My relationship is less toxic now, but it still feels superficial and empty

[Ollie5]

I would appreciate some feedback from some who have been in longer term relationships with a pwBPD.  I am struggling to get a sense of what depth of a relationship I can hope for - I’m still very uncertain if it is worth continuing on.  I have written a coupe of times before, but just to recap I have been married for 29 years and virtually all of those years my pwBPD has come across as highly angry (sarcastic, glares, brief responses, eye rolling) and would get highly reactive the moment I tried to discuss any real issue requiring a decision.  We ended up living virtually parallel lives for years and I could tell I was getting increasingly numb and detached and feeling profoundly lonely.  Last year I couldn’t take it any more and finally moved out, just over a year ago.  About 7 months ago we agreed to try to see if we could improve and rebuild the relationship.  We have 5 kids together and have a strong commitment to family, she was seeing an individual counsellor (for the first time) and seemed to be making some improvements, so I agreed.  Since then we have both been seeing individual counsellors and about a month ago started seeing an EFT couples counsellor together.  We still live separate but text each other often and date of weekends.
Between the work we have done there and efforts to apply a number of the recommendations from this and other sites, things have settled down considerably.  She is making an effort and isn’t so angry and negative all the time and she tries not to escalate and get so reactive so rapidly (sometimes successfully, sometimes not).  
So my problem now and what I really need your help with is knowing what potential this relationship has for true emotional intimicy.  Although it is less toxic now, it still feels very superficial and empty.  I try to ask her regularly about what she is feeling about various things, I validate, I share my thoughts and feelings, I ask a lot of open ended questions, I try to show interest in her interests, etc.  But I still feel like I have to initiate most of the conversations, I tend to get quite brief and superficial answers, I feel like I am often just straining so hard to carry on the conversation and especially to get it to a deeper level. I am someone who truly wants and craves a deep personal connection and relationship with the person who is supposed to be my life partner.  However, I find myself so often just feeling intensely lonely and often bored in the relationship.  I know that people with BPD struggle with emotional intimicy often.  I’m wondering if others can relate to what I am talking about?  Are there others out there who have been here and feel that they have eventually achieved a deep personal intimate relationship with their pwBPD and if so how?  To be honest I’m not looking for a lot of encouragement to carry on as much as honest and realistic feedback.  I really can’t see myself carrying on for years more in a relationship that feels so profoundly empty... .

[RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING]

RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members are welcomed to express frustration but must seek constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[juju2]

Hi,
You are in the right place.

am separated since march 4, 2017 fm dxBPD bf, we became toxic, was hoping we could heal, work on ourselves, and now, we are in couples counseling, seeing what is possible.

For our 10 years, I discounted the BPD diagnosis.
I didnt get it was a serious mental illness.  My bf C. is high functioning, you would not know he has this.  Long story short, after the separation, I found this site, and am now learning.  We found a T. who knows about BPD, she has us starting over.
We are meeting once a wk at a coffee shop, lite conversation, and finding out what connection we have.  Its a new chance.

My part of our failed past r/s is a.  I was trying to get my needs met by him.  All my needs.  I had become enmeshed.  b.  I blamed him for all our problems.and my problems.
c.  I did not do any self care.

There is more, but those are the top 3.

The thing I found was, whenever I am upset and bothered by C., it is my part to deal with myself.
If he had diabetes, heart dz, etc, I would not be getting upset.  I am learning the tools here.  I hope it isnt too late!

Anything you want for your r/s is possible.  Take it slow, look at my part, pray, learn, stay on this site.

Blessings, j

[JoeBPD81]

With only 4 years in this RS, I can relate to the lonelyness, and emptyness feeling. I wonder if I can go on with so little affection from the central figure in my life. I know that many times I've thought things can only go down, and they went up again.

She herself talks about it, and feels that she won't even be able to give me a level of support that I deserve. She thinks now she won't have sex ever again. So I understand how important that is, we have to decide if this is even life.

