Help Should I contact him? I don't want us to fight or him to hate me.

[blooming]

Hi everyone,

My ex and I have always been on good terms when we broke up or were seperated, this is mostly because he always did the breaking up and I never got angry about it. These past few weeks he has tried to win me back, or at least tried to get me back in his bed. It didn't work. He has hurt me too much and nothing had changed so I didn't give in. He said he was doing quite badly and wanted to talk to me and see me, so I suggested coffee or a walk during daytime. He wasn't happy with that, wanted to see me at night.

Last Wednesday was our last conversation. I think he realised that I really wasn't going to give in and he couldn't deal with that, so he got really angry at me. Started blaming me, repeating all the things I've done wrong in his eyes. Saying that it was always all about me and that he didn't understand why I didn't want to be there for him when he wasn't doing well. That I never had time for him. I tried to reason with him (see the topic I made about this conversation) but of course it was of no use. I ended the conversation with quite a nice and apoligetic message, but he never responded.

We haven't been in contact since and today he suddenly unfollowed me on strava (a fitness app). He has never unfollowed me before on there so I don't understand why he suddenly does it now.

This weekend we're going to the same music festival and I'm pretty sure I'll see him there.

What I'm not sure about is if I should contact him now. See if he's still mad at me. I don't want it to be like this between us. He's never been this mad at me, normally he always apologized after he behaved like this. I don't want him to hate me. To talk about me to his new girlfriend like he has done to me about some of his other girlfriends. I don't understand why he's so angry now.

I want to maybe send him something like this: "Hey, how are you doing? I don't know if you want any contact, but I keep thinking about our last conversation and I hate how it went."

[juju2]

Hi Blooming,

Idk what you should do.

I write things down on my calendar, when he contacted me, etc...   he does get over upsets quickly.

for me i would not reprise the upset.

I would just contact w your usual style, kindness.
No reason to add fuel to the fire!
j

[Harley Quinn]

Hi Blooming,

Are you wanting to continue a friendship type of r/s in an ongoing way?  If so, is that healthy for you in your view? 

If the answer to that is yes, then I would suggest allowing him time to work through his own feelings, rather than trying to make things better for him.  From what you describe it seems like he is upset that he isn't getting what he wants from you, but that what you're prepared to offer is your limit.  I wouldn't aim to soften that for him, as this will only cause him to continue struggling with that fact.  He is a grown man and will either come to terms with your boundary and respect it or will choose to no longer maintain a r/s with you that isn't on his terms.  I doubt that anything you could say right now would alter the decision, as you've already been clear where you stand on things.  If he's unwilling to remain friends unless you sleep with him at his whim then that doesn't sound like a sustainable friendship as you have too large a difference in values there. 

If the answer to the first question is no - that you are considering parting ways and don't want the two of you to remain involved in one another's lives long term, then I would also say that not contacting him right now would be the fair thing to do.  Again, he needs to work through his own feelings and if he contacts you again, or you see him at the concert, then you will have opportunity to work towards a more comfortable parting of ways if that is possible. 

I'd suggest that either way, if you happen to meet at the concert for you to be your usual friendly self, without bringing anything up about your last conversation and just act casually.  It sounds like you're driven by not wanting him to hate you, which indicates that this means a lot to you.  Would you say that his feelings towards you affect your self view?  Knowing what you do about the way he described his previous gf's, is it possible for you to reach a place of acceptance that he might well say similar things about you?  To know in yourself that this is not a reflection on you, but a reflection on him as this is simply a behavioural pattern that he follows and not personal.

From your recent posts I understand that you have no wish to become involved with him again romantically and I also believe this is your first r/s.  Imagine for a moment if you meet someone new down the line.  Where do you see your ex fitting into that?  I'm just curious.   

Love and light x

[formflier]

Hey... I'm wondering about your interest in understanding his anger. 

What if it turns out he isn't angry at you or what if he is angry at something else but you are an easier "target"?

I would resist overthinking social media moves made by him... .and the "why" of his apparent emotions.

