Not having a good day...did I stand up for myself...or shoot myself in foot

[Family Court Strategies: When Your Partner Has BPD OR NPD Traits.]

Quick background.  I went out of my way to do a few things for my wife today... .helped her out of a jam. 

I think start getting phone calls about vehicles for sale... .our vehicles.  Yes... true... when fixed up we have talked about selling a couple.  Well... .I ask where this guy found the vehicle for sale and it's on an app of some sort.

So I text my wife.  It seems that she decided that D12 should list our vehicles for sale on an app. 

I ask her to take it down or have d12 take it down.  She asks if I don't want to sell vehicles... .I say that I would... when they are ready... .and that process matters to me, if I'm going to be involved.

She then says that she feels like I don't include her in decisions and only do things that work for me... .

To which... .I said the following below... .I had had enough.

FFw... .it is preposterous for you mention making decisions together... .when that is exactly what didn't happen... and what I wanted to happen

Go look in mirror and complain to yourself
 
I have no words... .to express my shock... .on a day when I went out of the way to help you... .without even a thanks

 
Yet you complain to me about your behavior... .alleging I am doing it... .are you putting me on?

She then launched into full on BPD blather via text... .I largely ignored it. 

At the moment... .Frankly... .I don't care about rules... .the projection (I think that is what it is) is too much... .it really is preposterous... .

Some things just need to be said... .

FF

[formflier]

Quick background.  I went out of my way to do a few things for my wife today... .helped her out of a jam. 

I think start getting phone calls about vehicles for sale... .our vehicles.  Yes... true... when fixed up we have talked about selling a couple.  Well... .I ask where this guy found the vehicle for sale and it's on an app of some sort.

So I text my wife.  It seems that she decided that D12 should list our vehicles for sale on an app. 

I ask her to take it down or have d12 take it down.  She asks if I don't want to sell vehicles... .I say that I would... when they are ready... .and that process matters to me, if I'm going to be involved.

She then says that she feels like I don't include her in decisions and only do things that work for me... .

To which... .I said the following below... .I had had enough.

FFw... .it is preposterous for you mention making decisions together... .when that is exactly what didn't happen... and what I wanted to happen

Go look in mirror and complain to yourself
 
I have no words... .to express my shock... .on a day when I went out of the way to help you... .without even a thanks

 
Yet you complain to me about your behavior... .alleging I am doing it... .are you putting me on?

She then launched into full on BPD blather via text... .I largely ignored it. 

At the moment... .Frankly... .I don't care about rules... .the projection (I think that is what it is) is too much... .it really is preposterous... .

Some things just need to be said... .

FF

[ortac77]

You have my sympathies, projection is hard to deal with and yes sometimes things do need saying. I find this the hardest thing to deal with especially when one is accused of taking decisions without consultation, I find any consultation is ignored and then when something happens I am accused of making 'Rules'.

[Cat Familiar]

It's frustrating as all get out when they accuse you of something they are doing, often in real time as they level the accusation against you.

My personal favorite is when my husband accuses me of "not being friendly" out of the blue when he has a grim look on his face and is walking away. Or when he's angry and tells me I'm angry when I might have been totally focused upon fixing something or reading a book.

And doing something that takes a lot of my time and is only for his benefit--not only to receive no thanks or acknowledgement but then later to be told that I only think of myself--well, that takes the cake.

So I totally understand that you would want to communicate directly with her, the way you would with a "normal" person. And of course, you realize at the time as well as later how unproductive that is. But sometimes just speaking our truth feels so good!

Ah, pwBPD seem to have a PhD in Hypocrisy.

So now that I'm having better boundaries post-concussion thanks to neurofeedback, my responses to this sort of thing have de-escalated. The internal feedback loop that goes on in my brain still is: "You a-hole." But what comes out of my mouth is often "Uh huh" or "Yeah, I'm controlling" or nothing at all.

I think there's a price to be paid for being less triggered: it's kinda all encompassing. When he's really sweet to me and does something kind, I'm thinking, "Uh huh" too. I'm willing to pay this price because I'm tired of having expectations and being set up for disappointment, time and time again. It's not the optimal way I'd want a relationship to be, and of course none of us (with few exceptions) would choose to be in a relationship with a pwBPD had we known at the outset what we were signing up for.

[formflier]

I basically realized that I needed to handle it ... .in the moment... .or not at all. 

I chose to handle it... .address it.  It will be interesting to see if she addresses it when she comes home.

This is a bit out of character for me... .yet I have been considering changing  my approach to some things for a while.

So I am looking at this... .and kinda curious at what this out of character thing will accomplish.


FF

[Red5]

Ok formflier,

Red5 has a checklists for you !

