I will not go back unless she comes to me

[Depression = 72% of members]

Lighthouse9,

I think I would open to reconcile at any point no matter what happened but it would already take a long time to sort out and continually grows out of reach. I wouldn't say I'm waiting for it by any means. My main desire regarding the situation is learning to manage my interactions with her and turn them positive but it's hard since I've already laid down the ultimate boundary that I will not associate or communicate with her unless she wants to get help. I wish I never moved out when she kicked me out but I know I had to leave.

She's never expressed her own interests in her own therapy. I pleaded for her to get a mental health plan and seek councilling. I had to book the doctors appointment and the councillor. She didn't even know why she was going. After her first 30 Min session she come back saying the councillor suggested we don't continue our relationship. When I requested she see someone else it was my fault for choosing this one. She went to two more sessions but all she told me was once because she was feeling guilty and the other because she was struggling with the kids on the one night a week she actually has them by herself.

I've seen a solicitor but they weren't much help. I don't really know what else to do in that regard just yet. The tools on this site are a good read and I can see small results when I try to implement them but I feel like a one trick pony because then I don't know how else to communicate one one thing might work. Which is exhausting in itself.

Sounds like you're in a rough spot but have ultimately made up your mind one way or another. I hope the future looks bright for you once the dust settles and I believe it will be!

[sladezy]

Lighthouse9,

I think I would open to reconcile at any point no matter what happened but it would already take a long time to sort out and continually grows out of reach. I wouldn't say I'm waiting for it by any means. My main desire regarding the situation is learning to manage my interactions with her and turn them positive but it's hard since I've already laid down the ultimate boundary that I will not associate or communicate with her unless she wants to get help. I wish I never moved out when she kicked me out but I know I had to leave.

She's never expressed her own interests in her own therapy. I pleaded for her to get a mental health plan and seek councilling. I had to book the doctors appointment and the councillor. She didn't even know why she was going. After her first 30 Min session she come back saying the councillor suggested we don't continue our relationship. When I requested she see someone else it was my fault for choosing this one. She went to two more sessions but all she told me was once because she was feeling guilty and the other because she was struggling with the kids on the one night a week she actually has them by herself.

I've seen a solicitor but they weren't much help. I don't really know what else to do in that regard just yet. The tools on this site are a good read and I can see small results when I try to implement them but I feel like a one trick pony because then I don't know how else to communicate one one thing might work. Which is exhausting in itself.

Sounds like you're in a rough spot but have ultimately made up your mind one way or another. I hope the future looks bright for you once the dust settles and I believe it will be!

[RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING]

RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members are welcomed to express frustration but must seek constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[sladezy]

And confirmed she's ___ing atleast one other dude.

[JoeBPD81]

I'm sorry to hear how things are. It sounds really exhausting and difficult to deal with all this.

For what I understand she is in denial of having issues, right? You are at the end of your rope, and you have a ton of responsibility, not only with your life and the kids but with dealing with her influence and actions. I hope things settle down a bit.

I wish I had useful tips, I can only tell you to forgive yourself. You are doing more than humanly posible, so you are bound to not get 100% results, it's just normal. Celebrate every little success and move on from things that can't be. There will always be things that you can't control, in your life, and sadly, in your kids' life too. And we have to live with that. We have to focus in what we do control, and not spend a lot of time thinking about what we can't.

Easier said than done. I know, but I wish you the best of luck.

[sladezy]

I've spent today mostly feeling physically ill and wanting to throw up at the thought of her sleeping with one or more other person and potentially while my kids are in the house on her nights. I'm not so much angry or surprised as I am shocked by the reality of it. I don't know if I can even... .I don't even know. It's a kick in the guts while I'm being kicked in the guts. My fears for what our children will be exposed to are sky rocketing and there is not a damn thing I can do about it. I feel like a fool. How could something that seemed so right to me be so wrong. My entire perception of human interaction has been compromised.

[JoeBPD81]

I feel for you. It is a maddening image, you need to distract yourself from it. And it gets better with time.

