I am tired and have nothing left for her

[VIDEO: "What is parental alienation?"]

Thanks for sharing. It's interesting that your son ended up with you more. One of my concerns has been that it would only make sense for me to move closer to work if we separated. If I lived round the corner I could get these extra bits of time. But if an hour away it would be harder for those extras to happen.

Your partner doesn't seem as high functioning as mine. Mine's threatening to quit work if she doesn't get her way - I've told her it would be a mistake. Think mine will at least think about our son when it comes to dealing with capital.

Did you get much judgement from people when you separated? I don't relish the thought of having to deal with people who don't know the background to my situation. When I talk 1-on-1 to people in my circle they understand. Without that context, I can't help but wonder if people will go to default social opinions (liberal in my context) and the general silence about women who act badly to men behind closed doors. I know I'm over thinking this, and that people with any life experience tend to be more understanding, but curious nonetheless... .

[Numbers321]

Thanks for sharing. It's interesting that your son ended up with you more. One of my concerns has been that it would only make sense for me to move closer to work if we separated. If I lived round the corner I could get these extra bits of time. But if an hour away it would be harder for those extras to happen.

Your partner doesn't seem as high functioning as mine. Mine's threatening to quit work if she doesn't get her way - I've told her it would be a mistake. Think mine will at least think about our son when it comes to dealing with capital.

Did you get much judgement from people when you separated? I don't relish the thought of having to deal with people who don't know the background to my situation. When I talk 1-on-1 to people in my circle they understand. Without that context, I can't help but wonder if people will go to default social opinions (liberal in my context) and the general silence about women who act badly to men behind closed doors. I know I'm over thinking this, and that people with any life experience tend to be more understanding, but curious nonetheless... .

[Tired_Dad]

One of my concerns has been that it would only make sense for me to move closer to work if we separated. If I lived round the corner I could get these extra bits of time. But if an hour away it would be harder for those extras to happen.

When we separated she first moved to a relatively nice apartment complex and she was working and was at that point functioning fairly well. Eventually as she dis-regulated more and wasn't able to keep up with her paperwork to get paid (she was a fee for service therapist) she moved out into a much less desirable neighborhood and apartment. Both of these were within 10-15 minutes of my home and both were about the same distance from my son's school as our home. He didn't end up with me more through any legal or informal agreements, it was simply that she was not able to function as a parent and needed to escape into her head.

Your partner doesn't seem as high functioning as mine. Mine's threatening to quit work if she doesn't get her way - I've told her it would be a mistake. Think mine will at least think about our son when it comes to dealing with capital.

Mine was encouraged to leave her job as a therapist by me as it was destroying her since she is/was completely unable to separate her emotions from those of her clients and was re-traumatizing herself on a daily basis. Also as a person with near to no time management, money management, or directional skills the fee for service outreach model was a terrible fit. On paper she was earning about $30 per client hour, by the time all was said and done and she did all of her paperwork, driving, extra time with clients and other agencies she making the equivalent of about $10 per hour (based on a 40hr work week which she was never able to attain). She was actually taking in more money at a part time waitressing job that she worked for a short period of time after leaving her agency than as a mental health clinician.

Did you get much judgement from people when you separated? I don't relish the thought of having to deal with people who don't know the background to my situation. When I talk 1-on-1 to people in my circle they understand. Without that context, I can't help but wonder if people will go to default social opinions (liberal in my context) and the general silence about women who act badly to men behind closed doors. I know I'm over thinking this, and that people with any life experience tend to be more understanding, but curious nonetheless... .

I had so much support from my friends and family that I never felt judged at all. Even her family was fairly (not completely) supportive towards my side of the situation. Since then she has been poisoning the water with her family towards me, but they don't provide nearly the support in our day to day lives as my side so it's not an issue. I credit this to just being open with my family with what I am going through, and with consistently attempting to get her family to help and support her recovery efforts. Though it hasn't succeeded in getting her the help, it does keep everyone informed as to what the current situation is.