If you are interested in a continued friendship... .perhaps it's best to just listen and validate, even if you don't understand.

FF

[Mutt]

Hi Blooming,

then I would suggest allowing him time to work through his own feelings, rather than trying to make things better for him.

I agree with Harley let him get back to his emotional baseline of happiness. I’d wait for a couple of days and you’ll probably catch him in a better mood because it’s going to be like swimming against the current - just let him sooth himself don’t help him with that.

[spero]

Hi there blooming,

How are you doing?

This weekend we're going to the same music festival and I'm pretty sure I'll see him there.What I'm not sure about is if I should contact him now. See if he's still mad at me. I don't want it to be like this between us.

With regard to this, please see my response from an earlier thread you posted. Ive attached it below.

Your,
Spero

Hey there blooming,

It is good to hear from you. Don't worry too much about responding. You can do so at your own pace. I'm sorry that you must be feeling very drained both physically and mentally from all that is happening with this and perhaps other situations. I also hope that in the midst of what is happening, you have at least been able to practise some self-care and self-compassion.

I suppose blooming, if I may, these are my thoughts. About the festival you are going to, you don't owe him anything to send him a message to inform him of what goes on with your life. I'm going to be just a little firm on this. If you do bump into him at the festival and he gets upset because he saw you, 'he has every right to excuse himself from the concert', you don't need his permission to be there, nor should you allow 'how he feels, or what if he gets angry, or what if he reacts' be a consideration for something you want to do for yourself. It is very plainly, not his business nor his concern.

Blooming, in other words, dear blooming, you don't need to live a life as if he is part of it right now. I am actually concerned that you should be thinking like this just because you want to go to a festival. If he gets upset, when you bump into him at the concert, you should just tell him, you do not need his approval to be there. There might be something deeper here, which you may need to walk through with a therapist, to 'unlearn' and 'relearn' some thought processes.

Blooming, i'm sure you're a kind and considerate person, and perhaps part of you is wanting to be considerate. I'm not in anyway trying to fault you. But you know, one should only be considerate in most reasonable situations. Sure we'd encounter unreasonable situations, but having to seem like 'needing his approval, to be at a concert, can be a kind of mental conditioning, that itself blooming, continues to enable him to have 'control' over you. And you don't need to go there.

Blooming, i'm saying this from my heart and really with genuine care. I highly doubt he would change his reactions, and sometimes the only way to 'better' the situation for yourself is to continue holding firm to your principles and boundaries, and i know its a struggle because of emotions invested, and you perhaps do care for him. But in caring for him, and even perhaps even perpetuating such enabling behavior will not help him become a better person. It would infact just reinforce the fact that he can do whatever he wants with you and he can get away with it, and unforuntately blooming, its really gonna hurt you. And, its hard to see you get hurt again.

But blooming, at the end of the day the decisions are still yours to make. I'm just laying down the facts, the general scenario and the repercussions of the actions or choice you may take and how it would play out and affect you. As i've mentioned again, you don't need to respond immediate and you certainly dont need to feel pressured to respond.

Takecare, i hope the best for you.

Spero.  

[Lucky Jim]

Hey blooming, I agree w/HQ and Mutt, and suggest you give him more time to work things out on his own.  In my view, it's not your place to soothe his anger; that's his task, not yours.  You're not responsible for his emotions.  If you see him at the music festival, I suggest you keep it casual and low key.  Just be yourself.

LJ

[Harley Quinn]

How are you doing Blooming?  What did you decide to do?  We're here for you whatever direction you go. 

Love and light x

[Cromwell]

If he was really feeling that bad that he needed to see you, he would have accepted the opportunity to see you during the day rather than the night. From my previous post, he continues to display entirely selfish behaviour - wanting you to adapt to his wants and then having a tantrum because you dont acquise to his terms. Beyond that, he starts blaming you and guilt tripping you.

Well done standing your ground.

