Why is the projection so damaging?

[Moselle]

To feel the disdain, contempt and rage of a borderline or narcissist is painful, devastating and destructive.

Why is that? We know it's about them. Why does it still hurt?

[SlyQQ]

They spend a lot of time pinpointing your weaknesses,

It is unwise to let anyone with BPD know what they are,

presenting your strengths as weaknesses is the best defense.

[Sunfl0wer]

It would be painful to love anyone and then experience disdain in return from them... .i think.  Don’t we all prefer to be loved simply?

How could this not make sense?

[Moselle]

It would be painful to love anyone and then experience disdain in return from them... .i think.  :)on’t we all prefer to be loved simply?

How could this not make sense?

Yes I agree on that. I do just want to be loved in return.

I have a BPD/NPD  ex. She has massive disdain and disrespect. Not to mention violence. She has punched me in court for example. This is not new. I'm very aware of the illness. I'm very aware of projection and why a borderline does it.

What doesn't make sense is that it still affects me. Why? What am I missing here?

The logical response is that I am still reacting emotionally to a negative stimulus. But the stimulus is not even about me. I know this 100%, I know this 200%.

Do I have to wait for 10 years of healing time before I start to laugh at her nonsense. Or is there a shortcut that one of us has learned and can share?

She's the mother of my three children btw so she's going to be there for a long, long time unless she walks under a bus.  

presenting your strengths as weaknesses is the best defense.

Now that's an interesting strategy SkyQQ. Please can you give me an example?

[SlyQQ]

It depends on where you are in the relationship,

( it is from the art of war sun tzu )

there were some laughable things my BPD used to try an stir me up with

my relationship with my ex for example, it really didn't worry what she said to me about that so... .


in legal proceedings my obvious weak point was the kids, so i had to down play this

[drained1996]

It hurts... .because we allow it to hurt.  At least that was my experience.  I learned through my process that nobody can make you feel anything... .you allow yourself to feel... .by reacting.  
Didn't make it that much easier... .but I understand the theory, and with less enmeshed relationships I've seen the positive results in understanding and sticking to pretty stringent boundaries. It's much harder with deeply enmeshed/emotional relationships... .
Do you think you can change how you react to her negative stimulus in your life?  No shortcut from what I've learned... .it's our choice on how to react.  They certainly are not going to change.  

[Sunfl0wer]

What doesn't make sense is that it still affects me. Why? What am I missing here?

I think it hurts because our SO filled a space within us that was untouched and got seen and felt by them.  

When they are gone, we feel the wound that exists as this area of our Self is now alone.

What helps is to realize that this wound was existing before they showed up as it is a core early childhood wound.  So while it seems about them, it really is about Us.  

When we learn to help our Self and heal our early childhood wound(s)... .we will stop seeking relief via this Other person.

Maybe think of a tub with a crack.  Someone sits in the tub, the tub can now retain water as their bumm is covering the crack, the tub can now get full. You can now enjoy this tub in a new way, it seems more wonderful than you realized it could be. (And oreviously you did nit see any issue with the way the tub functioned as it was your normal) Now the person exits the tub... .and suddenly, you are noticing, the tub is not holding water the same... .so you now notice this huge flaw about this tub, that you never saw before.  Is it the fault of the person who just got out of the tub?  Or maybe the original crack needs attention?

Post break up... .it can be tempting to look at the person to sit back in the tub as an “easy” fix to the original crack.  Reaching out to that person will cause that wound to temporarily feel soothed as we gain the love/attention from an Other.  We can feel our tub fill up some again.  Yet this is like a “recycle” where we just placed a bandaid on a wound that is not healing... .but the bandaid keeps the wound out of our view.

Yet, why are we so dependent on that attention/love from them?

... .
Short version... .
The answer is always 42... .
Oops... .
I mean... .
The answer is always
Self love

[Duped 1]

They spend a lot of time pinpointing your weaknesses,

This is so sad and so true. I remember being so baffled that someone who claimed to love me more than anything in the world could be so cruel when angry and use every possible means to win an argument. The level of dirty fighting and lows she would stoop to in order to win at any cost was so heartbreaking.

[Lucky Jim]

I think it hurts because our SO filled a space within us that was untouched and got seen and felt by them. 

When they are gone, we feel the wound that exists as this area of our Self is now alone.