I was already living appart when I accidentally read a text from my ex's new lover. It was very graphic, and it made me sick too. Even as I didn't want to go back to my ex, the image was sickening. And it felt like a huge betrayal that she had "moved on" so quickly. The truth is that I was also having sex with a new woman, but it didn't feel like a betrayal or moving on on my part, I still spent whole days crying about my ex, and missing her a lot. We are complicated, we compartmentalize for ourselves, but we feel the other person as a whole.

What I say is: even as I was doing the same, it felt awful to know she was doing it. It took me months to forget the sentence I read, I honestly don't remember it now, but I thought It would haunt me forever. I don't wanna try to remember either.

When I started seeing other people, for a very short time, I thought I could still mend things with my ex. My feelings for my ex were so complicated, and getting affection with another person for some hours was simple. It was a way to stop thinking and suffering for an hour or two. In my head I was another person.

I know nothing I say will make it OK. But try your best to understand that that is not about you. She's not the same person that was with you. 

I'm very sorry you are going through this.

[sladezy]

Hi Joe,

So are you back with your partner after all of that?  Or are you still recovering?  How dis you get through it all at the time?.

[JoeBPD81]

I'm still with the person I started dating after leaving my home.

Time healed the wounds although left some scars. The thing that helped most was to stop wondering why, stop blaming myself or my ex, and accepting it was both and nobody's fault at the same time.

I went to therapy, and the T told me I could still love my ex for a long time, that it was OK. But at the same time I could accept we shouldn't live together anymore.

My current RS is damaged due to starting too soon. But that's another story.

[sladezy]

I've not heard from her now in 2 days since she blew up at me for going to her house to get the last of my things uninvited while she was not home. Usually when she is angry with me she will keep texting until I respond, so this new behaviour is extremely unsettling to me but also good in a way I guess.

I've just received high conflict couples in the mail and I'm hoping to learn more about how to stop making things work and how to communicate better.

I find my mind seeing her sexually with another partner even when I'm not directly thinking about it over the last few days. I know she has the right to do whatever she wants since we aren't together and that it probably means very little to her but it's still a painful reality. I still somehow feel betrayed or cheated on. I think this would be my final straw to moving on more easily but I think deep down in my heart I would always want to patch things up with her. This may change with time I'm sure. I can see all the reasons not to invest myself with her but it doesn't change my devotion and desire to have not only her but my family reunited.

[JoeBPD81]

That's the book I have on my night-stand. I read only half. I love Fruzzetti, if you can check his videos on youtube. But the book made me feel I had a too long or impossible way to go. I think there is a time for each book.

You are going to need time to move on from knowing that. You need a combination of allowing yourself to feel bad, and trying not to feel bad, but not being angry at yourself if you don't succeed.

As I watched the dynamic of my divorce, there were times when I could have tried to get back together, and there were times when it was impossible. There wasn't a breaking point, as in: before it was possible, and now it's not. The moments came and go.

If you want her back, you need to be strong, to be able to use that moment when it arrives. If you are down, and feeling betrayed, and resentful... .Chances are you'll let that moment go, or not even see it, or you would present yourself in a light that might push her away.

While that moment doesn't arrive, you can only work on yourself. The best way you can, mate. I know you are broken, and you're not going to be Superman in a week, but try to colect some of the pieces, so you don't feel as broken, and you gather some strength to pick up the next piece.

Things are tough, and unfair. What small thing can you change for the better? What can you give as a present to yourself?

[sladezy]

I will be seeing my ex today when she drops the kids off, my main goal today is going to be stop making things worse. Not sure what to expect out of our meeting today since I haven't heard from her since our last fight 4 days ago which I didn't engage in over text. Usually she keeps messaging me until I reply but this time she didn't.

Do you guys think it's ever too late to try to reverse a break up? Is it going to be a long process to regain trust if I have spent a few months being invalidating and pushing to stay together?

[JoeBPD81]

Personaly I don't think it's too late.

Look, my GF was abused, and the ex-h is a monster, but having kids in common she's talked about going back to him with some arangement. There's always a chance.

But yes, all the process about regaining trust are slow. And they can't be rushed/pushed. Now you have to regain trust in her too, so when the time is right, you can work together towards that.

You are making progress and you have increased your chances to not make things worse. But I would forgive myself if I slipped into old habits, as I know you are derranged, and emotionally exhausted.

Best of luck on that meeting. Tell us how it goes.

