Looking for tips on getting pwBPD onboard with Co-Parenting

[Family Court Strategies: When Your Partner Has BPD OR NPD Traits.]

Hi All,
    I've just made it through 24 hours of parenting hell with the added excitement of dBPDstbxh refusing to discuss parenting decisions so we can be consistent but making it clear that that's not how he'll handle things "in his house". 
    I'm looking for tips from any of you who have had success shifting from divorce to a workable co-parenting relationship.  My stance, as stated to dBPDstbxh, is that our differences in opinions/styles can be a positive if we work together to find a balance and no matter what we decide on it will be better for our son if we are consistent in applying it across both households.  (I know.  I dream big.)  I want to work towards that but the barriers I feel like I'm running up against are:
-dBPDstbxh deciding my approach is wrong without getting information about the context in which I made my decisions and based on his "painted black" view of me. 
-dBPDstbxh agreeing verbally that we should work together to make parenting decisions but being "too busy" to actually do so and then criticizing/undermining the approach I've taken.

    Here's an example -  S14 has disappeared from youth group without notifying anyone in the past.  This is unacceptable from a safety and liability standpoint.  I addressed this with S14 by establishing the policy that I will encourage him to attend youth group and resolve any issues that are making him not want to be there but he has the right to decide not to attend on any given week and I will respect that.  I have also given him the instructions that he is to text me or notify an adult sponsor and have them text me to pick him up if he is feeling overwhelmed and wants to leave youth group early.  I won't hound him about not attending or needing to leave early.  I'll restate the offer to encouragement/help to resolve the issues that make him not want to be at youth group and give him some space.
    I informed S14 of this "policy" when we first found out about his disappearing act, with a quick restatement of "remember, you can text me if you need to leave early" every time I dropped him off.  I also informed dBPDstbxh that "this is how I'm handling this".  When our new youth pastor (YP) called a meeting with me and dBPDstbxh to discuss some behavior issues he's seeing from S14, I restated my policy (dBPDstbxh seemed to be hearing it for the first time) and YP loved that approach and supports it fully.  dBPDstbxh said he'd do the same.  I went home immediately after that meeting and let S14 know that YP and dBPDstbxh and I were all in agreement that this is how we would handle any situation where he did not feel comfortable staying at youth group.  I then text YP and dBPDstbxh to let them know that I have informed S14 of the policies we agreed upon.
    This week S14 seemed sullen and quiet before youth group, so I asked if he was sure he wanted to go.  He said "yes".  When we got in the car I reminded him that I was planning to meet a friend for dinner but was willing to cancel so I would be more available to pick him up if he needed to leave early.  He said "I'll be fine".  Then just as I'm sitting down at the restaurant I get a call from one of the adult sponsors asking if I had picked S14 up.  I let them know I hadn't and that I will try to contact him and head to the church immediately.  S14 picks up my call and confirms that he's outside.  I ask if he's comfortable going back down to youth group or if he would like me to pick him up.  He doesn't respond so I tell him I'll be there to pick him up in less than 20 minutes and to either go back down to youth group or stay put where he is. 
    When I get to the church dBPDstbxh is waiting with S14.  He says "I was just letting him know about our policy".  I let dBPDstbxh know that S14 is already aware of the policy but "thanks for reviewing it with him" and get S14 in the car.  On the drive home I let S14 know that I'm angry.  I let him know that what he did was unacceptable, ask him to hand over his phone, go up to his room when we get home while I eat something and cool down, and let him know that we will talk in about 30 minutes. 
    I won't go into detail on S14's behavior, but suffice it to say that he started giving me the silent treatment and my policy when he is doing that is to retain his electronics until he acknowledges my existence by making eye contact when requested and responding to direct questions (simple questions, like would you like a sandwich. I'm not requiring that he answer "why are you behaving this way?" type questions and I periodically remind him that he has the right to ask for space, but that needs to be a verbal request not silent treatment).  I did let dBPDstbxh know that I had confiscated S14's phone and what I had given as prerequisites for getting it back (end of silent treatment as described above).  dBPDstbxh opposed taking away S14's phone because that was "isolating a depressed person" (I could write a whole other post on dBPDstbxh's projection on S14) and not warranted because didn't think HE had informed S14 that he was supposed to text if he wanted to be picked up early vs. leaving without informing anyone.  He made the statement that he wouldn't be enforcing that consequence "in his house" and proceeded to refuse/ignore my requests to discuss and come to an agreement on how we would BOTH address this issue.  I left him a voicemail providing additional information (like S14 being fully aware of the policy and S14's subsequent behavior) and again invited discussion.  Other issues arose that forced him to interact with S14 and me.  A long conversation later I got him to agree that we should be in agreement on how we respond to S14's behavior so we can be consistent and that will take some discussion between the two of us (yes, I JADEd to get to this point) but now he's "too busy" to have those discussions.