Ok, here goes!

I had this happen the other day over trees we are taking down in the yard.

Same thing, “we don’t make decisions together”, “you don’t listen to me, and you NEVER want to talk to me about this, you always put me off”, and the tried and true;… “you always say, I would like to talk about this later, after I am finished with this, but you never do”.

So what to do in your case, with the source data we have here that you have written,

Tools to use:

#1) Validate Mrs. Formflier,

*Can we talk, first off, I apologize for my previous remarks, and I am sorry, second; I would like to talk about this with you so that we can resolve this issue between us, when would be a convenient time for you.

*I am sorry I got off on the wrong footing here; again I do apologize, sorry about that.

*[CHAFF and FLARES] Where are you right now, is there anything I need to pick up from the store?

#2) SET

*[support]

Hey Babe, I understand you want to sell these vehicles, I just (don’t say but) wanted to ensure that we try to do it the best way so that we are not held responsible for any repairs, or any type of fraud via the internet, you know how this can sometimes go down when things are sold over the internet, do you have any concerns about this?

*[empathy]

Babe I understand you wanting to get these vehicles out of the yard, and off the prop-T, can we talk about some things that I want to ensure is done to them first, and as well can you maybe help me in the listing process, as we want to include all options, make, and model of each one so that they all go to a good home, are there any concerns you may have about this process?

*[truth]

Thank you for taking the ball on this, I do very much appreciate it, you are awesome, and I love you !… maybe we can utilize the local paper too, and list the vehicles there, so it’s more of a local enterprise, what do you think? Do you remember where any of the original documents may be, what do you think about doing a CarFax on each one so that the future buyer feel more confident in the purchase.

A little push now…

*Hey sweetie, I am kinda worried about using this internet app, and if would be cool with you, I would like us to sit down over some coffee, and maybe come up with a better plan, not that yours wasn't good, I just am a little leery of using the internet app, what are your thoughts Babe?

NOTAMS:

*As usual SOP, no JADE.

*Let her run out on to the end of her frustration with you, and “let it all go”.

CHARM CHARM CHARM !

*If she starts having a helmet fire again, just listen to her, and say it, “I’m listening babe”, “yes yes, and yes, I understand exactly what your saying here, and I understand your point, and your frustrations here”… Just keep listening until she is done.

*A little arse kissing IS authorized, .help her down outa that tree Sir !

Let us know how you are doing, and how its turning out !

Hope this helps formflier !

Red5~>out

[formflier]

I was able to text and then actually chat briefly with my P.

Got a few pointers... .especially on how to ask about what she was upset about... .because she obviously has something stuck in her (fill in the blank)

What seems out of character for me exactly I've been upset about you sending me to work so you can stay home for well the last 3 years you haven't worked

Oh... .that... right... no need to engage there

[Red5]

I was able to text and then actually chat briefly with my P.

Formflier, what is designator “P” ?

Red5

[Fian]

Was this the right decision?  I guess that depends on what you have for a goal.

If you wanted peace, then I think the approach is counter productive.

If you wanted her to not make unilateral decisions, I guess we will see.  The general thinking is that a person with BPD is going to do what they want to do regardless of what you do, so maybe that gets back to just choosing the action that produces peace (see above).  Yet, on the other hand, many people have said that if a BPD person knows that something they would really hate would happen (like divorce) then they won't do action x that would trigger that.  For example, some people with BPD won't cheat on their spouse because they know what the result would be.

In this case, you tried to make her feel guilty.  She was behaving badly, and you made that crystal clear.  Maybe she won't like the experience and will try to avoid it in the future.  However, BPD tend to be in high conflict relationships, so it is also possible that you fighting with her makes her more comfortable.  If that is the case, your action won't make her avoid unilateral decisions in the future, and might actually encourage it.

Hard to say what will happen.  I am curious too.

For the record, I recently found out that I have Asperger's.  As such I would probably have made the same decision as you, as we tend to be direct.  I find it hard to go with the "don't invalidate" logic on this board.  So often, feelings are used to justify behavior, and when that happens, I will usually invalidate.

[formflier]

Formflier, what is designator “P” ?

Psychologist. 

She primarily has seen me.  She has seen my wife individually a few times... .and us jointly a few times.  Then my wife declared her to be "not a Christian" and "secular" and therefore incapable of anything wise or helpful.

Funny thing is, I've learned more about grace and how to properly apply it from P... .than in church.  Hmmm... .

FF

[formflier]

Interesting outcome that I did not expect.

We are relaxing and getting ready for bed.  My wife leaned over and gave me a kiss... .thanked me for providing pizza.  I told her she was welcome.

I couldn't have asked for a more genuine feeling expression of thankfulness on her part.