[lighthouse9]

I never think it's too late either -and cautiously, very cautiously dream about this. But, my daydreaming about it also includes a list of my boundaries. Also, even more importantly - how am I going to enforce those boundaries if they are crossed?

The biggest thing for me is not only seeing her get into the right kind of counseling, but being included in that process at some point. I won't take her word for it that everything is all better now. Mind you, she hasn't asked me to come back and shows no signs of reconciliation at this point. She's also made it clear that she doesn't want me to be part of her counseling (if she is really getting it, she's already lied about it once). So, my biggest condition for reconciliation, at the moment, isn't even on the table.

So what's that mean in the mean time? Time to do my work.

We don't have kids, so I'm in a different place. But, it also means that we have less reason to try to work this out and once I move next week, we really have no reason to ever see each other physically again unless one of us speaks up and we both agree to let it happen.

Is it worth it to you to learn some of the tools here and cautiously build that trust back? Only you can answer that.

For me, these tools make me a better communicator in general, so I can at least learn them and not feel like I'm just trying to save a marriage that she's making no effort to save. I have other high conflict people in my life that I'd like to have good relationships with, so these tools are good for me to learn regardless.

The work on myself - to deal with some of the codependency and some of my own mental health challenges, well again, those are things I need to do for myself. Will they make me a more suitable partner for her? Yes, if she gets healthy. And, that's not just saying "I will only come back if she gets healthy." It's also saying that a healthy me and a version of her that's still in denial will not work together. Why? Because I'm not as easy to control. In fact, I can look back on some of our downfall and see how much healthier I was becoming in that time - and how inconvenient that might have been for her. It's harder to project on a healthier person.

Maybe think of it like this - If I'm saving money to buy a house with someone, and that person bails, then I still have money saved and can do something else with that money. My expectations might be shattered and I'll have to grieve that, but at least I have an investment that still has value once I get through the grief.

Wishing you all the best man - and don't get down on yourself for the ruminating thoughts of the affair. I still see them and still fill with rage when I do. When I first found out, I could barely eat and was nauseous 24/7.

The thing that helped me put it in perspective was this: this chump was no different than her razorblade or those drinks she shouldn't have had. He was a coping mechanism for something in her that I didn't create and I couldn't fix. She used to cut to deal with her intense emotions. Now she drinks or limits her food or exercises excessively. More recently, she's used sex. What do these things do? Make her feel like she's in control. Help her relieve the pressure. The sex? It helps her feel validated and wanted.

Does it suck being the person who can't validated her or make her feel wanted for some reason? Absolutely. But when painted black, there's so little I can do about that except focus on myself and create my own validation to escape the projection and abuse.

[sladezy]

The drop of went fine guys, I just looked happy to see the girls and excited for the plans I have with them. She's looked at me very weird as I approached but we just discussed the kids alittle. I requested she bring back my TV remote, my bank card and the blue book for our 1 year old. I got my bank card and an engagement party invitation addressed to both of us for one of my friends. I think I picked up that she lied to me twice but I didn't pick it up at the time only afterwards.

I understand that this kind of interaction is best for the kids and best to not cause continued conflict. But I don't understand how it will increase our chances of reconciliation or build trust. I only see her for 5 minutes a week now. I guess I have a chance to improve things but contacting her either via text or phone briefly through the week etc. Maybe try to invite her on a family outting after a few weeks of no conflict?  Tell her how much fun the kids and I have been having and how we would love for her to join us? Or do you think simply being happy and easy going with her might and that I have no real interest in seeing or doing things with her would have more of an effect? 

I know learning the right communication techniques is only going to better myself in the long run regardless of what happens next. I feel like this being civil co-parenting is what she keeps pushing for. So while I defuse the conflict and get on with it I fear that I may be playing into the drama she wants to create? She may turn around n say it works better this way :s

Joe, have you see evidence of the abuse from your GFs ex husband being a monster? I ask this because I wonder if that's just been fabricated to make him look like a bad person / perhaps he has been painted black?  I think that my partner has done this with me to other people to validate what she is thinking about me.

