Husband with BPD/NPD in a long marriage with kids

[Tinap]

Hello!   I am happy to have found this group!  I am married for 27 years!   I have only been with my husband and have had no other romantic relationships!   My relationship and marriage started out nice but since our older son was about 6 years old, we started having challenges about how he treated him and it got worse over the years.  My husband could never understand what I was saying about his anger and unreasonableness.  We have two grown boys, both have their own issues.  The older one has very similar traits to his father who after reading the bpdfamily website, I am convinced about his unofficial diagnosis of BPD/NPD.   Things between us have gotten worse over the years with my insistent of trying to get him to understand or trying to get a normal (empathetic) and reasonable response.   Ironically, he feels the exactly the same way toward me as I do towards him when I tell him what about him I am frustrated about!  We are at a point where I am insisting on taking a break from each other because we constantly get into an argument.  Our main conflict is our older son. My husband does not like his attitude and is very jealous of me protecting him and our relationship.   My husband had a conflict with him since he was 6 years old and had many verbally explosive confrontations with him.   I feel bad for my son, but he also has many traits as his father and is also very frustrating for me to deal with him as an adult now.   He blames us (mainly his father) for anything that is wrong in his life.   Now that I understand BPD/NPD more, I feel conflicted.    I feel bad for my husband but I also don't want to continue to live my life the way it is now - especially with the ongoing conflict between him and our son - I don't see the end!   We have invested a lot in our marriage over the years and if I can find a way to work things out I want to consider it.   Although deep inside I know that I will never get the support, understanding, intimacy, and rewardful partnership I had always wanted.  This is sad, but its just as much sad to see my family fall apart.     Also, since my heart goes out to my son and I want to help him, then I question myself why I can't do the same for my husband!   This is very complicated and its really hard for anyone else to be supportive, especially since my husband tells everyone his version of the stories (mainly facts related to my son).   It's amazing how he can see the facts so differently in a story or pick up or listen to only what he wants to!   As long as I agree with him he is ok, but then I can not really follow through what he wants when it comes to my son, it's not fair to him.    So I feel very stuck.   I am hoping to hear from some people who may have a similar dynamic to mine.   I can go on and on about my situation, but I think this is a good start.   Thank you!

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[NGU]

Hi Tinap.

It definitely is a good start. You're reading about it, you're here and you started writing about your situation.

So you had been married around 21 years when the challenges started with the way he treated your older son. Did the BPD-type traits you've noticed start at this time as well?

It's amazing how he can see the facts so differently in a story or pick up or listen to only what he wants to!   As long as I agree with him he is ok

That is my wife. She does not like me having an opinion about her interests or skills. I can support her and compliment her, but other than that, color commentary annoys her. Plus the selective hearing.

But these characteristics wouldn't be enough for a BPD diagnosis. You also mentioned your husband being verbally explosive. What are some of the other traits?

[RolandOfEld]

Hi Tinap and joining NGU in welcoming you! Coming to the board and sharing your story is a huge first step and you will find support and understanding here.

We have invested a lot in our marriage over the years and if I can find a way to work things out I want to consider it. Although deep inside I know that I will never get the support, understanding, intimacy, and rewardful partnership I had always wanted.

I can fully understand this feeling. I have two young kids with my wife, with whom I have been for 11 years, and that is not an easy thing to walk away from.  I am trying, too but I have already opened my heart to the possibility of a life with someone else if my wife can never fulfill what I need.   

You said your husband tells everyone his version of stories. Who is "everyone" and do they fully believe his side? Whose support do you need the most and how do you think you can start to get it?

Yrs,

~ROE

[Tinap]

Thanks for your input and questions.  I have been with my husband (who was my first boyfriend) for 31 years and married for 27 years.   I was very naive when I was young, I am very positive and optimistic person and come from family environment that is positive.   My husband's traits have always been there but I did not really realize what the are until recent as this past year!   

He has only said sorry to me less then 5 times in my entire life and I can't even remember if he genuinely meant it.   He is a different person with me and our sons then with everyone else outside the house.   He gets angry and is verbally abusive, but he can not confront anyone else.  When he is angry he does not listen or remember what he says.  He stone walls, things of any arguments or questions (from the boys) as disrespect or disagreement, he wants to punish (with consequences) and does not have the ability to connect and teach or motivate or forgive.   