He doesnt hate you, he is sulking because when he asks you to jump for him, you are supposed to ask "how high?" which you are not. So you get the silent treatment and witholding of his "affection" for awhile, to consider as a punishment.

chances are, if you really were able to get a direct look into his mind, you wouldnt care less if he hated you. Ive followed your posts since day 1 with keen interest.

no one here can make a profile of the guy you were with out of thin-air, but I can say that all the behaviour you have reported on, I struggle to see why you give him the time of day, never mind any consideration if you are hated by him.

Probably a bit late to say, hope you enjoy the festival and dont let him put you off doing the things you want to enjoy in life or pander to his demands, you owe him nothing.

[blooming]

If he was really feeling that bad that he needed to see you, he would have accepted the opportunity to see you during the day rather than the night. From my previous post, he continues to display entirely selfish behaviour - wanting you to adapt to his wants and then having a tantrum because you dont acquise to his terms. Beyond that, he starts blaming you and guilt tripping you.

Well done standing your ground.

He doesnt hate you, he is sulking because when he asks you to jump for him, you are supposed to ask "how high?" which you are not. So you get the silent treatment and witholding of his "affection" for awhile, to consider as a punishment.

Thank you Cromwell. I think that's the case exactly. It just hurts that he care so little about what his words do to me and he hasn't apologised at all. When I saw him at the festival this weekend he acted like nothing had ever happened. Very odd.

chances are, if you really were able to get a direct look into his mind, you wouldnt care less if he hated you. Ive followed your posts since day 1 with keen interest.

What do you mean by that exactly? Why wouldn't I care less?

no one here can make a profile of the guy you were with out of thin-air, but I can say that all the behaviour you have reported on, I struggle to see why you give him the time of day, never mind any consideration if you are hated by him.

Well it's what most people here are going through right? The person they love hurts them time and time again and still they come back to them and they forgive them and they care a lot about what that person thinks of them. Why do you struggle to see it?

Probably a bit late to say, hope you enjoy the festival and dont let him put you off doing the things you want to enjoy in life or pander to his demands, you owe him nothing.

Thank you, enjoyed it, but it was also a very odd experience. I'll write more about it later.

[blooming]

How are you doing Blooming?  What did you decide to do?  We're here for you whatever direction you go. 

Love and light x

Hi HQ!

Thank you for thinking of me! I decided not to message him, after reading all your very well thought out replies and you all clearly being on the same page.

This weekend was the music festival and I saw him a lot there, way more than I expected. It already started on the way there, because we coincidentally  took the same train, so I already saw him on the platform. We just smiled eachother. Then, when we arrived at the campsite, he and his friends set up their camp like 50 meters from where me and my friends were standing, so I had to walk past him everytime I'd go the the festival terrain or to the bathroom. I never looked his way when I walked past though, my friends said he was staring at me a lot.

The first day I only saw him a few times from afar and we just smiled at eachother.

The second day I went swimming in the lake (the festival is next to a lake) and I didn't realise he was there, but he was. He waved at me from afar and I waved back and then he suddenly started swimming towards me and my friends. I was a bit taken aback by that. We had a short, awkward but friendly conversation and then he hugged me (while we were swimming haha, didn't really work) and he swam back to his friends. It was so weird that he acted like nothing had happened between us, like all the conversations we had the past week and ESPECIALLY the last one didn't happen at all? Like the mood between us was just fine? It was so odd and I didn't understand.

He later texted me asking me if I wanted to go and see the National (our favourite band) together and I knew that none of my friends wanted to go and see them so I decided, after a lot of thinking, to agree to it. Also because I knew I'd see more of him that weekend and he would probably be quite angry if I said no. I met up with him and we gave eachother a kiss on the cheek and an awkard hug. We got a beer and went to sit in front of the stage 45 minutes before the show started. We just had smalltalk and talked mostly about him. The things I told him he didn't really remember well because I told him what I had eaten that day and later he asked exactly the same question, which was weird. We didn't have any serious conversation which didn't feel right because I felt like there was a lot to discuss because a lot had been said the past few weeks. The concert was absolutely amazing though and it was nice to be with someone who's such a big fan as well. Afterwards we walked to the toilets together and said goodbye there (gave eachother a hug) because he said it would be impossible to find eachother afterwards. That was it. So weird. Unfortunately seeing him made me realise that my feelings for him aren't gone at all, but luckily nothing happened. He tried to stay as close as possible to me during the concert but I have no idea what his intentions were, he didn't try anything so I think they were just friendly.

