The Adventures of BeagleGirl

[Beware of Junk Psychology...]

Hi all.  I've been pretty quiet on the boards the past few weeks for reasons that will be come clear below.

My therapist gets to hear about my (mis)adventures on a regular basis and recently made the comment that my life is like a sitcom.  I think it's had some drama flavor to it lately, but tend to agree.  I know that my favorite TV shows are not only entertaining, but also lead to some self reflection.  With that in mind, I present to you the latest episodes of "The Adventures of BeagleGirl".  This will be an extended episode.

For those of you just tuning in... .
BeagleGirl has been divorced from dBPDxh since the end of May.  dBPDxh is now granted only bit parts on the show since he's in negotiations to have his own spin off - "So You're Dating the Church Secretary".  I suspect the ratings will be poor because, really, haven't we seen that plot line more than once?

So the adventure continues with:

I went out to California to help my mom with grandma's funeral.  My grandma passed down to me a love of laughter and singing, often at inappropriate times.  Grandma loved people and she loved life, so the funeral was a celebration.  In fact, the funeral coordinator commented that she had never seen a family laugh the whole time their loved one's casket was being lowered into the grave, and it was one of the most beautiful things she had ever seen.  I inspired the laughter at that (inappropriate?) time by relaying the meaning of the straw and bell in the casket.  We could almost hear grandma laughing along with us.

I had some FOO drama to deal with while in CA.  I did some "truth telling" to my mom about dBPDxh's behavior towards me and our kids and it was well received and I feel like it helped both of us.  She now has some answers to the "why" of the breakdown of my marriage and some of dBPDxh's behaviors towards her and my dad (the timing of the beginning of his relationship with the church secretary coincided with him "ghosting" my parents).  I got to see a response from her that indicated that she wasn't going to try to shift the blame for dBPDxh's actions onto me (that's my dad's response) and she shared some things about my dad's treatment of her that makes it easier for me to see that his treatment of me speaks more to who he is than who I am.  That was solidified when my dad chose not to go to the funeral.  He has some health problems but admitted to my brother that he wasn't feeling that bad.  In my mind you support your spouse during something like this unless you are in the hospital.  I didn't get that world view from my dad.

I ended up sleeping overnight in the Denver airport as I tried to make my way from the funeral to a business trip in Nebraska.  That was quite the adventure.  I came home from the business trip exhausted then faced the need to euthanize one of my older dogs and help my younger son (who was still in California) deal with that grief long distance, not to mention dealing with my own. 

Then S15 got home from CA last Wednesday and I picked back up my "normal" schedule of work and parenting for the remainder of last week.  I nearly had him again this week because dBPDxh is moving into his new house and wanted me to keep S15 an extra week.  I have no objection to the extra time with S15, but dBPDxh has missed 3 custody weeks this summer and I am afraid S15 would start to feel like dBPDxh doesn't want him (which he kinda doesn't), so I expressed that concern to dBPDxh and strongly suggested he consider keeping the normal custody arrangement and letting S15 help with the move.

Yesterday was my last day teaching Sunday School at the church I've attended for nearly 14 years and that holds its own grieving process.  It's a bit uncomfortable continuing to attend a services there when dBPDxh is dating the church secretary.  The pain isn't eliminated, but is softened by the fact that I've found a new church home.  The past 6 weeks I have been teaching my Sunday School class then jamming to a different church for worship time.  The second church I visited really resonated with me on all levels.  I snuck out without talking to anyone the first week, but the second week the pastor was standing behind my chair when the closing song was over and invited me to join him and his wife for dinner that week.  They have been incredibly welcoming and caring through my grandmother's and dog's death and the services have continued to bless and encourage me. 

Now for the romantic(?) plot line:

Neighbor B has been divorced for about 4 years and has two kids - D11 and S9.  We've run into each other at neighborhood events over the years, but not much interaction to speak of.  Then last Thanksgiving he was out walking his dog while I was scrubbing the mildew off the foot bridge in my front yard.  We pretty quickly established that we were doing these unconventional things on Thanksgiving morning because our kids were with our respective exes, which confirmed for him that dBPDh was in the process of becoming dBPDxh.  He mentioned that it would be fun to go see a movie together, which I thought was a bit bold given my marital status, but could also have just been friendly.  I kept interaction to waving after that, but once my divorce was final decided Neighbor B might be a good person to talk to about the adjustments I was going through.  No spark for me, just "it would be nice to have a friend who has been through this".   Well, a few conversations in I decide that it might be fun to flirt a tiny little bit, and Neighbor B seems happy to comply.  He suggested dinner on a couple occasions, which could easily be construed as just "hey, our power is off in the neighborhood and we both need to eat, soo".  There was still not really a spark for me, and I wasn't sure I was ready for anything with anyone, so I dodged those offers with firm non-commitment. 

But then I started to feel that spark, and in clumsy BeagleGirl fashion I have managed to start to give clues that maybe I want to be chased after all.  Some of those have been highly entertaining to my therapist and friends, but I'll save those episodes for reruns. 

So now there's this blossoming "whatever this is" with Neighbor B.  He has been caring through this tough time, but everything could be construed as "just very friendly".  The day we euthanized our dog, after everyone else in the family was taken care of, Neighbor B offered to provide some distraction in the form of a trip to HomeDepot.  That turned into "Hungry?  Let's grab some food together." then "If you don't have plans for the evening I'd love for you to join me while I watch Black Panther at my place." then "I haven't watched Guardian's of the Galaxy Vol. 2 yet.  Wanna stay and watch it with me?"  We've found that we enjoy working on projects together (his thermostat, my bathroom vent fan) and there hasn't been a night in the past 2 weeks that we haven't ended with chatting while playing Words with Friends until one of us can't keep our eyes open and wishes the other sweet dreams.  We have plans to do another movie night at his place tomorrow and I've been invited to join him and his kids for Meet Me in St. Louis at an outdoor theater on Friday night.  I think I either have a very nice friendship or the start of something more going on. 

I'm trying to decide if I ask him what this is, or just wait for him to make a move that is clearly outside "friend" behavior.  I don't want to rush things by asking for a label, but I would like to have the conversation about how much involvement with his kids is comfortable for both of us if this might be more than friendship.  I think that he may be interested in something more, but taking things slow because he's aware of how recent my divorce was.  Or he's just a really good guy who recognizes someone who could be a good friend to him and his kids... .and really loves Words with Friends.  I think that I need to fight the urge to "control" the progression of this and give Neighbor B the opportunity to show who he is by setting the pace.  I also need to leave the parenting worries for HIS kids to HIM. 

Top that all off with a few montages of BeagleGirl training for a half marathon and spending each evening chatting/playing Words with Neighbor B and you're all caught up on The Adventures of BeagleGirl, and maybe understand why I've not made much time for bpdfamily lately.

Feel free to make suggestions to the script writers. 

[BeagleGirl]

Hi all.  I've been pretty quiet on the boards the past few weeks for reasons that will be come clear below.

My therapist gets to hear about my (mis)adventures on a regular basis and recently made the comment that my life is like a sitcom.  I think it's had some drama flavor to it lately, but tend to agree.  I know that my favorite TV shows are not only entertaining, but also lead to some self reflection.  With that in mind, I present to you the latest episodes of "The Adventures of BeagleGirl".  This will be an extended episode.

For those of you just tuning in... .
BeagleGirl has been divorced from dBPDxh since the end of May.  dBPDxh is now granted only bit parts on the show since he's in negotiations to have his own spin off - "So You're Dating the Church Secretary".  I suspect the ratings will be poor because, really, haven't we seen that plot line more than once?

So the adventure continues with:

I went out to California to help my mom with grandma's funeral.  My grandma passed down to me a love of laughter and singing, often at inappropriate times.  Grandma loved people and she loved life, so the funeral was a celebration.  In fact, the funeral coordinator commented that she had never seen a family laugh the whole time their loved one's casket was being lowered into the grave, and it was one of the most beautiful things she had ever seen.  I inspired the laughter at that (inappropriate?) time by relaying the meaning of the straw and bell in the casket.  We could almost hear grandma laughing along with us.

