BPD Sibling accused me of physical and verbal abuse

[virginia04]

I highly suspect a loved one of mine is suffering from BPD. Everything fits (the six questions to ask yourself in this article in particular resonate https://www.helpguide.org/articles/mental-disorders/helping-someone-with-borderline-personality-disorder.htm).

I am currently being shut out from her after a blow-up event where she falsely accused me of physical and verbal abuse. The short story goes like this: (1) BPD sibling blantently lied at a family-oriented social function, (2) BPD sibling doubled down on her lies when called out on lying by continuing to claim it was true, (3) BPD sibling tried to flip the narrative by claiming others in the group were being petty, cruel and malicious gossips (they weren't) resulting in everyone feeling like crap and ruining the social function, (4) when I tried to tactfully and separately talk to her in private, BPD sibling blew up, and spewed verbal venom ("I don't care that you're my sister", and (5) BPD sibiling doubled down further after the fact by lying to mutual loved ones claiming I physically abused her during this confrontation. Now she refuses to answer calls, texts, etc. claiming that she needs space and distance to heal from my so-called abuse.

How do I even start to heal when she won't talk to me? All I've ever wanted for her in life is to be happy and feel loved. This is heartbreaking for me and my parents, not to mention her niece and nephew who are collateral damage in this heartbreak.

[baylady]

I could have written the same scenario for about my uBPDsis.  It is very sad.  She and I have been mostly NC now for over eight years, occasionally seeing each other at family functions, which usually result in some sort of drama.  I wish I had some good advice for mending fences.  Any time I have reached out, I am met with coldness.  I see a therapist to help me with setting boundaries and no longer reach out.  I occasionally receive some sort of hate email or message from her and even her husband (her newest enabler).  Mostly I have, with the help of my therapist and my husband, have gotten fairly good at ignoring them.  Responding just escalates things. 

How long have these issues been going on with your sister? 

[virginia04]

If I'm being totally honest, she's been this way forever and we've never had the best relationship because of it. I've typically just bit my tongue and tried to make the times we're together as smooth and drama free as possible. This particular social-function was of high emotional significance to me and a lot of others, so it was really hard not to say something. And I tried to come from a place of "I'm worried about you, are you OK, we love you" and got this in return.  I see a therapist for myself, but all of my attempts (with the therapists guidance) to reach out with contact or suggestions or strategies have gone unanswered. It crushes me that she doesn't seem to care about her niece and nephew. The answer may be what you are describing, it just saddens me... .we grew up in a wonderful, close family blessed in every way imaginable. It's sad to be in this dysfunctional place.

[Harri]

Hi Virginia and welcome to the board!  I am sorry that you are going through such painful times with your sister.  It is hard when everything you have ever tried fails to keep our pwBPD from staying on the same trajectory or self defeat. 

Generally when we are split black, there is little value in trying to communicate with them.  They are convinced that their experience is accurate and the truth and it does not matter how much proof you have.  They generally won't see or hear it.  At that point, you can use other coping strategies (more on this below).
 

I've typically just bit my tongue and tried to make the times we're together as smooth and drama free as possible.

If your sister has been like this most of her life, chances are you have been doing this all your life, just to survive and try to keep sanity in the family.  We have several tools here that teach communication strategies that can help decrease the conflict and help you to emotionally disengage and eventually be able to be yourself when you are around her rather than shutting things down.  I would not recommend using tools at this point if your sister is still dysregulated but perhaps you can use this period of no contact to learn about them.  There are several and the easiest one is Don't Jade.  JADE stands for justify, argue, defend explain.  When we do that, the pwBPD will often feel invalidated which can just escalate the conflict and we get into circular conversations with no ending.  Another aspect of that is to protect yourself.  Often when we defend or try to explain it is taken as an admission or proof that we are guilty.  I always think of it as preserving my self-respect- for me JADEing feels like begging.  Nope!

