S3’s behavior towards me is changing?

[Before you can make things better, you have to stop making them worse...]

Hi everyone. I haven’t been able to be on here as much as I’d like to lately. Recent priorities have made it difficult. I’m looking forward to getting this stuff out of the way, moving forward and resuming my participation here on the boards.

Anyway, I believe that my sons behavior is starting to change towards me. Previously, when I would pick him up from his new daycare, he was pretty ecstatic to see me. He would have me pick him up, and he would give me tight neck hugs telling me “I love you daddy!”. The last two times that I have picked him up, He will smile, acknowledge that Daddy is there, then his tone will change. He’s happy upon immediately seeing me, but then he goes into how he wanted mommy to pick him up. He runs from me, and I have to entice him to come with me. The daycare staff is acting a little distant as well. They were very friendly at the start, but I think I feel that waning.

Do I ask the staff if my ex has made comments to them or had discussions about me? Or do I just show up when I’m supposed to, be the same polite guy every time and tough it out?

More importantly, if the ex is attempting alienation, how do I prove this in court? I let her know about the changes in his behavior, and that if she was purposely manipulating the situation, that I would take her to court. I am quite certain that she doesn’t want to go to court. Back when things were really heated, she would threaten court all of the time. When I started to convince her that a lot of stuff about her would come out in the open, she cooled down about it. However, I hate this game. I guess my question is about trying to prove PA in court. Any help is appreciated.

[JNChell]

Hi everyone. I haven’t been able to be on here as much as I’d like to lately. Recent priorities have made it difficult. I’m looking forward to getting this stuff out of the way, moving forward and resuming my participation here on the boards.

Anyway, I believe that my sons behavior is starting to change towards me. Previously, when I would pick him up from his new daycare, he was pretty ecstatic to see me. He would have me pick him up, and he would give me tight neck hugs telling me “I love you daddy!”. The last two times that I have picked him up, He will smile, acknowledge that Daddy is there, then his tone will change. He’s happy upon immediately seeing me, but then he goes into how he wanted mommy to pick him up. He runs from me, and I have to entice him to come with me. The daycare staff is acting a little distant as well. They were very friendly at the start, but I think I feel that waning.

Do I ask the staff if my ex has made comments to them or had discussions about me? Or do I just show up when I’m supposed to, be the same polite guy every time and tough it out?

More importantly, if the ex is attempting alienation, how do I prove this in court? I let her know about the changes in his behavior, and that if she was purposely manipulating the situation, that I would take her to court. I am quite certain that she doesn’t want to go to court. Back when things were really heated, she would threaten court all of the time. When I started to convince her that a lot of stuff about her would come out in the open, she cooled down about it. However, I hate this game. I guess my question is about trying to prove PA in court. Any help is appreciated.

[Turkish]

What's your custody schedule? Equal time?

I had equal time starting February of 2014 even the kids were 1.5 and just 4 and my ex left the home to be with her beau. I went through versions of this until just this year,  mostly with D5, who figured out she was a girl like Mommy when she was 3. Then she preferred her mom,  often asking to go to her home, nervous calls at night.  It was hard not to take personally.

Hard to say here, but this could be normal. 

I don't know how you are,  but I'm pretty demonstrative with the physical affection. I also always made sure to look them fully in their faces and tell them I loved them.  They still melt.  D5 (6 next week!) Still prefers her mom,  and I see it mostly when we are all together,  for lunch,  say (every other week). But at least the frantic calls at bedtime to their mom finally stopped.

The staff is aware of the custody order,  yes?

[JNChell]

What's your custody schedule? Equal time?

It’s just been upped to 13 days per month. It’s not court ordered. I’ve been slowly chipping away to get as much as I can with him.

I’ve wondered about it with him only being 3, but I can’t rely on that alone in a situation like this. He had a complete meltdown a couple of months ago. It lasted close to an hour. He layed on his belly and screamed. He punched what was in front of him. I got it on video. I tried to intervene, but he was aggressive towards me when I tried, so I just sat near and let him exhaust himself. I don’t know if that was the right thing to do. There hasn’t been an episode like that since.

I’m trying to be a good father and do what I feel is right and what is instinctual. I’m afraid his mom is going to try to undermine and ruin that. My T tells me to be consistent with him. It’s hard to not get rattled when I show up to get him, and he runs from me because he wants mommy.

[Fie]

Might be that this has nothing to do with alienation. Maybe it's something else.
My daughter used to show a preference for her dad until some years ago. It was painful sometimes, but I never reacted to it.
Funnily recently she brought this up herself. She said: I always loved you as much you know ! But I felt sorry for him !  (It is true that I got it more 'together' than him so maybe she noticed)
I tried to get her to explain, but she was not really able to, so I didn't really get what she meant. I did get however that my initial worries had been for nothing...