[Tired_Dad]

Coming up on what will most likely be an eventful and interesting (though most likely not pleasant) week.

After some dramatic outbursts from my wife that I interpret as coming from her anxiety over the upcoming court date on Friday for an Assault charge that she is pressing against a former friend and a matching assault charge that the former friend is pressing against her she has waffled excessively about how she is going to handle this situation.

I have given her some advice to contact a lawyer and that we can pay for it, she has not done so at this time as she thinks that SHE cannot pay for it and cannot see past the money in her own account to understand the overall household budget. She also does not understand how our legal system works and feels that if she doesn't show up it won't matter in regards to her defense. Though unlikely to get the maximum, the law states: "Whoever commits an assault or an assault and battery upon another shall be punished by imprisonment for not more than 2 1/2 years in a house of correction or by a fine of not more than $1,000".

I will say that if she got a month or longer in lockup over this she may be forced to get the mental health that she needs. If she gets a fine, I will have to push her to get a job as I will not be paying it out directly. Even though I let her know that we could get a lawyer, I feel that the rejection of or inability to accept advice and counsel is a deliberate decision that she will need to accept the consequences of.

I'm not sure as to how the process goes myself as I have never been involved in proceedings of this nature, but I do know that if she is found guilty that it will have repercussions not only on her but on the family and I will most likely have to take some form of action to separate "Her" from "Us" in regards to any penalty.

[Speck]

Hey, Tired_Dad:

It's great to get an update from you. Yes, this sounds like quite an un-fun week for you (and your wife).

Did your wife and this lady just get into a catfight and now it's morphed into a court case?

I hope whatever comes from this is a blessing, in whatever form that may take.


-Speck

[Tired_Dad]

Did your wife and this lady just get into a catfight and now it's morphed into a court case?

Calling it a Cat Fight would be a very generous explanation of events. Calling it two women suffering from overlapping mental health disorders would be far more accurate.

My spouse decided that she wanted to go to the bar at a local chain restaurant and have a beer and feel like an adult following her NA meeting (poor decision #1). Either the former friend was already there eating, or had just arrived and they had an interaction (poor decision #2)

Both of them filed police reports, the other women did it the night of, my wife did it the next day. From the description of events to me I suggested to my wife to press charges or to stop talking about it (take an action or drop it mentality for me) which she did (good decision #1). From the dates of the charges against my wife it appears that the other woman filed as soon as it was apparent that charges were filed against her.

My wife is at a significant disadvantage. She did not get the police to come out to the restaurant so there were no statements collected from witnesses nor any official reports at the scene. The other woman has a witness that is not her spouse and that is a police officer from a neighboring city which depending on what he attests to can make this very difficult for my wife in a "he said she said" circumstance.

I read both police reports, both statements are probable and very likely if edited together are a fairly accurate description of the events. Both women suffer from what I observe as BPD/NPD so obviously neither of them think that this is their fault.

Either way, thank you for the support and the sounding board.

[Speck]

Hey, Tired_Dad:

Thank you for sharing this story.

Calling it a Cat Fight would be a very generous explanation of events. Calling it two women suffering from overlapping mental health disorders would be far more accurate.

I see. 

Either way, thank you for the support and the sounding board.

You got it!


-Speck

[Tired_Dad]

You can't make these things up.

After weeks and months of rejecting my help with her legal issues my wife calls today in a crying panic because the "Lawyer of the day" for today and tomorrow that is assigned to the courthouse called out sick. So she has called and hung up on me once and ended the next call abruptly because she doesn't want to hear me tell her that the options for her defense are severely limited now.

So let me lay this out:
1) We can afford a lawyer and have no business relying on the free services that are better suited for those in a less advantageous situation
2) I have been telling her since before our last hearing on 2/23 that she was going to need a lawyer. Promptly told by her that she's "Got it under control."
3) She repeatedly vacillates between saying she has this under control and that she isn't going to appear.
4) I am not rescuing her. I will help, assist, guide, and even pay for this ... .but I am NOT going to take over and fix this and rescue her as I have done in the past.