How are you with boundaries?  Have you discussed that with your T?  We have a few articles on Boundaries and Values and Boundary examples

Talk with your T about this next part:  When accused of physical abuse, I think it is best to set a boundary where you will not be alone with her.  It is a matter of safety for you.  This is not something you need to communicate to your sister.  Boundaries are about us, changing or regulating what we do in response to their bad behaviors.  They are about self protection.

We have a lot more articles in the Lessons section over on the right side of the page and in our Library section of this site.  As you share more of your story we can guide you to articles that are specific to your situation.

It crushes me that she doesn't seem to care about her niece and nephew.

Are you referring to your kids?  What sort of support, other than your T and here do you have as you deal with the latest with your sister?  A lot of times, when a person is dysregulating they can't really see anything but their own pain and their own view of events.  She may not be rejecting her niece and nephew, but rather, not really seeing them and the consequences of her own behavior.

Things can and often do get easier to deal with Virginia.  We have many people here who can relate.  Many with siblings with BPD or BPD traits and all with a family member with many of the same issues.  I am glad you found us and glad you posted!

[virginia04]

Thank you for this response. I really like ":)on't Jade" -- I have never heard that expression before. Boundaries are not so much of a problem (we live in different states) but I do have an issue not spending a lot of time and energy thinking about this.

Your insight regarding my kids is particularly spot on. I think she is too wrapped up in her own pain and view of events to consider a lot of the consequences of her action (not just my kids, extended family too). This board has definitely already been a helpful resource. I'm sad because while I always knew something like this was a possibility, I had hoped it would never come to a blow up/no-contact breaking point that we've reached.

I've got a great support network -- my husband in particular has been amazing. My parents, however, have taken this particularly hard and I've had to try to put up some distance which makes me sad.

[hellebore1]

For years I was in the same spot with an extremely volatile, unstable likely-BPD half sibling ("A" who told similar lies about me, my dad, my now-husband and caused huge drama at every family event.  (Most of my very large family is NC with "A" and I have been for the past 15 years.)  If it makes you feel any better, remember this is not about you and your kids - in my experience those with BPD seem not to be capable of empathizing with other people, in my case this started very early.  When I was about ten years old "A" went nearly a calendar year without speaking to me - why my mother allowed this is a story for another day.  What a ten year old child could have done to provoke total ostracization from her much older sibling is questionable.

They're simply... .not capable of putting themselves in the place of others.  The lies and distortions I'm sure hurt terribly, but remember this not about you and there's likely nothing you could have done to prevent it or even make it any less severe.  I wonder if any of your family members would be open to attending therapy to coordinate your responses to your sister and set some boundaries. 

I wish I had some advice for you to stop thinking about it - honestly after I went NC with "A" it still took me years and years to get over it, trying to second guess what I could or couldn't have done differently, particularly since the family rift was really hard on our mother.  (The events precipitating my NC are a long story which I'll tell sometime... .trust me it was either that or entering the mental hospital myself.  I had a series of personal and work related tragedies which "A" tried to use to get our mother to exploit me for money... .seriously, long story.)  Fortunately after a while of trying to deal with "A" on her own Mom went to therapy and now things between me and Mom are much better, and my help with her dealing with "A" is more practical concerns and less dealing with dramatic outbursts. 

In my mom's defense, dealing with a BPD child I'm sure is extremely difficult. Your parents have likely come to rely on you to help them manage your sister, but her care is not your responsibility.  Perhaps if you keep your distance your parents will realize professional help is needed for themselves, even if agnosognosia prevents your sister from getting it for herself. 

Hang in there.

[Harri]

Hi Virginia!  Glad you like don't JADE.  It is a wonderful way to stop circular arguments and keep yourself sane and centered.

What sort of things are your parents doing that prompted you to pull back?

