Afraid BPD spouse would be homeless

[How to communicate after a contentious divorce...]

My BPD best friend and spouse of 17 years is getting worse and affecting all aspects of our life. I am loyal to a fault (enabling), but divorce is starting to cross my mind. But he hasn't held a job in 6+ years and has socially isolated himself so much, that I am sure (and he has said) he would be homeless or kill himself if I ever left him. We have an 11-year-old, and I worry it would be devastating to her (and me) if he declined further as a result. Help from anyone who's been there?

[Ble55ed]

My BPD best friend and spouse of 17 years is getting worse and affecting all aspects of our life. I am loyal to a fault (enabling), but divorce is starting to cross my mind. But he hasn't held a job in 6+ years and has socially isolated himself so much, that I am sure (and he has said) he would be homeless or kill himself if I ever left him. We have an 11-year-old, and I worry it would be devastating to her (and me) if he declined further as a result. Help from anyone who's been there?

[Notwendy]

One of the consequences of enabling is that the other person doesn't learn to cope with stress and life skills on their own. Yes, they may have issues due to BPD, but if they are truly too impaired to work, they may be eligible for disability. Or perhaps if someone was not supporting them- they may learn to do a job.

If your H has been financially and emotionally dependent on you, then a sudden departure may leave him without many life skills. However, while you are contemplating what to do, you can take some steps to his own self sufficiency- whether or not you stay married. It would be better for him to have skills too. To do this though, you would have to cut back on what you are doing for him. This may leave him uncomfortable - and he won't likely be pleasant about it, but if he is capable of learning new tasks and you step back and let him, he might.

[DaddyBear77]

Hello Ble55ed,

I will echo what Notwendy said.

You mentioned that your husband hasn't had a job in 6 years, but before that point I assume he held a job? Is there reason to believe that his condition has deteriorated to the point where he couldn't hold a job now? I'm asking in your opinion, not his. He's likely to feel overwhelmed and very anxious about re-entering the workforce, so he may use a lot of emotional reasoning, but this doesn't necessarily reflect reality.

Also, I will add that threats of suicide should always be taken seriously. That doesn't change the fact that sometimes these threats can be made in an effort to manipulate and obtain a desired result from another party. That doesn't mean we should ignore them - quite the opposite. If someone is feeling like they cannot survive on their own, this indicates an urgent need to get help immediately.

I have also been married for as long as you have, and my wife left her corporate job about 6 years ago as well. I've considered divorce at various points and I also worried quite a bit about how my wife would function outside the marriage.

However, I came to realize several things. First, even though she was very emotionally stressed and overwhelmed by the demands of her job, she was very successful at it. Second, if we were to divorce, I would be legally responsible for supporting her for a period of time, which is something I fully intended to do anyway. It's unlikely my wife would be able to live the same lifestyle she's accustomed to with only alimony as income, but I am sure she wouldn't have to be homeless. I am also confident that she has the opportunity and the skills to reenter the workforce, even though she strongly disagrees.

I hope this helps put things into perspective for you.

I will ask you the most important question, though - if you could know for sure that your husband would be just fine in a divorce, what would you want most for your life, and your child, in the coming year?

[Ble55ed]

To answer, I honestly doubt he can hold a job anymore. He's lost his filter for dealing with people and has hopped from job to job since college, never really developed any job skills or coherent career history. He's also rarely looked for a job on his own. For many years, I "helped" searching for openings, drafting cover letters and resumes  for him to submit. He quit a decent mid-level manager job where he hated his coworkers, for a more technical job with a dream employer. But he was fired from that last job after less than six months. In hindsight, it was totally unsuitable for him. He then was too depressed to get out of bed for months. For a while, I looked for jobs, but none sounded good to him, so he would not submit the applications and cancelled a few interviews, so I set a rare boundary -- told him I would no longer do the legwork of looking for a job and writing applications, if he would not submit them or interview -- and that was that. He has not looked at all, because the tech jobs he wants "won't hire an old white guy anyway," and he won't even consider a retail or service job that's "beneath his education" or volunteer work "because I need to be paid." He dabbles at tech work for friends and acquaintances, but usually ends up so angry at the client that he declares he will never work with them again and has lost some friendships over it. He has a myriad of ailments, both real and imagined, that keep his time consumed with various doctor appointments, and most of the time he seems pretty content with his "semi-retirement"  schedule of reading, surfing the internet, running household errands and trying to teach himself new coding languages. I wish I could say he'd be fine providing for himself, but I don't think so. And I can't afford to maintain two households. 