I had some FOO drama to deal with while in CA.  I did some "truth telling" to my mom about dBPDxh's behavior towards me and our kids and it was well received and I feel like it helped both of us.  She now has some answers to the "why" of the breakdown of my marriage and some of dBPDxh's behaviors towards her and my dad (the timing of the beginning of his relationship with the church secretary coincided with him "ghosting" my parents).  I got to see a response from her that indicated that she wasn't going to try to shift the blame for dBPDxh's actions onto me (that's my dad's response) and she shared some things about my dad's treatment of her that makes it easier for me to see that his treatment of me speaks more to who he is than who I am.  That was solidified when my dad chose not to go to the funeral.  He has some health problems but admitted to my brother that he wasn't feeling that bad.  In my mind you support your spouse during something like this unless you are in the hospital.  I didn't get that world view from my dad.

I ended up sleeping overnight in the Denver airport as I tried to make my way from the funeral to a business trip in Nebraska.  That was quite the adventure.  I came home from the business trip exhausted then faced the need to euthanize one of my older dogs and help my younger son (who was still in California) deal with that grief long distance, not to mention dealing with my own. 

Then S15 got home from CA last Wednesday and I picked back up my "normal" schedule of work and parenting for the remainder of last week.  I nearly had him again this week because dBPDxh is moving into his new house and wanted me to keep S15 an extra week.  I have no objection to the extra time with S15, but dBPDxh has missed 3 custody weeks this summer and I am afraid S15 would start to feel like dBPDxh doesn't want him (which he kinda doesn't), so I expressed that concern to dBPDxh and strongly suggested he consider keeping the normal custody arrangement and letting S15 help with the move.

Yesterday was my last day teaching Sunday School at the church I've attended for nearly 14 years and that holds its own grieving process.  It's a bit uncomfortable continuing to attend a services there when dBPDxh is dating the church secretary.  The pain isn't eliminated, but is softened by the fact that I've found a new church home.  The past 6 weeks I have been teaching my Sunday School class then jamming to a different church for worship time.  The second church I visited really resonated with me on all levels.  I snuck out without talking to anyone the first week, but the second week the pastor was standing behind my chair when the closing song was over and invited me to join him and his wife for dinner that week.  They have been incredibly welcoming and caring through my grandmother's and dog's death and the services have continued to bless and encourage me. 

Now for the romantic(?) plot line:

Neighbor B has been divorced for about 4 years and has two kids - D11 and S9.  We've run into each other at neighborhood events over the years, but not much interaction to speak of.  Then last Thanksgiving he was out walking his dog while I was scrubbing the mildew off the foot bridge in my front yard.  We pretty quickly established that we were doing these unconventional things on Thanksgiving morning because our kids were with our respective exes, which confirmed for him that dBPDh was in the process of becoming dBPDxh.  He mentioned that it would be fun to go see a movie together, which I thought was a bit bold given my marital status, but could also have just been friendly.  I kept interaction to waving after that, but once my divorce was final decided Neighbor B might be a good person to talk to about the adjustments I was going through.  No spark for me, just "it would be nice to have a friend who has been through this".   Well, a few conversations in I decide that it might be fun to flirt a tiny little bit, and Neighbor B seems happy to comply.  He suggested dinner on a couple occasions, which could easily be construed as just "hey, our power is off in the neighborhood and we both need to eat, soo".  There was still not really a spark for me, and I wasn't sure I was ready for anything with anyone, so I dodged those offers with firm non-commitment. 

But then I started to feel that spark, and in clumsy BeagleGirl fashion I have managed to start to give clues that maybe I want to be chased after all.  Some of those have been highly entertaining to my therapist and friends, but I'll save those episodes for reruns. 

So now there's this blossoming "whatever this is" with Neighbor B.  He has been caring through this tough time, but everything could be construed as "just very friendly".  The day we euthanized our dog, after everyone else in the family was taken care of, Neighbor B offered to provide some distraction in the form of a trip to HomeDepot.  That turned into "Hungry?  Let's grab some food together." then "If you don't have plans for the evening I'd love for you to join me while I watch Black Panther at my place." then "I haven't watched Guardian's of the Galaxy Vol. 2 yet.  Wanna stay and watch it with me?"  We've found that we enjoy working on projects together (his thermostat, my bathroom vent fan) and there hasn't been a night in the past 2 weeks that we haven't ended with chatting while playing Words with Friends until one of us can't keep our eyes open and wishes the other sweet dreams.  We have plans to do another movie night at his place tomorrow and I've been invited to join him and his kids for Meet Me in St. Louis at an outdoor theater on Friday night.  I think I either have a very nice friendship or the start of something more going on. 

I'm trying to decide if I ask him what this is, or just wait for him to make a move that is clearly outside "friend" behavior.  I don't want to rush things by asking for a label, but I would like to have the conversation about how much involvement with his kids is comfortable for both of us if this might be more than friendship.  I think that he may be interested in something more, but taking things slow because he's aware of how recent my divorce was.  Or he's just a really good guy who recognizes someone who could be a good friend to him and his kids... .and really loves Words with Friends.  I think that I need to fight the urge to "control" the progression of this and give Neighbor B the opportunity to show who he is by setting the pace.  I also need to leave the parenting worries for HIS kids to HIM. 

Top that all off with a few montages of BeagleGirl training for a half marathon and spending each evening chatting/playing Words with Neighbor B and you're all caught up on The Adventures of BeagleGirl, and maybe understand why I've not made much time for bpdfamily lately.

Feel free to make suggestions to the script writers. 

[Insom]

I hear a lot of speculating here about what you think he may want, but not much about what you want out of this aside from enjoying the flirting and attention.

What do you want with Neighbor B?  I know you've considered the complications re: your kiddos.  How do you feel today about more with Neighbor B?  What are the potential outcomes and impacts?  Do you like those outcomes?

[BeagleGirl]

What do you want with Neighbor B?  I know you've considered the complications re: your kiddos.  How do you feel today about more with Neighbor B?  What are the potential outcomes and impacts?  Do you like those outcomes?

I think my foremost goal with Neighbor B is friendship.  I am enjoying the companionship and banter and, yes, the attention.  I really enjoy time with him and with his kids.  I'm enjoying the process of getting to know each of them.

But I am finding myself also wanting more.  There's the physical component of it.  I want him to touch me (he does so in a non-sexual way pretty freely) and I want him to kiss me.  I'm not looking for sex with him any time soon.  I want to give my heart before I give my body, and I know that I have a ways to go before I could reasonably trust him with my heart.  But a little making out sounds nice.   

And there's the type and level of intimacy that you get with someone you see as a potential mate.  The discovery and "knowing" is different than with a friend.  I have friendships, both male and female, that are very intimate, but it's different with a potential romantic partner and I miss that.

Then there's the potential for long term partnership.  I'm not making any plans or spending much time dwelling on the future, but there are sometimes glimpses of what it could be like to live life with Neighbor B.  I believe in life long friendships but, again, it's different living life with someone day in and day out.  I would like to start to explore building that with someone.  Neighbor B may or may not be that person, but I think I want the experience of defining what I want in a mate and measuring him against that and having that process reciprocated.  I'm hoping that we can take things slow enough that we have a chance at maintaining a friendship even if we decide we're not suited for each other romantically, and have some fun along the way.

So I guess the outcome I'm hoping for is to the experience of getting to know Neighbor B and getting to know myself better as we figure out what we want with each other.  Obviously, things could go poorly and either or both of us could end up hurt, but I think I'm willing to take that risk.

BG

[Mustbeabetterway]

BeagleGirl,

You are too funny!  I often see my life as a sitcom, too.  Sounds like you successfully dealt with your FOO stuff.  Congratulations on that!

Interested to hear how things go with Neighbor B. 

Mustbe

[Turkish]

Speaking as a guy,  "he obviously likes you." Speaking as a guy, "the ball's on your court."

You've stated what you want and need.  What's healthy and realistic at this point,  however? Can you take it slowly?

[once removed]

neighbor b aside, thats a lot of grief on your shoulders.

how are you holding up BG?