It sounds like you are struggling with excessive ruminations maybe?  If so, here is a workshop article you may find helpful Dealing with Ruminations   A lot of us struggle with excessive thoughts and worrying about our situation.  For me, a lot of it was tied to FOG- Fear, Obligation and Guilt and poor differentiation of self.  The latter part involved me getting upset when my mother was upset, feeling responsible for her feelings and feeling like I needed to step in and fix them for her.  Being afraid and overly occupied/obsessed with her reactions and constantly running through scenarios so I could anticipate and prepare and hopefully ward off any problem.  It is tied to growing up in an environment where a mentally ill person, in my case, my mother, was the center of everything and we all functioned around her.  Learning to detach emotionally in part meant me learning to tell the difference between her stuff to own and manage and my stuff to own and manage.  I thought of it as a personal wall and when I felt the need to step over that wall and fix, manage or control my mother or the environment I was getting into stuff that was not mine to own.  It was really none of my business.

I don't know if any of the above applies to you but see if anything resonates.  As Hellebore (  ) said, it can take a while to work through all of this.  It does get better though. 

[virginia04]

Wow, this reply is also pretty great. I’ve totally been struggling with excessive rumination. I love the article above pulling and naming files (it reminds me of the movie Inside Out that my kid loves).

With my parents, you raise an interesting point — I think there has been a pattern of them relying on me for support. And to ask me to try to help them make sense of the nonsensical.

Hellebore, “not capable of putting themselves in the place of others” is it in a nutshell. Total lack of empthy and extreme self-importance.

The thing that is really getting at me at the moment, this whole narrative that she’s pushing basically is an attempt to re-write our shared history and childhood. Like, she is getting a kick out of pushing a narrative that me and my mom were so horrible to her all her life to excuse her pain. It just makes no sense to me. Maybe I need to stop trying to reason with someone who is delusional and escapes reason? Hard for me though, professionally I work in a space that is dependent on fact finding/weeding out the truth. This tension between reality and her perception is driving me nuts. (So... .did any of that make sense? Ah!)

[virginia04]

Oh, and we are all attempting to use a group therapist at the moment, but it’s still too early stage to know what’s going to happen. She’s still refusing to talk to me, so I’m not entirely optimistic a therapist will be able to help break down that wall. I’m mostly feeling like there is a high lieklihood that this effort ends with her yelling at this therapist for saying the wrong thing and shutting it down.

[Harri]

LOL, we have a pretty extensive Library here with all sorts of articles to look though.  You should check it out when you can.  I am glad the article helped. 

With my parents, you raise an interesting point — I think there has been a pattern of them relying on me for support. And to ask me to try to help them make sense of the nonsensical.

You could pass along some of the articles we have here to help them.  You might even want to share the site though that could be very awkward.  I do not share the site with friends and definitely not family just so I can have a place to come and be me without having to edit myself.  They are free to google and find it all on their own. 

Like, she is getting a kick out of pushing a narrative that me and my mom were so horrible to her all her life to excuse her pain.

Perhaps she is also trying to justify her behavior?

For therapy, it is you, your sister and your parents?  I agree that chances are high your sister will decide to quit but that does not mean you and your parents can't stay in it.  I don't mean that you are disordered or ill but you may get help with how to interact with each other and get them to be more independent in dealing with your sister.  It can also help you with the anxiety and ruminations and making sense of things.  Just a thought.

Maybe I need to stop trying to reason with someone who is delusional and escapes reason?

Yes.  What do you think is underlying your need to get her to see reason?

[virginia04]

You are right, it is an attempt to justify her behavior.

So, I called a therapist to see myself the Monday morning after this fall out. She is really great and helpful and pushes me to see that so much of this isn’t in my control and tries to remind me to accept this as reality (even if it sucks).

Recently, after months of no contact from BPD sister, she sent an email suggesting we see a family therapist together. We have not all been in a room together yet, just been having individual conversations. I’m not feeling optimistic, however, based on initial feedback from the therapis on how wildly different our accounts are on everything. But we will see I guess.

