Thought it was over

[NorthernGirl]

DH was recently in court to answer his uBPDx application for child support for SS25. After reviewing evidence and hearing from uBPDx and DH’s L, the judge ruled that she did not prove that SS25 was unable to work, or that he had been living with her for the years she demanded child support. UBPDx initially signed the order and wrote out a cheque for costs the judge had assigned to her. Along with the cheque, she gave DH’s L a long document with pages of her ‘evidence’ and notes to pass to DH. Her notes begged DH to pay her on moral grounds, even though he had ‘won’ in court. The L advised that DH did not need to read her rant.

Last week UBPDx emailed DH to say she wanted him to destroy the cheque. DH’s L advised him that uBPDx had 10 days to appeal and was still within that so he should destroy the cheque, let his ex know and remind her to go through the lawyer. He did that and then got a blast of additional emails from her demanding he drop off the torn up cheque to her since she asked nicely. Ha! He ignored her emails.

This week DH’s L got a letter from a L saying she is now representing uBPDx on the ‘continuing divorce matters,’ and that all future info must go through her, and that DH should not file anything with the courts until uBPDx determines her next steps.

As we understand it, uBPDx has missed the deadline to appeal, and failed to pay costs. We are waiting to see what she is cooking up now. We presume she is concerned that she filed the wrong assessment of SS25 and so wants to appeal based on that. DH’s L says that isn’t grounds for appeal but I am not so sure it will be that simple.

Extremely frustrating how she can continue to drag this on, leaving us waiting to see what new drama she can create. And continuing to pay a L more. Sigh.

[zachira]

Some people thrive on creating endless drama because they feel so empty inside. There will come a time when the Court will know what is going on, and the Court will put a limit on how much time will be wasted on frivolous appeals and manipulations. This is all about enduring the games, heartbreak, pain, and frustration, until at some point things will start to get better because you continue to be the best person you know how to be no matter what others do. We are here to support you, listen, and welcome you telling us how we can help. There are many people on this Board who are or have been in situations similar to yours.

[ForeverDad]

Appeals (or objections, reconsiderations or whatever) are based solely on the information presented on the record at court, well, as I understand it.  You can't include 'additional' information that wasn't presented during the case.  Generally the most common way for an appeal to be successful is on a technical issue and then the case, or limited aspects of it, is remanded back to the trial court.

Definitely if she appeals the judge will be a bit peeved though he or she may not express public frustration.

Appeals court is different than regular courts which have discretion in their rulings.  This may mean enlisting a lawyer who handles appeals.

If she has exceeded the time limit for an appeal then she should have to provide a pretty good reason for the court to waive the timeliness issue.

[NorthernGirl]

Yes, ForeverDad, our understanding is she can’t just add new information. She tried to do that once DH filed his affidavit. She had SS25 do an affidavit that was page after page of disputes to what DH had said. Some in her handwriting. DH’s L had to go to court to block her including that. When the judge didn’t allow it, she sent it to DH’s L anyway saying she would ask the judge on the day of the hearing to include it. It turned out to be the same judge.

My guess is she will claim she is the poor mom who has been so busy helping SS25 that she couldn’t afford the money and time to get a L the first time but when she realized her error (not getting the right report), she changed her mind. We hope an appeal is thrown out, but will be paying L bills until this is done.

[zachira]

There is such a thing as a frivolous appeal, and the party who has made this appeal can be ordered to pay the legal fees for both parties. This happened to my family in a court case.

[livednlearned]

We hope an appeal is thrown out, but will be paying L bills until this is done.

Oof. I'm so sorry this didn't wrap up and go away, NG

The way an appeal worked in my case was almost like an audit of how the motion/ruling had been litigated.

But there was also a very high bar for the technicalities in how the appeal was filed. To a bizarre degree.

My ex filed an appeal. My appellate L combed through his appeal and showed up in court to point out the technical issues with his appeal, and it got tossed out based on that alone.

My regular L told me I needed to get an appellate L because that type of law is so technical and arcane. It's all about minutiae and fine print and strange almost nonsensical technicalities like font size and margins and allowable characters and whether you part your hair on the left or the right.

Judges are considered supreme witnesses so appellate court does not like to overturn a ruling.

Even so, I feel your pain about the cost and time all of this takes up.

