She called me today just to see how things are and to catch up.

[Struggler123]

Everyone knows my story, considering the amount of times I post here when I’m confused. All it takes is one call from my ex and I’m back to square one. She called me today just to see how things are and to catch up. She keeps talking about the good times and it really brings up the good memories. It threw me off when she said so what did your family and friends say when you told them I was engaged and getting married soon. I was like they were shocked that it happened so quick but they told me that I should be happy for you and were surprised that you weren’t willing to wait. To which she said, you were the one that told me not to wait, and I do agree with that, but is it really considered love if you confine someone like that. I just went silent on that, and then I told her that I think its wrong for us to be in contact, and she said that theres nothing wrong with this, and that marriage doesn’t mean she would be locked in prison. I just feel conflicted, as to why she’s doing this. I know that she could easily discard me anytime, but why hasn’t she done so already.  She told me to add her back on social media and I just changed the topic, and kept the conversation short. She wouldn’t let me hang up, until a couple of minutes when she fell asleep. After which she messaged me saying, she would call me again soon. Something that struck me was, she was like theres a lot of things I would like to talk to you about and the changes happening but I feel like I never can.She also asked me if I was happy for her, and i’m like if your happy thats all that matters. I was like that’s because I am not the one to talk to about the changes, I don’t know why I picked up, or what’s right and what’s wrong anymore.

[zachira]

I am so sorry that you are in so much pain over completely detaching from your ex. Know that you are not alone in finding contact with your ex bringing up all kinds of uncomfortable feelings. I think one of your challenges might be to own which feelings are yours, and which ones are hers. Your ex sounds like she knows how to dump her unwanted feelings onto you and she is doing everything to get you back by reminding you of the good times. It is normal for the reminder of the good times to want us to go back to those times, and feel considerable distress over why we feel so sad and distressed by how the relationship ended so badly. Give yourself some quiet time and sit with your feelings. No uncomfortable feeling can last forever if we allow ourselves to quietly observe the feeling and let it pass. Keep us updated and write about what comes up for you, as this can be a helpful way to work through the overwhelming feelings. We are here to listen and to help in any way we can.

[Shawnlam]

Everyone knows my story, considering the amount of times I post here when I’m confused. All it takes is one call from my ex and I’m back to square one. She called me today just to see how things are and to catch up. She keeps talking about the good times and it really brings up the good memories. It threw me off when she said so what did your family and friends say when you told them I was engaged and getting married soon. I was like they were shocked that it happened so quick but they told me that I should be happy for you and were surprised that you weren’t willing to wait. To which she said, you were the one that told me not to wait, and I do agree with that, but is it really considered love if you confine someone like that. I just went silent on that, and then I told her that I think its wrong for us to be in contact, and she said that theres nothing wrong with this, and that marriage doesn’t mean she would be locked in prison. I just feel conflicted, as to why she’s doing this. I know that she could easily discard me anytime, but why hasn’t she done so already.  She told me to add her back on social media and I just changed the topic, and kept the conversation short. She wouldn’t let me hang up, until a couple of minutes when she fell asleep. After which she messaged me saying, she would call me again soon. Something that struck me was, she was like theres a lot of things I would like to talk to you about and the changes happening but I feel like I never can.She also asked me if I was happy for her, and i’m like if your happy thats all that matters. I was like that’s because I am not the one to talk to about the changes, I don’t know why I picked up, or what’s right and what’s wrong anymore.

Well it comes down to what you want again struggles.Its crystal clear that she affects you still and this brings you here when it happens.Honestly my opinion? You will have to pick a path, talk to her more and see what she has to say and try continuing together if she is willing to leave the new guy , or stop this emotion harp playing she is doing to you and go NC which would mean blocking her.Thats my two cents ,it’s all or nothing because this inbetween thing is eating you alive .I know how it feels because I did it with my exGF and honestly contemplated reaching out to her as early as today but didn’t .Why you ask? Because I know what will happen ,just ask yourself these questions because I did for my own case , it prevents me from pulling that communication trigger

1: did she change at all from her previous self
2: does she lie any less than before
3: has she been with another man intimately and if yes how can she still be playing the love card?
4: is she any less impulsive than before?
5: if she really loved /cared for you would any of this happened?
6: if they really cared about us (not themselves ), would they still be playing around with new people while song and dancing us with the I love yous,miss you stuff?

Obviously when I check my list above I know even if I did reach out and even if I did get another lunch or breakfast it wouldn’t matter because she hasn’t worked on herself or cured herself of BPD .AND she may actually hate me more now that I’ve worked on myself and won’t accept certain things,or will she like the fact I listen to her and observe her emotional state not to upset her when I know she loved fighting and drama?   

With all that said struggles , are your phone calls worth it? Are they going to bring you somewhere better ,worse,same? And do you want the same ? Do you ?

[Struggler123]

I am so sorry that you are in so much pain over completely detaching from your ex. Know that you are not alone in finding contact with your ex bringing up all kinds of uncomfortable feelings. I think one of your challenges might be to own which feelings are yours, and which ones are hers. Your ex sounds like she knows how to dump her unwanted feelings onto you and she is doing everything to get you back by reminding you of the good times. It is normal for the reminder of the good times to want us to go back to those times, and feel considerable distress over why we feel so sad and distressed by how the relationship ended so badly. Give yourself some quiet time and sit with your feelings. No uncomfortable feeling can last forever if we allow ourselves to quietly observe the feeling and let it pass. Keep us updated and write about what comes up for you, as this can be a helpful way to work through the overwhelming feelings. We are here to listen and to help in any way we can.

