Divorce negotiations turning hostile...

[Before you can make things better, you have to stop making them worse...]

Hi again…
 
I’m going through the divorce process with my uBPDstbxw. I left in January after months of misery (suicide/divorce threats from her etc.) and had to go NC because her behavior was not appropriate (she would not stop trying to find me, showed up at events she thought I would be at, yelled at our friends etc.).
 
Since then, things calmed down for a while. My L sent her and her L a proposed settlement so that we can avoid going to a formal arbitration that will cost thousands of dollars. My stbxw emailed me in a panic about being kicked out of the house. Not wanting to go to arbitration, I asked my L about responding to my stbxw’s email and my L agreed it might be a good idea to see if it would calm her down and let her know that I’m willing to work out a reasonable agreement before arbitration in 2 weeks. My stbxw’s response was surprisingly very welcoming to the idea, she asked me if I would take her/our cats to the vet while she was out of town (I miss our cats…), agreed to keep things civil etc. I asked if she’d be willing to meet in person in a public place to discuss the details of the settlement, to which she agreed.
 
That’s where it takes a bad turn… In my first email response, I told her I would work the settlement out as long as things stayed civil and on the topic of our settlement, not the emotional side of our divorce. Yesterday she sent me an email that started with a paragraph to the affect of: “My travel itinerary for when you can take the cats is _________, can you unblock my phone number so you can text me about how the cats are doing?”
 
Then the rest of the several paragraphs long email was calling me and all of my friends liars and terrible people. 
 
Then she sent an email demanding that we meet in person (after the hostile email I got from her, I told her a phone call would be best) to discuss our settlement.
 
Then she sent an email stating she wants to postpone arbitration because she will be in school.
 
I’m starting to think this was never a serious consideration on her part and has all just been a game.
 
I’m debating now whether I should:
 
1.   Tell her that I’m still willing to do a phone call to discuss our settlement but that meeting in person is not OK anymore given her tone?
2.   Tell her that we should proceed to arbitration as scheduled and forego any further negotiations without our attorneys?

[utnapishtim428]

Hi again…
 
I’m going through the divorce process with my uBPDstbxw. I left in January after months of misery (suicide/divorce threats from her etc.) and had to go NC because her behavior was not appropriate (she would not stop trying to find me, showed up at events she thought I would be at, yelled at our friends etc.).
 
Since then, things calmed down for a while. My L sent her and her L a proposed settlement so that we can avoid going to a formal arbitration that will cost thousands of dollars. My stbxw emailed me in a panic about being kicked out of the house. Not wanting to go to arbitration, I asked my L about responding to my stbxw’s email and my L agreed it might be a good idea to see if it would calm her down and let her know that I’m willing to work out a reasonable agreement before arbitration in 2 weeks. My stbxw’s response was surprisingly very welcoming to the idea, she asked me if I would take her/our cats to the vet while she was out of town (I miss our cats…), agreed to keep things civil etc. I asked if she’d be willing to meet in person in a public place to discuss the details of the settlement, to which she agreed.
 
That’s where it takes a bad turn… In my first email response, I told her I would work the settlement out as long as things stayed civil and on the topic of our settlement, not the emotional side of our divorce. Yesterday she sent me an email that started with a paragraph to the affect of: “My travel itinerary for when you can take the cats is _________, can you unblock my phone number so you can text me about how the cats are doing?”
 
Then the rest of the several paragraphs long email was calling me and all of my friends liars and terrible people. 
 
Then she sent an email demanding that we meet in person (after the hostile email I got from her, I told her a phone call would be best) to discuss our settlement.
 
Then she sent an email stating she wants to postpone arbitration because she will be in school.
 
I’m starting to think this was never a serious consideration on her part and has all just been a game.
 
I’m debating now whether I should:
 
1.   Tell her that I’m still willing to do a phone call to discuss our settlement but that meeting in person is not OK anymore given her tone?
2.   Tell her that we should proceed to arbitration as scheduled and forego any further negotiations without our attorneys?

[livednlearned]

You may want to try a BIFF (brief, informative, factual, friendly) response to her.