[HolyGhost]

I am in a similar situation.  I am new to BPD behavior.  My son married a woman 5 years ago.  She seemed great.  Our entire family loved her.  She got pregnant very early in the marriage.  Four months into the marriage, a light switch flipped.  She became a very different person.  After a wedding celebration party my husband and I had for them, she accused me of saying horrible things to her friends (who I met for the very first time) at the party: "I believe DIL is mentally ill; she is going to be a horrible mother; her baby is going to develop mental illness."  I never said anything of the sort, particularly to people I'd never met before.  As far as my husband and I knew that evening, it was an amazing party.  Our son called the next morning with these terrible accusations.  He also was at a loss to explain all this.  Over the course of 8 months of minimal communication, we were able to work through the situation with the help of a good therapist.  Over the course of their 5 year marriage, my son has gone on to become a master enabler.
Fast forward to Nov. 2017, now they have a second child.  We've tip-toed around her this entire time, trying not to upset the egg-cart. It hasn't been easy, but we have gotten to see our grandchildren. Then, out of the blue, DIL comes to our home (with our son) and rages about the very same accusations from wedding celebration all over again.  I was so shocked, I immediately used JADE.  She ended up storming out of our house and we haven't spoken since.  My son says that unless I "admit what I said" and apologize sincerely, there is no hope. We have been kept from our two grandchildren for 6 months now - no holidays, birthday celebrations, etc. My husband and I returned to our therapist who had been working with us previously (he had suggested early on that this sounds like a classic case of BPD).  About a month into this, DIL wants to meet with our therapist.  We agreed that would be fine and they have met a few times.  Now she says she'd like to meet with me, with the therapist.  She has stalled and changed the date several times.  I've done some pre-work with the therapist.  His goal is to get us to a point where we can see the grandchildren.  He says it's going to be a rough meeting and the hitching point will be "what I said at the wedding celebration". 
Like you, I wish I could be stronger in my own sense of self.  I'm a very nice person and would never say anything she's asserted.  I never even had a thought like this in my head.  Our entire family loved her.  This has strained relationships between my son & daughter, great-grandparents, aunts/uncles, and cousins.  DIL is so set in her accusations that I have no idea how I'll possibly respond without compromising my own integrity.  There have been many accusations over these past years, none quite as awful as this first one.  It's also been suggested to me that I not be alone with DIL for fear of what she might come up with.
The break away from her has been good for me.  My nerves are frazzled. My sadness is related to grieving not seeing our son and young grandchildren (4 & 1 yrs.).  Logically, I know this is coming from her own damage that occurred throughout her young life.  But the idea of never having a relationship is heart-breaking.  It consumes my thoughts most days (and nights!).  I will read Dealing with Rumintions. 
Like you, I'm not sure the joint meeting with the therapist will be helpful.  But I feel I must make the attempt.  It's sad but also helpful to know there are people out there going through these same hurtful experiences.  Your story and the responses to your posts are enlightening.

[Panda39]

For therapy, it is you, your sister and your parents?  I agree that chances are high your sister will decide to quit but that does not mean you and your parents can't stay in it.  I don't mean that you are disordered or ill but you may get help with how to interact with each other and get them to be more independent in dealing with your sister.  It can also help you with the anxiety and ruminations and making sense of things.  Just a thought.

Hi,
I wanted to pop in and encourage therapy for you and your parents with or without your sister.  I agree with Harri's comments above I think that you all getting on the same page about your sister's behaviors and strategies to negotiate them would be beneficial, as well as taking a look at the whole family dynamic that has developed around your sister and her behaviors.

I'm on these boards because my SO has an uBPDxw and he and I have been members here together and it did help us get on the same page so I would consider sharing the site with your parents if you think they would be open to it.  But yes you are sharing your thoughts and feeling here so if it is uncomfortable then don't.  I felt very comfortable sharing with my SO, and we actually gained insight into each other's perspectives that were helpful to us and led to further discussion in the real world.

If you don't want to share this site, maybe referring your folks to a couple books could be a good place to start instead.  Two that I particularly like about BPD are... .