The friends I was with weren't happy about me meeting up with him. They said it was of course my own decision but that they didn't think it was smart at all and that i should just cut a toxic person like him out of my life because he has hurt me enough and I shouldn't want to be friends with him. But I just couldn't say no.

The next day I didn't see him at all which felt odd so I texted him at night saying that I hoped he had a nice day and wishing him good luck with the exam he had the next day and saying that I thought the concert last night was nice. We had a short conversation about which bands we had seen that day and what we had thought of them and that we were both very excited about sleeping in an actual bed and showering (he was already home, he went home earlier than me) and then he wished me good night and that was that.

So weird. To see him that much again. To talk to him again. I hadn't really seen him since the beginning of April, apart from one time when he cycled past me. And the weirdest part was that he acted like nothing had happened at all. Now I really don't understand anymore why he suddenly unfollowed me on Strava. Because apparently he isn't angry anymore. Such an odd experience.

[EdR]

The friends I was with weren't happy about me meeting up with him. They said it was of course my own decision but that they didn't think it was smart at all and that i should just cut a toxic person like him out of my life because he has hurt me enough and I shouldn't want to be friends with him. But I just couldn't say no.

Hi Blooming!

Wow, you had quite the experience there! Tbh I feel somewhat triggered, because of the above: my BPD friend treated me really badly these last couple of weeks and I am trying to let go. Enough is enough. But my brain and my heart are not always on the same page unfortunately. Your quote however is an indication of the power of peer/group pressure and that's what makes me a little sad: although she is responsible for her own actions, I always thought (and still think) she is heavily influenced by her friends and maybe even now her family. It makes me feel weak/sad again... .Because somewhere deep own I am using that to absolve her from her behaviour... .

So... .back to your post: a lot of people would say the same thing as your friends. But I would like to say that you are quite strong to make your own choice in all of this. Regardless of anything: you continuing in any way with this guy is your own choice. No one else's.

However, I do think it is very important to try and figure out what you really want yourself out all of this. Both for your sake and his. Why am I saying this? Well... .to me the story conveys something more than just friendship. All the hugging (also during swimming), time spent together etc. at least give me that feeling.
Nothing wrong in itself with that, but you were mentioning his -future?- g/f and told us you didn't have any romantic interest anymore. You also told your friends stuff, which made them call him 'toxic'. Nonetheless, you did spend a lot of time with him there and had a lot of fun.
On top of that, you seem to describe some underlying issues which were not addressed during this time with him. And that felt awkward... .(believe me... .I know what you are talking about... .)

So there is absolutely no judgment here, but I do sense a lot of different emotions and actions. It is your call and your call only, but I do feel both of you would need to try and find out what you really want out of this. And because you can't do the thinking for him, I would advise to try to answer that question for yourself.

[blooming]

Hi Blooming!

Wow, you had quite the experience there! Tbh I feel somewhat triggered, because of the above: my BPD friend treated me really badly these last couple of weeks and I am trying to let go. Enough is enough. But my brain and my heart are not always on the same page unfortunately. Your quote however is an indication of the power of peer/group pressure and that's what makes me a little sad: although she is responsible for her own actions, I always thought (and still think) she is heavily influenced by her friends and maybe even now her family. It makes me feel weak/sad again... .Because somewhere deep own I am using that to absolve her from her behaviour... .

I'm sorry to have triggered you. It is an example of peer pressure, but you can also see that I didn't listen to my friends and was able to make my own decision and so is she. So she is still responsible for her own actions, regardless of what her friends and family are saying.

So... .back to your post: a lot of people would say the same thing as your friends. But I would like to say that you are quite strong to make your own choice in all of this. Regardless of anything: you continuing in any way with this guy is your own choice. No one else's.