[BeagleGirl]

neighbor b aside, thats a lot of grief on your shoulders.

how are you holding up BG?

I'm actually holding up pretty well.  on't take that to mean that I'm feeling great.  I'm crying pretty regularly and acknowledging the anger I'm feeling and taking time to feel the losses.  I'm leaning on my friends and therapist.  I've learned that "count your blessings" doesn't get rid of the hurt, but it does remind me of the resources I've been given to deal with the pain and what I have to look forward to on the other side of it.

Now for the latest episode of The Adventures of BeagleGirl.  This one is all about Neighbor B.

Neighbor B spotted a rainbow when taking his daughter shoe shopping on Monday and sent me a picture.  That kicked off texting back and forth as we each ran our individual errands and did stuff around our respective houses.  A whine from me about the fact that I really wanted a McDonald's ice cream cone but their machine was down resulted in an invite to have dessert with him and his daughter.  While I was there, his daughter was relating some of her dad's routines and mentioned his vitamin.  That led to him sharing that his "vitamin" was Paxil and that he needed it to treat anxiety.  He elaborated on his struggle with anxiety for both my sake and his daughter's, as I later learned that he has concerns that his daughter may be prone to anxiety.  When I got home and he re-initiated our text conversation I thanked him for sharing so openly and let him know both that I admired his openness with his daughter and that I understood, at least in part, his struggle with anxiety and had been on meds for anxiety and depression for a period of time.   We went on to other, lighter topics, including plans for Tuesday night; dinner at my place followed by a movie at his.  

We had some really good conversation over dinner.  We shared some more of our respective experiences with anxiety and the treatment thereof.  We shared our respective "This is how my marriage ended and where I am now" stories.  He asked a lot of questions about how my S15 has been dealing with the divorce and dBPDxh's moving on so soon and shared how he dealt with the same sort of situation with his kids.  This was where I started to get the feel that he had questions about my readiness/availability for anything more than friendship.  More on that later.

We went over to his place and talked a bit more before starting the movie and at "intermission" while taking his dog out for a potty break.  While watching the movie we quickly settled back into arms lightly touching, this time from shoulder to finger tip, and he was gradually leaning in a bit more over time.  I was reciprocating  with my own leaning in, but tried to just match his level, not push it further.  Surprisingly, I was able to relax and enjoy the movie.  It wasn't until I got back home and we were texting back and forth again that the confusion and desire to know what this was got the better of me.  So I texted the question "What is this for you?" and my phone started ringing.

We had a very good conversation.  Before we started "hanging out" he had decided to take a break from dating.  Our "whatever this is" has had him reconsidering that, but he also has been uncertain about my readiness for and interest in dating him.  He also feels that we could have a really good friendship and it would be a shame to endanger that by rushing into anything more.  He said he's been proceeding with a lot of (maybe too much) caution, but knew that he had been "leaning in" both literally and figuratively and understood my confusion.  He said he probably should have initiated this conversation earlier.  He then went on to express all the (very legitimate) concerns he has had about me and my readiness to date.  Some of them had been addressed by things I had shared that night, and some he feels like he needs to know me longer/better to address.  

Ultimately he wants to honor his decision to take a break from dating.  He didn't give a specific timeline, but knowing him I know he has a date in mind.  I suspect it coincides with the end of a big project he has going at work.  That doesn't mean that he'll be ready to date ME at that point, but he'll have had another 2 months of observation and progression of friendship at that point.  

So in the meantime we are working on establishing boundaries to limit the confusion we've both been feeling about whether this is friendship or something more.  We're discussing what level of interaction between me and his kids feels comfortable at this point in time and how that might change if we decided to explore something more down the line.  I'm committed to ending any flirtatious behaviors and asking him to limit physical touch to what would be natural for friends and not compliment my appearance (he told me I'm pretty towards the end of our conversation and that is hard for me to hear from a man without construing it as "romantic".  Stuff like that.

So we'll see if we can put the cat back in the bag and work on forming a friendship without reference to what more we might want in the future.  I know it will be a challenge, but if we can do that I have more hope for maintaining a friendship regardless of whether "something more" is in the cards for us.  I have to say that I developed a new level of respect for him after that conversation.  Both the fact that he was thinking through legitimate concerns and watching for specific red flags with me AND the fact that he was willing to have a candid conversation with me showed a level of emotional intelligence that I really appreciate.  Then there's the fact that he is willing to delay gratification and hold to a personal commitment.  I think Neighbor B is someone who is worth having as a friend and if we never decide to explore the "something more", that decision will have been made with someone I am coming to respect more the better I know him.

Any thoughts on how to manage the mutual interest in something more than friendship down the road that's now out in the open?  I'm trying to shift my mindset away from that possibility and think it may take a bit of time and some mindfulness during and around our future interactions.  Any tips would be appreciated.

BG

[Insom]

There's a fun and breezy quality to your posts about Neighbor B that Mustbeabetterway and your T have both noted with the sitcom analogy.  I know I've said this before, but I bet it feels great to get this attention from Neighbor B after all you went through with your ex.

Any thoughts on how to manage the mutual interest in something more than friendship down the road that's now out in the open?  I'm trying to shift my mindset away from that possibility and think it may take a bit of time and some mindfulness during and around our future interactions.  Any tips would be appreciated.

If I recall, Skip suggested in another post that a relationship with Neighbor B sounds potentially fraught because of your existing connection as neighbors with kiddos in the mix. 

How do you feel - for now while neither you nor Neighbor B sounds ready for anything serious - about meeting and dating someone easier?  How does the idea of going on some practice dates sound while you get used to receiving flirty, positive attention again?

[BeagleGirl]

How do you feel - for now while neither you nor Neighbor B sounds ready for anything serious - about meeting and dating someone easier?  How does the idea of going on some practice dates sound while you get used to receiving flirty, positive attention again?

Great question.  When I started feeling like I would be open to dating Neighbor B one of my best friends suggested that I get on a dating website and start looking.  She's a big proponent of having more than one "horse in the race".  I see the value in that, so I signed up.  I've had a few message exchanges, but I've stayed pretty passive and only responded to what seems like genuine interest from someone I would be interested in.  I'd say it's been quite an education.  I could probably do a whole "episode" on my brief and limited experience so far.

I signed up for a wine tasting hosted by the dating site I'm on.  It's Saturday night.  I'm keeping my expectations low.  There's only been one guy that I thought I could click with and we found a deal breaker early on and agreed to move on before even suggesting a meeting.  I figure I'll get to learn more about wine (something I'd like to do even if it wasn't a single's thing) and maybe get some of that "fun, flirty attention" you mention.  

I will admit that today I'm feeling somewhere between frustrated and angry.  Neighbor B stopped by yesterday and confirmed that our plans are still on to attend the outdoor theater on Friday.  He looked me in the eye and said "Nothing's changed".  I let that go and did my best to have our "normal" interaction via text and Words With Friends chatting later that evening, but the fact is that something HAS changed.  Maybe not for him, but it has for me and I'm feeling off balance.  I don't regret asking him what this was for him.  I regret that I wasn't prepared for this contingency.  I figured I would either get "I really don't see you in that way.  Let's just be friends." or "I really like you and would like to explore something more, but I think we should take it slow."  His response was actually more revealing and "better" than either of those options, but I'm not sure how to deal with it yet.  I'm not sure how to ignore the potential for something more now that I know there IS interest.  

I know I'll figure this out, and I feel he's worth making the effort to do so, but I think I'm shifting from wanting to respect his desires and feelings to wanting to know and respect my own.  I'm thinking about talking with him about this tonight so our first real interaction after "the talk" doesn't involve his kids.  I want him to know that these are my feelings and I'm not asking him to "fix" them, but if he really wants to be my friend then I shouldn't be hiding "bad" feelings from him.  I have an appointment with my T today, so I'll have the opportunity to discuss all of this with her before potentially talking with him.  

As confusing and frustrating as all of this is, I know that it's a tremendous opportunity to learn and grow.  I think my biggest challenge is to recognize what is part of who I am and should be valued as such and what are unhealthy behaviors/patterns that need to be addressed.  That's why I pay my T the big bucks.  