[JNChell]

Hi, Fie! Thanks for posting.

Might be that this has nothing to do with alienation. Maybe it's something else.

I really hope that this is the case. I worry about it often. Although it has pretty much dissipated up to this point, she has had a pattern of threatening to keep him from me, and has used him as leverage in the past. My worry with that behavior ending is that it may have been replaced by an angle of alienation. I hope it’s nothing more than a worry.

Regardless of where his mother and I stand, I always try to convey to him how much mommy loves him when it’s appropriate or necessary. I just wish she was capable of reinforcing that to him about me on her end. Thank you for chiming in. I hope you have a nice weekend.

[Fie]

I always try to convey to him how much mommy loves him

Funny you say that. I did the same and lately,  I have been wondering why I did that. Isn't it some form of codependency, of stepping in for others where it is not necessary ? I think I did it because I saw my daughter's father struggle with empathy and such, also towards her. So I sometimes told her I thought he was a good dad. To not make her feel bad - and overall probably to show her that yes we separated but she would always have us both.

I'm not so sure anymore, about if I should have done that. Was he a good dad ? Maybe, but maybe not. And if not ? Didn't this invalidate her feelings of him (maybe) not being such a good dad ?

Why are you doing it ?
On top of it, you are saying there is some alienation going on. Why not emphasizing that you love him ? In stead of saying mum loves him ? Mum can speak up about her own feelings if she wants to ?

[Panda39]

What's your custody schedule? Equal time?

It’s just been upped to 13 days per month.

Could it maybe be simply the change in schedule? Or he sees you more so the enthusiasm has mellowed?

I would not throw "parental alienation" out there but would talk with the daycare staff about the change you see.  They are experienced and could probably give you a good idea if his behavior is "normal" for his age or not and give you some strategies if they see a difference in him too.

Frankly I don't see parental alienation here, but I'm not a Professional and you know your son best.

Panda39

[Mustbeabetterway]

I understand why this raises questions for you given your separation from your son’s mom.  I do know that it is normal for children to go through these passing phases. He’s still very young and will go through many changes as time goes by.   Sometimes preferring Mom and sometimes Dad.  I remember when our daughter would race me to the car to sit in the front seat beside her dad .   

How would you know if his mom’s behavior is behind the change, or not?  I don’t think there is any way to be sure.   Children naturally love both of their parents.  I agree with your therapist to be consistent and dependable.  That is a winning strategy.

Hang in there.  I admire your determination to be a loving father to your son. 

[Turkish]

Regardless of where his mother and I stand, I always try to convey to him how much mommy loves him when it’s appropriate or necessary

What's the context when you tell him this?

A few years ago, my ex told me that she told the kids how great a Daddy I was and a good dad. It might have been when they were mad at me,  I don't remember. I told her that in some situations,  it might be invalidating them.  If they were mad at me,  then they were mad at me.  I'll deal with it when I get them back.  My time is my time and is rather we focus on that and interact as our family unit.

Two years ago, D6 was saying that she wanted to marry S8. He said that they couldn't do that because they were siblings. I said that I hoped they would marry good people who treated them well. Then S6 said, "I wouldn't marry someone like Mommy." I knew why, but I sled him why.  "Because Mommy punched [step-dad] and [step-dad] didn't call the cops." Talk about a cringe worthy moment!

I said something like, "it's sad when we see people hurt others, and I'm sorry you had to see that." Kind of a judgement of her,  but not blatant. I could have gone negative for sure... .or the other way. I acknowledged his feelings and we moved on.  

My advice is to focus on your time,  leave his mom where she is,  and if it comes up,  validate his feelings as neutrally as possible. The tools are here,  SET and the like. This is a great book as well. It helped me fine tune my validation skills:

The Power of Validation (for parents) - Karyn D. Hall, PhD

T

[Fie]

@Turkish,

Then S6 said, "I wouldn't marry someone like Mommy." I knew why, but I sled him why.  "Because Mommy punched [step-dad] and [step-dad] didn't call the cops." Talk about a cringe worthy moment!

I said something like, "it's sad when we see people hurt others, and I'm sorry you had to see that."

I'm impressed. By both you and your son.

[JNChell]

Turkish, the context is almost always this. I pick him up from daycare. He’ll say that he wants mommy. I’ll tell him that he’ll see mommy tomorrow, or in X amount of days. He says he won’t. I tell him he will, and that mommy misses him and loves him very much. That’s basically how it goes.

I’m afraid that the kids (S3 & D8), she has a daughter from another relationship, will have to witness things that you’ve described. I’ve had discussions with my best friend about her ending up with the wrong person, and said wrong person knocking the hell out of her. I worry for her as well, but the kids come first. I won’t apologize for that. I wish I still had access to D8. There was a point where she and I were bonding and breaking ground. I’m afraid of what the future holds for her now. Thank you, Turkish.