I think my problem is that, i’m still stuck in the idealization phase. I am trying so hard to believe that; maybe things changed and she’s a different person. That the ultimatiums and threats I faced when we were together are finally gone. She says so much by saying so little, it makes me question my own sanity at times. I thought I was doing the right thing and the respectful thing by maintaining my boundaries. I’m sure her fiance has no idea shes in contact with me. The weird part was she was like just because im getting married doesnt mean i wont have my freedom, I just wanted time to stand up on my feet. I saw so many people around me get into relationships and then marriages, and realize that they would have been better if financially they were more secure. I don’t think I asked for anything wrong, but she wanted me to say wait for me, I just felt that it was the wrong thing to ask because if she really felt the same way about me, she would have understood I put her before myself.  I put her happiness before mine and I continue to do that time after time. Everyone says, I dodged a bullet, but just wish it didn’t sting so much.

Well it comes down to what you want again struggles.Its crystal clear that she affects you still and this brings you here when it happens.Honestly my opinion? You will have to pick a path, talk to her more and see what she has to say and try continuing together if she is willing to leave the new guy , or stop this emotion harp playing she is doing to you and go NC which would mean blocking her.Thats my two cents ,it’s all or nothing because this inbetween thing is eating you alive .I know how it feels because I did it with my exGF and honestly contemplated reaching out to her as early as today but didn’t .Why you ask? Because I know what will happen ,just ask yourself these questions because I did for my own case , it prevents me from pulling that communication trigger

1: did she change at all from her previous self
2: does she lie any less than before
3: has she been with another man intimately and if yes how can she still be playing the love card?
4: is she any less impulsive than before?
5: if she really loved /cared for you would any of this happened?
6: if they really cared about us (not themselves ), would they still be playing around with new people while song and dancing us with the I love yous,miss you stuff?

Obviously when I check my list above I know even if I did reach out and even if I did get another lunch or breakfast it wouldn’t matter because she hasn’t worked on herself or cured herself of BPD .AND she may actually hate me more now that I’ve worked on myself and won’t accept certain things,or will she like the fact I listen to her and observe her emotional state not to upset her when I know she loved fighting and drama?   

With all that said struggles , are your phone calls worth it? Are they going to bring you somewhere better ,worse,same? And do you want the same ? Do you ?

Hello Shawn, thank you for always having my back since day 1. I would be lying if I said she didn’t affect me. She wasnt the most attractive girl, but I was attached to her. I just get the feeling that this emotional harp, is going to lead to the same history repeating itself. She’s going to want a ring on it asap, in the early stages she tood me she would leave him for me, but its the wrong thing to do. If she ends it on her own, thats her choice but I wouldn’t want to do that and feel guilty for it. Imsgine being in a situation, where You are blamed everything goes wrong and shes like I should have married the other guy. I don’t want to be in the middle of that.  I sometimes think that maybe blocking her would be the right thing to do, but I don’t know what keeps holding me back.  Thank you for the questions. I am going to read them over and over again despite knowing the answers. I don’t think the impulses have changed, or sometimes its just easier to assume the worst. I don’t think its going to change anything, but I am just having a tough time accepting the fact that she really does affect me. I never let a girl bring me down and now I feel so stupid.

[Shawnlam]

Don’t feel stupid it’s normal that you feel this way towards her.I felt stupid a lot and sometimes still do.Because we care about someone that hurt us means we are stupid? I think not ! Beauty is in the eye of the beholder struggles , from looks to character an attraction is a unique experience to every individual.Lots of people know my ex’s past and things she has done ,people she hurt ,cheated on , was cruel .Many of my closest friends and family despise her ,yet here I am in love with her ,with all her issues good/bad ,now how stupid and foolish does that make me ? Pretty solid fool indeed but lately I don’t feel wrong loving her.I just have to remind myself very often that if I reach out it will all start over because I can’t be with someone I don’t trust ,regardless of how much I love her .She herself warned me ,many times and I chose not to listen.Lots of comments like ,ill be yours for as long as you have me ,I won’t hurt or cheat on you on purpose,you can do better , what do you see in me , and this list goes on and on.I think  she really did try
Her best to be what she thought she wanted to be ,but sadly it didn’t work out in the end .Just remember the ultimatums and such that your beloved did to you,these can’t be ignored.It must have been excruciating to see her move on so fast as well and this alone is a tell tale sign of something that could happen in the future ... .I know you know this stuff already ,we all do in a sense , but sometimes when people tell us anyways it has a harder affect.

[Struggler123]

Don’t feel stupid it’s normal that you feel this way towards her.I felt stupid a lot and sometimes still do.Because we care about someone that hurt us means we are stupid? I think not ! Beauty is in the eye of the beholder struggles , from looks to character an attraction is a unique experience to every individual.Lots of people know my ex’s past and things she has done ,people she hurt ,cheated on , was cruel .Many of my closest friends and family despise her ,yet here I am in love with her ,with all her issues good/bad ,now how stupid and foolish does that make me ? Pretty solid fool indeed but lately I don’t feel wrong loving her.I just have to remind myself very often that if I reach out it will all start over because I can’t be with someone I don’t trust ,regardless of how much I love her .She herself warned me ,many times and I chose not to listen.Lots of comments like ,ill be yours for as long as you have me ,I won’t hurt or cheat on you on purpose,you can do better , what do you see in me , and this list goes on and on.I think  she really did try
Her best to be what she thought she wanted to be ,but sadly it didn’t work out in the end .Just remember the ultimatums and such that your beloved did to you,these can’t be ignored.It must have been excruciating to see her move on so fast as well and this alone is a tell tale sign of something that could happen in the future ... .I know you know this stuff already ,we all do in a sense , but sometimes when people tell us anyways it has a harder affect.