[Panda39]

My SO was also worried that his wife wouldn't be able to make it on her own.  His mother told him she is like a cat and would always land on her feet... .she was right.

His ex had her failures... .was evicted 3 times, each time she landed on someone's couch, saved some money signed a new lease she couldn't afford, got evicted, couch surfed, signed a new lease, got evicted etc... .she had a rough time because there are consequences to our actions but she was never homeless. (I should note that she had enough money via alimony to rent a studio apartment but chose not to do that)

Your husband is an adult you are not his mother, yes, you care about him but he is responsible for himself and you are responsible tor yourself.  If he has held a job in the past then he has demonstrated he can work... .he's done it once he can do it again.  He may have failures just like my SO's ex and her evictions but failures are learning opportunities.                   

Some topics that might be helpful... .
https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=95263.0
https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=111772.0
https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=66672.0

I'm on these boards because my SO has an uBPDxw, but I have my own story of co-dependence... .I was married to an alcoholic for 20 years.

I left a very co-dependent relationship, because I couldn't do it anymore, I couldn't control and manage everything anymore, I was depressed and in a very unhealthy marriage.  

I gave up controlling/managing my husband and left.

My ex struggled following our divorce... .he lost his wife, his house, time with his son, had his 3rd DUI, lost his retirement (cashed out to pay for an attorney), went to work smelling like alcohol and lost his job.  He hit rock bottom and finally stopped drinking, something I could never do and frankly was never going to be able to do.  We can only control/change ourselves, we can not control/change someone else.  He has been sober for over 5 years now.

Your husband like my SO's ex and my ex will need to learn on his own how to manage his life or not, that is his responsibility not yours.

If you are going to leave your marriage, you will need to let go of your co-dependent behaviors, you will need to stop trying to control, care take and manage your husband. You can still care about him but you need to let him handle his own life. I still care about my ex and it was very hard watching him hit bottom. But there was also relief that his life was his and no longer affected my life. I didn't need to come up with money for attorneys, I didn't have to rely on his paycheck - so loosing his job didn't affect me, I didn't have to drive him places because he lost his driver's license. There was freedom in letting go.

If you are going to leave your marriage you will need to start looking out for yourself and doing what is best for you.

Panda39

[Ble55ed]

Thank you for the great advice, especially the reminder that I should be working on myself and my issues, which I have control over. I am definitely co-dependent. Good links!

[formflier]

  that I am sure (and he has said) he would be homeless or kill himself if I ever left him. 

This part pretty much says it all... .

I'm glad you mentioned setting a boundary... .boundaries go both ways.  They protect you and (applied properly) they keep you from getting involved in things "outside" your boundary.

Few questions:  Has your husband applied for disability?  I'm trying to wrap my head around this.

He basically says to you that unless I can have my dream job... I will do no job?  Is that a decent summary?  Will he uber or do things like that?

How does he get money to spend when he wants to splurge on himself?  Or buy himself some McDonalds?

So... does he keep the house clean?  Is he good at errands?  Basically asking... the things he does, does he do them well.   Does he function as  stay at home dad?

FF

[Ble55ed]

Hi Formflier,

No, he hasn't applied for disability. He says he would spiral down and kill himself from the stigma of going out on mental disability.

He has at times considered Uber and and other non-career jobs, but always with disdain and never with applying. He gets his spending money from our joint account and sometimes small tech-related jobs from friends, although yesterday he confessed his "business credit card" is carrying a large balance. I don't know how large, but I think six years' worth of Starbucks large. Somehow he has managed to pay minimums, but I am really worried. Our savings is about gone.

He doesn't do regularly do household chores except dishes, though he likes running errands and as long as he can keep impulse under control (just buy what's on the list!), we're fine.

He's also good at the chauffeur aspect of parenting, but he's so moody, I feel bad about leaving our 11-year-old home with him. They're either arguing until I get home, or off on some indulgent errand to Starbucks "for a cocoa." We're fortunate that she's a good student and does homework unsupervised, but the poor kid doesn't get to play with friends during the week, because he won't host or take her to playdates and we don't have anyone near enough for her to play in the neighborhood.

Really, I love him, but he no longer does anything except complain and be angry at everyone and everything, punctuated with indulgent behavior we can no longer afford. I am absolutely at my wits end and find myself wanting to escape the house on a daily basis.

[Lady Itone]

How frustrating! It sucks shouldering so much responsibility when you have a partner who's not pulling their weight.