Stop Walking on Eggshells: Taking Your Life Back When Someone You Care About Has Borderline Personality Disorder
by Randi Kreger
 
Overcoming Borderline Personality Disorder: A Family Guide for Healing and Change
by Valerie Porr, M.A.

Panda39

[virginia04]

Thank you for the book recommendations!

HolyGhost, in a similar boat over here. I suspect BPD sister wants some grand apology from all of us for all the ways we’ve wronged her over the years. I’m not even sure where there is common ground at this point, because how can you apologize for things that aren’t true and even if we could... .then what?

Hang in there! I’m sorry for the impact on your grandkids. What if you stick to neutral get together at parks and museums that minimize opportunity for blow up?

[HolyGhost]

I would love that but DIL is in isolation mode.  I "don't deserve" to see the grandkids because of the terrible things I've said.  I agree it's difficult to apologize for something you've never said.  I'm trying to figure out how to handle this and realistically prepare for the fact that this is her last big play.
Hoping the best for your situation.

[Pina colada]

Hi virginia04 and I just want to say I am sorry for the heartache you are going through with your sister. Harrie has brought up so many good points... .I just want to add you are not alone.  My family has had to deal with BPD sister our entire life.  BPD sis is now in late 60's (I am the youngest in our family) and sadly mom and dad are gone but she only seems to have gotten worse.  This board helps and so does reading about BPD and NPD and Cluster B disorders.  I am also in therapy and my therapist is great!  Remember, your sister is mentally ill and does not think rationally like you and I and others not affected with a personality disorder.  Trying to get a disordered individual to either admit they are wrong or that they are being unreasonable is virtually impossible as they will never take ownership of their part in the problem.  They turn tables and play victim... .Hang in there and keep reading and posting! 

[hellebore1]

Maybe I'm a good person to talk to about this, come to think of it.  I'll try to explain a little about my own family dynamic without writing a novel, here goes.

My half sib "A" is the product of my mother's first marriage.  She left his dad when A was small (I'm in my late 40s now, A is a few years older), partly because of a mental illness A’s dad had I'm told, and married my dad.  

I guess there's really no way to tell this story in any sort of chronological order, but A figured out pretty early that manipulating my mother in trying to make her feel guilty for leaving A's father and moving to another state b/c of my own father's job was a bottomless mine in terms of getting his own way.  So he invented a narrative in which my dad was an evil monster.  More backstory: my mom got married way too early, age 19, again to A’s father, a person with mental illness.  I don’t know what kind, only bits and pieces (he was wealthy when Mom married him, heavy drinker, molested his daughter, A’s other half sister.)  Mom's own father was a fall in the gutter active alcoholic, she says she married A’s dad as a means of getting out of the house.  Her birth family was poor, it was a rural area with limited access to college/jobs, I’m sure it’s true.  No doubt Mom made mistakes when A was very young, although I have no way of knowing what originally may have triggered A's BPD.  Later on A’s bio-dad wasn’t in the picture much, they’d visit every three or four years and bio-dad gave A a flashy expensive car for his 16th birthday, but I don’t remember ever meeting him.

Honestly I have to keep reminding myself where I am because most of what I say about A's behavior sounds so insane to other people that I just keep it to myself.  He's never been formally diagnosed, because agnosognosia, but his behavior is classic BPD, or so I was told by a therapist.  Even though I've gone to therapy I'm still not able to talk about what happened with my family without worrying people will will accuse me of lying or exaggerating, but others dealing with BPD likely know exactly what I'm talking about.