It’s just confusing at times because at times I feel like she could say or do anything and it wont have an affect on me. Then there’s those times where I see something that reminds me of her and reminds me how I lost someone very close to me. She would always tell me she would be with someone else if I didn’t pull through, I just never expected her to do that at such a critical stage when I introduced her to my family and friends. All I asked for was time, but I guess my mistake was not carving it in stone because I was too much of a nice guy. You are right, did she cheat on me, i’m not sure but I’d like to believe she didn’t. She was in contact with her previous ex, and she showed me her phone I was just respectful enough not to open up the messages. It’s like the signs are in front of you, but my mind chooses to ignore it. I always made her the best that I knew she was capable of to be in front of all those that I introduced her to. She usually calls me when shes in a middle of a breakdown, but today it was just different. I guess, in a way seeing her so calm and collective, it reminded me of how much potential she has, if only she was able to control her impulses. You are doing the right thing, I can only hope I can do the same thing. There’s something that I haven’t shared on this forum, and thats that I was scared to after seeing her during the no contact phase for 2 months where she did everything to contact me, it showed me that once she wants something she wont let it go and when once she doesn’t she will throw it away like it holds no meaning. Currently, I feel like shes reaching out because its the early stages and the ring ceremony hasn’t been conducted yet, or maybe it has, but she can still opt out it. It’s indicating that I’m here if you change your mind but you will have to fight for me, and sometimes I feel like thats the wrong kind of initative to have. I could be wrong, but I’d like to give her the benefit of the doubt, because the malicious intent (without realizing) would be to hurt me, and when I throw in all the marbles to tell me sorry but I am better off with the new guy, you were just someone I needed for a temporary time. In some ways, it shows me that, its always about her and always has. Sometimes, thats what hurts the most that it will never be anything more or less, just based on what she wants at the time. If I married her, what it have been better or worse? I’m not sure, but I am sure that I don’t want to be the one that ruins her engagement or whatever it is.

[Turkish]

think my problem is that, i’m still stuck in the idealization phase. I am trying so hard to believe that; maybe things changed and she’s a different person

This and Shawnlam's Point 1, I'm reminded of what my T said years ago: "personalities typically don't change." Certainly not so quickly.  

It's often different on the outside of the r/s than in.  Less triggers.

I had lunch with my ex and the kids today.  I was criticized for doing two things wrong yesterday during a sporting event for the kids.  Just when I think I kind of like her, I'm reminded of her tendency to find fault... .death of a r/s by a thousand tiny cuts. Or maybe it's me? Whatever it is,  I never would want to revisit it.  

[Struggler123]

This and Shawnlam's Point 1, I'm reminded of what my T said years ago: "personalities typically don't change." Certainly not so quickly.  

It's often different on the outside of the r/s than in.  Less triggers.

I had lunch with my ex and the kids today.  I was criticized for doing two things wrong yesterday during a sporting event for the kids.  Just when I think I kind of like her, I'm reminded of her tendency to find fault... .death of a r/s by a thousand tiny cuts. Or maybe it's me? Whatever it is,  I never would want to revisit it.  

I apologize if this sounds redunant, but I know her personality didn’t change. She still has the impulses maybe since I’m not in the relationship with her anymore, she’s more calm and perceptive. She states shes brought a lot of changes in her life, but she still feels “sick” sometimes. I never understood what that meant,  cause I thought it was a medical thing. I remember trying to use every possible diagnosis, for when her head hurt etc, but I realized now that it was indicating the episodes of BPD. But, I think its just a figment of my imagination, her impulses are still the same, its just better controlled because after spending 2 years with someone that showed compassion and understanding, maybe it rubbed off. But, I don’t think any of that matters, i’m just trying to figure out how I reduce the flashbacks and how everytime I think that she’s gone she finds her way somehow. I’m really sorry to hear about your situation, I guess it really does show that sometimes love doesn’t conquer all, it merely just shows the wrong kind and the right kind. I guess this is the wrong kind of love which is one sided.  If I may ask, I was reading on some of the forums that if you marry someone with BPD it makes them feel more secure and hence reduces the impulses. Would you agree with that? I know its the wrong thing to ask, but sometimes I really question myself whether I made the right decision leaving.

[Turkish]

My ex called herself "sick" and she meant beyond her diagnosed depression and anxiety.  

If I may ask, I was reading on some of the forums that if you marry someone with BPD it makes them feel more secure and hence reduces the impulses. Would you agree with that?

Initially... .but the core disordered feelings don't change,  nor is it possible for an outside influence to change those; that's impossible.  She used to say,  "I have everything I ever wanted but I still feel empty." I honestly had no freaking clue how to respond to that.  Kids are an added stress to make things worse too, even if the initial feeling is the opposite,  no matter what the pwBPD says. Anyone here who has had kids with their SO would agree.  

[Mustbeabetterway]

Hi Struggler123,

So sorry you are having this struggle!  :)etaching really stinks.  I totally empathize.  There are so many conflicting signals.  I guess that's why we often speak of being on an emotional roller coaster.

On one hand, I am feeling more detached.  I am learning to depend on myself more after having been a part of a couple for so long.  I am doing things with friends and going ahead with my life.  But, on the other hand, I still care about him, miss him and it's hard to be nc.

True change can only from determination and hard work.  So, unless a lot of effort has been spent on change, your ex partner's personality is probably basically the same as when you were together.  

It's hard to say no to someone we still care for, even if we know we should.  Make the decisions that make the most sense for you.  I heard a song yesterday, "I May Have to Do It, but I Don't Have to Like It".  That kind of sums it up.

Take care,  Mustbeabetterway

[Struggler123]

My ex called herself "sick" and she meant beyond her diagnosed depression and anxiety.  