However, I do think it is very important to try and figure out what you really want yourself out all of this. Both for your sake and his. Why am I saying this? Well... .to me the story conveys something more than just friendship. All the hugging (also during swimming), time spent together etc. at least give me that feeling.
Nothing wrong in itself with that, but you were mentioning his -future?- g/f and told us you didn't have any romantic interest anymore. You also told your friends stuff, which made them call him 'toxic'. Nonetheless, you did spend a lot of time with him there and had a lot of fun.
On top of that, you seem to describe some underlying issues which were not addressed during this time with him. And that felt awkward... .(believe me... .I know what you are talking about... .)

His future gf, he doesn't have a gf now. I don't know if he's dating anyone or not, but knowing him he most probably is. In our country it's quite normal to hug eachother, I hug all my friends when I meet them, so I don't know if that's exactly something that means it was more than friendship. Maybe he touched me a bit more than necessary and was a bit closer than necessary when we talked, but that could also just be old habits. We haven't spoken since sunday so I don't think he wants anything else out of this otherwise he would've probably messaged me already.

And I didn't spend a lot of time with him, probably 3 hours in total out of the whole weekend of which 2 were spent listening to the concert and not talking to eachother, so it's not a crazy amount of time I guess?

Yeah the last few weeks a lot happened between us and he said a lot to me, about missing me and wanting to try again etc (you can read my recent topics if you'd like to know more). I held him off, said that I wanted to drink coffee with him to talk if he needed me, but nothing else. Which resulted in a final conversation in which he got very angry at me and blamed a lot of things on me. That conversation was never resolved and was the last contact we had before this weekend. So it was a crazily strange experience that he acted like nothing had happened at all.

So there is absolutely no judgment here, but I do sense a lot of different emotions and actions. It is your call and your call only, but I do feel both of you would need to try and find out what you really want out of this. And because you can't do the thinking for him, I would advise to try to answer that question for yourself.

YOu are right, I definitely need to think. I know we shouldn't be together anymore, but since seeing him my feelings for him have become very strong again and all I want is him to be near me and to talk to him. Although I know that should never happen again. I'm very sad and spend all day in bed and have no energy.

I was thinking about sending him a message with something like "Hey, it feels a bit weird and unresolved that we haven't spoken anymore about everything that has happened and has been said between us these past weeks. Especially the last conversation we had. That we acted like nothing ever happened last weekend. I don't know if you feel the same?" But I'm not sure if it's smart to bring that up again. It just feels so unresolved now. Not satisfying at all.

[EdR]

Hi Blooming! I fear your question is difficult to answer.

In a normal situation I would think a similar text would be fine and logical.

In this situation I just do not know. I think your text will feel 'heavy' and could have an undesired outcome.
I can only try and copy paste the experience with my - ex- friend with BPD. There was a clear pattern there, so I will try and apply that to your situation.

The fact that he was there and made contact and had fun with you is probably already an implicit way of apologizing. In his mind you accepted his apology, because you said yes to his invitation to see this particular band.
In his mind everything is resolved and completely fine. Until he will feel it isn't fine anymore and he will use everything against you, because you never reached closure on the subject.
BUT if you'd send a message like you posted her, he will probably don't understand where you're coming from. Everything was fine, wasn't it? What the hell is all the fuzz about? Can't you just be 'normal'?
Then he wil start to dysregulate and probably somehow spin the story to better fit a certain image of himself and he wouldn't shy away from painting you black to better deal with his dysregulated feelings.

That's basically my experience applied to your situation.
Is this what truly will happen? Probably not... .but I have seen it too many times to be a coincidence... .

[Zen606]

Hi Blooming,
It sounds like the on and off cycle continues even if you are separated from your ex. I would ask you what is it that you want from him? Do you want to be friends with him? And are you willing to put up with the behavior you describe while being friends? Friends don't treat each other in the way you describe.
Sometimes it is best to leave things where they are and walk away. 
Zen606

[Lucky Jim]

Friends don't treat each other in the way you describe.
Sometimes it is best to leave things where they are and walk away. 
Zen606

You put that well, Zen606.  Same could be said for the way my BPDxW treated her spouse (me), someone she ostensibly loved.