    So after that VERY long example that just scratches the surface of the past 24 hours... .any tips?
BeagleGirl

[BeagleGirl]

Hi All,
    I've just made it through 24 hours of parenting hell with the added excitement of dBPDstbxh refusing to discuss parenting decisions so we can be consistent but making it clear that that's not how he'll handle things "in his house". 
    I'm looking for tips from any of you who have had success shifting from divorce to a workable co-parenting relationship.  My stance, as stated to dBPDstbxh, is that our differences in opinions/styles can be a positive if we work together to find a balance and no matter what we decide on it will be better for our son if we are consistent in applying it across both households.  (I know.  I dream big.)  I want to work towards that but the barriers I feel like I'm running up against are:
-dBPDstbxh deciding my approach is wrong without getting information about the context in which I made my decisions and based on his "painted black" view of me. 
-dBPDstbxh agreeing verbally that we should work together to make parenting decisions but being "too busy" to actually do so and then criticizing/undermining the approach I've taken.

    Here's an example -  S14 has disappeared from youth group without notifying anyone in the past.  This is unacceptable from a safety and liability standpoint.  I addressed this with S14 by establishing the policy that I will encourage him to attend youth group and resolve any issues that are making him not want to be there but he has the right to decide not to attend on any given week and I will respect that.  I have also given him the instructions that he is to text me or notify an adult sponsor and have them text me to pick him up if he is feeling overwhelmed and wants to leave youth group early.  I won't hound him about not attending or needing to leave early.  I'll restate the offer to encouragement/help to resolve the issues that make him not want to be at youth group and give him some space.
    I informed S14 of this "policy" when we first found out about his disappearing act, with a quick restatement of "remember, you can text me if you need to leave early" every time I dropped him off.  I also informed dBPDstbxh that "this is how I'm handling this".  When our new youth pastor (YP) called a meeting with me and dBPDstbxh to discuss some behavior issues he's seeing from S14, I restated my policy (dBPDstbxh seemed to be hearing it for the first time) and YP loved that approach and supports it fully.  dBPDstbxh said he'd do the same.  I went home immediately after that meeting and let S14 know that YP and dBPDstbxh and I were all in agreement that this is how we would handle any situation where he did not feel comfortable staying at youth group.  I then text YP and dBPDstbxh to let them know that I have informed S14 of the policies we agreed upon.
    This week S14 seemed sullen and quiet before youth group, so I asked if he was sure he wanted to go.  He said "yes".  When we got in the car I reminded him that I was planning to meet a friend for dinner but was willing to cancel so I would be more available to pick him up if he needed to leave early.  He said "I'll be fine".  Then just as I'm sitting down at the restaurant I get a call from one of the adult sponsors asking if I had picked S14 up.  I let them know I hadn't and that I will try to contact him and head to the church immediately.  S14 picks up my call and confirms that he's outside.  I ask if he's comfortable going back down to youth group or if he would like me to pick him up.  He doesn't respond so I tell him I'll be there to pick him up in less than 20 minutes and to either go back down to youth group or stay put where he is. 
    When I get to the church dBPDstbxh is waiting with S14.  He says "I was just letting him know about our policy".  I let dBPDstbxh know that S14 is already aware of the policy but "thanks for reviewing it with him" and get S14 in the car.  On the drive home I let S14 know that I'm angry.  I let him know that what he did was unacceptable, ask him to hand over his phone, go up to his room when we get home while I eat something and cool down, and let him know that we will talk in about 30 minutes. 
    I won't go into detail on S14's behavior, but suffice it to say that he started giving me the silent treatment and my policy when he is doing that is to retain his electronics until he acknowledges my existence by making eye contact when requested and responding to direct questions (simple questions, like would you like a sandwich. I'm not requiring that he answer "why are you behaving this way?" type questions and I periodically remind him that he has the right to ask for space, but that needs to be a verbal request not silent treatment).  I did let dBPDstbxh know that I had confiscated S14's phone and what I had given as prerequisites for getting it back (end of silent treatment as described above).  dBPDstbxh opposed taking away S14's phone because that was "isolating a depressed person" (I could write a whole other post on dBPDstbxh's projection on S14) and not warranted because didn't think HE had informed S14 that he was supposed to text if he wanted to be picked up early vs. leaving without informing anyone.  He made the statement that he wouldn't be enforcing that consequence "in his house" and proceeded to refuse/ignore my requests to discuss and come to an agreement on how we would BOTH address this issue.  I left him a voicemail providing additional information (like S14 being fully aware of the policy and S14's subsequent behavior) and again invited discussion.  Other issues arose that forced him to interact with S14 and me.  A long conversation later I got him to agree that we should be in agreement on how we respond to S14's behavior so we can be consistent and that will take some discussion between the two of us (yes, I JADEd to get to this point) but now he's "too busy" to have those discussions.