[sladezy]

I am struggling more so today with my anxiety, I feel as if I am jumping out of my skin and can't think clearly. My own desire for progress is distorting my patience. Our youngest daughter seems to have developed a very strong attachment to me and crys whenever I leave the room. This also makes me feel like ___ that I can't be with her every day.

[Radcliff]

I am struggling more so today with my anxiety, I feel as if I am jumping out of my skin and can't think clearly. My own desire for progress is distorting my patience. Our youngest daughter seems to have developed a very strong attachment to me and crys whenever I leave the room. This also makes me feel like ___ that I can't be with her every day.

sladezy, how are you doing today?

When our kids are upset, it is very tough to deal with.  I'm sorry for not being caught up on your thread, but what intervals are you exchanging the kids on?  What percentage of time do you have her?

W.r.t. your children's mom, neutral to slightly warm interactions are very powerful and the best thing you can do.  Nothing negative, and nothing super warm, gushing, or pursuing.  Sending pictures of the kids having fun could go either way.  She might feel overly excluded, or might appreciate it.  You could try one, and ask her if it was OK.  If she receives it well, it could be good.  Sure, invite her to go with you and the kids somewhere, but do it in a just slightly warm way.  If she feels like you really want it, or it's a power thing, she'll likely say no.  You want to project the idea that if she doesn't go, you're totally OK with that, but if she goes, it's a nice bonus.  Perhaps say that the kids would enjoy it.  At the exchange when you hand the kids back, don't seem to be seeking any warmth from her but give details of the kids time with you in a slightly warm tone.  You are calm, confident, and attractive.  You are not the pursuer.

WW

[sladezy]

sladezy, how are you doing today?

When our kids are upset, it is very tough to deal with.  I'm sorry for not being caught up on your thread, but what intervals are you exchanging the kids on?  What percentage of time do you have her?

W.r.t. your children's mom, neutral to slightly warm interactions are very powerful and the best thing you can do.  Nothing negative, and nothing super warm, gushing, or pursuing.  Sending pictures of the kids having fun could go either way.  She might feel overly excluded, or might appreciate it.  You could try one, and ask her if it was OK.  If she receives it well, it could be good.  Sure, invite her to go with you and the kids somewhere, but do it in a just slightly warm way.  If she feels like you really want it, or it's a power thing, she'll likely say no.  You want to project the idea that if she doesn't go, you're totally OK with that, but if she goes, it's a nice bonus.  Perhaps say that the kids would enjoy it.  At the exchange when you hand the kids back, don't seem to be seeking any warmth from her but give details of the kids time with you in a slightly warm tone.  You are calm, confident, and attractive.  You are not the pursuer.

WW

Hey WW that's all good.

At the moment I have the kids 4 nights a week, Friday afternoon until Tuesday morning when I drop them to daycare and she picks them up. So I only see my ex when she drops them off here on Friday afternoons and in past weeks I'd even avoided that by having somebody else here to recieve the kids. I did have the kids 5 nights a week but she whinged until I gave her an extra day. As soon as she got the extra day she filed for child support. She has them Wednesday Thursday Friday. Wednesday the kids are in daycare, Thursday she drops them at her mums n Fridays she goes with them to her Nan's house. Not really fair on the kids I don't think they are getting given a nap on Thursdays or Fridays. 

Today's been ok. I'm still extremely anxious but I've been to the physio which has relieved some chronic pain I've been carrying. I was really struggling for people to talk to yesterday and the day before.

If I ask her to join us or anything of the sort she's likely to get defensive and assume I'm trying to get back together with her. Which is her road block, she doesn't want to hear or see anything that might even make her consider changing her mind. That's what I've been up against for the last 3 months. Though that might be a chance for me to validate her feelings for a change.

[JoeBPD81]

I'm sorry I've not been here, mate.

I'm on edge myself with her suicide ideation, and talks about leaving me alone, and not being a couple anymore (while we live together and the kids call me dad). I don't know where I stand, and coming here makes the wounds more present. Also, I feel I can't manage my own family situation, so I shouldn't be advicing other people.

Joe, have you see evidence of the abuse from your GFs ex husband being a monster? I ask this because I wonder if that's just been fabricated to make him look like a bad person / perhaps he has been painted black?  I think that my partner has done this with me to other people to validate what she is thinking about me.