"It is difficult for me to be called names, and I don't feel good or think well when things get hostile. I will communicate by phone to discuss the settlement, and if things get heated, I will end the conversation. If you feel you can talk to me without getting angry, please propose a day and time to discuss the settlement. If that feels too difficult right now, I will schedule a time to discuss the settlement in arbitration. Please let me know by date/time what you feel prepared to do. If I don't hear from you, I will contact my lawyer so we can get arbitration going."

This would give her one opportunity to be civil, and a consequence for not doing so, as well as a deadline that is acceptable for you and your needs.

Then stick to that boundary. You cannot let her keep moving the goal posts otherwise you will send the message that there are no firm rules.

In general, people who are intensely emotionally aroused don't handle stress well, and dysregulated emotions aren't conducive to problem solving. She may be able to stay regulated for short periods of time, but the prospect of being alone and managing on her own will upset her equilibrium.

It might be good to prepare for arbitration in your mind, knowing that anything short of that would be a small miracle 

[ForeverDad]

I discovered that my lengthy, detailed, logical, explanatory texts and emails would trigger my ex.  So I agree that brief and simple does work best.

In addition you do need some boundaries in your communications.  Without limits the ex will feel entitled to run roughshod over you.  Any time you make exceptions to your boundaries, make clear it is a one-time exception, otherwise she may conclude you've just changed (weakened) your boundary.

Another thing my ex did and does is to start okay sometimes but then devolve into a rant and ragefest.  Then once she had her say she'd hang up on me.  For some obvious reason she felt perfectly entitled to rant, rage and hang up on me but how dare I hang up on her.  In her mind her rules applied to me but not to her.

[david]

I tried talking, mediation, counseling, etc. Eventually the only thing that worked for me was email only communication. You need to try what you think is best for your situation. I actually got rid of texting to stop it. I also stopped answering my phone unless Knew where the call was coming from. My ex called from numerous numbers. Sometimes she would leave a voicemail. I would put those numbers in my phonebook so I knew it was her.
The emails didn't stop the yelling. She would capitalize things when she was yelling at me. However, the noise wasn't there so it was easier to deal with.
My emails are short and to the point. I do not explain or ask questions. I state facts and usually use three to five sentences. There are exceptions but they are few. We have kids together so total NC is not possible.

[kells76]

Hi utnapishtim,

How have things been going for you over the last few days?

kells76

[utnapishtim428]

Things are still up and down but contact has become fairly frequent from her side and I try to keep it strictly business. On Saturday she called me at 3am because someone ran into her car... .I told her to call police/insurance company to sort it out but then she started talking about our marriage again; I got off the phone with her after about 15 minutes. Then on  monday she texted me that I’m the love of her life and she wants to fight for me (it was the date that I proposed to her).

I’m anxious because our anniversary is coming up. I’m going to tell her that since we aren’t making progress on divorce negotiations that we should revert back to email-only contact and then only in emergencies. I’ve started dating someone else (my stbexuBPD doesn’t know this person but she has said “I know you’re dating someone!”) I’m really scared that she will sabotage this new, very positive relationship that I have. I think I’m going to send her a text breaking off contact again before our anniversary in a couple of weeks... .maybe this will further trigger her or keep her calm? She seems to be more agitated when we have contact.

I was thinking about sending the following:

Thanks for letting me know about the car. I put $500 into our joint account yesterday from my account. I’ll add another $500 today and that should take care of your car rental while they do the repairs.

I also wanted to let you know that I’m going to go back to just email contact with you since I think we’ve discussed the settlement as much as we could and it will be better for both of us emotionally to reduce our contact. Please keep email contact to emergencies only. Thanks.

[kells76]

Good to hear from you again. Sounds like even though your ex is trying to escalate/"love bomb" you around a memorable date, you are still committed to moving forward with separating/divorcing. Yes?

Here's some feedback on your idea of what to send her:

Thanks for letting me know about the car. I put $500 into our joint account yesterday from my account. I’ll add another $500 today and that should take care of your car rental while they do the repairs.

Sounds good. You can even consider ending it after "I'll add another $500 today" with something like "and then I'll be done adding money", maybe? Will she know it's for her car rental? Would she use the "should take care of your car rental while they do the repairs" to argue about? Hope that isn't too nitpicky. Sometimes I can be kind of... .extreme... .when it comes to the "Brief" part of BIFF communication   Because you know her better than I do, you'll know what will work for her.