[NorthernGirl]

Oof. I'm so sorry this didn't wrap up and go away

Thanks LnL. DH’s L spoke to the other L yesterday. The other L said it was hard to get the story straight from the conversation with uBPDx. So DH’s L shared the high points of what was in the affidavits and the final order. The other L said her client seemed to think that there was still a chance to appeal because she was self represented and didn’t file the right documents. DH’s L told the other L that wasn’t correct. The order is one line, and just says the judge ruled there were no child support payments required.

Today we get a letter from the other L saying the order was correct but that her client hoped that DH would be willing to waive having her pay costs.

Meanwhile, DH’s legal fees just for his ex’s latest stall tactics will be more than the costs she was supposed to pay in the first place. DH will talk to his L for advice, but my reaction was absolutely not! She needs to pay costs so we can use this when she files her next court documents. Having costs assigned is one way judges make it clear there were no grounds for the issue in the first place.

We’ll see what happens. I am pleased at least it looks as though there won’t be an appeal.

[ForeverDad]

Yes, follow the order.  How many times do we remind ourselves that being nice or whatever isn't reciprocated and is forgotten all too soon.

Odds are the order doesn't have compelling teeth.  Or does the lawyer try to collect from her?  If she chooses not to pay (don't hint that!) he'd probably have to take her to court to attempt collecting.  If he doesn't enforce it promptly, does the order to pay weaken over time?

[NorthernGirl]

Or does the lawyer try to collect from her?  If she chooses not to pay (don't hint that!) he'd probably have to take her to court to attempt collecting.  If he doesn't enforce it promptly, does the order to pay weaken over time?

Good questions ForeverDad. The judge agreed to costs in court, so I think it is enforceable. Last time DH’s L (a different one who specializes in guardianship) said the judge hinted to both lawyers that she would consider costs. If they couldn’t agree on an amount, the judge would have set the amount. The L’s agreed on an amount, and DH’s L put in the order that UBPDx could avoid paying costs forever or until such time as she took DH to court again. UBPDx paid it immediately, clearly sending a message.

We think - based on her comments in court - she plans to take another stab at being named sole guardian of SS23 She says DH is an unfit father, and a judge ruling that would rectify the ‘travesty of justice’ when DH was named sole guardian. We are looking for the courts to name her a ‘vexatious litigant’ but no one seems to know how long that will take. A judge has to make that call, not DH or his L. We want all the back and forth - she writes a cheque and signs the order, then emails to say she takes it back, then hires a L to say stop, then the L says the order is fine, then she asks for the costs to be dropped - to all be included so future judges see how unreasonable and unstable she is and maybe aren’t lenient on her.

DH’s L said the judge, normally a tough guy, went out of his way to let uBPDx talk and talk, likely hoping that she would feel listened to. Sadly, I think it worked.

I will push that the order needs to be followed. 

[livednlearned]

It might be worth asking your L if it's better ex doesn't pay you -- this might help with the vexatious litigant piece.

It would show that she isn't observing prior court orders.

My judge finally filed a vexatious litigant motion, what is referred to in NC as a gatekeeping order.

It didn't prevent ex from filing motions, unfortunately. Some of them got through the clerk of court, which made them active.

I wonder if, next time, your L can use the words vexatious? Or refer to it as legal abuse? Do you have the same judge every time? An L can't ask for a gatekeeping order where I live, but the L can refer to other cases where the behaviors were the same.

At the point you're at, most judges don't want to see either litigant anymore, and doesn't want to see the same case again.

Perhaps your L has some kind of game plan in mind to hint at the vexatious litigant angle, while also being prepared to take another swing at whatever comes your way.

[NorthernGirl]

It might be worth asking your L if it's better ex doesn't pay you -- this might help with the vexatious litigant piece.

Good question. We will ask.

I wonder if, next time, your L can use the words vexatious? Or refer to it as legal abuse? Do you have the same judge every time? An L can't ask for a gatekeeping order where I live, but the L can refer to other cases where the behaviors were the same.

Part of the challenge is DH has to deal with two different L’s. This latest one is handling issues based on the divorce agreement, which we hope is the last issue from that. The other L deals with guardianship issues. We kept the guardianship L informed so she is aware what happened this time round. We expect uBPDx will try for guardianship again based on comments she made at this hearing. I will remember to ask if we can start using the language you suggested if we are back in court again.

It is unlikely it will be the same judge - our system has judges who cover both family and criminal law. Each week someone selects the judges for the next week’s hearings based on workload and estimated time for hearings. It really is luck of the draw who you get.

Thanks for the ideas! Always nice to know I can come here but sad that others have had to experience the same.