[formflier]

Hey BG... .I rarely post over here, yet I've followed your story for a while and I'm still rooting for you!    

My number 1 concern is quoted on top.  I've heard some about it and it does seem like you are working through it.  I kinda think I'm in the last half of my grieving process for several things... .it's gone on a lot longer than I thought.  Like you... I've been guided by a T.

I'd like to see more focus on deliberate care for your feelings, especially since you have so many others to care for.  

neighbor b aside, thats a lot of grief on your shoulders.

how are you holding up BG?

Speaking as a guy,  "he obviously likes you." Speaking as a guy, "the ball's on your court."

Turkish summarized it here and as I read the entire thing... .I keep seeing the guy "put it back in your court".  I also am seeing a guy being patient and wise.  

Said another way... .I'm not seeing him pester you to "quickly toss it back".

That being said, I think you should give it a week and directly address the issue again.  I would encourage you to stay in your heart and out of that "overthinking" head of yours (all the details about limiting touch, compliments... etc etc).

What would I think that look like/sound like?

"Hey neighbor B... .I hope you have a few minutes to listen and then take a while to consider what I share".  (then describe your "feelings journey" up until now).  Then talk about how you are working through a lot and you want to respect his work on being ready to date.  Then finish it off by saying... ."if I was ready to date right now... .I would want to date you."  I'm hoping I'll feel the same way in a few months.  Can we keep things going as is right now and check in with each other (pick a date or milestone a couple months out)?.  

I hope this could help both of your focus on the now and the friendship without worrying about "should I bring up... .?"  Also provides you time to sit with your heart and your head for a week or so before that future date.

Thoughts?

FF

[BeagleGirl]

I would encourage you to stay in your heart and out of that "overthinking" head of yours (all the details about limiting touch, compliments... etc etc).

FF,
I think you have been talking to my T. 

BeagleGirl's MO - 1% "I feel", 99% "What I need to do about what I feel". 

Okay, well maybe I'm closer to 10%/90%, but my T is encouraging me to spend more time feeling and less time acting on those feelings.  She's right, and so are you. 

When I look at my heart, I know that Neighbor B won a piece of it by being the kind of guy who could look at me and say "You're probably not ready and I want to wait until you are.  I am probably not ready and I don't want to risk our hearts until I know where mine is."  That's what I want in a man, but it's so foreign that I don't really know how to respond to it.  I don't know how to trust that.  I fear that if I don't enter into some level of commitment, he will go away.  I feel like he's trying to show me that's not true, but that doesn't mean I don't have that fear.  The key is to feel the feeling but not give in to the desire to act on it.  I need to remember that time does not cost me anything and he's offering the gift of friendship while I take that time.  Easier said than done. 

So I'm trying to feel the feelings for a while before taking any action and looking forward to tomorrow night with him and his kids.  When we're together I don't feel these doubts.  It's just when I'm alone with my thoughts... .Where IS that overthinking switch?

BG

[formflier]

To continue my thought/plan... .after a few months of letting him know that you want more but aren't ready... .well... .we all know it's rare in life that you "feel ready"

Looking off the high dive

Peeking out of the open door of the airplane (yeah... I've jumped  a few times)

And similar things in relationships where you wonder... .is it time to take the leap.  Sometimes... you just have to jump.

It's doubtful you'll ever "Know" that it's the right time (again... us overthinkers).

So... .be deliberate about waiting, and then unless you can come up with a really... .really... .really good reason to wait longer (seriously... something specific... not just a feeling)... .well, I'd be pushing you just as hard to jump.


OK... .this could be a really odd analogy or you could totally get my point.  Depends if you like Westerns.  If you do... then of course your favorite is Lonesome Dove.

Gus focused on living... .and perhaps for you getting back in a relationship is like chasing buffalo again... .

https://youtu.be/V4fFvgwjtqo

It's not practical, I'm sure you will always be able to come up with reasons it might not be wise... .

For now... watch from safety... .but soon, give them a chase.


FF

[Cat Familiar]

Hey BG,
I've got to say I'm bowled over by what a great guy Neighbor B is turning out to be. Wow!

And take your time. Sit in comfort of not knowing. What will be will become soon enough. He sees what a delightful woman you are. Breathe.

Cat

[BeagleGirl]

Today's episode is pretty packed.  So pop some popcorn and get the tissues ready.

I don't think I went into detail on the FOO stuff I've been dealing with, so here's a little background.  My dad has a degenerative disease that has left him unable to speak.  My dad's voice, both speaking and singing, has been a big loss this year.  And it makes it more difficult to hold a conversation with him.  His illness has also left me with the fear that if I try to confront the issues in my relationship with him that he will shut me out and then die and then I'll have lost even the semblance of relationship with him in the last years of his life.  I'm starting to recognize that my dad uses some of the same tools that dBPDxh did, and withholding affection and blame shifting are biggies.  Well, I found out from my mom that dad thinks I have been seeing someone the past 18+ months; that I left my husband because I wanted to be with this man.  My dad knows about my affair, so I can understand to some extent why he would suspect that, but it was incredibly hurtful to know that he believed that of me and didn't bother to verify it.  I also feel like he should know me better than that.
 I've been pretty angry about his assumptions and the way he's treated me since I separated from dBPDxh.  I have also been angry about the fact that he chose to not attend my grandma's funeral, leaving my mom to grieve alone.  He used his illness as an excuse, but he has been able to rise to the occasion when he wants to.

My dad has been pretty silent since I left California, but when I posted on FaceBook about my dog dying he commented "Sorry about your doggie".  He didn't text me.  He commented on FaceBook.  Then when I updated my profile picture he commented on that "I like my new pictures too".  I don't understand those choices.

Then last night he texted asking for my son's phone number and complaining about how my mom just isn't motivated to do stuff around the house (DUH!  She just lost her mom and is dealing with all the estate stuff.)  He ended with "Love ya".  I sat on that text overnight and responded this morning with "I love you to, but I'm pretty angry with you now as well."  I briefly explained that I'm angry because he didn't attend the funeral and that left mom alone and also took away the opportunity for me to have conversation with him.  I invited conversation via text/email if he felt like he was ready.  His response was that I don't see how my mom ignores and rejects him and then he started talking about how I hurt him by divorcing dBPDxh and not seeking his advice and guidance and I made a big mistake but he's just got to accept me as I am.  That dBPDxh and I are moving on with our lives and he won't be around much longer and his only wish is that my brothers and I love each other. 

I haven't responded to his text per se.  I asked for time to think about it, but wanted to clear one thing up.  I wanted him to know that if by "moving on" he meant other relationships, then he probably had heard from mom about dBPDxh dating the church secretary but that I had not "moved on" in that way.  That there was no other man before or after my affair and that I didn't leave dBPDxh because I wanted something with someone else.  His response to me was more FOG and I'm not ready to respond to that yet, so I halted the conversation. 

I cried A LOT today.  I have been doing as my T suggested and focused on feeling my feelings, and that conversation with my dad brought up a lot of feelings of loss and anger that the men in my life (dad and dBPDxh) who should have loved have failed me and "left" me.  I felt the loneliness of facing the recent and anticipated losses in my life on my own.  I felt the fear that Neighbor B would be yet another man who would leave me.  I felt the anger at God for allowing me to get pregnant and then miscarry three times in one year and then not allow me to understand WHY?  I felt anger at myself for not knowing how to allow God to be close enough to comfort me.  I sat with a lot of pain today.  It sucked, but I think I need to do it more often.

So now for the continuation of the Neighbor B plot line... .
He had invited me to attend an outdoor theater with him and his kids tonight.  I asked if he wanted dinner before hand and he said that would be great.  I know what his kids like to eat and offered to prepare their favorites and allow them to help in the preparation.  We had a blast.  Neighbor B seemed a bit nervous about his kids possibly breaking something or behaving rudely, but I tried to reassure him that I wasn't worried and he shouldn't be either (okay that was a bit invalidating, now that I think about it).  Other than that, we had great conversation all around.  I felt just as comfortable with him as I have in the past, with just a slightly higher awareness of the boundaries we've set, and it didn't feel like the kids were along on a date because they were just as involved in the conversation. 