For years A told everyone my father was an abusive monster, even though there were no concrete instances he could point to for illustration. Dad was not a saint; he was a damaged person who could be inflexible and difficult, but never abused anyone physically, never locked anyone in a closet, never did any of the things you read about as classic symptoms of child abuse.  He never laid a hand on me (his daughter) and I don’t believe he would ever have dreamed of it.  From my perspective A actually got away with murder - he could do things like stay out late that I was never allowed to do.  He wasn’t disciplined for things like I was - my mom actually would not let my dad say anything to A if he lost or broke something when I would have been grounded. If we bought a box of candy bars I might get one for dessert but then my mom would take the rest of the box and sneak it under A's bed in the middle of the night. Mom’s own issues in which she had been trained to accept the unacceptable growing up in an alcoholic household plus A’s burgeoning mental illness seemed to fit neatly together, unfortunately (although I’m leaving out a lot of detail here by necessity, maybe someday I really will write a book!)

The real trouble in terms of drugs and suicide attempts started when A was about 16 - I was probably nine or ten.  At that point my mom went just about frantic in hooking into A’s drama, how would we keep him safe and stop him from spiraling out was the topic of conversation a lot of the time, as I remember.  There was pretty much always something, from him failing at school to getting fired from the kind of after school jobs kids get - y’all know what happens with BPD teens.  I remember feeling like there wasn’t much I’d be able to do to get anyone to notice what was going on with *me*, by the time I myself was a teen my parents were locked into a lot of fighting as A’s behavior went further and further afield.  (As it turns out I have a pretty severe case of ADHD which wasn’t diagnosed till I was almost 40.  I realize this condition wasn’t as commonly known years ago, but part of me will always wonder what my life would have been like had I helped with it as a young person… I really struggled in school, thought I was dumb though evidence was the contrary, didn’t apply to any colleges but our local b/c I had low self esteem for being “dumb,” was amazed when I did well… turns out rote memorization and other things ADHD kids struggle with aren’t such a big part of college education.  Wish I’d aimed higher.)

My parents eventually divorced, which I attribute in large part to problems with A, and around the same time my dad developed a rare immune system disorder likely linked to stress. He did OK for a while, and in the meantime I moved as far away as I could get from my family.  A moved away too.  Fast forward about a decade.  I wound up losing a very prestigious job I had worked hard for in my new town around the same time Dad’s illness turned terminal.  I wound up moving back to my folks’ hometown, to which Dad had returned when my folks divorced, to take care of him.  

Again, Dad was a difficult person and didn’t make things easy in terms of treatment… he lived in a cabin far from town and wouldn’t move closer to the doctors so I did a lot of driving him around.  The disease was drawn out and he suffered a lot.  Mom moved back to the hometown too, and I found myself in a new place away from the support system I had built, dealing with a complicated adult children of alcoholic situation on the part of many of my aunts and cousins which I hadn’t had to address as a child since we moved away.  :)ad finally passed.  A had been NC with my mom for about five years, but chose the month of Dad’s death to not only reconcile with her but also to move back to our hometown and - of course - move in with my mom.  

My folks had been on pretty good terms after the divorce, with Mom helping me take Dad to the hospital and even sit with him over his final weeks.  I knew - absolutely knew - that when A came back Mom would go completely back into his corner, it would all change and Dad would again be cast as a villain and that I would be told I was a fool for being sad he was dead, for having given up my life to care for such an evil person, etc.  

What I predicted happened.  And worse - my dad left me some money which A of course manipulated my mom into trying to pressure me to give to A.  Truthfully I’d have been glad to share but the way he went about it…threats and intimidation… it just felt wrong to be forced into giving Dad’s money to A when he’d told such lies about my dad.  (A is a computer programmer, I'm told he's good at it and it's also solo work that enables him to avoid being around other people, so the choice wasn't my giving him money vs. him being in the street.)  Around the same time I met a great guy to whom I’ve now been married for 15 years… to whom A took a dislike and also manipulated my mom into trying to make me break up because my fiancee was certainly after my money, right?  

I finally had enough.  When I decided to go NC with A, my mom just lost it.  She told me that if I married my fiancee she’d cut me off.  Whether that was a bluff or not I don’t know, but can tell you that all these years later after mom got some good therapy, they’re great friends.  Of course A’s version of events was that this was all greed on my part and I went NC b/c I didn’t want to give him the money he was “entitled” to.  As though the previous (at that point) 30 years of living with his raging BPD or his expert manipulations of my only remaining parent or trying to break me up with fiancee, etc. had nothing to do with it.