    So after that VERY long example that just scratches the surface of the past 24 hours... .any tips?
BeagleGirl

[formflier]

BG,

OK... .here is the parenting tip, flip this around, put your kids feelings first... understand those... first.  

What I didn't see in all of that detail was what the kid expressed as to his reasoning/thinking/feeling?  

So... .what was it?  If he wrote it out and you wrote it out an your hubby wrote it out... .do you think those stories would match.  "it" being what your kid is trying to express.

Now... .please don't take this as me saying he shouldn't go to youth group, I think he needs to learn to stay and be fine and not be picked up unless there is a "basis in fact" for his feelings... .but still... .feelings, listening and understanding first.

What's going on in his world... .?

I'm all for obedience after the talk(s).  


Very likely a lot I don't understand here or wasn't communicated... .so let's keep the conversation going.

Oh... .to the question you asked.  You give him the chance to be involved but you don't wait.  This will be frustrating for you... .and likely won't go well, that still means you should try.




FF

[livednlearned]

Is your divorce recent?

It seems like the important part of this is why he's ducking out of youth group.

Divorce is pretty destabilizing, and 14 is a tough age. I don't know how recent your divorce is, but knowing what I know now, I wish I had been more patient, more understanding, more skilled the first couple of years after the divorce.

Does S14 have someone who is skilled at helping teens through divorce, a trained therapist?

The fact that you have lovingly given him the policy, and yet he's still not taking you up on it suggests that his disappearing act might be more about emotional regulation.

My son used to shut down, too. It wasn't the same as the silent treatment, even though there was plenty of silence with both.

When S16 clammed up, it was because he was working his way through intense emotions and didn't have words for what he was feeling. He avoided eye contact (still does), and needs to return to baseline before he can say how he feels.

It isn't about me.

I wonder if the DEAR skill might help you with S14.

Define the problem: When you leave youth group, there are safety and liability issues. People worry.
Express: We can't have you walking away without telling people.
Assert your needs: I love you so much, and I worry that something is bothering you, something so difficult that you feel the need to leave the group.
Reinforce: Here's what we can do to help make sure your needs get met. If we do x, you'll have y, and that way we can keep this safe.

The reinforce/rewards part is whatever works best for you.

With S16 (who used to say he was going to do things in whatever building I dropped him off at, and then would basically not go, or hide somewhere), I would tell him, Try it for 10 min. If you need a break, I'll be here in my car reading. You can come out, take a breather, then go back in when you're ready. That was a whole thing for a while. Then we made modifications.

The part about taking S14's phone away deviates a bit from the love and logic approach, if that's a parenting style that's of interest. I find it tough to find consequences that match the crime, so to speak. Taking away S16's internet definitely gets compliance but it does not get his respect. If S14 doesn't stay put at youth group, then maybe the consequence is that you stay close by. It could be that's actually what he wants right now, but can't articulate it.

S16's T said that divorce tends to cause big maturity regressions in kids, and the early teens is already so hormonal and weird.

[formflier]

I'll second a re-examination of the "connection" between walking out and having a cell phone taken.  I'm not sure the connection.

Might be better to focus cell phone discussions on what cell phones are for (such as contacting me when  you walk out)... .or relating the cell phone thing to lack of contact.

When he gets home with you, it may be smart to have a place for him to put and charge his electronics, vice just having it with him all the time.

So... I'll end by saying that the cell phone think may be appropriate, but it will really matter how it is presented.

FF