What helps is to realize that this wound was existing before they showed up as it is a core early childhood wound.  So while it seems about them, it really is about Us. 

When we learn to help our Self and heal our early childhood wound(s)... .we will stop seeking relief via this Other person.

Sunflower:  Thanks, that was beautifully expressed.  Agree, prior wounds make us particularly susceptible to a BPD r/s in the first place.  One gift of a BPD r/s is that it forces you to confront those wounds, which is a benefit even though painful.

Moselle: One explanation may also be that, despite all evidence to the contrary, we keep expecting a pwBPD to act like a reasonable, rational person, which the pwBPD is not.  In other words, if you shift your expectations, it might not hurt as much.  I also strive to let the hurtful things they say roll off my back like water off a duck.  I have a saying: "Poison is harmless if you don't ingest it."  Maybe you could decline to catch the BPD football?

LuckyJim

[Moselle]

Moselle: One explanation may also be that, despite all evidence to the contrary, we keep expecting a pwBPD to act like a reasonable, rational person, which the pwBPD is not.  In other words, if you shift your expectations, it might not hurt as much.  I also strive to let the hurtful things they say roll off my back like water off a duck.  I have a saying: "Poison is harmless if you don't ingest it."  Maybe you could decline to catch the BPD football?

Yes. I agree with this. Expect the crazy and dont ingest it.

It hurts... .because we allow it to hurt.

Very good point

I think it hurts because our SO filled a space within us that was untouched and got seen and felt by them.  

When they are gone, we feel the wound that exists as this area of our Self is now alone.

What helps is to realize that this wound was existing before they showed up as it is a core early childhood wound

This 100%. She filled a gap that was missing. I think she understood that gap far better than I do.

I think the gap is a catalyst or a spark. I seemed to need the drama in some way. A crisis to react to.

[SlyQQ]

They put themselves in a position wear they have to be "rescued " and cared for,

much like the child they are,

over time they become that, a surrogate and nurture a false sense of being dependent

( like a child ) upon you

There continual dramas enmesh you in this myth

then without warning they bail and you realize it was just that a myth

even when it has become obvious you are plunged into the denial stage of grief because

it is hard to believe you were so thoroughly and utterly conned and it is salted with betrayal

and a sense of failure

easy peasy

[Moselle]

easy peasy

Of course. Easy as cake. 

[Jeffree]

I think part of the hurt isn't the projection as much as it's the conclusions they draw once they feel as though the projection is real.

So, take the small, what should be harmless, accusation of looking at someone else.

pwBPD: Why do you keep staring at that waitress?

Non: What are you talking about?

pwBPD: I saw how you looked at her. She's hot! I'd want her, too, if I were you. Maybe you can be with her if you want. Just like that ex of yours on FB you're still friends with.

Non: Who are you talking about?

pwBPD: That one over there.

Non: She came into my periphery, so I looked over. It could have been anyone.

pwBPD: See? I told you you looked at her and want her.

The projection that you are lusting after someone else is fairly innocuous, though certainly annoying.

However, that you did look at her means you want her, will cheat on your pwBPD if given the chance, you're going to leave her, she will have to leave you before you leave her, in order for her to leave you she needs to see you as someone who she needs to leave so she paints you black, causes drama, insults you, etc. THIS IS THE DAMAGING PART!

J

[Moselle]

she needs to see you as someone who she needs to leave so she paints you black, causes drama, insults you, etc. THIS IS THE DAMAGING PART!

Thanks Jeffree

Is it the Borderline that is responsible for the hurt?

Or am I responsible for believing the nonsense? By the way I believed the idealisation nonsense in the beginning too!

So why is it that I take the ravings of a mentally ill person seriously? Why do I not fall over laughing at her absurdity ?

Let's get to the root of this thing - Its not the Borderline I'm concerned about. I'm concerned about the little guy inside me that believed this drivel. And I want to help him out. How do I help him?

The answer is always
Self love

Sunflower touches on it here.

How how does self love work? What do I do?

Is it a state of being?

[Jeffree]

How do I help him?

I'm not sure. What does the little guy need?

This wasn't anybody's fault. Most of the time relationships don't work out.

It might be harder than heck to do, but I would highly recommend not taking things personally, especially the negative, hurtful stuff.

Be easy on yourself.

J

[Lucky Jim]

Sunflower touches on it here.

