Update on MIL & living situation

[Before you can make things better, you have to stop making them worse...]

hi all.

haven't posted in a while, but last time I did, it was about concerns regarding going to visit my in-laws abroad and my MIL coming back with us and moving in.    while abroad, I kinda saw that a lot of the insane outbursts and emotional manipulation are really just my UBPDw's issues, not "cultural" as I suspected, and as she often claimed.

it's been about 3 weeks since we got back, but things have been mostly positive.  

BUT... .of course it wouldn't last... .WHY did I let myself get comfortable? WHY?

So uBPDw was in a charity bike ride last weekend, preparing for which took up some of her time, and I suppose mental inclination toward fighting.

almost as soon as that was over, the trouble started.  I had to go pick her up at the finish line, and we weren't sure when she'd be done.  we agreed on when I'd leave (it was a 2 1//2 hour drive).  of course, she finished an hour & a half early, and so had time to sit around and stew by herself that it was all my fault, etc etc that she had to wait.

then yesterday after work, I'm watching TV while her and my MIL put the kids to sleep.  she comes in the room, and blindsides me with a bunch of questions about why I wasn't "nicer" to her mom while she was on her ride, and where I went for 3 hours one day.  (I was grocery shopping and went to the hardware store... .they saw everything I bought!)

The hostility continued, and - this is the thing - really caught me off guard such that I didn't recognize it for what it was.  

I woke up today, having processed things overnight really troubled and upset by it.

Tried to be nice all day long.  come home from work, and was reading to my son when she suddenly informed me that her mom has a crown loose, and what can we do about that?  She has no health or dental insurance of course... . 

then you can guess where it goes from here... .everything I said was twisted around and used to attack me.  And now there's door slamming and dozens of nasty text messages... .

ugh.  Just UGH.  I don't have the patience for this.  I can tolerate maybe a half a day of negativity before I start mentally replaying past fights in my head, nasty things she's said and done, and getting really to simply walk out.  this is hell.

[PeteWitsend]

hi all.

haven't posted in a while, but last time I did, it was about concerns regarding going to visit my in-laws abroad and my MIL coming back with us and moving in.    while abroad, I kinda saw that a lot of the insane outbursts and emotional manipulation are really just my UBPDw's issues, not "cultural" as I suspected, and as she often claimed.

it's been about 3 weeks since we got back, but things have been mostly positive.  

BUT... .of course it wouldn't last... .WHY did I let myself get comfortable? WHY?

So uBPDw was in a charity bike ride last weekend, preparing for which took up some of her time, and I suppose mental inclination toward fighting.

almost as soon as that was over, the trouble started.  I had to go pick her up at the finish line, and we weren't sure when she'd be done.  we agreed on when I'd leave (it was a 2 1//2 hour drive).  of course, she finished an hour & a half early, and so had time to sit around and stew by herself that it was all my fault, etc etc that she had to wait.

then yesterday after work, I'm watching TV while her and my MIL put the kids to sleep.  she comes in the room, and blindsides me with a bunch of questions about why I wasn't "nicer" to her mom while she was on her ride, and where I went for 3 hours one day.  (I was grocery shopping and went to the hardware store... .they saw everything I bought!)

The hostility continued, and - this is the thing - really caught me off guard such that I didn't recognize it for what it was.  

I woke up today, having processed things overnight really troubled and upset by it.

Tried to be nice all day long.  come home from work, and was reading to my son when she suddenly informed me that her mom has a crown loose, and what can we do about that?  She has no health or dental insurance of course... . 

then you can guess where it goes from here... .everything I said was twisted around and used to attack me.  And now there's door slamming and dozens of nasty text messages... .

ugh.  Just UGH.  I don't have the patience for this.  I can tolerate maybe a half a day of negativity before I start mentally replaying past fights in my head, nasty things she's said and done, and getting really to simply walk out.  this is hell.

[pearlsw]

hi all.

haven't posted in a while, but last time I did, it was about concerns regarding going to visit my in-laws abroad and my MIL coming back with us and moving in.    while abroad, I kinda saw that a lot of the insane outbursts and emotional manipulation are really just my UBPDw's issues, not "cultural" as I suspected, and as she often claimed.

it's been about 3 weeks since we got back, but things have been mostly positive.  

BUT... .of course it wouldn't last... .WHY did I let myself get comfortable? WHY?

Hi PeteWitsend,

I tell ya, if I had dollar for every time I let myself get comfortable and think there isn't gonna be any more off the charts behavior... .Ay, ay, ay! I'd be sitting on a pile of cash!  

And I grapple with that cultural question too. How much of what I experience are cultural differences and how much just straight up unacceptable stuff?