Initially... .but the core disordered feelings don't change,  nor is it possible for an outside influence to change those; that's impossible.  She used to say,  "I have everything I ever wanted but I still feel empty." I honestly had no freaking clue how to respond to that.  Kids are an added stress to make things worse too, even if the initial feeling is the opposite,  no matter what the pwBPD says. Anyone here who has had kids with their SO would agree.  

My ex has been diagnosed with depression and anxiety. At times I feel like she knows but, she never told me about BPD. After we broke up initially, thats when I figured things out about it, I guess thats why we lasted 2 years, 1 year as friends and the next as together. That’s really surprising that it didn’t work out between you and her considering she knew there was a problem in terms of her mental health. I actually remember something similar, I remember spending 3 hours on the phone with her and she was like I don’t get why I feel so alone and empty. I don’t think I was a bad boyfriend,therapist, or a friend. My biggest flaw was just that I couldn’t make someone a promise of something as big as marriage until I had something to show for it. Considering the turn of events, I just felt like when the going gets tough, she wouldn’t have stayed and that’s the only reason time after time makes realize that maybe I made the right choice, because life outside love is a struggle itself.  I think she loved the idea of marriage but not the responsibilities, and I completely agree add kids into the mix and its even more complicated. The way I like to see it is, sometimes a girl can be the best girlfriend but the worst wife. I just remembered how my ex was so against marriage and kids and now she’s like I think its one of the happiest things. I guess what I never understood was, if you’re so happy why are you trying so hard to be in touch with me, and asking to be on my social media. I know that if I was marrying someone I would not be concerned about my ex’s and what they are up to. Just makes me think that, maybe this is all for show, and shes hoping that I will still somehow pull through.

Hi Struggler123,

So sorry you are having this struggle!  Detaching really stinks.  I totally empathize.  There are so many conflicting signals.  I guess that's why we often speak of being on an emotional roller coaster.

On one hand, I am feeling more detached.  I am learning to depend on myself more after having been a part of a couple for so long.  I am doing things with friends and going ahead with my life.  But, on the other hand, I still care about him, miss him and it's hard to be nc.

True change can only from determination and hard work.  So, unless a lot of effort has been spent on change, your ex partner's personality is probably basically the same as when you were together. 

It's hard to say no to someone we still care for, even if we know we should.  Make the decisions that make the most sense for you.  I heard a song yesterday, "I May Have to Do It, but I Don't Have to Like It".  That kind of sums it up.

Take care,  Mustbeabetterway

Thank you for your kindness. You do make a valid point and that song does certainly strike a chord. Sometimes, it’s just hard to accept the fact that nothing more can be done. I remember writing on this forum, what does it mean to keep the door open and someone said sometimes when one door closes and snother opens. I suppose that maybe this door needs to be locked with a chain because where im standing its only going downhill from here. Sometimes the person we care about destroys us and while they are able to move on with their life we are stuck picking up the pieces, so before that happens I think its best to slowly fade out.

[Shawnlam]

I apologize if this sounds redunant, but I know her personality didn’t change. She still has the impulses maybe since I’m not in the relationship with her anymore, she’s more calm and perceptive. She states shes brought a lot of changes in her life, but she still feels “sick” sometimes. I never understood what that meant,  cause I thought it was a medical thing. I remember trying to use every possible diagnosis, for when her head hurt etc, but I realized now that it was indicating the episodes of BPD. But, I think its just a figment of my imagination, her impulses are still the same, its just better controlled because after spending 2 years with someone that showed compassion and understanding, maybe it rubbed off. But, I don’t think any of that matters, i’m just trying to figure out how I reduce the flashbacks and how everytime I think that she’s gone she finds her way somehow. I’m really sorry to hear about your situation, I guess it really does show that sometimes love doesn’t conquer all, it merely just shows the wrong kind and the right kind. I guess this is the wrong kind of love which is one sided.  If I may ask, I was reading on some of the forums that if you marry someone with BPD it makes them feel more secure and hence reduces the impulses. Would you agree with that? I know its the wrong thing to ask, but sometimes I really question myself whether I made the right decision leaving.

My ex also told me “I have to fix somethings to have a normal life with you” .They are people after all struggles and they know very well something is wrong and they aren’t normal.I know a lot of people (me included at the beginning of my troubles )we tend to use BPD as a way to character assassinate the person in question.Frankly that’s just not a healthy way to operate ,blaming someone for what they are and what they did to us.They really didn’t do anything out of the norm to us ,we just let it happen.With that said just remember your own words “ it’s always about her and always will be” , you are 100% correct... .Can you live your whole life coming in second always ? Because that’s what’s going to happen.

[zachira]

You say that your biggest flaw was you could not marry her until you had something to show for it. What I hear you saying is that you felt badly about not being able to marry her, not able to do what she wanted regardless of the consequences. This is not a flaw, and shows tremendous integrity and caring that you wanted to do what was best for you, her, and to provide a good home for your children someday. When we are dealing with a person with BPD, they dump their uncomfortable feelings on us, and do everything to make us feel guilty forever about not being able to meet their impossible expectations. A big part of the healing process is owning the feelings that are yours, and recognizing that you are not responsible for the feelings of your ex partner. I agree with Shawnlam that being in contact with her is likely to only stir up the pain you feel from this relationship, and really not helping you in your healing process at this point. You are very wise in that you seem to really know what you are looking for in a wife, and I believe you will find it because of the kind of guy you are. Please stay in touch and let us know how you are doing.