How how does self love work? What do I do?

Is it a state of being?

Hello again, Moselle, I'll take a stab at answering your question.  Self-love, in my view, starts with self-acceptance, i.e., accepting yourself just the way you are, without the need to change anything.  You are already complete and worthy, in my view, without the need to prove anything to anyone.  Suggest you embrace your imperfections.  Hey, we're all human!

The next step is self-love, which I think means caring so much about yourself that you will never again allow yourself to be the object of anyone's abuse.  It's about putting yourself first.  If you don't do it, no one else will.  If you can't love yourself, how can you expect anyone else to love you?  I would say it's also about treating yourself with care and compassion, and nurturing your unique qualities.  You are the expert on you.  Strive to be authentic.  Acknowledge, rather than submerge, your feelings, because they are part of you.

OK, you get the idea!  The rest is up to you.

LuckyJim

[Lucky Jim]

P.S.  Thanks to Sunflower for calling our attention to 42:

Short version... .
The answer is always 42... .
Oops... .
I mean... .
The answer is always
Self love

[The Cat in d Hat]

Mine definitely studied me well. Or at least attempted to. We never met, and everything she was able to learn was largely through text, as over the phone and video I wouldn’t talk much about myself, and rather just listen to her, among other things. With text, it’s hard to convey attitude, and she would often say I just don’t understand you. The few things she was able to grasp, I thought I was confiding in a person who was confiding in me. Everything I told her, the last days we talked she just spit it all back on me. I told her I’m open to relationship, she said I’m not emotionally fit, and she’d never be in one with me. I told her I’m not at my physical peak, she laughed and compared me to someone more fit. When she called me insecure, a liar, and emotional blackmailer, it bothered me until i realized it was projection. She left this massive cloud of smoke and mirrors but once you realize what’s happening, it gets easier to not let it drag you down. Be comfortable with yourself, and if there’s room to improve, make those changes.

[Moselle]

Hello again, Moselle, I'll take a stab at answering your question.  Self-love, in my view, starts with self-acceptance, i.e., accepting yourself just the way you are, without the need to change anything.  You are already complete and worthy, in my view, without the need to prove anything to anyone.  Suggest you embrace your imperfections.  Hey, we're all human!

The next step is self-love, which I think means caring so much about yourself that you will never again allow yourself to be the object of anyone's abuse.  It's about putting yourself first.  If you don't do it, no one else will.  If you can't love yourself, how can you expect anyone else to love you?  I would say it's also about treating yourself with care and compassion, and nurturing your unique qualities.  You are the expert on you.  Strive to be authentic.  Acknowledge, rather than submerge, your feelings, because they are part of you.

OK, you get the idea!  The rest is up to you.

LuckyJimì

Thanks LJ.  I really appreciate the feedback. I'm very dedicated to changing which may be invidating to myself. Accepting myself including my weaknesses is counterintuitive but makes sense.

What is 42?

[Lucky Jim]

Accepting myself including my weaknesses is counterintuitive but makes sense.

Right.  We all have weaknesses and they are part of who we are.

Self-Love may seem like a foreign concept, because most of us Nons don't observe that practice in a BPD r/s.  Yet it makes sense, once you get the hang of it.

LJ

[Lucky Jim]

P.S.  I don't know, either, what Sunflower meant by 42.

Here's the quote:

Short version... .
The answer is always 42... .
Oops... .
I mean... .
The answer is always
Self love

[Stjarna]

P.S.  I don't know, either, what Sunflower meant by 42.

Here's the quote:

Clue -- It's from the Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy   

[Sunfl0wer]

Oh, I was being silly... .a reference to the following... .
Wikipedia

   The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy   

The Answer to the Ultimate Question of Life, The Universe, and Everything.
The number 42 is, in The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy by Douglas Adams, the "Answer to the Ultimate Question of Life, the Universe, and Everything", calculated by an enormous supercomputer named Deep Thought over a period of 7.5 million years. Unfortunately, no one knows what the question is. Thus, to calculate the Ultimate Question, a special computer the size of a small planet was built from organic components and named "Earth". The Ultimate Question "What do you get when you multiply six by nine"[18] was found by Arthur Dent and Ford Prefect in the second book of the series, The Restaurant at the End of the Universe. This appeared first in the radio play and later in the novelization of The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy.

