and lovers and getting them stuck with POs and ROs.  Did anyone research her past allegations in courts?

I'm so sorry.  We've seen this play out with so many members here.  We wanted our dreams and fair tales to work out.  Those dreams are dashed.  Accept that the marriage is Toast.  Accept you need to move on and deal with What Now?  (Acceptance is one of five steps grieving a relationship loss.  Do a search.)  With her reactions (through her lawyers) thus far, there's no indication anything can be salvaged from the marriage.  Protect yourself legally.  Stay in counseling.  Let Go.  Move On.

[greenyard]

Thanks so much folks for all the considerate and thought out responses. It really really means a lot to me.

I'm quite sure the marriage is not salvageable at this point and its all about protecting myself physically, financially, and legally.

As Cat told me in a PM in response to her lawyer's threats based on lies, "I think you're right--that you two are done. Sorry, but you're dodging a bullet here. Once they get that volatile, it's hard to go back and that becomes the new default position when dysregulated."

I will attempt to postpone the hearing in the morning with the intent to attempt to use this PO as leverage to gain advantage in a divorce settlement. If she doesn't buy into that, well, I guess we go to court and try to slap her with a PO.

I'll let you know how it goes later... .

[greenyard]

Soo, they are really changing the rules by the hour.

Last night they now tried to file a PO against me alleging that I raped her, along with other things that are untrue. Fortunately the efile system would not take it for whatever reason.

So, They are proposing an agreement where I drop the ex-parte PO and agree to a separation agreement (same requirements as the PO, I keep house and car, etc)... .otherwise nuclear war starts.

This f'in sucks. They are playing very dirty basing claims on lies. I don't think I can stomach nuclear war, especially with rape charges.
I'm going to have to back off on the PO and go with the separation agreement, and proceed with divorce. My lawyer recommends this path unless I want to deal with a very long and drawn out litigation case. Whether

I definitely feel like I'm losing leverage.

[greenyard]

seems that she is going to escape consequences... .unless i go the nuclear route... .i just can't stomach that... .there are no children... .i just need to protect myself at this point... .

[BasementDweller]

i just need to protect myself at this point... .

I couldn't agree more. Protect yourself by fighting back with the ferocity of a cornered wolverine.

Falsely accusing you of rape as a means to blackmail and threaten you into dropping a PO that she deeply, heartily deserves? OH. HELL. NO. Go nuclear, go full bore, show no mercy. Because none will be shown to you. Please do think very hard about keeping that PO in place, and throwing everything you have got at her, including a slander charge. What good would it do anybody to reward false accusations of such a sickening violent crime?

You must be made of steel, because if I were you, I'd be dancing around in the mirror, air boxing to the Rocky theme, and frothing at the mouth to get into court and go full-blown balls-out nuclear, and fight to the death over this. I'd probably be camped out outside the court the night before, unable to contain my bloodthirst. 

[greenyard]

Falsely accusing you of rape as a means to blackmail and threaten you into dropping a PO that she deeply, heartily deserves? OH. HELL. NO. Go nuclear, go full bore, show no mercy. Because none will be shown to you. Please do think very hard about keeping that PO in place, and throwing everything you have got at her, including a slander charge. What good would it do anybody to reward false accusations of such a sickening violent crime?

You must be made of steel, because if I were you, I'd be dancing around in the mirror, air boxing to the Rocky theme, and frothing at the mouth to get into court and go full-blown balls-out nuclear, and fight to the death over this. I'd probably be camped out outside the court the night before, unable to contain my bloodthirst.  Devilish

I agree in spirit... .but the reality is I can't stomach it. I have a life to live and work to do and still have the divorce to deal with.  I'm tired... .very very tired... .I want to move on and just be myself again. It's a shame, I know.

[BasementDweller]

Ultimately, it's your decision to make. I'm sorry to hear about your situation. It sounds horrible. I definitely wish you the best, and I hope for a good outcome for you. 

[Cat Familiar]

So sorry it's gotten to this point. It won't feel like this now, but in retrospect, I think you'll see it as a "gift" of sorts. She's shown her hand and how dirty she's willing to play and it has given you a clean break emotionally. It will take a while to get over the betrayal, but at least you won't pine for years for "the one who got away" now that you know who she truly is and what she's capable of.

My question is why even have a separation agreement at this point? Why not immediately proceed with the divorce?

[formflier]

Sorry I've been away... vertigo sucks.  Something going in in inner ear.

You have a case... she has threats.

Only give up your case if she gives up her threats.  Sworn affidavit that she is threatening you with false claims, agreement she will never raise those or similar issues again.

Perhaps then you can move on.

Don't give away aces... without getting some back.

FF

[greenyard]

So sorry it's gotten to this point. It won't feel like this now, but in retrospect, I think you'll see it as a "gift" of sorts. She's shown her hand and how dirty she's willing to play and it has given you a clean break emotionally. It will take a while to get over the betrayal, but at least you won't pine for years for "the one who got away" now that you know who she truly is and what she's capable of.

My question is why even have a separation agreement at this point? Why not immediately proceed with the divorce?

Thanks Cat.

We are proceeding with divorce immediately. She filed a regular no fault divorce petition. And with it requested a TRO (containing separation agreement terms, all the same as the ex parte PO I requested). So in terms of immediate and short term legal protection, I'm getting what I want.