[Struggler123]

My ex also told me “I have to fix somethings to have a normal life with you” .They are people after all struggles and they know very well something is wrong and they aren’t normal.I know a lot of people (me included at the beginning of my troubles )we tend to use BPD as a way to character assassinate the person in question.Frankly that’s just not a healthy way to operate ,blaming someone for what they are and what they did to us.They really didn’t do anything out of the norm to us ,we just let it happen.With that said just remember your own words “ it’s always about her and always will be” , you are 100% correct... .Can you live your whole life coming in second always ? Because that’s what’s going to happen.

Thank you for putting that into perspective. I feel like at times the words I say are just words. And no one thats healthy emotionally would want to be put second. I feel like expecting the same treatment that we give is a normal feeling, but I never felt so confused about my feelings. Thats the part that scares me the most at times, that I let it affect me to this extend. You are right though its a recipe for disaster and I hope I can find my way out of this, but its not going to be easy. How are you holding up? What do you do on your off days?

You say that your biggest flaw was you could not marry her until you had something to show for it. What I hear you saying is that you felt badly about not being able to marry her, not able to do what she wanted regardless of the consequences. This is not a flaw, and shows tremendous integrity and caring that you wanted to do what was best for you, her, and to provide a good home for your children someday. When we are dealing with a person with BPD, they dump their uncomfortable feelings on us, and do everything to make us feel guilty forever about not being able to meet their impossible expectations. A big part of the healing process is owning the feelings that are yours, and recognizing that you are not responsible for the feelings of your ex partner. I agree with Shawnlam that being in contact with her is likely to only stir up the pain you feel from this relationship, and really not helping you in your healing process at this point. You are very wise in that you seem to really know what you are looking for in a wife, and I believe you will find it because of the kind of guy you are. Please stay in touch and let us know how you are doing.

I felt like a solid career is essential, especially in todays world, where it makes a big difference. She never understood that I wanted to give her stability even if she couldn’t handle it. I’m really grateful that you understood the words I was not able to say and you said it so clearly. I wanted to be the best that I can be to her, and thats why I never restricted her. Now that she’s found someone else, I just don’t understand why im still being kept in this bubble, I know its my fault too for still having some form of attachment but I never contact her. Even if I want to I don’t. She always initiates contact in one way or another. I tried all the nice tactics and to avoid conflicts, and to be mature I didn’t do the blocking thing. It’s just hard sometimes to accept that we did the best and at the end, it was never going to be enough.  I really appreciate your kind words, it really said the words I was having a difficult time typing, I think that sometimes it just gets hard to walk away. It just makes me feel bad for the new guy, because it indicates that she knows shes made an impulsive decision and now is just trying to find someway out of it through resentment, but I just feel like if she couldn’t wait for me now, she wont wait for me through the hard times.

[Shawnlam]

I’m not holding up well at all today ,I was literally one finger push on a text to her and I backed off... .so I’m not exactly a prime example and what to do but I’ve managed to hold off.I just want her back so badly but I repeat everything I’ve weitten to you to myself.Now I’ve convinced myself on a big business trips drive Wednesday maybe I should call her or text her ? Stupid huh ? Yeah I have two days to convince myself to NOT do that !

[once removed]

i think at a certain point in the Detaching process, we have to take it by the horns, and take active steps, some of which are mentally and/or emotionally hard.

do you know what steps you might take? do you know what might be holding you back?

[Struggler123]

I’m not holding up well at all today ,I was literally one finger push on a text to her and I backed off... .so I’m not exactly a prime example and what to do but I’ve managed to hold off.I just want her back so badly but I repeat everything I’ve weitten to you to myself.Now I’ve convinced myself on a big business trips drive Wednesday maybe I should call her or text her ? Stupid huh ? Yeah I have two days to convince myself to NOT do that !

It’s okay I get that feeling at times too, but I realized that keeping myself busy works really well. I just avoid being home, and just keep telling myself its not worth it. Like you told me, don’t lose your dignity and self respect.  That text is temporary but the side effects can be permanent. I’m sure you will be able to pull through. I’m not exactly the best example either, but sometimes when two people go through similar situations, its easier to find one common solution.  My ex is like salt and pepper she sprinkles herself in once a week, just to indicate that I lost someone and i’ll never find anyone like her. But, at the end of the day, I like to think of it like this, if she can’t be happy with her fiance she will never be happy with me, because that means she makes impuslive decisons without consequences, Yes I did lose someone, and that makes me feel worthless at times, but I gave her the best of me and thats something I don’t regret. But, as far as I can remember,  we should never make permanent decisons based on temporary feelings. I may feel conflicted at times, but once I make myself unavailable it is only then I can be the person I am meant to be to someone else that will give me the same things in a relationship that I gave her.

i think at a certain point in the Detaching process, we have to take it by the horns, and take active steps, some of which are mentally and/or emotionally hard.

do you know what steps you might take? do you know what might be holding you back?

It’s like I know what I have to do but, it feels so difficult. Well I was just thinking of blocking her number once in for all but, I feel like the bashing emails will stsrt coming in and im just trying to avoid conflict. I was hoping that now that she only calls every once in 2 weeks, ill just slowly not pick up anymore. It’s sometimes a blur but thats what I was thinking to resolve in a clean manner. I think its unreasonable to expect her to understand the idea of what I wanted and I’m not competing with the new guy. I think any reasonable guy, would let her do her thing and not create a drama circle. Honestly, its the fact that i do still have feelings for her but thats normal. These feelings will fade with time, and I think she knows that so she throws in curve balls every now and then.