[Sunfl0wer]

It just seems that throughout my detaching process... .  whenever I felt stuck on anything... .the answer could always be found in: Self care/self love

When I am obsessing over my loss... .
The answer is... .
Provide to myself what it is I am longing for external of myself.

If I am wondering why he did not value me more... .
Well... .then I must be questioning my own self worth.  (Otherwise why would this thought even penetrate my thinking)
Rather than focusing on “Other”... .it seems that building up my inner resources, inner sense of worth, peace with me... .and loving myself is always the answer.

Idk... .
When is self care NOT the answer to anything we are struggling with?
(Figuring out what we need and learning how to give it to ourself or to feel ok giving it to ourself... .an ongoing thing often)

Seems we may get into a situation of being delusional that our inner emotional needs are to be met by (dependent on) an external person.  Or at least I think this is what I have done when becoming overly emotionally reliant on another.  Yet, if we take responsibility for ensureing we feel ok with ourself and truely knowing that through all of our cells, then can anyone take that away from us?

Idk... .  I am personally having a rough time now and do not have it all figured out.  Yet I do know that the more I am longing for something outside of me (seeking for relief of internal stress via external “soothing/validation”)... .the more subject I can be to suffering. 

Obviously external tools and such have their place... .yet ultimately what I think we all need is to internalize those into internal resources and learn to be ok with ourself... .self love stuff.  Otherwise we are left grasping towards other for relief from our internal emotional enviornment.

[The Cat in d Hat]

This was my first ever conversation with my upwBPD. Hitchhikers guide, meaning of life, restaurant at the end of the universe. Brings back good and bad memories.

@sunfl0wer: I’m having a tough time dealing with self love too. Ordinarily I’ve never had issues with validating and soothing myself, but in this case I’m left uprooted.

[enlighten me]

In answer to your question why is projection so damaging I would say its down to our own self doubt. That little niggle of are they right? Some projection we just laugh off and why is that? Because its absurd. Others though have an affect because we fear they may be true.

[Moselle]

In answer to your question why is projection so damaging I would say its down to our own self doubt. That little niggle of are they right? Some projection we just laugh off and why is that? Because its absurd. Others though have an affect because we fear they may be true.

I agree. The Borderline is master at using an element of truth to male a plausible statement about us which casts some level of doubt in our minds.

It's a toxic reflection of what a Borderline person needs in a partner. Someone who will buy in at least partially to the projection.

Is one defense indifference ? If we be a grey uncooperative rock, they move on

[Sunfl0wer]

I agree. The Borderline is master at using an element of truth to male a plausible statement about us which casts some level of doubt in our minds.

I think part of moving on and detaching is also about detaching from any narratives that create power imbalances.  (Drama triangle warning)

Persons with BPD have some acute sensitivites at times.  Sometimes they are talented at reaching a heart of another... .because of this extra emotional sensitivity.  They can find a way to connect with others in some meaningful intuitive ways at times.  (Due to personally having the hypervigilance that comes with cPTSD, I relate to this ability... .it is similar to a BPD ability)

However, calling them “master” or elevating them to having “powers” over us is tricky language.

I would caution against inner thoughts that could elevate them to be a Persecutor as it may hinder a more meaningful/advanced kind of detachment. (As it assigns them more importance in the narrative.  Better to create narratives where Self is most important character)

After all, we are all adults.
We choose as much as they did to participate in this relational dynamic.
When we shift our focus to Us/ourself in defining meaning in this... .we are affecting how we view ourself.  Choosing to view ourself as a person who put up with certain crap is different than choosing to view ourself as one who was manipulated.  Imo, the difference in how we tell this story to ourself is immportant in our self care and in eventually giving ourself a semblance of closure.

[SlyQQ]

A man is an island.

[Lucky Jim]

Rather than focusing on “Other”... .it seems that building up my inner resources, inner sense of worth, peace with me... .and loving myself is always the answer.

Sunflower:  Agree on the above.  If I had subscribed to #42, I doubt that I would have married a pwBPD, or at least would have bailed out of the r/s at a much earlier point.  Yet obviously I lacked a strong sense of self-worth and had no concept of loving myself, which caused me to stay and suffer far longer than was healthy for me.  No more.  I care about myself too much these days to put up with abuse, which is unacceptable to me.

LuckyJim