LJ

[Zen606]

Hi Lucky Jim,
Yes, when one sees abusive treatment like that, there is definitely something that is not right with the picture.
Zen606

[Lucky Jim]

Sometimes it is best to leave things where they are and walk away. 

Zen606:  I think you put that well.  My T has a saying: "If something is crazy, drop it!"

I could have used that advice at an earlier juncture of my life, before my descent into the dark valley of marriage to a pwBPD.

LJ

[blooming]

Hi Blooming! I fear your question is difficult to answer.

In a normal situation I would think a similar text would be fine and logical.

In this situation I just do not know. I think your text will feel 'heavy' and could have an undesired outcome.
I can only try and copy paste the experience with my - ex- friend with BPD. There was a clear pattern there, so I will try and apply that to your situation.

The fact that he was there and made contact and had fun with you is probably already an implicit way of apologizing. In his mind you accepted his apology, because you said yes to his invitation to see this particular band.
In his mind everything is resolved and completely fine. Until he will feel it isn't fine anymore and he will use everything against you, because you never reached closure on the subject.
BUT if you'd send a message like you posted her, he will probably don't understand where you're coming from. Everything was fine, wasn't it? What the hell is all the fuzz about? Can't you just be 'normal'?
Then he wil start to dysregulate and probably somehow spin the story to better fit a certain image of himself and he wouldn't shy away from painting you black to better deal with his dysregulated feelings.

That's basically my experience applied to your situation.
Is this what truly will happen? Probably not... .but I have seen it too many times to be a coincidence... .

Yes you are probably right. He hasn't contacted me since Sunday either, so I think he's not interested anymore and has probably found someone new.

Would it be a better idea to just send him a more casual message and than ask if he's up for a coffee sometime? It just feels so odd that we haven't discussed anything of what has happened these past few weeks. But apparently he doesn't find it necessary to talk about it anymore? One minute he misses me and needs to be with me and another he doesn't care anymore at all. I really don't understand it.

[blooming]

Hi Blooming,
It sounds like the on and off cycle continues even if you are separated from your ex. I would ask you what is it that you want from him? Do you want to be friends with him? And are you willing to put up with the behavior you describe while being friends? Friends don't treat each other in the way you describe.
Sometimes it is best to leave things where they are and walk away. 
Zen606

Thanks for that wake up call Zen, you're right of course. It's just so hard to leave him. I think part of me still wants it to work out between us. That he'll come round and get therapy and that he'll get better and stay with me and we'll live happily ever after. I think that's why I can't let go. I can't accept the fact that this was it. Especially because I know that some of his other relationships lasted a lot longer (see my other topic about this).

[Lucky Jim]

I think part of me still wants it to work out between us. That he'll come round and get therapy and that he'll get better and stay with me and we'll live happily ever after. I think that's why I can't let go.

Hey blooming, You might want to ask yourself whether that is likely to happen?  LJ

[blooming]

Hey blooming, You might want to ask yourself whether that is likely to happen?  LJ

Haha good question LJ! It's not likely at all. Not in the near future at least. Probably something really bad needs to happen before my ex will realise that he needs help, if he'll ever realise it at all. The crazy thing is that he actually knows that something is wrong with him. He knows that there's a reason that all his relationships end up like this. He has actually promised some of his other exes that he would get help (so that they'd get back with him), but he never did. I really don't understand why. If he's able to see how much he's hurting himself and the others around him, why doesn't he take the step of seeking support? But no, as he puts it, he "just always goes on like this, always has, always will".

It's just crazy how much power he has over me. I really need to use every ounce of willpower I have to not cave in and message him asking him how his exam went or something. I'm so addicted to being in contact with him, it's absolutely mindblowing.

I keep wondering that maybe if I hadn't rejected him this time around, if I had caved in and listened to all his pleading, that maybe this time it would have actually been different. That maybe this time it would have worked. I'll never know unfortunately. It's something that'll haunt me probably. Just as much as that ex of his does.