[zachira]

I have been thinking about why it is so hard to detach and I have come to the conclusion that there is just so much work to do on filling our lives with people that treat us with love and respect. Sometimes we are so programmed to be taken in by the wrong people, and we keep in contact with these people hoping to get a different result which never is going to happen with people with full blown BPD. I suggest that we all observe how different it is to interact with someone who is comfortable in their own skin, respects others and themselves. Sometimes I know I have rejected the healthiest people because I did not feel worthy of them and they were so down to earth, almost to the point of boring. Just my thoughts, about taking small steps to make big changes.

[Struggler123]

I have been thinking about why it is so hard to detach and I have come to the conclusion that there is just so much work to do on filling our lives with people that treat us with love and respect. Sometimes we are so programmed to be taken in by the wrong people, and we keep in contact with these people hoping to get a different result which never is going to happen with people with full blown BPD. I suggest that we all observe how different it is to interact with someone who is comfortable in their own skin, respects others and themselves. Sometimes I know I have rejected the healthiest people because I did not feel worthy of them and they were so down to earth, almost to the point of boring. Just my thoughts, about taking small steps to make big changes.

I read this and I realized i’m at fault too because I really dont understand what I want. It’s almost as if I’m doing the same push and pull mechanism. I certainly agree that we allow us to settle for less and thats a problem itself. I also realized that I am more attracted to people that I can “save” per say. I have this inner mechanism that makes me think I can solve any problem, except my own. I learned that through communication and talking on this forum. I’m conflicted to this, and I’ll explain through an incident. She called and I didn’t pick up. The next time she called, I picked up. We spoke and she talked about how she missed me and all the “good times” we had, and I told her that I did too, but things aren’t the same. I just don’t get it at times, because I see her now and I really do regret it at times that maybe I made a mistake, its like shes a different person. After that, she tells me I should date someone, since now I’m experienced in the dating field and i’m just thrown off, because I feel like if I date someone new, she wouldn’t be happy about me talking to my ex in this manner. It’s making me question my morals and values, and I sometimes feel like maybe, my biggest mistake was falling so hard, instead of taking it piece by piece.

[40days_in_desert]

She is showing how she respects her partner by talking to her ex (you) which is no respect at all. My ex has brought up getting back together several times and she has been with another man for three years. It dawned on me one day - she most likely would do the same to me if we ever got back together. "What you do for me, you will do to me." Matter of fact, she did do it to me.
Maybe your ex isn't talking about getting back together but her carrying on any relationship or contact with you shows disrespect to the man that she is engaged to. Unless he knows and is ok with it. I doubt that he knows but maybe he is different than most.

[Struggler123]

She is showing how she respects her partner by talking to her ex (you) which is no respect at all. My ex has brought up getting back together several times and she has been with another man for three years. It dawned on me one day - she most likely would do the same to me if we ever got back together. "What you do for me, you will do to me." Matter of fact, she did do it to me.
Maybe your ex isn't talking about getting back together but her carrying on any relationship or contact with you shows disrespect to the man that she is engaged to. Unless he knows and is ok with it. I doubt that he knows but maybe he is different than most.

It sometimes makes me feel guilty that I am talking to her, and she knows what buttons to press. I am guilty of not being able to keep a guard up, I kept it up for a while but I couldn’t perform the actions for it. I would eventually pick up her call and then I thought that sometimes we always want what we cant have. I never wanted to make her feel unwanted, but sometimes it just can’t be planned in a simple way. I completely do understand that, and thats something I have thought about for a long time. It’s one of the reasons that, initially she told me if I would put a ring on it, she would leave the new guy and that theres no question about it, but I told her thats not the kind of person I am. I want to stand up on my feet before I tell someone that I want to spend the rest of my life with them and have kids with them. The way I imagined it was like this, today im getting ultimatiums for an engagement, tomorrow i’ll be getting them for a marriage, and then the next day for a house. It’s the same pattern just needs evolve. I’m not even sure what to believe, because it really seems to me like she made an impulsive decision and now she wants someone else to take the fall for it.

[zachira]

You say she made an impulsive decision and wants someone else to take the fall for it. It sounds like you are realizing that you are being dumped with her feelings once again. She knows you are a kind and caring guy, and you will feel the sorrow that she can't deal with. She needs to feel badly about her choices for what she has done, and if you feel worse than she does, than she does not have to take any responsibility for her actions, and it sounds like she never will.
I hope you don't mind if I give you an example of how projection, the dumping of unwanted feelings on another, works. A woman can't deal with her angry feelings, so she picks a fight with her husband who gets angry. If the husband had healthy emotional boundaries, that he would not let himself get more angry than she is, and would try to stay as calm as possible. Not an easy task to say the least, and one we deal with people with BPD on a regular basis. And of course, we sometimes ending up feeling the other person's feelings as we are human and affected by the emotions of others, especially with a person we have/had an intimate relationship with.
What I am trying to say is, that there are no easy choices here. It is up to you to decide if you want to take her calls and try to help her. There is no right or wrong decision, just what feels right for you, and this can change. You are certainly in no way responsible for how unhappy she is that she blew a relationship with a caring and kind guy.
Keep us posted and let us know how you are doing.

[once removed]

she knows what buttons to press

i think two things are going on:

1. she wants a close friendship with you. she wants to maintain that connection. the way shes going about it is inappropriate in that its hurtful to you, and its inappropriate to her fiancee.