So then we get to the theater.  He has connections and we parked practically at the entrance to the theater and had amazing seats.  I wasn't sure if I would sit next to him or if we would keep the kids between us, but I was the last one into the row and the kids had taken the two seats at the end, leaving the seat next to their dad open.  The interaction during the musical was probably pushing a boundaries a tiny bit (I really do have a hard time not flirting, and he really isn't so hard of hearing that he would need to lean that close to me when I made comments) but felt natural.  His son ended up wanting to sit next to his dad after intermission, so we had both kids between us for the second half, which was fine.  We had good conversation on the drive to and from the theater, but his daughter and I also sang along to the songs he was playing at his daughter's request.

Now for the BeagleGirl twist.  We saw Meet Me in St. Louis.  Neither of us had ever seen it before and I DEFINITELY didn't know the primary romantic plot line.  For those of you out there who are just as unfamiliar with it, the female lead (played by Judy Garland in the movie version) is pining for and hoping to be noticed by HER NEIGHBOR.  She sings, repeatedly through the musical "I adore the boy next door".  Let me tell you, BeagleGirl was probably beet red for a good part of the musical.  I have no idea if Neighbor B's thoughts were of the same ilk as mine, but I felt like the only thing that was lacking for my pure embarrassment was for the male lead to be named Neighbor B. 

Despite the slight embarrassment, I thoroughly enjoyed the musical, and Neighbor B said he did as well and was really glad I was able to come.  The kids were tired, but they also said this was their favorite musical of the season.  So a good time was had by all.

I'm keeping myself busy tomorrow.  I want to give Neighbor B a little space and time to think his thoughts and  maybe feel his feelings (if men actually do that sort of thing).  I've got 7 miles to wog for my half marathon training, lunch with my T (she has a daughter going into my field and asked if I would be comfortable talking with her about it) then the wine tasting organized by the dating site I'm on.  Oh, and one of the guys on the dating site that has expressed what I feel is an appropriate level of interest has asked if we can have a phone conversation this weekend, so that may happen tomorrow as well.  I don't know if this guy will be a recurring character, or just an extra, but we'll call him "Cat Guy".  He has cats, and I brought that up as a potential issue (I'm highly allergic) but he said he'd never let a pet stand in the way of a relationship.  Quite honestly, I'm not all that interested in dating anyone but Neighbor B at this moment, but I'm going to follow my friend's advice and try to avoid allowing this dating thing to be a "one horse race". 

Right now I feel pretty comfortable with "feeling my feelings but resisting the urge to act on them" with Neighbor B.  I like him.  I'm not going to try to stop liking him or deny (to myself) that I like him.  I'm going to feel that "like" but still work to honor our boundaries.  If only it wasn't so darn easy to flirt with him. 

Well, I need to head to bed.  I will definitely be having sweet dreams tonight.   

BG

[formflier]

  I don't understand those choices.

 

Don't overthink it... .

He "reached out"... .certainly in a way that you don't understand... but still he reached out.

FF

[BeagleGirl]

Today would have been my 23rd wedding anniversary.  This is the first time that I am "celebrating" that this date isn't supposed to mean the same thing.  I now have a divorce date that marks the start of my new marital status

I have to say that I'm still in this "pain" mode and I'm not really sure where the pain is coming from today.  I think that some of it is coming from the occasion to remember that day 23 years ago when I thought I had the promise of lifelong love and being cherished, but the pain seems to be all mixed up today.  I'm fighting the urge to focus it in the area where I feel like I have the most "control" to do something about it - Neighbor B.  I think it may help to list out my pains.  They may get thrown in a box and jumbled all together again, but maybe unpacking them for a bit will help.

1-My relationship with my dad.  We corresponded via text yesterday.  I think the "theme" we've settled into is that he is hurt that I didn't reach out to him for help in my marriage and he feels like all this pain could have been avoided if I'd just done so.  He made the statement "I have spent my life helping others with their problems.  I'm here for you whenever you're ready."  My response was "I think you need to remember that I'm not 'others'.  I'm your daughter.  Helping me does not equal loving me."

My dad has spent his life helping others.  That's part of the problem.  He was always there for others, but not for his family; the whole "cobbler's wife has no shoes" thing.  My armchair psychologist view is that he has spent his life seeking the love and validation he needs by rescuing others.  I and my brothers were excluded from the list of people he would "help" because our failings reflected his failure as a father so the less interaction, the better.  My mom was in charge of making sure we reflected well on dad and I got the message very early on that dad couldn't handle it if I "misbehaved".  I have spent most of my life seeking my dad's approval.  My T is helping me realize that I probably sought his approval because that is what I substituted for his love. 

So now I feel like I've lost his approval (love) and the way to gain it back is to allow him to vent his feelings of his disappointment in me and validate his feelings that if I had just gone to him then I wouldn't have screwed up my life and that of my kids and dBPDxh.  I need to acknowledge how deeply I've hurt him and fall back in line.  He's no longer proud of me, and that feels like he doesn't love me.  And he keeps asking me to tell him what he needs to do to make me understand that he loves me, but in the same breath says things that make me feel like he may never "get it". 
Examples:
"You need to know how much I love you, how you and dBPDxh hurt me"
"How can I show you I love you and feel you are making and have made a big mistake?" 

I feel like the second half of each of those statements is what he actually wants and the first part is lip service.  He says, and probably believes, that he wants me to feel loved but he actually wants his needs to be met.  And I don't think he understands that is precisely why I stopped coming to him.  The few times I tried to share with my dad what dBPDxh was doing that was hurting me, his response was to tell me that I needed to be more understanding of and loving towards dBPDxh.  I needed to look at what I was doing that was contributing to the problem and fix that.  He was my counselor (though not as compassionate as my actual counselor) not my dad.  The way I want(ed) my dad to respond was to be hurt that I was hurting and angered by the injustice of how I was being treated.  I wanted my dad to want to protect me, even if he knew he couldn't/shouldn't NOT to say things that made me feel like I was failing him.  I don't know how to tell him this in a way that he might be able to hear and process, and I don't even know if he's really capable or willing to do so. 

Then add to the "normal" pain of having a conversation like this the fact that I have a legitimate fear that my dad could die in the very near future.  The next stage of the progression of his disease is slipping into a coma that he would be unlikely to return from.  And guess who he has given the responsibility for "pulling the plug".  He doesn't want to burden my mom or brothers with that.  I'm the strong one, so I'm "it".

2.  Processing my relationship with dBPDxh.  This one seems to be on the back burner, but maybe it's less controlled than I'd like to think.  In my pain I seem to be linking dBPDxh and my dad a lot.  They were both supposed to love me.  They both failed to do so and dBPDxh has given up trying.  I still struggle with the message that I wasn't enough to earn/keep his love.  I still deal with the damage his words and actions did to me.  I still deal with the knowledge of the damage my words and actions did to him and the way I failed our marriage. 

We should be just 2 years away from our silver anniversary today.  We should be looking back on the struggles we've overcome and looking forward to tackling the coming challenges together.  But I no longer have any desire for that with him and that, in and of itself, is a loss.  I have lost my love for the man I promised to love all the rest of the days of my life and, while it's a relief to no longer have the pain of loving him, it feels wrong that I should be capable of extracting him from my heart.

3.  My dogs.  I know this may seem small, but I'm still mourning the loss of the dog we euthanized two weeks ago, and dreading the loss of her sister in the coming days/weeks/months.  And I am missing our third dog, who travels back and forth with my son.  She has been the only companionship I have had in my bed and the only creature I could (when it's my custody week) count on allowing me to hold them.  She is my companion, but only half time and with all the loss in my life right now I am even starting to anticipate my loss of her, though she's only 5 and should have many more years.

4.  S19.  He left to move into his first apartment on Friday.  Classes don't start for him until the 20th, but he's starting to build his own life.  I'm so very proud of and excited for him, but I do still feel the loss.  I also ache because I know that he's been hurt by my choice to leave his dad and the divorce.  He told S15's T that he is sad and cries about it sometimes.  I wish I could help ease the pain, but I know I can't do much other than be his mom. 