So, are you being pressured into paying your MIL's dental bills? Is it pretty serious? What do you want to do?

with compassion, pearl.

[PeteWitsend]

Yes, I feel I am being pressured to pay this bill; that's why she dropped them in my lap, in an extremely hostile manner, while I was reading to my son, with no advance notice.

on one hand, of course I'd pay to help out family... .but on the other hand, it's obviously a discussion we need to have because 1) is this setting a precedent for her other bills?  and 2) she brought her life savings with her, and while they're not too substantial, they're enough to pay all her living expenses for about 18 months, were she to go out on her own.  she could pay a portion of it maybe?  but no offer to discuss was extended or allowed. 

and this is after we just spent $4000-$5000 on the trip to visit in-laws, and a five figure tax bill we got hit with because we didn't change our withholding enough when she went back to work.

But this story is not an isolated incident... .it's all too typical.  Wife reads up on something, decides on a course of action, and then presents it to me out of the blue, and when she doesn't immediately get a "Yes!" as an answer, reacts hostilely, and storms off, comes back to insult me for being cheap, selfish, a bad father, a bad husband, etc.  

and this incident was coupled with all the unexpected hostility from last night... .I know I'm in choppy waters.

[PeteWitsend]

I forgot to add this tidbit:

yesterday night after getting screamed at for not jumping up and saying I'd pay all my MIL's dental bills, whatever the cost, I went downstairs to eat. 

when I looked at my phone after i finished, I had like 30+ text messages.

at some point while I was eating, she texted my brother a pic of all of us from two weekends ago (us & our kids and my MIL) and he jokingly responded "congrats on giving birth to a healthy mother-in-law!"

 a stupid joke, but obviously a joke.  instead of laughing, wife chewed him out, saying he needed to learn some manners from his own mother, he was disrespectful and crude,  etc etc.

I chimed in "hey it was only a joke" which then resulted in another 30+ texts... .

I then went to bed and saw her sitting up in the dark on her phone and got mad... ."I can't believe you're going to sit in bed texting this S---, put your f-----  phone away and go to bed"  ... .she stormed out. 

I obviously didn't handle the situation well, to de-escalate, validate, etc. and to be honest, I don't care!

[Lucky Jim]

Hey Pete, Sorry to hear that it's rough sledding again.  The cyclic nature of a BPD r/s is challenging, I know, because even during the good times I was waiting for the other shoe to drop.  I used to say, a storm cloud could appear out of a clear blue sky!  I suggest you start with yourself, by paying close attention to your needs and small desires.  What would you like to see happen?  What are your gut feelings about your marriage?  What is the best path for you?  I know these are not easy questions.  Fill us in, when you can.

LuckyJim

[PeteWitsend]

Hey Pete, Sorry to hear that it's rough sledding again.  The cyclic nature of a BPD r/s is challenging, I know, because even during the good times I was waiting for the other shoe to drop.  I used to say, a storm cloud could appear out of a clear blue sky!  I suggest you start with yourself, by paying close attention to your needs and small desires.  What would you like to see happen?  What are your gut feelings about your marriage?  What is the best path for you?  I know these are not easy questions.  Fill us in, when you can.

LuckyJim

I want to spend less time around my wife. period. 

I'm actually happier when we get in such a bad conflict that I get the silent treatment.  I can do whatever I want then!  Go to a bar and get a beer! call and reconnect with friends and family!  read a book!

of course, when she wants to spend time with me (which - I am not exaggerating, if she's not already on the phone with a friend, or busy doing something else will equal like 2-3 hours every night talking about her day, her friends on facebook, etc.), and I request a little time to do something else, or tell her "I'm right in the middle of X, can it wait?" I "never want to spend time with her" or she'll start in on threats... ."husbands who don't take care of their wives needs shouldn't be surprised when she finds someone else who can."

during one of our MC sessions a year or two ago, even the T noted we spend a lot of time together, despite her claims to the contrary. 

Filling a bottomless pit... .

[Lucky Jim]

I'm actually happier when we get in such a bad conflict that I get the silent treatment.  I can do whatever I want then!  Go to a bar and get a beer! call and reconnect with friends and family!  read a book!

Hey Pete, That's a great list of things you like to do on your own.  The trouble is: If you wait for your W to give you permission to do those things, they will never happen, due to her own insecurities.  Let me relate a quick story: I wanted to go to a college football game with some old roommates.  My W enumerated a whole host of reasons why it was not possible for me to attend the game.  Unlike my usual caving in to her demands, I took a different tact and said, Look, I'm going to the game, even if I have to hitchhike!  She said, what about me and the kids?  I said you are welcome to come with me.  They did and we had a great family outing that never would have happened if I had let myself be ruled by her fears.