Declare victory and move along.

FF

[Red5]

Interesting outcome that I did not expect.

We are relaxing and getting ready for bed.  My wife leaned over and gave me a kiss... .thanked me for providing pizza.  I told her she was welcome.

I couldn't have asked for a more genuine feeling expression of thankfulness on her part.

Declare victory and move along.

FF

Awesome!

It does "come and go" doesn't it... .ebb and flow, up and down, the sky is falling, nope, its nice out, lets have some wine... .I hate you, I love you... .dog house today, allowed back in the house tomorrow... .

Glad things are better for you formflier !

... .in Red5's world, I used to think, as I read this many times, and was told to try and practice it as much as was/is possible by family members, and fellow church goers long ago when I got married the first time, I was eighteen, she was barely seventeen  ,

*Never let the sun go down on your anger, ie' resolve, and make peace before taps and lights out,

*Never forsake the marriage bed, ie' stand your ground, and sleep in the same bed with your wife, no retreating to the couch, make up and go to bed,

Well, not in Red5's marriage to u/BPD wife no. 2... .nope, she will stay mad at me for daze and daze... .and will order me "outa the bedroom"... .most times I am by then so pissed, and seething at yet another BPD production, I just go, anything to just get away from her for a while... .I do seem to like the alone time more and more, in Red5's little office watching the television, or listening to music, and hanging out with the chow mix stray dog, long after taps and lights out.

Sometime ago, one of us wrote that ST is actually a good thing, a respite as it were, much needed quiet time ?

... .u/BPDw has a little yorkie dog, who she has had since we met eleven years ago, up front I will say that I do love this little puppy dog, and she (yorkie dog) loves me too... .but/ this little dog sleeps with us every night, between us in the bed, funny thing is... .lately u/BPDw has "requested sex", on a more regular basis (?) , but that's a tall order being she spends most of her time coloring me black, not to mention that sweet little dog lying between us all night, when we do share the same bed, that's about a 75-25% proposition these daze... .so nogo there, and she is also most times not feeling well anyways due to her ongoing treatments, (a whole other story)... .yeah, a little dog in our bed, kind of like the full body pillow my first wife used to put between us ... .Red5 will never learn will he  

Anyways, I do sleep much better on the nice leather couch in the office, under my USMC issue poncho liner, .such as life eh'

Red5

[Cat Familiar]

Well, formflier, I've had a similar experience of needing to tell the unvarnished truth and it's a damned if you do, damned if you don't.

My husband is planning on getting a hip replacement. He's seen another doc and it appears that the joint has further degraded in the last year.

Previously he was planning on doing the surgery without any idea of the recovery and rehab afterwards. He told me that it would be "outpatient" and that he'd go home that day.

ALARM BELLS. DANGER. DANGER.

In no way can I physically lift him and assist him getting into the shower, going up stairs, getting out of bed. He weighs 80 pounds more than me.

So, being the researcher I am, I did some extensive research on what to expect after a hip replacement. Sharing my finding with him... .well... .those of you versed in BPD behavior can rightfully expect just what happened next.

I'm accused of being "unsupportive" "negative"---"Oh, you just want me to leave and go elsewhere." "I'm not welcome here"  etc.

So that was some time ago. Yesterday he drove several hours to see a doctor and his new plan is to do surgery at that hospital. This was all based upon a friend with a friend who had surgery a few weeks ago. My husband's friend told him that this guy was "bouncing down the hall" just after surgery. Well, a different story emerged when my husband actually called and talked with the surgical patient. He's rented a place nearby and is staying with his wife there for a month while physical therapists come daily and medical techs monitor his pain medication.

I expressed doubts about him a couple of days post-surgery being able to bend at the waist so he could ride in a car several hours (can vary from 3 to over 6 depending upon traffic). So his new idea is that I'm "negative" and he'll just hire an airport limousine driver.

This sort of behavior doesn't impact me nearly as much as it used to, but it's really off-putting to be accused of "not helping" when trying to plan ahead to deal with real circumstances that will soon impact both his life and mine.

Yes, it's a blow to his ego, and the delusional idea that he has of still being a "young man" to think about purchasing a cane, a grabber mechanism to pick up items on the floor, a raised toilet seat extension, etc.

And to top it off, he was very impressed with the doctor he just saw because he's a bike rider and has pictures of the Tour de France on his office wall.

There's another local doctor that was highly recommended by my husband's family physician whose wife received a hip replacement from him. Yet my husband is turned off to that practice because the office didn't call him immediately after getting a referral.

Sometimes the criteria by which pwBPD make important decisions seems so flimsy. Rather than competence, knowing of successful outcomes, good recommendations, it's more about who fluffs their egos.