In the last 15 years, we have not resolved one thing when it comes to conflict in parenting.   He blames me for everything, does not take any responsibility and when I do what I believe is necessary then he can criticize and blame.   He has this idea of perfect family but we are not it so he is very disappointed and blames me for ruining his life!   

He has no empathy.  He remembers things, can't let go of anything and when something new happens, he brings up all the old things.   He is always right. He criticizes us and often has his ways of doing things that are better.  He is always putting people we know down to me - finds faults in people and never says anything positive about people.  He is very negative.  He always looks at the glass empty - not even half full.   He regrets the past and lives in fear of the future.  He is never in the present moment.  He has no gratitude, he has many complains and blame for me and the older son for his failed relationships.     These are other characteristics which makes me believe he has BPD/NPD.   

We have a good family and social network.   Everyone thinks of us as a perfect couple, because we are both responsible and have a good presence in the community.   But behind the closed doors, he is a different person.   He always uses facts about my parenting (from his perspective) and our older son to make him and I look bad to our close friends and family - those who now know that there is trouble in our marriage.  He needs validation.   When we tried marriage therapy - he did not want to go and then when he was there, his goal was to get validation for his side and for me to listen to the therapist when it came to something he wanted.   Every time we left the session he was mad at me for saying something in there - and we had an argument. It was not a safe space for me to talk in therapy.    He got nothing out of it - he never looks in the mirror to see how he plays a role in our lives, it's always everyone else who needs fixing.   

I also talk to my close friends but I feel bad talking about his behavior because I don't want to make him look bad.   Plus, my story and his story on the same topic with have such different perspectives, its exhausting to talk about it and I don't want my friends and family to be the jury!   He is very good at twisting the facts to his feelings and having everyone else question me.   For the last 15 years since we never agreed on anything or able to solve a problem, anytime a discussion happens (which is very often as long as he is not feeling good - he has to bring up stuff, make smart comments, or try to make his point at every opportunity ) it can go on for an hour or two, just to rehash everything, no progress and make both of us more upset.   This happens all the time so now I need physical distance (separation) from him to stop this.   Otherwise, I can't give myself a break and clear my head.   

I don't know whose support I need the most ( I would want my partner's support but I don't have that).    I really don't know.   I feel better shutting down from everyone. I don't feel like talking about it with anyone I know anymore - no one has any idea of my complex situation.  They all pull from their lives to give advise - but how can you relate if you are not dealing with BPD/NPD person?   You will give him the benefit of the doubt to be a normal person and then try to find the 50% that I contribute to the conflict and how I can do things better.    Just not feeling it.   Especially when it comes to well being of my older son - who also shows some of the personality traits and I have him in therapy to work out his childhood issues and his current challenges.   I don't want him to unconsciously do things that he was subject to growing up.   I hope this sheds more light in my situation.   Thanks again for your comments.

[Radcliff]

TinaP,

Welcome to bpdfamily.  I'm sorry for all the heartache you are experiencing, but am glad you've found us.  I can personally relate to a decades-long marriage with a teenage sweetheart.  Get comfortable and stick around with us a while!  This is a good place to learn and get support.  Things can improve, but it will take some time.

It sounds like you have done a bit of research on BPD.  Have you read any books on it?

I'm sure in the time that you've had with your husband you've figured out some coping strategies, and I wouldn't be surprised if there's some overlap with what we teach here.  Can you think of any coping tips you'd give to a woman in a similar situation?

On the flip side, can you describe a type of interaction with your husband that you'd most like help with?

WW

[Tinap]

Thank you.  I look forward to learning some strategies here.    I have not read any books yet, but I am about to order one that's recommended for families on this site.   When you ask what kinda of interaction with my husband that I think would most like help with?   Help with what?   Keep things calm or get him to realize he needs help or for me to feel like I am talking to an adult who is there for me regardless?   The only things I can think of and have done are the things that can keep him calm.   The other two - which I desperately want so that I don't have to babysit the situation all the time, I have no idea! I feel they are impossible to get!   So at this point if I make our relationship work then I am compromising.  Knowing that he has mental illness.  And I have not choice nor I can expect certain things from him as a husband.   Its like if my spouse had cancer and can not do certain activity - I would not be upset with him about that.  I would be empathetic towards him and supporting.   Its really hard to apply this logic to BPD/NPD personality.   You can help them at the same time they are hurting you and your children.

I look forward to reading the book and learning more.   I know what I would be signing up for - its crazy!  The alternative at this age is also crazy!   Its no win situation!