I guess what I'm saying is that sometimes in a BPD r/s you have to take a ":)amn the Torpedoes" approach, where you're willing to put your intentions ahead of your spouse's insecurities.  Does this sound like something you might be willing to attempt?

LJ

[Red5]

Pete writes:

Hi all... .haven't posted in a while,

... .while abroad, I kinda saw that a lot of the insane outbursts and emotional manipulation are really just my UBPDw's issues, not "cultural" as I suspected, and as she often claimed.

it's been about 3 weeks since we got back, but things have been mostly positive.  

BUT... .of course it wouldn't last... .WHY did I let myself get comfortable? WHY?

The hostility continued, and - this is the thing - really caught me off guard such that I didn't recognize it for what it was.  

... .then you can guess where it goes from here... .everything I said was twisted around and used to attack me.  And now there's door slamming and dozens of nasty text messages... .

ugh.  Just UGH.  I don't have the patience for this.  I can tolerate maybe a half a day of negativity before I start mentally replaying past fights in my head, nasty things she's said and done, and getting really to simply walk out.  this is hell.



Hello Pete, and welcome back!

Yes, I too fall into the ole’ comfort zone from time to time, as a matter of fact, I am slipping into it right now.

I know that things will turn, and its kind of overdue as well, but things have been somewhat quiet round the house for a few weeks, since I returned from work travel, and its “like it never happened” again... .

There have been very minor flare-ups, but I was able to predict/prevent/redirect.

But I can feel the” big one” coming, what’s the trigger you may ask, well pick one ()!

In the coming week, we are to travel a few states south to attend a family member’s memorial service, and u/BPDw is already worried about my own [foo] mother’s possible attendance, as they do not get along, but this is my family, my aunts, uncles, and cousins… so as I made a rule quite some time ago, I will not let BPD’ism’s derail, sabotage, or otherwise prevent me from my own family, period.

I know how it feels, when things are quite calm and quiet, and you may think you are in for smooth seas… and then kaboom, and whoosh!… off her rail she goes… and here we go again, .very exhausting I know !

Hang in there Pete, we are all here listening,

Red5

[PeteWitsend]

Hey Pete, That's a great list of things you like to do on your own.  The trouble is: If you wait for your W to give you permission to do those things, they will never happen, due to her own insecurities.  Let me relate a quick story: I wanted to go to a college football game with some old roommates.  My W enumerated a whole host of reasons why it was not possible for me to attend the game.  Unlike my usual caving in to her demands, I took a different tact and said, Look, I'm going to the game, even if I have to hitchhike!  She said, what about me and the kids?  I said you are welcome to come with me.  They did and we had a great family outing that never would have happened if I had let myself be ruled by her fears.

I guess what I'm saying is that sometimes in a BPD r/s you have to take a ":)amn the Torpedoes" approach, where you're willing to put your intentions ahead of your spouse's insecurities.  :)oes this sound like something you might be willing to attempt?

LJ

I know what you're saying, LJ, and it's not quite that simple though, or at least it would be if those were the only issues.

When I've discussed something like that - eg going to a game - she's okay with it.

But the daily demands of my time, and the dishonest attacks when I want to do something else, e.g. "We NEVER do anything together" or "I wish I had a husband who loved me and wanted to spend time with me."  ... .THAT's not like something she's been able to deal with reasonably, without resorting to threats, fights, silent treatment, etc.

The random hostility... .like what I described above.  I can't deal with that... .having a random Tuesday evening turn into an emotionally charged shouting match,with no warning whatsoever,  and sleepless night leaving me feeling like garbage the next day at work.  

I know that I gave up some of my free time when I got married and had kids.  I can deal with that.  I can't deal with having no free time.

[PeteWitsend]

... .and I can't deal with randomly walking into a buzzsaw when she decides - again with no rhyme or reason - decides "I'm not committed enough" or "I'm not on her side" or "I don't love her enough."

[Lucky Jim]

Hey Pete, I hear you and have been in your shoes, my friend.  Be careful not to JADE, because that usually ends up in one of those circular arguments that goes nowhere.  Also be aware of F-O-G (fear, obligation and guilt) which is how a pwBPD manipulates a Non.  E.g.,  You don't love me = guilt; You're not committed enough = obligation.  It's best to ignore or deflect these types of threats and subtle arm-twisting.  If possible, try to rise above the fray, which is not easy sometimes.  Decline to participate in a shouting match.  You get the idea.

LuckyJim

[formflier]

Yes, I feel I am being pressured to pay this bill; that's why she dropped them in my lap, in an extremely hostile manner, while I was reading to my son, with no advance notice.

on one hand, of course I'd pay to help out family... . 

NOO!     

I haven't read the rest of the post... .but... .