I'm not sure if I want to know about the real feedback you ask for. We are all different, and pwBPD are also different from one another. So what she is capable of doing, and how much you will need to make it worth it to try, are two personal variables.

I've found that there are some physical contact that it is intimate, but not threatening. So it opens a way to closeness. I brush her hair, I massage her head, or legs and feet (while we watch a movie, for example). Being extra careful not to touch in a sensual way. She feels good, but I also feel good doing it. And it helps her behaving in a closer manner.

Sometimes I feel very frustrated when I think that I should have someone who (at least) would touch ME like that. And that I feel like a win when I get a hug, or she takes my hand.

Lately, she has told me a couple of times that she wants to grab me and kiss me, but she feels it would be harmful to me, as she can never tell when she will give me that again. So she doesn't want to play with me. I can't tell if it's better to know this or not. It gives me some hope.

I hope you get the answers you need. I don't have them, but I wanted to stop by to tell you that I understand how painful that emptyness feels.

[pearlsw]

Hi all!

Ollie5,

I hear ya! I really feel as if my partner and I had/were talking more we might have had a chance to save/repair things. But it has not been easy. I am so afraid to open emotional topics with lately or offer anything that sounds like a critique. It's hard. He tends to actually be pretty happy with me until he is NOT. His most prominent symptom is extreme black and white thinking... .so that does not lend itself to problem solving very well. It's sad. Tragic really, but... .

In terms of more emotional intimacy what would you envision? What would be enough? More conversations? Or more sex? Or... .what exactly do you have in mind?

Also, thanks juju2 for your really kind comments here! Hope to see more posts/replies from you! And Joe, always sweet to hear from you too! You make a great point about how different this can be for all of us!

warmly, pearl.

[Ollie5]

Thanks juju2 - Interesting to hear that you are at a similar stage of trying to meet casually and seeing if you can rebuild the foundations of your relationhip again.  I appreciate your thoughts on boundaries, accountability and self care.  Certainly you are right that no relationship can meet all of our needs.

Thanks JoeBPD81 - I definately agree that no two relationships are the same. I also appreciate your validation of my pain and emptiness - it’s always a little easier to bear the burden when one don’t feel quite so alone in it.

Thanks pearlsw - Oh, how I know the b/w thinking... .such a serious impediment to collaborative problem solving.  I really appreciate your question about what I mean by emotional intimicy. 
For me this is about feeling truly emotionally close and connected to another person, to my life partner.  Feeling deeply understood.  And seeing deeply into the soul of my spouse. It’s sharing some common interests and respectfully exploring issues that we may be divergent on. It’s having conversations that enlighten and energize me and her.  It’s feeling really at ease with each other and about having long and effortless conversations.  It’s not about never having disagreements or even arguments that are part of every healthy and authentic relationship.  But it is about feeling inspired and enlived because our lives our intertwined with each other. 
 Sadly, I have to say that I just don’t feel much of anything when I am with her now.  It feels like our conversations are superficial and often well worn.  Try as I may, it is just so onerous to try to take our conversations to a deeper level.  My counsellor, who is well familiar with BPD, suggests that we just aren’t really connecting on many if any real levels and questions if she is capable of these deeper levels.  She is plenty intelligent, that’s not the issue.  But people with BPD are often known for struggling with deeper empathy, trust and emotional intelligence.  I’m sure the shame which is also a common part of the condition also often hinders her allowing me into her deeper and well guarded inner world.  I can understand all this on an intellectual and compassionate level, but it doesn’t really help me much with the profound sense of isolation and loneliness I constantly feel in our relationship. 
Hence again my question out to this highly knowledgeable and experienced group - I am still wondering if any of you have seen this type of deep emotional growth in your recovering partner? Have any of you seen the type of growth that may even suggest the capacity for people with BPD to experience catch up emotional growth, to become a truly equal emotional partner, to be in a deeply meaningful and fullfilling relationship?