5.  S15.  We've made it through a LOT of pain in the past year.  There were periods of time when I thought I might lose him literally (suicide) and emotionally.  While things seem to have stabilized, I have a low level fear that any day could return us to a regression back to the silent treatments and frightening behaviors.  I also have a knowledge that progression will also present a lot of pain to deal with.  His T says S15's choosing not to deal with a lot of his pain and losses and that when he does it will likely be directed at me as the mom and stable parent.  While I will gladly take whatever is thrown at me and do everything I can to help him through the process, that is not a fun prospect.

6.  My former church.  Today will be my first day with no commitment ties to my former church.  I have a new church, but no real solid connections to it yet.  The pastor has been incredibly caring and I feel certain I will quickly feel at home there, but the leaving of my former church is still a huge loss.  It has been central in my life for nearly 14 years.  And it contains dozens of losses in the form of relationships that will no longer continue because it now seems that church was the only thing keeping them going.  That's more pain than I feel ready to unpack right now, as I need to get ready for said new church.

I have more pain sources I should detail, but I do need to run.  I'll be back with those, but appreciate any feedback/insight on the first 6 in the meantime.

BG

[formflier]

BG,

I'm wondering if the following thought might help you relationship with your Dad.

"Dad, you taught me well to help others and to take care of myself so that I can help others.  The issues between ex and I needed professional help to try and resolve.  It is sad our marriage wasn't repaired.  Please know I did my best seeking help for my marriage, myself and ex... just as you taught me to do. 

Going forward, understand I need your love and support as I grieve my marriage, which was precious to me.  The past can't be changed.

I'm sure you are grieving the loss of my marriage as well. 

FF

[Cat Familiar]

BG,
Wow, you've got a lot to grieve.     As not fun as feeling those feelings are, the best way I've learned to process is to lean into them and fully feel them and ask them for the gifts of knowledge they want to share with you and cry as much as you need to.

When I was going through my divorce, my dad died, my financial world came crashing down on my head, and the guy I thought would be my rescuer from all the chaos... .left, and a very dear cat who had been so vital to my emotional support, died. So I had an opportunity to practice the above.

So your dad has been helpful to others throughout his life and by doing so, gained self esteem. You and your brothers were an extension of his sense of self and therefore didn't receive his assistance and were judged for misbehavior. Rather than focus on the hurt you felt when your marriage ended, he thinks about how it hurt him.

It makes sense why you'd conflate the pain you feel about your dad with the pain you feel about your ex-husband. "I still struggle with the message that I wasn't enough to earn/keep his love."  Where do you suppose you learned that pattern?

Not small at all to mourn the loss of your precious dog.     I've cried more tears about a precious animal companion than I did when both my mother and father died. In their cases, there were so many conflicting emotions present, but with so many of my animal friends, it was pure love and companionship.

You've also got the empty nest thing, which often sends women into a spiral.     And you're concerned about your younger son and how he'll manage the transition after the divorce.    

And your church, which was a place of support and companionship, is now in the rearview mirror.  

So, BG, you're holding up incredibly well as you deal with all these losses. You have some very exciting new things to look forward to. And I think Neighbor B is very wise to take things slowly and allow you to heal from all the sorrows and painful losses you've experienced in such a short time.

Remember to breathe deeply and just take each moment at a time.  

Cat

[Mustbeabetterway]

Hi BeagleGirl,

You are dealing with so much at this point.  You seem to be remarkably clear headed and insightful .

My marriage lasted 38 years.  The hurt you are experiencing at the demise of your marriage is something I can relate to.  You say that it feels wrong for you to be “capable of extracting him from your heart”.  From your posts, it doesn’t seem as if you have extracted him.  After 23 years there are memories that will not be extracted.  It has given me a kind of peace to think that my marriage was multifaceted.  In many ways it was a success but because of words/actions on both of our parts, it came to an end.  I have to accept that so that I can continue to grow and flourish in my life, but it doesn’t nullify the positive things that came from our union.  What do you think about that perspective?

As cat says, breathe deeply and take each moment as it comes.   

Peace and blessings,

Mustbe

[Lucky Jim]

I like him.  I'm not going to try to stop liking him or deny (to myself) that I like him. 

Hey BG, I think it's great that you've found someone with whom you enjoy hanging out.

It's complicated, I understand, for both of you.

If I could make a suggestion, it would be: Try to let things unfold naturally.

That sounds easy, I know, but is actually pretty hard to do in a new r/s.

Keep us posted,
Lucky Jim

[BeagleGirl]

Try to let things unfold naturally.

That sounds easy, I know, but is actually pretty hard to do in a new r/s.

Lucky Jim,
So good to see you around.  Thanks for stopping by.

Yes.  Allowing things to unfold naturally seems nearly impossible for me right now.    I am constantly battling the urge to try to manage the progression.  I want to be pursued, and I think Neighbor B has shown his ability to and interest in doing so, but I know that as soon as it feels like his interest might be waning, I want to turn around and start chasing him. 

I'm really struggling to grasp what the pace of a "normal" relationship looks and feels like.  I've only had two romantic relationships and neither of them qualifies as "normal".  It's not "normal" to marry the first guy who agrees to go steady with you at ages 14 and 15.  It's also not "normal" to choose to have an affair with a married colleague.   

dBPDxh was definitely not a pursuer.  The "love bombing" that many describe on these boards didn't happen for me.  It was more of a "Sure, I'll be your boyfriend/get engaged/get married a year earlier than planned/have a kid with you/have another kid with you/move across country with you" with lots of resistance and "You're asking too much of me.  I want to leave you." sprinkled in there.  I spent close to 27 years actively managing (or trying to manage) that relationship.  My affair partner did pursue me to some extent, but I led in intimacy and wasn't really running away from him.  He was definitely not acting in a responsible manner where his obligations were concerned and chose to let his "heart" overrule his head (as did I).

So here is a man that (I think) is probably willing to pursue me, but also carefully considering his ability to do so given his responsibilities to his work, his children, and himself.  I want to honor that.  That is what I should be looking for in a man.  But it feels really uncomfortable to not know where I stand with him.  And I long for an intimate relationship with a man, especially right now when I'm hurting.  I know it's not fair to either of us to try to push a relationship for either of those reasons, but that doesn't mean I won't feel that urge to do so.  I'm facing a lot of fear and pain right now and that makes me want to control things that are outside my control.

The level of correspondence has dropped off since Friday to almost nothing.  We're still playing Words With Friends, but I've been trying not to initiate chats and his chats have not been as conversational (mostly "nice play" type stuff) and the one message I left that posed a question was not responded to.  He had his kids this weekend and was probably busy with them.  And he may be taking some time and space to think about what he wants (do men do that?).  I just hate guessing at what is going on.  I want to ask him if he's taking a step back.  I want to KNOW so I can protect myself, but as my T would say, I need to guard my heart either way and spend this time of waiting caring for myself.  It just sucks that I feel like "caring for myself" would be look like pursuing him because that's what I want to do to resolve these uncomfortable feelings. 

Sigh.  I am still looking for that "overthinking" switch.

BG

[BeagleGirl]

"Dad, you taught me well to help others and to take care of myself so that I can help others.  The issues between ex and I needed professional help to try and resolve.  It is sad our marriage wasn't repaired.  Please know I did my best seeking help for my marriage, myself and ex... just as you taught me to do.  

Going forward, understand I need your love and support as I grieve my marriage, which was precious to me.  The past can't be changed.

I'm sure you are grieving the loss of my marriage as well.  

FF,
Thank you.  I discussed the full correspondence I've had with my T today and she helped me put some names to some of the things I want to communicate to my dad.  One of those things is that I feel like he has some skewed assumptions.  A few of those assumptions are:
My behavior in my marriage was worse than it really was.
dBPDxh's behavior was better than it really was.
I didn't do everything I could/should have to save my marriage.
If I had listened to my dad, HE could have saved my marriage.

I think that last one is a biggie.  I think it leaves us both tied up in guilt.  