[Harley Quinn]

Only if you let it Blooming. 

Love and light x

[Zen606]

Hi Blooming,
I really see what you are saying -- about not wanting to leave him and wanting to make it work. I did this for many years with my non-BPD late husband. But in the end I left because in my heart I knew -- all along -- that it was not going to work out. Even if he would have gotten help for his drinking, too much damage had been done. It would have taken many years of individual therapy and marriage counseling to work things out.  In the end I knew I had to walk away, I wanted to just go.

But sometimes we have to go many rounds until we finally get it. It took me 17 years to get it.
Are you seeing a therapist? This would be a good time to go, start sorting things out.
Zen606

[Lucky Jim]

I keep wondering that maybe if I hadn't rejected him this time around, if I had caved in and listened to all his pleading, that maybe this time it would have actually been different. That maybe this time it would have worked. I'll never know unfortunately. It's something that'll haunt me probably.

Right, we all have to wrestle with that "what if" issue, which is probably why so many of us, including me, get involved in recycles, sometimes several recycles, before finding ourselves in the same place further down the road, except with more pain.

In my view its doubtful that anything you did or didn't do would have changed the outcome, because most BPD relationships are not built to last.  Just the way it is and why we're all here.

LuckyJim

[Cromwell]

Haha good question LJ! It's not likely at all. Not in the near future at least. Probably something really bad needs to happen before my ex will realise that he needs help, if he'll ever realise it at all. The crazy thing is that he actually knows that something is wrong with him. He knows that there's a reason that all his relationships end up like this. He has actually promised some of his other exes that he would get help (so that they'd get back with him), but he never did. I really don't understand why. If he's able to see how much he's hurting himself and the others around him, why doesn't he take the step of seeking support? But no, as he puts it, he "just always goes on like this, always has, always will".

Hi blooming
Some pretty amazing insight I think. Gave me a lot to think about, not actually from the perspective of my ex, but thats exactly what happened from my perspective, although not realising at the time.

 I stayed with her despite nothing ever changing, sure there was the push/pull and thats what kept things going from week to week, until it became an expected normality. It did take me finally getting very ill, as the behaviour changed from being "upsetting" to that of, nightmarish - that was what it took to wake me up. Even a long time afterwards, she held and still does to a very small extent, type of psychic power over me - but the difference is I see it for what it is, ultimately I had the power to make choices to walk away, not live in the fog and cycles, but I didnt. Your comment said more about me than it did my ex. Id like to turn it around and say that, as long as there are people that will enable his behaviour, validate it, not make him feel any shame or guilt - why would he ever want to change? Hes getting everything he wants.

It's just crazy how much power he has over me. I really need to use every ounce of willpower I have to not cave in and message him asking him how his exam went or something. I'm so addicted to being in contact with him, it's absolutely mindblowing.

I keep wondering that maybe if I hadn't rejected him this time around, if I had caved in and listened to all his pleading, that maybe this time it would have actually been different. That maybe this time it would have worked. I'll never know unfortunately. It's something that'll haunt me probably. Just as much as that ex of his does.

j
Its not crazy at all, no different from a fish being called crazy for biting on a baited hook. I dont doubt that hes attractive to you, might have some charisma or way that he can beguile, a refined well practiced collection of hou to "talk the talk" and gets frustrated or "acts" frustrated when its not working. This "wondering" about it all, is part of the way to keep you unfooted and ramp up the desirability over his "mystique". If he believes that you know that he cheated on you - yet can still entice you back - what a great ego boost it must be for him.

Maybe im wrong Blooming, I can only go by reading all your posts from day 1, but thats how it comes across. Why would he want therapy though, or any help, asides from his temper tantrum if you dont behave how he expects you to - he doesnt sound otherwise that he would need to put him through all that. You called him out on the cheating, yet happy to publicly show no animosity about it - you allowing him to hug you in front of others showing everyone you are on good terms. publicly validated/exonerated of guilt?