I doubt everything, sadly, I don't know how much a grasp on reality she has. She seems very insightful in general, and then there are blind spots where she can't conceive an idea, a fact, or a memory. That makes me asume she is undertanding one thing, until I see the blind spot, and realize she was understanding something else completely.

I've seen evidence enough. From her ex, her mother, sister, father and grandmother. Enough to make what she says believable. I've seen him, I took the kids to his door, I've listen to his conversations on the phone (with permision), I've talked to the lawyer and saw the evidence. I've seen that in 4 years he hasn't called the kids more than 5-6 times in total, and he's seen them once a year because we delivered them to him. In all of the visits he returned them prematurely, and in anger, calling names to the kids in front of the whole neighborhood. Most of the time they spent with him, he was in a bar, getting drunk. I've seen that she talks the best that she can about him in front of the kids. Having in mind that he has the right to see them, and wanting those visits to be as peaceful as possible.

I know some of what she tells me can be misinterpretations. But there are also facts. And he sounds like a total narcisist, and capable of being very agressive. After a Physh evaluation of him and my GF, the court granted full custody to my GF.

She's uncovering old wounds in therapy, and piling on months of unemployment and depression. She is not the person I knew, she's completely broken. I get it that having "a guy" rescuing her is not a solution she can accept. She wants to be the person that can maintain her own kids. And that others (including me) don't have the power to betray her.

She talks great about me to the kids and other people. Her family thinks I'm a saint. The kids' teachers tell me that I'm a great positive influence in their lives. And that's pretty much the extent of our social circle.

I believe her BPD is mild, but her situation, being cornered, and her past, full of trauma, has her in a imposibly high anxiety level. We both believe she's Asperger's, and that makes it very difficult to get regulated by others. Also, she is anorexic, and she's been years under-nurturing her brain. And that must affect her thinking abilities.

Well that's TMI about my gf. I wish I had a great insight about your situation. Thanks a lot, Wentworth. He's a heavy weight and much wiser than I am.

Hang in there, mate. Keep it up, give the kids and yourself your best.

[sladezy]

Joe,

You've helped me greatly since I found this site so don't under-estimate your ability to have a positive effect on people through generosity and just taking the time out to respond. I understand things are shakey in your own situation and you can offer much right now and that's ok, you need to look after yourself first. I really hope things start to settle or progress for you soon. Take it easy and talk soon. Remember we are all here when and if you need us.

[lighthouse9]

Hey Sladezy and Joe - I've been MIA on here but just catching up, and will write more once I have a chance.

Just wanted to say that I'm thinking about both of you and echo something WW said:

"You are calm, confident, and attractive."

Ok - maybe you aren't feeling this way in this exact moment, but when is the last time you felt like any of those things NOT around your wife/gf?  What was it about those situations or about what you brought to those situations that made you feel that way?

This is the bulk of the work I've been doing outside therapy in a coaching program that caters to guys/masculine folks in the process of losing a relationship. It hasn't been easy, but it's been helpful and some nuggets of wisdom sink in from time to time.

And - another thing I'm learning - if I don't feel like those things, could it be that I need to detach a little and find my center before "entering the arena" per se? I know I'm annoying with the weekly self-care thread, but I think of my self-care as a way to heal my wounds, train my body and mind, and get ready for the next time I might be tested. In time, I may not need these "spurts" of self-care and they hopefully just become healthy habits. But for now, think of what the gladiator does when not fighting.

I'm so sorry to hear about the anxiety Sladezy - and I absolutely get the impatience. My logical mind lit up when I started to realize that we were dealing with BPD (and possibly her being bipolar) because I thought "Oh, ok, I can handle this - we just need to do x, y, z and we'll be ok." Easy enough for me to say - but not easy to convince to someone that has spent their whole life thinking they are threatened and that they only have their maladaptive instincts and behavior to keep them safe.

[sladezy]

Thanks lighthouse I've been reading you're post so I know you've been preoccupied appreciate the kind words and wishing you the strength to get through the transition you're taking.