Nice job on the "Thanks for letting me know about... ." sentence. That's a keeper.

I also wanted to let you know that I’m going to go back to just email contact with you since I think we’ve discussed the settlement as much as we could and it will be better for both of us emotionally to reduce our contact. Please keep email contact to emergencies only. Thanks.

Here's an alternative to consider:

I also wanted to let you know that I’m going to go back to just email contact with you since I think we’ve discussed the settlement as much as we could and it will be better for both of us emotionally to reduce our contact. Please keep email contact to emergencies only. Thanks.

That would take out some of the "Justification" and "Explanation" that can trigger some pwBPD. Plus, you can think about whether you owe her an explanation for you doing your boundaries. Sometimes things do go better when we explain our boundaries to high conflict people. Sometimes things go worse, and we need to just "do" instead of "say" the boundary.

Hope these ideas are helpful! Thanks for sharing with us how things are going.

kells76

[BeagleGirl]

Here's an alternative to consider:

I also wanted to let you know that I’m going to go back to just email contact with you since I think we’ve discussed the settlement as much as we could and it will be better for both of us emotionally to reduce our contact. Please keep email contact to emergencies only.

I think it also might be helpful to say something like “I will only be responding to communication directly related to divorce negotiations.” Or something like that. It’s a good reminder that your boundaries dictate your behavior even if she chooses to violate them by trying to discuss your relationship.
BG

[ForeverDad]

I wonder, why isn't the auto insurance covering the rental?  I think that's standard, unless it's a no-frills policy?  Or maybe it will eventually but she sees this as a way to get contact, and extra money?

[livednlearned]

She will probably need to test the boundaries. You can always tell her what you will and won't do, but then you have to follow through.

That means no picking up the phone at 3am.

If you say you won't, and then you do, it just tells her to keep trying harder. Eventually she will breach the wall.

Also, in my experience, setting a new boundary usually escalates things initially (extinction burst) before the behavior dies off. If you feel wobbly on the boundary setting, it might be easier to wait until after the anniversary. Give yourself some room to waver -- maybe you only respond to one out of 10 calls. Then down to 5. Maybe on the anniversary you pick up the phone and tell her you're getting in an elevator or something   Or whatever makes it easier for you to take care of yourself.

For me, I had to ease into boundaries slowly with difficult people because going cold turkey created too much angst, which led to guilt and other feelings I had a hard time managing.

Once you get good at this stuff, it gets easier. But when you start, give yourself some latitude 

[utnapishtim428]

Great advice and thanks for the responses... .I’m definitely committed to the divorce. As hard as it’s been for the last year, my life is finally taking a turn for the better. I don’t want to turn back now... .I also think my stbx is making positive strides for herself without me to lean on all the time, even though she doesn’t realize it herself.

I’m going to follow up with my insurance company to verify what my stbx said about the rental car. I wanted her to figure it out without my help so she stops thinking she can come to me with every little thing. Good to verify before I send any more money though.

Maintaining the boundaries is very difficult, especially when trying to negotiate the divorce. I do have a rule for our phone contact that I’ve maintained though... .I don’t answer the phone without a text or email explaining why we need to talk, so at least that’s something and it gives me a reason to terminate the call when it inevitably diverges to a bad place.  I think I may wait until after the anniversary to send my note so she doesn’t get suspicious, but it depends on her behavior between now and then (as her behavior after I left demonstrated, she will probably go into an extinction burst). If she doesn’t stop texting/calling then I won’t have a choice and I’ll break off any non-email contact.

[livednlearned]

I wanted her to figure it out without my help so she stops thinking she can come to me with every little thing.

Asking validating questions can be really helpful with this. If you find yourself on a call with her while she's in a meltdown, you can ask questions like, "That sounds awful. What are you planning to do?"

https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=273415.msg12586025#msg12586025

I learned this with my SD21 who is bipolar/BPD. She presents herself as helpless and always in a crisis, but then resents (usually her dad) when people try to help. She wants to feel competent, and isn't sure she can be. Validating questions seems to soothe her emotionally so she can do the thinking necessary to solve her own problems.

I never offer her solutions but I'm getting pretty good at asking her questions