Ok, so there it is for today. I am working on a contingency plan for if she is fined or remanded into custody and expect minimal impact to daily life and other than moving forward one step at a time.

[Tired_Dad]

We have drifted further down the rabbit hope.

She went to crisis and she was sectioned (?) at a local hospital and cannot check herself out. Hopefully this will help her get the treatment that she needs.

[Speck]

Hello, Tired_Dad:

Thanks for the update.

We have drifted further down the rabbit hole.

My word, this has really gotten out of hand. I see what you mean. Your wife seems really dysregulated right now.

She went to crisis and she was sectioned (?) at a local hospital and cannot check herself out. Hopefully this will help her get the treatment that she needs.

Yes. If she's under a 24-hour watch, she has been deemed to be at risk to either herself or others. I am sorry this is going on in your life. But, it seems that you have created some healthy distance between yourself and her drama, and are not in the rescuing position. So... .that's great!

Keep on, keeping on.


-Speck

[JNChell]

Tired_Dad, “Hopefully this will help her get the treatment she needs Does this mean that you’re leaving her issues up to her to handle and taking care of yourself first? Leave her there Tired_Dad. It is not up to you to get her released, to wait around for when and to take care of her after. Let her do this herself. Step back and watch her do it herself. Don’t intervene one little bit. I suggest you drop her on her ass with all of the help you’ve been providing her. Speaking of all of the help you’ve been providing her? How do you feel at the end of the day when you have no energy left for yourself. She’s a grown ass woman. I’m sure that she’s told you that in different words. Let her be one.

[Tired_Dad]

Speck,

Last night was a good night for reinforcing my limit setting. As it was Cub Scout night and it's pinewood derby season my focus was on my son and working with him at his meeting and also answering his questions about this which are surprisingly few. He is concerned, but not in a worried state that I can tell.

After that I went to visit her to see how she was being treated and to see that she is safe. Long story short she got angry, told me to leave, got angry when I went to leave, got angry when I went to stay... .I gave her one last opportunity to stop fighting and with that left for the night.

Had a good conversation with her mom and brother and so far there is a consensus that this was necessary.

[Numbers321]

> "Long story short she got angry, told me to leave, got angry when I went to leave, got angry when I went to stay... .I gave her one last opportunity to stop fighting and with that left for the night."

Well done - I've fallen for that a lot. The situation sounds pretty chaotic and while you seem to handle it well, it sounds like a recipe for continuing drama and must be taking more of a toll. Hope you can find a path towards a more permanent solution.

[Speck]

Good morning, Tired_Dad:

Last night was a good night for reinforcing my limit setting.

I think that's great.

After that I went to visit her to see how she was being treated and to see that she is safe. Long story short she got angry, told me to leave, got angry when I went to leave, got angry when I went to stay... .I gave her one last opportunity to stop fighting and with that left for the night.

Although this all sounds perfectly horrible for both of you, you are handling it like a strong, mature adult. This is, at least, a good model for your wife to witness. She needs to see what the ramifications of her behavior look like.

Had a good conversation with her mom and brother and so far there is a consensus that this was necessary.

I'm glad they were able to see with their own eyes what's going on and to validate what you're going through.


No need to tell you to hang in there, because, heck, that's your middle name! But, if you need to dump your chunky thoughts somewhere, we're always listening.


-Speck

[Tired_Dad]

So she has been placed in a bed in a facility and to me that is the best thing that can happen for her. She was informed today or last night by the psychologist/psychiatrist (not sure which) that they will not be releasing her over the weekend that because she was sectioned that they have 72hrs and weekends don't count.

She was angry of course, stating that if she knew this she wouldn't have gone to crisis. Ranting about having a "bad day" and upset that the Dr. did not introduce himself and that he was unprofessional.

All that said she has been having a bad decade, not day. If she didn't go to crisis we would probably be preparing for a funeral and not gathering her a change of clothes, and as with all interactions with a BPD I am suspect whenever someone is labeled as unprofessional or rude as it often isn't the case (not never, but just often enough to never trust that assessment).