Wentworth, not sure if you'll read this but I decided to send her some photos of the fun I had with the kids on the weekend, explained alittle about what we got up to and how I thought one of the photos was really cute. She responded saying thankyou and that she really appreciated it. I offered to said more if she would like and she said yes but she usually just puts them on Facebook (I have her blocked on Facebook atm I'm not sure if she realises). I just messaged through some more photos and mentioned that we had done other fun stuff I just had not been able to take photos. She responded "understandable"  so maybe she either didn't really want to chat or felt shame by my statement of not being able to take photos. Maybe she was just busy with the kids too. I just left her with that for now. I wanted to tell her abit more about the bond I'm building with the kids and stuff like that n offer her to join us but I thought I'd wait and keep each conversation to one topic n slowly introduce the next one by one. I mean hopefully she will be able to see the bond n stuff in the photos and wished she was there anyway but I have no idea.

I asked her once on the phone recently if she found it hard while the kids weren't with her because I certainly did. She wasn't able to answer me fumbling around it and finally saying well I know the kids are loved when they are not with me.

[JoeBPD81]

I'm glad she responded well to the pics. In my opinion, when there are good vibrations, let them sink a bit, wait until you push it further. Give her the chance to maybe take the next step herself. I mean enjoy the good for half a day, or a day.

[Radcliff]

Sladezy,

Great news about the pics!  I'm so glad she received them well!  As JoeBPD81 said, I'd go easy.  Do the photos at whatever intensity she responded to initially, and just let time do the work, don't ramp it up.  And do it genuinely -- it's a nice thing to do, regardless of whether it makes her get back together with you.  Somehow I think people have a sixth sense for genuineness or whether we want something.  If you get your head into thinking that you're just genuinely doing it to be nice, then you're not expecting something back, and you won't get frustrated if you get nothing back.  Over time, perhaps you'll pick up one or two more of these ways to connect in a non-pursuing way with her.

lighthouse9, I'd love to have a beer with you and hear more about that program!

WW

[sladezy]

Thanks Wentworth, I was doing this briefly in the beginning when I had them 5 days a week n she responded by thanking me than too. Unfortunately she never returned the favour and things got worse between us n it stopped. As you seen from my post there is abit of a game plan to me doing it, maybe not a game plan but an end goal. Not pursuing but trying to guide or draw her back in as her own doing notby applying pressure. Which makes it really hard when I know she likes being courted.

I'm getting more ok with how things are at the moment every day in terms off "this is my life now" but I really feel like my life is on hold, so I guess that means I'm just still waiting. I kinda feel like she won't come back now because she will think doing so is admitting that I was right. I'd really love to hear / read some stories from people who have navigated this wild sea and ultimately went through hell and got the partner back. I know every situation is different and I don't want to give myself false hope but knowing it's possible and different ways that looked like for different people would maybe be inspiring. I'm starting the get headaches daily and I not sure if this is related to my mental health or not. I've had that big ball of nervous energy in my stomach for so long now.

I fear it really isn't going to get between us and our family will not be as I wish it were. All be in stranger things have happened. I feel as if this time she has a friend or two in her ear pushing the validation and stopping any kind of remission or regret she might have towards reuniting. As she has mentioned that getting back with me would be letting her friends down. I know she has considered it and she's even shown signs of it being good again at times (before I moved out of the house) but obviously other people's thoughts and opinions were holding her back.

[sladezy]

I really feel like I need more support than I am getting in life in general. Maybe I'm rushing things in my mind, this is not uncommon for me. It's really hard to just be "ok" with where I am at right now both physically and mentally but I really feel like I can't change that overnight either. She's coming to drop the kids off in an hour so I'll put on my happy face and play the game again followed by the anxiety and fretting about what or who she will be doing later that night or over the weekend. I've been thinking about writing her a letter validating her feelings and setting some facts using SET. what do you guys think about that? Is it even worth I it?  I even though of writing it but not sending it. I know this girl is the one I want to spend the rest of my life with. I know she is self sabotaging herself, acting against hers and the kids best interests. Lacking logic and reasoning but there is not a thing I can do about it. My backs against the wall. I don't believe her when she has told me she doesn't love me we are just too good together when she's not busy running from me. I don't want to control this person but I who love to be able to guide her back to me at her own pace with no further damage being done.

[Radcliff]

sladezy,

I just read through your thread again to see what I could pick up that might be good to cover.  Sorry if I'm rehashing old ground... .