Can you start by financially disentangling some from your husband? Turn the joint account into separate accounts so he's not dipping into it for Starbucks? Which of you is legally required to pay that credit card? If he needs an allowance, you can pay him to do extra work in the house. Sounds demeaning, but then again, this isn't an equal partnership if he's living like a dependent.

My sometimes-gfBPD takes disability, and $600 a month isn't much to live on in our part of the country. Her Medicaid is a godsend, though, for her expensive psyche wards and prescription meds. She refuses to get a job, though at times in her life she's been a barista and a nanny, and I think she did well at both. She believes someday after she gets her Bachelor's degree (she's 31 and still hasn't made it 2 years) she's gonna to immediately land a job where she makes more than that, and also has healthcare. Or someone will discover her art and make her famous. I'm skeptical.

[formflier]

The "surprise" spending would be a good and authentic moment to discuss financial changes.

Let him worry about how to pay his bills... .since you weren't involved in getting them there.  The things you do together... .worry about together.  The things you do separate... .worry about separately.

Boundaries.  Once understood will help make your life much simpler.

There will likely come a time when you have to move from him "not wanting" to do things... .to him choosing.  Either have money for starbucks because I worked... .or... no startbucks because there is no money.

Sure... that means you control the money YOU make... but... boundaries.

How does that sound?  Ever have those discussions?

FF

[Ble55ed]

Thank you, FF. You are right. It's time to set boundaries and your suggestions make good sense. So far, it is tough to get him to have those discussions without dysregulating. In a calmer moment, he told me he owes $8K on his business card, is having trouble keeping up with payments and plans to get another with lower interest and transfer the balance. I suggested he put the business card away, out of his wallet, but did not offer to pay the bill. Baby steps!

[formflier]

  So far, it is tough to get him to have those discussions without dysregulating. 

While I certainly don't advocate igoring dysregulation... .I also wouldn't want any "non" to use dysregulation as a "measure of success" or "failure" in a strategy (or tactic) they are using.

Emotionally unstable people dysregulate... .that's what they do.  Nons give themselves way too much credit for causing or preventing dysregulation (IMO).

Much better to shift the mindset to "oh... this again... "  politely ignore the dysregulation and then pick up right where you left off once their episode is over.  Very important to not avoid the difficult topic that "caused" the dysregulation... because you DO NOT want to create (or train) a linkage to "if I dysregulate (fill in the blank) goes away"

Baby steps... .good steps.   

Something to reflect on in your strategy

In your example (stay big picture)

He did something and your response is to suggest he do something.  (can you see how this keeps the focus on him... .his feelings... his emotions... he retains control (I would argue dysfunctional control).

consider this alternative... .consider the "ripple effects" of

He does something and you ":)O" something that makes it about your feelings, your values and protecting you (in a functional way).  No suggestion about what he should do at all... .he is left to "connect his own dots".

So... .

(your pwBPD) "I owe $8k on my business card.  I can't make the payment.  Therefore I will get another card and transfer money over there (with an implicit understanding the card keeps getting used)."

(you)  "That plan doesn't match my values.  I'll make decisions about the money I earn and I'll trust you to make decisions about what you earn."

Don't over explain this.  Very important to "let him connect the dots" between what your values are and what he wants... ."  Let him process this emotionally (even if done very badly)

(the implicit thing... .which will dawn on him) is when he comes to you for money YOU have earned... .to spend according to HIS values... .he walks away with zip zero nadda.

No suggestions on how he fixes this... .just express that you respect and trust his abilities to sort his stuff out. 

Perhaps when he demands money... .be quizzical... .almost befuddled... ."Help me understand how that matches my values?"

Very important to not get defensive... .to not JADE.  Look for places to "agree".

(him)  "So being selfish and making this all about you?  I knew you didn't love me... "

(you... .be authentic... but wise)  Express shock "oh my... I have no words... .wait... .Am I hearing this correctly?  Surely you are not suggesting people go against their core values?"

there will be some further blather

(you)  "This is shocking to me... .I'm going to have to give this some thought.  Apparently you have thought this through, allow me time to do so as well.  Let's talk further about this in a week... perhaps over dinner on Saturday."

Then move along.

FF

[formflier]

  He gets his spending money from our joint account and sometimes small tech-related jobs from friends, although yesterday he confessed his "business credit card" is carrying a large balance. 

This is part of your reality where you evaluate what you do and don't control.

Boundaries go both ways... .you control your stuff... .let him control his.  (yep... I was vague... .so fill in details about how YOU make sure what you earn is spent according to your values)

FF homework assignment 1. !   

FF