Figure out the values that open your wallet... .stick with them... .regardless...

Trust me... .life will be much simpler.

FF

[formflier]

... .and I can't deal with randomly walking into a buzzsaw when she decides - again with no rhyme or reason - decides "I'm not committed enough" or "I'm not on her side" or "I don't love her enough."

Why listen to this bellicose nonsense at all?

Seriously... .?

Note... .another poster recently used that term... and I've grabbed it... .but it is a perfect description.

bel·li·cose
ˈbeləˌkōs/Submit
adjective
demonstrating aggression and willingness to fight.

What if you didn't do bellicose anymore... .?

FF

[formflier]

  Decline to participate in a shouting match.  

 

[PeteWitsend]

NOO!    

I haven't read the rest of the post... .but... .

Figure out the values that open your wallet... .stick with them... .regardless...

Trust me... .life will be much simpler.

FF

Hey, FF.  Thanks.  I know you warned me before about the MIL situation leading to more drama, when I expressed hope that at least another adult in the situation would "absorb" some of the BPD excesses.

I know what you're saying about the wallet.  BUt in this case though, I really expected a chance to have a discussion about it.  Like if it ends up being a few thousand $$$, maybe our MIL can pay half?  Which of her expenses are we going to pay, and which are on her?  

Instead, She barged into the room while I'm reading to our son, in bed, and dropped the statement that my MIL has a loose crown and needs to see a dentist ; I maybe should've said "let's talk about this later" but I tried to answer, and every word was seized upon to attack me... ."Okay, you can call the dentist... ." "I have to call the dentist?  Why can't you?" or after I say "well, I'm not saying I won't pay... ." "MAYBE YOU will pay?  it's MY MONEY as much as yours" etc. etc.

I honestly don't think the dentist thing was the reason for her losing it; the waves started getting choppy yesterday, unexpectedly, and for totally unrelated reasons.  

I'm just sick of this.  And the fact that she dragged my brother into it, just because he had the misfortune of texting back at the wrong time... .rotten.  

[formflier]

Hey man... .why on earth are you wondering aloud about paying half?  Or $1?

Seriously... .

OK... .this worked for me and it was in line with my values... .perhaps this fits with yours... or not.

My wallet only opens for kind appreciative people... .back up... .I only consider opening my wallet for kind considerate people.  There still needs to be a reason to pay.

Even if it is something that I normally pay for... .that I like to pay for... .if you TELL me to pay for it... .we're done.    If there if FOG... .done

Threats... .done  (with threats... it's done forever... .I take threats that seriously)

So... .if you are "foggy" and later are sincere and do the right thing... .I will consider changing

If you threaten me  "open you wallet and buy me xyz... .or else"... .xyz will never be paid for by me.  never

Rough timeframe:  I separated the final strands of joint finances with my wife (long story... which I will tell later if you want)... .

It was a rough month... .another blow up in early January... .and I think that last blowup was the final extinction burst. 

Dude... I kid you not... .it's been months since my wife was in anyway unkind or unappreciative about my finances.

She asks nicely... .and the few times I've said no or delayed... .she was fine...

Not much will change unless you change...

FF

[PeteWitsend]

Hey man... .why on earth are you wondering aloud about paying half?  Or $1?

Seriously... .

OK... .this worked for me and it was in line with my values... .perhaps this fits with yours... or not.

My wallet only opens for kind appreciative people... .back up... .I only consider opening my wallet for kind considerate people.  There still needs to be a reason to pay.

Even if it is something that I normally pay for... .that I like to pay for... .if you TELL me to pay for it... .we're done.    If there if FOG... .done

Threats... .done  (with threats... it's done forever... .I take threats that seriously)

So... .if you are "foggy" and later are sincere and do the right thing... .I will consider changing

If you threaten me  "open you wallet and buy me xyz... .or else"... .xyz will never be paid for by me.  never

Rough timeframe:  I separated the final strands of joint finances with my wife (long story... which I will tell later if you want)... .

It was a rough month... .another blow up in early January... .and I think that last blowup was the final extinction burst. 

Dude... I kid you not... .it's been months since my wife was in anyway unkind or unappreciative about my finances.

She asks nicely... .and the few times I've said no or delayed... .she was fine...

Not much will change unless you change...

FF

We haven't divided up our finances yet.  I've suggested it a few times and have been met with hostility; she said "Why are we even still married then?"  Good question... .

She's working as well, but only earns about half what I do, although she's at an earlier stage in her career so that % gap will decrease over time. 

I get what you're saying about "demands" to pay for things.  I don't think my situation is completely analogous to yours, but I agree I need to get there at some point.

I need to draw up some boundaries on finances as well; I've been pushed around in this regard.