I am keeping my limits. I am letting her mother take the lead and supporting but not rescuing. My son is currently adapting well, and the house is calm and is actually getting clean as I can make as much noise cleaning as I want without worrying about triggering her.

[Lucky Jim]

Hey TD, It sounds like you are doing fairly well under very stressful circumstances.  Glad to hear you are keeping your limitations in mind.  Make sure to take care of YOU in the midst of everything else.  Hang in there and keep us posted,

LJ

[Speck]

Hello, Tired_Dad:

Just wanted to pop in and tell you how much I admire the way you're handling this latest episode. Your Son, no doubt, is benefitting from your continued presence.


-Speck

[Tired_Dad]

Small update.

I took my son to visit his mother on Sunday and it went well. The visits are supervised at their facility and that may have aided in her keeping her composure. However she is actually taking her medication and eating so I'm sure that is having an impact.

My son is dealing with all of this fairly well. He is concerned about his mother, but not overwhelmed or worried about the situation. He is being great and is taking on some additional responsibilities and it opened up the discussion for a formal allowance arrangement for him to recognize his increased responsibility. He is doing some limit testing, but that can be expected in a situation like this.

As a side note he drew a picture of a house for her, and as she is an art therapist she inherently interprets it. There is a bit of a standard to it that indicates stability and a sense of safety in children and my son without prompting hit all of the key measures in the drawing. It's not the most definitive test ever, but it is nice to see that by some quantitative measure he is doing well.

She did get upset on the phone with me on Sunday night. My father fell down and I was staying there to help him out and my son was at her mother's for the night to help out with the situation. My wife called me and was asking rapid fire questions about the situation faster than I could answer her and then drifted into negative projection on "busy bodies" in my family that know too much about what is going on with her. I did not JADE with her, explained that I will answer the questions that she asks and if she slowed down I would be happy to discuss with her. She stated she wanted to end the conversation several times to which I answered "ok" to and she just became more angry that I was just putting my hands up or that I was running away when things get hard. She even attempted to reference back to the ER when I set my limit with her and refused to stay when she kept telling me to leave and complaining when I would go.

We ended the conversation and she was crying and upset and I really didn't have any sympathy or even any empathy for it as I held my ground and would not be blamed for her choices.

She is trying to get released early. I am considering going to a lawyer over the next day or so and consulting with them. I am mulling over having a protective order issued or some other kind of legally binding arrangement that will keep her out of the house if she does not complete the program or leaves against the judgment of a Dr. I feel if she gets herself back into the house without truly addressing her issues that she will just fall back into her negative behaviors and dig in like a tick and will be much harder to remove when the time comes.

[Speck]

Hello, Tired_Dad:

Good to hear from you again. I just have a couple of things to add:

She is trying to get released early. I am considering going to a lawyer over the next day or so and consulting with them. I am mulling over having a protective order issued or some other kind of legally binding arrangement that will keep her out of the house if she does not complete the program or leaves against the judgment of a Dr.

I imagine that the 72-hour window for SI holds is over by now. I think it's great that she's participating in an inpatient program. Is this program designed to be ongoing for a set number of days?

I feel if she gets herself back into the house without truly addressing her issues that she will just fall back into her negative behaviors and dig in like a tick and will be much harder to remove when the time comes.

I hear you on that point and know it must weigh heavy on your mind. Let us know how it goes.


-Speck

[Tired_Dad]

So as of 1130 today she was released from the local treatment facility.

I'm ambivalent that she is home and I can only hope that she uses the last week as a stepping stone to further her own health.

The new down side, apparently her stay there triggered a contact with DCF and now an investigator is meeting with my son at his school, will be meeting with my wife after that and wants to meet with me at her office tomorrow. Though I am glad on some levels that there is a bit of oversight into her release, I am not thrilled with any DCF involvement as it can spin out of control very far and very fast. I do not anticipate that there will be any issues as my son is not abused by either of us (there is a her overall behavior that can rise to the level of emotional abuse but that is for another post) the house is clean, we have food, and the bills are paid.