2. while i dont think its a scheme, or anything well thought out, i do think shes naturally trying what works every time. on some level she knows its inappropriate because as she said, she "feels like she cant talk about these things with you"... .but then she does anyway, when she senses you distancing. and it works. you engage on an emotional level.

i think youre pushing and pulling, and i think shes pulling.

there are certainly a few ways to approach this.

phasing things out slowly, which you seem to be leaning toward, is one of them. but i think you have to take active steps in order for that to happen. it may mean setting limits (not on her, but on yourself) on these discussions and their nature and how you engage. naturally, as you do this, and detach, she will probably push for that emotional connection... .bring up the good times, bring up things with her fiancee, whatever works. anticipate this, dont take the bait, and things will probably take their natural course. this will take a heavy and consistent commitment on your end.

blocking her is another. im not really one to advocate it. i wouldnt blame you in this case if you said your goodbye, and then severed ties completely. i sense that this would be pretty hard for you.

you can always tell her you need your space (either indicate how long or not) and then firmly take it - dont contact her, dont answer her contacts. this one is probably messier, for both of you, in this case.

above all, i think examining the ways in which you are hanging on will make your path a bit clearer.

[Struggler123]

You say she made an impulsive decision and wants someone else to take the fall for it. It sounds like you are realizing that you are being dumped with her feelings once again. She knows you are a kind and caring guy, and you will feel the sorrow that she can't deal with. She needs to feel badly about her choices for what she has done, and if you feel worse than she does, than she does not have to take any responsibility for her actions, and it sounds like she never will.
I hope you don't mind if I give you an example of how projection, the dumping of unwanted feelings on another, works. A woman can't deal with her angry feelings, so she picks a fight with her husband who gets angry. If the husband had healthy emotional boundaries, that he would not let himself get more angry than she is, and would try to stay as calm as possible. Not an easy task to say the least, and one we deal with people with BPD on a regular basis. And of course, we sometimes ending up feeling the other person's feelings as we are human and affected by the emotions of others, especially with a person we have/had an intimate relationship with.
What I am trying to say is, that there are no easy choices here. It is up to you to decide if you want to take her calls and try to help her. There is no right or wrong decision, just what feels right for you, and this can change. You are certainly in no way responsible for how unhappy she is that she blew a relationship with a caring and kind guy.
Keep us posted and let us know how you are doing.

I think it may be projection considering she doesn’t know her emotions to well. It could possibly even be the fact that shes in lovecwith the idea of marriage just not in love with the new guy. I remember asking her once do you love him and she was like he loves me. It was kind of sad but oncebshe told me she was happy that was the last time I wanted to speak to her and from there she just wouldnt stop contact.  I dont know whats right or wrong, but I fo know that I dont want to hold feelings for her anymore. She made her impulsive decision and she should own up to it. I can’t save everyone I can only save myself. I hope the new guy can do what I couldn’t do.

i think two things are going on:

1. she wants a close friendship with you. she wants to maintain that connection. the way shes going about it is inappropriate in that its hurtful to you, and its inappropriate to her fiancee.

2. while i dont think its a scheme, or anything well thought out, i do think shes naturally trying what works every time. on some level she knows its inappropriate because as she said, she "feels like she cant talk about these things with you"... .but then she does anyway, when she senses you distancing. and it works. you engage on an emotional level.

i think youre pushing and pulling, and i think shes pulling.

there are certainly a few ways to approach this.

phasing things out slowly, which you seem to be leaning toward, is one of them. but i think you have to take active steps in order for that to happen. it may mean setting limits (not on her, but on yourself) on these discussions and their nature and how you engage. naturally, as you do this, and detach, she will probably push for that emotional connection... .bring up the good times, bring up things with her fiancee, whatever works. anticipate this, dont take the bait, and things will probably take their natural course. this will take a heavy and consistent commitment on your end.

blocking her is another. im not really one to advocate it. i wouldnt blame you in this case if you said your goodbye, and then severed ties completely. i sense that this would be pretty hard for you.

you can always tell her you need your space (either indicate how long or not) and then firmly take it - dont contact her, dont answer her contacts. this one is probably messier, for both of you, in this case.

above all, i think examining the ways in which you are hanging on will make your path a bit clearer.

I think thats true that she still wants to be close with me, but I think its gor the wrong reasons. Its more of a if it foesnt work out at least theres someone that still cares about me and will help pick up pieces, even if its at the cost of me losing myself. And the second is that, her idea if friendship means no changes meaning we still talk like bf and gf and thats the wrong idea.

She was asking me about why I didnt tell her to wait and that how come I didnt tell her i loved her, its things like these which makes me question that she is trying to get out of the arrangement, but she knows I won’t so she’s pretending to settle.

I tried the blocking thing and no contact its a recipe for drama. It seems to her that i’m playing hard to get but, at this point im just trying to be at that stage where I no longer care anymore. I have good self control and i’ll never call her or text her. She’s the one making contact everytime despite telling her its wrong, and she’s like all we’re doing is talking so I just thought that by showing her no emotion to things she said would be the best thing to do and if she says something inapporpriate and uncomfortable, i’ll just tell her and without warning block her and take all the precautions. It’s just sad that despite everything, im still trying to let her walk away with her pride even if it means losing mine.

[zachira]

It seems that your best options may be to improve your boundaries with her: Limit the length of time you talk with her on the phone. Do not call her back. Be aware when you are taking on her feelings, and then hang up. I think as you continue to work on not taking on her feelings, and making the contact less rewarding for her and less triggering for you, that you will eventually not hear from her anymore and/or you will be so indifferent to her that you will not allow her to contact you anymore. It is a painful and long process recovering from a bad relationship, and I admire your courage in examining your feelings while at the same time continuing to be the kind caring guy that you have always been. There are so many people who just stuff their feelings after a bad relationship ends, and then they just continue to have one bad relationship after another. You are well on your way to finding partners that can reciprocate love, that know how to give and take.

[Jeffree]

I don’t know why I picked up, or what’s right and what’s wrong anymore.