I realized a few things as I talked this out with my T.  I realized that my dad expected me to excuse him from attending grandma's funeral because "mom ignores and often rejects him", but I feel he has always responded to any "complaint" I have had about dBPDxh doing the same or worse by saying I needed to be more understanding of dBPDxh and look at how I was contributing to the problem.  That's not necessarily something I need to address with dad in the first round, but I think it was important for me to see.

I also realized that I really wanted him to be angry at what dBPDxh has done to me.  There were the times I tried to share my hurt and he seemed more disappointed in me than angered by the hurt I experienced.  More recently, it bothers me that there has been no acknowledgement of the pain that dBPDxh has caused me and our kids by starting this relationship with the church secretary before even our legal separation was finalized.  I feel like he feels it's basically what I "deserve" because I left my husband and that justifies dBPDxh seeking out and starting a new relationship.  I don't need a dBPDxh bashing session, but it would be nice if he could say "I'm saddened that dBPDxh has moved on in a way that has got to hurt you and I'm sure you are worried about how it is impacting your boys."

The other REALLY big "Aha" from today is that I am really focused on a given outcome that is not within my power to achieve.  This is a theme throughout several areas of my life that I need to "sit with" for a while.  I am focused on achieving a better relationship with my dad - I can't do that on my own.  Dad has to be willing as well.  A better focus would be making the extension of an invitation to a different/better relationship the desired outcome.  Then comes the willingness to stop there and wait, not pushing and working myself into exhaustion trying to get him to accept the invitation.  

Boy did I play out the "invitation blitz" in my marriage.  I picture that scene from Harry Potter when the owls are delivering all the Hogwarts invitations.  That's probably what my JADE sessions felt like to dBPDxh.  I was certain that if I got the wording right or asked at the right time or... .then dBPDxh would change his behaviors and I'd have the marriage I wanted.  

And it's what I feel tempted to do with Neighbor B.  Poor Neighbor B.

So now I need to spend some time working on that first invitation to my dad.  I think that he'll have to RSVP and probably "attend" before I know whether a second invitation will be sent and what it will look like.  

[BeagleGirl]

Cat,
Thank you for sharing your experience of loss.  Right now is a perfect time for me to hear from someone who has faced similar pain "I made it through, and you will too".  

I definitely am crying a lot.  Maybe not "all I need to", but I think I really took my T's advice to "feel the pain" seriously.  I have a bit less room for grief this week, as it's a custody week, but I'm trying to make time for it so I can "learn what it has to teach me".  

I talked with my T today about the question you posed "Where do you think you learned the pattern of not feeling like you were enough to hold on to love?"  I would say that I learned it best from my dad.  Not just that I felt like I needed to be/do enough to earn his love.  I look at him now and realize that's how he's lived his life.  He has also equated approval with love and worried that he would lose approval if he didn't work hard enough for it.  I think it's a generational wound that I really want to spare my sons from.  I want them to see a mother who is secure in her value because of who she is, not what she does.  I want them to know that I love them for who they are, no matter what they do.

Thank you for your words of encouragement.  They mean a lot.

BG

[formflier]

Did you talk through with T if it is a good idea to talk through all those assumptions with your Dad?

I could see a little bit of that being good, yet I wonder what the goal would be of working through each one.


I suppose you really need to think about what kind of relationship you want with your Dad... and what things are "on the table" and what things are private to you.

Personally... I didn't discuss much with my parents about my marriage.  Scheduling things... but I don't talk through feelings. 

I do know that they have a decent idea of what is going on, and during estate stuff I had some talks with Mom about control of assets and preserving those for her grandchildren.  Mom understands why I have my finances the way I do.

Anyway... I digress.

What relationship do you want with Dad... .what does he want? 

FF

[BasementDweller]

Hi, BG! 

Greetings from one overthinker who is just venturing out into the terrifying "dating" waters after a BPD relationship - to another. 

I'm still on the detaching board because I'm less than two months out and NOT properly emotionally detached, but I have been following and enjoying your saga. It's extremely strange to try to navigate a normal, slow rolling, non-dramatic intro with a man that isn't emotionally over the top. I hear you there.

It seems like both you and Neighbor B have a lot going on and also a lot in common, both that you like each other, and you have other responsibilities and concerns. It sounds like it's being handled as rationally and respectfully as possible by both of you, and I can imagine it must feel a bit mixed. "I don't want him to overwhelm me... .but... .I don't want him to ignore me either."

Unfortunately I have no wise advice, because I am just now starting to talk with a guy after a very odd start. I was/am in no way ready to date again, but this one just sort of "appeared". I have no idea what the hell I'm doing.   The overthinking thing though? Constant. Keeps me awake all night at times. Where's the off switch?

Just dropping in to see how things are going and wish you luck and good vibes. He sounds like a very nice and conscientious man. 

[Lucky Jim]

I'm facing a lot of fear and pain right now and that makes me want to control things that are outside my control.

Hello again, BG, I admire your honesty and think you have put your finger on a central issue: your need to control things.

What would happen if you let go of the outcome with your new friend?  You might find it much less stressful.  If it works out with the new guy, great; if not, that's OK, too.

Let me give you an example.  It used to drive me crazy when my kids neglected to respond to messages from me (my BPDxW and I are divorced).  I thought it was rude and unkind for my children to ignore messages from me, their own Father!  Then I read a passage in a book about gaining freedom by letting go of outcomes.  It dawned on me that I could let go of the outcome -- my need to hear back from my kids -- and, instead, could regard my messages as an expression of my love for them, complete and sufficient regardless of any response.

Letting go of the outcome took a lot of pressure off me.  You might find it helpful, too!

LJ

[BeagleGirl]

I am just now starting to talk with a guy after a very odd start. I was/am in no way ready to date again, but this one just sort of "appeared". I have no idea what the hell I'm doing. 

BasementDweller,
I'm sorry you're facing this confusion, but I'm also so glad I'm not alone in this confusion.   

I would say that Neighbor B just sort of "appeared" for me as well.  I have spent a few minutes in the past few days cursing him for doing so.  It's not really his fault, but I feel like I was in a really good place before he came along and messed up all my pretty little plans for not thinking about dating for at least 6 months post divorce.  The past few weeks it feels like I've thought of little else.  I suspect he may have had a similar thought or two.

I wish you lots of hope and peace in your detaching process.  It still feels odd to not "love" dBPDxh, but I think the confirmation that he has moved on severed the last ties.  As painful as our anniversary was, I know I don't want him back.  It's bitter sweet to know that he no longer has the power to hurt or comfort me the way he used to because he no longer has access to my heart.

BG

[BasementDweller]

I wish you lots of hope and peace in your detaching process.  It still feels odd to not "love" dBPDxh, but I think the confirmation that he has moved on severed the last ties.  As painful as our anniversary was, I know I don't want him back.  It's bitter sweet to know that he no longer has the power to hurt or comfort me the way he used to because he no longer has access to my heart.

Thank you! Mine is slow going, but the wound is still fresh. I'm glad to hear that you have finally shut him out of your heart for good and are over it. I hope to get there soon. I don't want him back (too unstable and unreliable) but I do miss him and what we had. I still feel like I want to go "home".

I guess when someone else appears on the scene, they just kind of "drop in" with no regard to timing.   I once lost a really great man due to bad timing, and I wish I had handled things differently and tried a little harder - despite the timing. So this time I am trying to keep an open mind. I don't know if the guy I met wants anything serious or is just dating around or too busy to have a relationship, etc... .I guess it doesn't matter at this point, because I'm still a bit numb.

The Neighbor B situation seems like if it does pan out in the long run, it could have some staying power if you both choose. It seems now like a mature, warm friendship that could become a relationship under the right circumstances, and that it would be entered into in a healthy way - that would create a solid foundation. Whatever happens, I can foresee him being a very nice person to have around.

[BeagleGirl]

What would happen if you let go of the outcome with your new friend?  You might find it much less stressful.  If it works out with the new guy, great; if not, that's OK, too.