[pbnjsandwich]

Hello!   I am happy to have found this group!  I am married for 27 years!   I have only been with my husband and have had no other romantic relationships!   My relationship and marriage started out nice but since our older son was about 6 years old, we started having challenges about how he treated him and it got worse over the years.  My husband could never understand what I was saying about his anger and unreasonableness.  We have two grown boys, both have their own issues.  The older one has very similar traits to his father who after reading the bpdfamily website, I am convinced about his unofficial diagnosis of BPD/NPD.   Things between us have gotten worse over the years with my insistent of trying to get him to understand or trying to get a normal (empathetic) and reasonable response.   Ironically, he feels the exactly the same way toward me as I do towards him when I tell him what about him I am frustrated about!  We are at a point where I am insisting on taking a break from each other because we constantly get into an argument.  Our main conflict is our older son. My husband does not like his attitude and is very jealous of me protecting him and our relationship.   My husband had a conflict with him since he was 6 years old and had many verbally explosive confrontations with him.   I feel bad for my son, but he also has many traits as his father and is also very frustrating for me to deal with him as an adult now.   He blames us (mainly his father) for anything that is wrong in his life.   Now that I understand BPD/NPD more, I feel conflicted.    I feel bad for my husband but I also don't want to continue to live my life the way it is now - especially with the ongoing conflict between him and our son - I don't see the end!   We have invested a lot in our marriage over the years and if I can find a way to work things out I want to consider it.   Although deep inside I know that I will never get the support, understanding, intimacy, and rewardful partnership I had always wanted.  This is sad, but its just as much sad to see my family fall apart.     Also, since my heart goes out to my son and I want to help him, then I question myself why I can't do the same for my husband!   This is very complicated and its really hard for anyone else to be supportive, especially since my husband tells everyone his version of the stories (mainly facts related to my son).   It's amazing how he can see the facts so differently in a story or pick up or listen to only what he wants to!   As long as I agree with him he is ok, but then I can not really follow through what he wants when it comes to my son, it's not fair to him.    So I feel very stuck.   I am hoping to hear from some people who may have a similar dynamic to mine.   I can go on and on about my situation, but I think this is a good start.   Thank you!

I'm so sorry to hear you're having these difficulties.  My father passed away several years ago and I, along with my mother and three siblings had a very difficult time living through it.  For me, personally, it was 50 years experience.  My father passed away several years ago.  Realize that this is a disorder and you have some control in this issue.  We're here if you need us or have questions.

[Radcliff]

I am about to order one that's recommended for families on this site.   

What book did you order?

When you ask what kinda of interaction with my husband that I think would most like help with?   Help with what?   Keep things calm or

Let me ask a question on the "keeping him calm" things.  We all work at this.  Some of our techniques we're pretty happy with, and feel like we could keep up without trouble.  Others feel like we're giving too much, we may or may not realize it, but they just don't feel sustainable.  Can you think of any examples in either category?  That last category is especially interesting, if we're looking at ways to reduce wear and tear on you.

get him to realize he needs help or

This can be a challenge.  Success is possible.  We'll call it an "advanced topic."  The frontal assault on this one almost never works.  Let's wait a bit to address this one.

for me to feel like I am talking to an adult who is there for me regardless?   

This lament is almost universal here.  It's a challenge.  But given that the alternative, as you say, is crazy at this age as well, it's worth a try!

Its like if my spouse had cancer and can not do certain activity - I would not be upset with him about that.  I would be empathetic towards him and supporting.   Its really hard to apply this logic to BPD/NPD personality.   You can help them at the same time they are hurting you and your children.

We talk a lot about empathy for our pwBPD.  The books, for example, "Stop Walking on Eggshells," or "Loving Someone with BPD," help a lot with development of empathy.  This can help us take the situation less personally, which can improve how we feel.  BPD is a mental illness.  Our pwBPD are genuinely having agonizing emotions, even if they feel to us to be off target.  So, go for empathy.  But yes, certainly your comparison to a physical ailment is also one that hits home for us.  Someone with a mental illness wreaking emotional havoc is fundamentally different from a mobility-impaired spouse, for example, who is not damaging anyone, just needing extra support. 

I'm glad you're willing to jump in and learn!  Whatever road you go down, the learning will help you make the best of any situation, and make decisions that are right for you.

WW

[RolandOfEld]

Hi Tinap, just wanted to check in. How are you doing?

~ROE