This really becomes a mystery when dealing with our pwBPD, doesn't it? No matter what we do, no matter what we say, no matter how fair we try to be in our communication with them, no matter how clear we try to be, we are always left with the empty feeling inside when all they can do is minimize and dismiss entirely any good we tried to stand for in their lives.

I find this one of the most devastating aspects of my now ending marriage.

J

 

[Struggler123]

It seems that your best options may be to improve your boundaries with her: Limit the length of time you talk with her on the phone. Do not call her back. Be aware when you are taking on her feelings, and then hang up. I think as you continue to work on not taking on her feelings, and making the contact less rewarding for her and less triggering for you, that you will eventually not hear from her anymore and/or you will be so indifferent to her that you will not allow her to contact you anymore. It is a painful and long process recovering from a bad relationship, and I admire your courage in examining your feelings while at the same time continuing to be the kind caring guy that you have always been. There are so many people who just stuff their feelings after a bad relationship ends, and then they just continue to have one bad relationship after another. You are well on your way to finding partners that can reciprocate love, that know how to give and take.

Thank you zachira for your advice and thoughts.  I think that is the best way to go about it. I think part of my problem is that, a part of me wanted to believe that this new guy thing was all make believe considering the amount of times she would threaten me that she would be with someone else, if I didn’t step up. Now I look back at it and I remember me saying don’t marry someone you are not whole heartedly able to fulfill the relationship with because you will destroy his life and yours and as for me, i’ll always still be the caring person that wont tell you told you so but, won’t be waiting with open arms.  Thank you that means alot. I am the kind of person that always tries to understand people before jumping to conclusions and I feel the same with her but her logic makes no sense to me. After a long time I forgave myself, simply because if I had asked her to wait, she would’ve hated me everytime saying so when are you gonna put a ring on it, and that would have been the anthem until I would have been like if you really want to leave then leave, similar to what other people on this forum experienced. I sometimes hope that, she does understand that, I wanted what was best for the future, and even now i’m not concerne about my feelings because they will subside but, if her fiance ends it with her she will blame me and that’s wrong, because she made the progression, I just followed all the instructions.

I don’t know why I picked up, or what’s right and what’s wrong anymore.

This really becomes a mystery when dealing with our pwBPD, doesn't it? No matter what we do, no matter what we say, no matter how fair we try to be in our communication with them, no matter how clear we try to be, we are always left with the empty feeling inside when all they can do is minimize and dismiss entirely any good we tried to stand for in their lives.

I find this one of the most devastating aspects of my now ending marriage.

J

 

It really does at times, how can you give someone so much and expect nothing and still have it come tochaunt you. Its like the feeling of their emptyness is projected on to us. Only difference is we tend to think it over everyday they just think sbiut it in the moment. Once the moment subsides so do the feelings until the next day, just different triggers. It’s kind of strange that, everytime I’ve mentioned my story, I barely see anyone thats married/with kids with a BPD have an improving outcome or a success story, it kind of hurts me at times because its the same pattern of behavoir in different forms shapes and sizes. I used to let these things remind me of why it wouldnt work but now I realize how wrong it was, because at the end of the day the person without BPD is destroyed, and hurt. Is it conflicting it certainly is, but a wise person once told me sometimes a relationship is too good to stay but too bad to not leave. Its just walking away, that makes it so hard. At one point, I tell myself that if I just see a picture of her with a ring it will trigger me enough, to never talk to her and then another part tells me how my anger would hide the hurt.

[zachira]

Jeffree,
We want so badly to hear that the person who hurt us so deeply tell us that we matter to them in some way and they care about our feelings. Not likely to happen, and then we wonder did they every really love us at all, and am I complete fool to have fallen for this person. I am presently dealing with a crush that I have on an emotionally unavailable man and I am forcing myself to do things that I am passionate about and to spend more time with friends and family that are capable of emotional intimacy, and are kind, caring ethical people. One of the best strategies I find is to take 30-40 minutes a day in quiet time and to let the difficult emotions float away. I also do this when I feel triggered. You will some day be healed from your painful marriage because of your bravery in looking at the hurt and your willingness to find out what you have to do to find a partner for a genuine reciprocal loving relationship.

[Struggler123]

I’m really conflicted she says that she doesn’t know if she wants to get married and go through this arrangement. She says something doesn’t feel right. To which I told her that this is something she should discuss amongst her and those invovled. I can’t advise her as all I want is what is best for her. She then told me she hates being in this situation and that its my fault. She says it felt so right between us and then I told her I’m sorry I don’t know what to tell you so i’ll stop talking and then she said why cant you be a friend to me. At that point, I said sorry again. I just told her I want whats best for her and for her to not make permnanet decisions on temporary feelings.

Now I don’t know what to say/or do. I just created a mess and now she will blame me as usual. It’s like either way I get the bad end of the stick. I could really use advice on what to say.

[Shawnlam]

I’m really conflicted she says that she doesn’t know if she wants to get married and go through this arrangement. She says something doesn’t feel right. To which I told her that this is something she should discuss amongst her and those invovled. I can’t advise her as all I want is what is best for her. She then told me she hates being in this situation and that its my fault. She says it felt so right between us and then I told her I’m sorry I don’t know what to tell you so i’ll stop talking and then she said why cant you be a friend to me. At that point, I said sorry again. I just told her I want whats best for her and for her to not make permnanet decisions on temporary feelings.

Now I don’t know what to say/or do. I just created a mess and now she will blame me as usual. It’s like either way I get the bad end of the stick. I could really use advice on what to say.

Is just tell her If I was in your shoes “ look (insert name here), you are a grown woman and only you know what’s best for you.Im the last person you should be asking given I’m your ex bf.Do what your heart wants to do , just make sure whatever path you chose ,you need to live with the outcome good or bad.Thats what I would say .