What I'm losing are the long term consequences that are associated with a PO. I'm giving this up because I dont want to face false allegations of rape, multiple attempted murders, etc. My lawyer was supportive and believes that I did not do any of those things, but warned me that it will be a lot of work facing them and will cost a lot of money.

She was bluffing... .the bluff came with a real bite. I just don't know if I can take those wounds. She doesn't have a job. I do. She doesnt have a career, I do. Going down a nuclear path would certainly lead to loss of that career and significant wealth. I PM'd you Cat and Formflier, you know what I do - I can't give that up. I'm already losing the marriage, I'm not also giving up my career.

Anyway, I've already stepped back... .The hearing time is past... .paperwork is already in motion towards a divorce. Now it just comes down to breaking the pieces apart and picking them up... .

[formflier]

Did she put in writing that her allegations won't be brought?

[greenyard]

Did she put in writing that her allegations won't be brought?

NO.

Formflier, thank you so much for the guidance and support. I see and agree with where you are going. It seems that I can't push this matter in that direction, either by lack of commitment on my part, confusion on my part, fear, etc, and also my lawyer pushing back and recommending the amicable path. It wasn't until 430am this morning that I got a copy of her "affidavit" and allegations. I was already running on only 2 hours of sleep. Perhaps if there was more time, and their false allegations were aired out a day ahead, I would have been more prepared and be willing to fight in the hearing. My lawyer said that getting a hearing postponement would have been unlikely because everyone was already at court.

I do have recorded conversation of us discussing the "uncomfortable" sex the day after, that she now alleges as rape, and in that recording  it was clearing consensual.

The allegations on both sides will come up during the divorce. I don't know if a hearing today and airing out our dirty laundry would have gained me anything in the divorce. At least that is what my lawyer told me. He said i have a win because I'm still getting the protection I need without having to fight false allegations.

That said, my sister had a BPDbf for 4 years. She broke up with him 6 years ago, and has been married for almost 4. Till this day, her exBPDbf still stalks her. I'm not sure what I can do to protect myself long term after this divorce. But it will be something on my mind.

ok. I may be talking in circles here. Its difficlut to stay brave. I'm in shock and fear... .Its difficult to think clearly. To your point about evidence, perponderance vs beyond resonable doubt. The false allegations of rape and attempt at murder and seriously injuring her does not meet the "beyond reasonable doubt". Its just her word. As for family court, I do have a good perponderance of evidence against her claims, and supporting my claims of violence and abuse... .I guess we'll just have to see where that goes.

I was told by my lawyer that a psych eval, even if she were found to have BPD and other conditions (anxiety, etc) wont do anything to affect the outcome of property division in a divorce. But perhaps I should insist on one anyway to further suppress any frivolous criminal charges should she go there.

[ForeverDad]

Most allegations fall under the "how old is the incident?" scale.  Courts generally give less weight to claims older than 6 months, seeing them as 'stale', though older incidents can be used to build credibility of a pattern of behaviors.

What documentation would she have of an alleged rape?  Does she have a date?  Pictures?  Did she tell anyone who would be credibly independent as someone she told back then?

One way to deal with this is that (1) she looks bad so she is trying to make you look worse and (2) this is 'sour grapes' blaming you for the end of the relationship and the pickle she is in now.  Whether that would be a good legal defense, well... .

My ex was arrested for Threat of DV, death threats.  Since she looked bad, she evidently didn't feel she could claim I was abusive, so she made increasingly aggressive child abuse claims.  The first was so weak, that I hurt our preschooler when he tipped his bike on a bicycle path at a local park.  They got worse after that.  To my knowledge she made only one allegation that I was abusive to her, years later when I was seeking full custody in Change of Circumstances.  The court included a brief paragraph that she claimed I'd choked her before we separated years prior.  It merely logged it, no one asked me to respond to that allegation, probably because the court questioned her credibility concerning her testimony in that same finding.

[greenyard]

What documentation would she have of an alleged rape?  Does she have a date?  Pictures?  Did she tell anyone who would be credibly independent as someone she told back then?

Just her word. No other documentation. She doesn't even keep a journal. So not much substance there. It was back in December. I actually have a recorded phone conversation with her the day after where we talked about the "crappy sex", where she was into it at first but then wasn't and somehow after the sex she retracted her consent. Of course we've had sex several dozen times after that... .If it were rape, you don't come back for more.

One way to deal with this is that (1) she looks bad so she is trying to make you look worse and (2) this is 'sour grapes' blaming you for the end of the relationship and the pickle she is in now.  Whether that would be a good legal defense, well... .

I suspect this is the situation. After thinking about this ordeal over the weekend, basically her lawyer sandbagged me with "serious allegations" at the 11h hour, literally, at 11pm at night, they tried to file a PO against me. So I had no chance to prepare. I think in retrospect  I should have been consistent and held my ground despite my lawyer's recommendation to take the easy way out.

I still haven't heard anything from the lawyer on the next steps. One thing for sure, my wife did file a petition for divorce. Hopefully we can get the waiting period waived and move forward as quickly as possible so I can move on in life.

[greenyard]

I'm now feeling regretful for not going to court on friday and fighting the frivolous allegations... .Its truely an abimination. I have a much clearer story than she does, back by emails and phone calls. I need to figure out how we can undo this "temporary order" and have a long term protective order in place. and get this divorce accelerated.

[formflier]

 
Yep... .

Don't give away aces... .unless you get one or more back.

She likely feels "emboldened"


Best of luck getting this switched around.

FF