It probably would've been better if I had the time to get some legal assistance and sorted out if she should be in the house or not. Right now I need to deal with the situation as it is and will see if she is rational and following her treatment plan when I get home and make some decisions then.

[Lucky Jim]

Hang in there, Tired Dad.  You are holding up well in an incredibly stressful situation.  BTW, I was once involved in a DCF investigation myself due to my Ex's abusive behavior towards me, not the kids, triggered by a report filed by a former T who was concerned about what was happening to me under the same roof as my kids.  The DCF investigation is a pain in the neck and intrusive for your son, but I'm confident that you can get through it OK because neither of you have abused your son.  Same thing happened with me: neither of us ever abused the kids and the investigation was a non-starter.

LuckyJim

[Speck]

Tired_Dad:

I know you are not delighted by this turn of events, but from all that you have shared with us thus far, it sounds like you are a zen master of just rolling with what life brings you.

I, too, am glad that there is some oversight concerning your wife's recent discharge from a mental facility, but like you, I wouldn't relish the DCF showing up at my front door. It's just one more layer of drama to add to the already thick shellack of it coating your life right now.

We're always here... .


-Speck

[Tired_Dad]

Today at my lunch I met with the worker from DCF. The woman was very professional and showed genuine interest in my son and in the wellbeing of my wife.

We spoke for nearly an hour and she indicated that she believes that my son is safe in the house and that there is adequate support to keep my son safe. We discussed her diagnosis a bit and Borderline was a diagnosis that she used and did state that my wife disputes this. Hearing that is reassuring to me as it does help reaffirm that I am not going crazy and when she tries to gaslight me.

It was also nice to get an affirmation from an outside source that I am using skills appropriately and that my influence is apparent in my son.

[Speck]

Hello again, Tired_Dad:

It was also nice to get an affirmation from an outside source that I am using skills appropriately and that my influence is apparent in my son.

Whew! Well, that went over well. And, yes, I'm glad that you have a second pair of eyes on this that confirms for you that you are stalwartly doing your part in this madness. Did the DCF worker already have the BPD diagnosis on the tip of her tongue, or did she simply agree with your take on the matter?


-Speck

[Tired_Dad]

The social worker had BPD in her notes before speaking with me.

[Harley Quinn]

That must have been validating for you TD.  I'm so pleased to see that things are moving in a positive direction for you.  Where from here?

Love and light x

[Speck]

The social worker had BPD in her notes before speaking with me.

Ahhhhh... .well, as unfortunate as it is to have a loved one diagnosed with BPD, I am glad that others know what is going on for your wife and, by extension, what YOU are having to deal with.

I hope you have a good weekend.


-Speck

[Tired_Dad]

So we have moved pretty solidly from a husband & wife relationship into a relationship that is on the line somewhere closer to adult & petulant teenager.

Her current contribution to the family is as before and after school care for my son. She spent the majority of the past several days and the weekend either up in the bedroom that she has claimed or out of the house. She even missed attending my son's pinewood derby on Saturday as she didn't want to be social.

I would normal be complaining about this, however life has been moving much more smoothly this way. She isolates herself in a room, and then has a minor fit that no one wants to be around her. We don't engage with her if it can be avoided and life moves on.

I feel as if she will be moving out soon, especially if she manages to land a job. I can only hope that for my son's sake she stabilizes a bit so that he can have a schedule with her. If not I will give him the support he needs and help him understand what is going on the best that I can.

I have also started to get down on paper my draft for a separation agreement to get the process of division of assets and initial custody sorted out. I don't anticipate that she will sign it willingly, but it will help to give a starting point and something to give my lawyer as what my goals are.

[RolandOfEld]

Hello, I am locking this thread because it has reached its length limit. The post originator is welcomed to open a continuation thread on this topic.  Have a great day.