I write all this out to sort of let you know where I’m coming from in telling you I completely understand what it’s like to have a parent make you responsible for helping manage your sibling’s BPD. Since my mom was so wrapped up in A’s distortions, his dad wasn’t around and my dad was being painted as some sort of monster, Mom convinced herself - and me, when I was too young to know better - that dealing with A was her responsibility alone and that I was a “good child” when I helped her with it.  Sometimes the assistance would be practical in helping her find him when he’d left another suicide note, but a lot of the time it was listening to her vent about him and propping her up emotionally… telling her “this is just how he is” when he’d ruined another holiday (he used to specialize in poison pen letters), made a scene at an event important to others, etc.

When I was growing up almost all Mom’s energy went to A, and after a while, to the increasingly volatile fights she’d have with my dad. Police were called, more than once. I wasn’t around for the event that eventually precipitated their divorce, but I’m told it had to do with a physical altercation between my dad and A.  My dad always denied it and I don’t believe A’s narrative, so who knows what really happened.

My intention in coming on this board is that it was so hard for me to find help as the sibling of a BPD, since so many resources are for parents or children of BPD, and I thought I might have some insights that would help others.  However, the past few days thinking about this and now writing about it, I realize this has profoundly affected my life to the point I won’t ever truly be free of it, even though I’ve gone NC with A.  He and my mom are both still alive, I’m sure A will make things all about him when my mom passes (I’m prepared to hire as many attorneys as I have to, since the rest of my large family save one elderly aunt is also NC with A.)  I developed a couple of unhealthy behaviors myself from dealing with the stress around the time Dad passed that have been hard to manage… I don’t have children with my husband, partly because dealing with all this has been so exhausting and it came to a head just as my childbearing years came to a close.  

I still worry about something dramatic happening with A, in which he might hurt someone else, possibly me.  I’m told he doesn’t have much contact with my mom these days, although she doesn’t seem to want to talk much about it - fear of validating me for telling her how bad off he was for the past 15 years and not listening to me, perhaps?  He lived with her for 10 of those years, btw… she was so miserable I finally convinced her to seek counseling, which come to think of it is probably why A has distanced himself.  Can’t imagine he’d deal with boundaries from our mom real well after all this time.

Unfortunately there’s no way to keep A from knowing where I live and since we live in the same town, I probably won’t get away with never seeing him again. (Yes I’ve considered moving many times but spouse has a good job and doesn’t want to leave; there are unique aspects to the place we live we could not easily replicate.)  I’ll be around.  Anyone who can relate to any of this, feel free to get in touch any time. <3

[hellebore1]

Oh my gosh!  I hadn't refreshed the page and completely missed HolyGhost's story.  

My immediate take on it is: unfortunately my guess is that DIL and your son will wind up divorced.  BPD will eventually just grind you down to the nub.  What do you think your son will do if he sees DIL start verbally and psychically abusing the children?  

At this point you might just 'go along to get along' and do whatever you have to, to maintain access to those children.  By the time they're teenagers they will desperately need stabilizing influences in their lives, particularly if one or both have inherited a tendency toward mental illness.  Your son may start opening up again to you a little bit soon, once the BPD starts truly taking its toll. 

Sending you good thoughts and love  

[HolyGhost]

To be honest, a divorce would be a tremendous relief, but I don't see that as a possibility anytime soon. I would hope my son would not put up with abuse of his children.  He is in such an enabling mode right now we don't even recognize him anymore.  Big meeting with DIL and my therapist next week (after not speaking with her for 7 months).  Trying to re-establish access to the grandchildren.  Trying to control my anxiety and make it as productive as possible.  Amazing the power these people have over us.  Your story is heart breaking, Hellebore.