I wrote her a message spelling out why I don't want to communicate and how I intend for it to be a permanent thing until such times as she takes responsibly for herself and seeks help. I didn't expect her to reply but instead I was told she doesn't understand and then got attacked for other unrelated things.

It's been a while since you said this.  With a little more experience, do you see why this might not have been an effective strategy?

my main goal today is going to be stop making things worse.

It's also been a while since you've said this.  How's your progress been on this?

I know learning the right communication techniques is only going to better myself in the long run regardless of what happens next. I feel like this being civil co-parenting is what she keeps pushing for. So while I defuse the conflict and get on with it I fear that I may be playing into the drama she wants to create? She may turn around n say it works better this way :s

Being civil is always best.  The only two alternatives I can see are behaving poorly, or somehow behaving negatively in a way that makes her think that being with you would make her happier than coparenting with you.  I feel silly even typing that!  So... .back to being civil.  It shows you're a good partner.  It's your best option.

I fear it really isn't going to get between us and our family will not be as I wish it were.  

I'm really sorry about this.  I'm facing some of the same fears myself.  It is difficult, to say the least.

I feel as if this time she has a friend or two in her ear pushing the validation and stopping any kind of remission or regret she might have towards reuniting. As she has mentioned that getting back with me would be letting her friends down. I know she has considered it and she's even shown signs of it being good again at times (before I moved out of the house) but obviously other people's thoughts and opinions were holding her back.

I can understand how frustrating this must be!  She gets to pick who she listens to.  Work on your own behaviors and play the long game.  I know you already know this

How's your anxiety doing?  Are you exercising?

Sorry to hear that your support needs to be better.  Can you describe your current sources of support?

On the letter, I'd go for writing but not sending for the moment.  If you'd like, write it, sit on it for a day, and share it with us.

WW

[sladezy]

Hey Wentworth thanks for the wordy response I'll try to answer all.

1. Yeah I definitely see this as a very poor first attempt at me trying to enforce a boundary. It was fairly reflective of where I was at and what I really needed at the time although very poorly structured to try to gain some relief. It failed poorly and things stayed in high tension between us.

2. Today is only the second time I'd seen her since I started doing this. There was no conflict or even any attacks. She seemed low and looked like she hadn't been eating well at all. A few exchanges were made between us but not alot. I guess if anything it was probably a neutral encounter leaning towards poor. The only other contact made was when I sent the photos which you already know about.

3. Acting negative so being with me is better than Co parenting?  Do go on  

4. Sorry you are facing the same things. The pain is shocking. I wouldn't wish this on my worst enemy.
 
5. My anxiety is still very high, I'm walking when I can but it's been raining the last few days. I have some good support don't get me wrong I just feel like it isn't right / frequent enough / working like it has in the past. I'm seeing a psychologist, using this forum, using other mental health support services here in Australia such as helplines, using meditation apps, a chat support app with an online councillor, some friends who aren't sick of hearing me go around and around and around.

[JoeBPD81]

Hang in there!

It's hard to believe in being civil, as we see them behaving poorly, and it works for them, they have us chasing them. But Autenticity is important, they behave like that because they are like that, we can't fake being a person that we are not. That usually leads to disaster.

[Radcliff]

sladezy,

Thanks for all the answers, that helps confirm what I was thinking -- in just this one thread you've come a huge distance! Your first approach was controlling, and you have quickly moved away from that.  Your adaptation has been rather fast, so you deserve congratulations on that 

Good for you as well to be sensitive to pick up on her mood and demeanor when you saw her.  You said "neutral to poor" for the interaction.  But how was your demeanor?  Were you able to get a little warmth in?  No worries if not -- those interactions can be fleeting and awkward.  Perhaps give us more detail about how things happened and what was said.

Time may be on your side here.  pwBPD have strong shame responses, so if she perceives that you are upset, or perceives rejection from you, she may withdraw.  If each time she interacts with you, you are just slightly nicer than she expects, over time she might start to feel safe with the idea of getting closer to you.

WW

[sladezy]

sladezy,

Thanks for all the answers, that helps confirm what I was thinking -- in just this one thread you've come a huge distance! Your first approach was controlling, and you have quickly moved away from that.  Your adaptation has been rather fast, so you deserve congratulations on that 

Good for you as well to be sensitive to pick up on her mood and demeanor when you saw her.  You said "neutral to poor" for the interaction.  But how was your demeanor?  Were you able to get a little warmth in?  No worries if not -- those interactions can be fleeting and awkward.  Perhaps give us more detail about how things happened and what was said.

Time may be on your side here.  pwBPD have strong shame responses, so if she perceives that you are upset, or perceives rejection from you, she may withdraw.  If each time she interacts with you, you are just slightly nicer than she expects, over time she might start to feel safe with the idea of getting closer to you.

WW

Wentworth,

Hard for me to remember, I know I was tired from a big week at work and not really psyched up for the arrival. If anything I'd say I probably seemed polite but disinterested at the same time. Nothing was really said so much she hadn't me the bags n some wet sheets she had washed but not had time to dry, explained that she didn't get the shoes I requested because I couldn't find them. I told her how there was some wet clothes in the bag she missed last week that had been sitting there in piss for a week.  That was pretty much it really. I kept trying to draw my attention onto the kids instead asking how they were going and what should we do this weekend etc. She gave me a wave and then the kids a wave and left.

Before the meeting she texted me to try to get me to pick up the kids instead of her dropping them to me cause she was going to be late, she only ended up being 15 minutes late in the end. I just told her dropping them over later will be fine. She's tried a number of times to get me to pick up the kids instead. Not really sure why.    

What do you mean by time may be on my side? I don't understand it. I'm really starting to struggle with the kids on my own. Don't know how long I can keep it up for. They have very much been a driving force that's keeping me going but I'm not sleeping enough as it is.

[Radcliff]

Hard for me to remember, I know I was tired from a big week at work and not really psyched up for the arrival. If anything I'd say I probably seemed polite but disinterested at the same time. Nothing was really said so much she hadn't me the bags n some wet sheets she had washed but not had time to dry, explained that she didn't get the shoes I requested because I couldn't find them.

I've been there.  Sometimes I've got absolutely zero energy with all the stress, and it seems impossible to "clean up" and act bright and shiny for my daughter or others.  But I'm going off of your stated desire to win her back.  If that's what you want, then you need to look at that exchange as a 60-second date.  That means make the time to get home early enough to recharge, do something that relaxes you, dress in a way that you think she'll find attractive, the whole deal.

I told her how there was some wet clothes in the bag she missed last week that had been sitting there in piss for a week.

On a date, you don't talk about piss   Nothing that might make any unhappy feelings cloud your date's impression of you.  I'm not clear on the wet clothes details exactly, but if they were soiled at your place, give them to her clean, or say you're cleaning them and will drop them by her place later.  If she gave them to you soiled, clean them and don't even mention it.  You are the magic stud they put in TV commercials aimed at women your wife's age.

I kept trying to draw my attention onto the kids instead asking how they were going and what should we do this weekend etc. She gave me a wave and then the kids a wave and left.

That's totally natural to focus on the kids.  But next time see if you can give them a quick warm welcome, then carve out some time to make eye contact with your wife, smile, and make the interaction about the two of you, if only for a brief moment.  Basically, you are flirting.  You are Magic Guy, kind to children and animals while at the same time charming and attractive to any woman in your presence

What do you mean by time may be on my side? I don't understand it.

Like with money.  If you make slightly more than you spend, eventually you'll have a lot of money.  If you spend slightly more than you make, eventually you'll be broke.  Think about small deposits in the relationship bank with her over time.  Success is not guaranteed, but slow and steady often wins the race.

I'm really starting to struggle with the kids on my own. Don't know how long I can keep it up for. They have very much been a driving force that's keeping me going but I'm not sleeping enough as it is.

Kids sure are a lot of work.  What are the ages and genders of your kids?  Sounds like they are small.  Sorry, remind us how long you've been solo parenting for part of the week?  Are you fully "trained" on all the kid care mechanics, or still coming up to speed?  Even if you've got the details down, it's still exhausting.  There's nothing quite like brushing a todder's teeth with one hand while holding a screaming baby in the other!  Tell us a little more about the parenting challenges, maybe we can help.

WW