LJ,
That is another elusive switch that I haven't seemed to find, but I think I'm closer to it today.  I keep reminding myself that I was fine before Neighbor B came along, and I'll be fine if he drifts away.  I want to find some comfort and security in the promise of something more down the line, but fixing my eyes on that imagined bright spot in the future makes today seem duller.  That's not how I want to live my life.

Today it feels easier to let go and be okay with either outcome.  I'm not sure how long I'll be able to hold onto letting go (irony intended), but I'm hopeful that this process will get easier and I'll be able to enjoy whatever interaction we do have without needing to see what it might indicate for the future.  

I'm still struggling with how much "initiation" I do.  I was honest when I told him that I pursue friendships.  This past week I've felt like I couldn't pursue because I wanted more than friendship.  Today it feels like I might be okay with either outcome and that makes it easier for me to think that an invitation to do "friend" things where I am okay with being turned down might not be out of line.  I obviously need to give myself some time to allow my feelings to settle before going "off leash".

Thanks,
BG

[BeagleGirl]

Did you talk through with T if it is a good idea to talk through all those assumptions with your Dad?

What relationship do you want with Dad... .what does he want? 

FF,
My T and I discussed the assumptions I feel he is making and that I should do some "truth telling" if the opportunity arose, but I think the more important thing to communicate is that I feel like he is making assumptions and that impacts our relationship.  

I'm definitely looking at this as a long term conversation, with lots of pauses and possible stop signs along the way.  This is one area in my life where I don't feel the urge to rush.

Which is good, because my mom called me today and said that dad has been really depressed since I started this conversation with him and she's worried that he can't handle it.   And she also questions if she can handle dad through this, even if he can handle it.  

Dad had texted me with some insight into how he thinks he's failed me as a father and asked me to add to the list so he can work towards being a better father.  I know it took a lot for him to look at himself and admit those things.  He wonders if this is God's punishment for him being such a fool.  

Here's how I responded:
"I want you to know that I love you and believe that we can have a better relationship.  If I didn't, it would be pointless to have this conversation.  

It's been a painful weekend for me and i felt like I didn't have what it took to continue the conversation at this time.  I'm sorry that left you hanging.  

I don't see this as punishment, but rather as an opportunity.  It may hurt at times, but most healing does involve some pain.

Yes.  You have failed me in many ways over the years.  I know we can't go back and fix those things, but if understanding them can keep us from repeating those hurts, I'd like to try.  I know you want to be a better dad.  I feel like your desire to help me is born out of that desire.  I think that what I want you to understand is that I have always feared disappointing you, so your counsel feels like "This is what you need to do for me to love you".  

I don't feel like I need you to be my counselor or pastor.  I have those in my life already.  I feel like I need someone who sees the best in me and is hurt and even angered when I have been hurt.  

I'll say one more thing and then give you some time to pray and process.  

The most painful words I have faced were you saying to me last May thatt it takes two to break a marriage and you "know how I can be".  I felt those words very deeply both because I felt you saw all the ugliness in me and because I felt like you didn't see the beauty.  I wanted you to know "how I could be" an amazing mother and friend, a patient and long suffering wife, a creative and intelligent employee, someone who brings joy and sparkle to the day of complete strangers, someone who gives and serves others joyfully.  I want you to see those things in me because, guess what, many of those things were passed down to me by you."

It's not as polished as I would have liked, but it's heartfelt.  And if that is the end of the conversation, I feel like I can be okay with that.  I don't know what the next step would be.  I guess I am just waiting to see if/how he responds.  

BG

[BeagleGirl]

Okay, so here's what's going on with BeagleGirl today.

I had a dream about the dog that recently died.  She was lost in a windstorm and I was trying to get her to safety when she fell down and started seizing the way she had on her last day.  It was then that I realized I had already lost her and she sat up and looked at me.  I was able to tell her that I did everything I could to maker her end peaceful and that I missed her.  I woke from the with the intense pain that has been haunting me the past several days.  It felt overwhelming and I prayed (more like pleaded) with God to give me a break from the pain.  I fell back asleep and when I woke I was more peaceful than I have been in a while. 

I started getting ready for my day.  S15's psychiatric evaluation was today, so we didn't need to leave as early, so I took my time doing my morning routine.  During that time I had some more conversation with God.  I'm starting to feel those lines of communication open back up.  I still feel a bit skittish, but I think He's doing His part in helping me want to allow Him back in.  I find it hard to put my relationship with God into words, and tend to avoid doing so on this forum, but I think it's time to try. 

I have been holding God at arm's length since the last of my miscarriages in 2015.  I have had a really hard time believing in His love since then.  I've felt His presence and seen His work, and even believed in His goodness, but I've not been able to crawl up in His lap and be comforted by Him since then.  It's been more of an "I'll take that tissue and dry my tears with it, but that's all I want from You" kind of relationship.  And "I'll do what I KNOW you want me to do, but we're not going to talk about it and I'm not going to ask your opinion on some things because I don't want it" kind of communication.  I'm still working on that, but at least I've made enough progress to want to work on it.

I have had times in my life when I heard God's voice and felt His leading to an extent that I can't doubt his existence.  Even through these past 3 years when I've held Him at arm's length, I know His voice and sense His leading.  I felt that leading this morning.  I don't know what the outcome will be, but I feel like I took a step of faith and that has always been rewarded, usually in unexpected ways.

So here was what I felt led to do.  I have had some correspondence with a man on a dating website.  He wanted to have a phone call early on and I was hesitant.  After consulting with friends, I agreed, but he took a while to get back to me and I figured he'd lost interest.  Then he wanted to schedule something, but then cancelled, asked to reschedule at a time that didn't work for me, then said maybe he could make the original time work, then didn't follow up after not making the original time work.  All of that had me writing him off as "not good date material". 

This morning he was on my mind, and my heart.  I don't know a lot about him, but this morning I just felt like he needed someone to talk to, and that I was that someone he needed to talk to.  I texted him and let him know that I wasn't interested in dating him, but what I was feeling about him needing someone to talk to.  I offered up conversation on those terms.  His initial response was a request to not close the door on anything and interest in connecting, to which I replied "I'm following my heart and my heart says you need a sister in Christ (he's a Christian and he said that's what drew him to my profile), not a date candidate in me.  If that's not ringing true in your heart, then I don't think we should set up a time to talk.  If it is then I'll give you some options".  He shifted to saying that if I thought there might be a mutual need for that type of conversation he'd like to schedule something.  I gave him some options and he said he'd call me.  That may not happen, or he may not be accepting that this is no longer a potential dating type call, but I feel like, no matter the outcome, I have done what I needed to do.  We'll see if there are any follow up episodes or if this is just a random plot line that doesn't make sense and doesn't go anywhere. 

And because I can't leave the Neighbor B fans hanging... .Neighbor B and I had a brief conversation in WWF last night and I still feel confused about whether he's pulling back or just busy.  He let me know he had an early morning, so I bid him goodnight and didn't try to draw out the conversation.  Today I feel more okay with whatever outcome.  I'm not sure what that means as far as my actions go, but I feel a definite relief of mental space in that area.  I also talked a bit with S15 about Neighbor B's kids and the interaction I've had with them.  I don't want that to be some big secret, and I think I'm able to share enough to keep that from happening without creating questions about how Neighbor B might or might not be involved.  Good thing it's not unnatural for me to be hanging out with random kids.  .

So that's my update for now.  S15 and I are going to do a RockBand session then I'll put in my miles for the day FAR AWAY from Neighbor B. 

[formflier]

Remember... your relationship with God is a relationship.  He is the most patient r/s partner I know. 

All relationships take time and effort.  I pray that you have success drawing closer.

I kinda know what you mean about arms length.  My r/s with God has changed some too.  I read less in the Bible, yet what I do read and focus on... .I spend a lot more time on.

I certainly "don't agree" with Him about the direction he has taken my life.  I do have to acknowledge that I've been there before and after time passed, I see the wisdom in his plan.

There is essentially no "religious" relationship between my wife and I.  Things are calmer that way.  We go to church together and pray over meals, but the last few times I opened my heart and got closer... .she stabbed it... .then claimed she didn't or I "misunderstood" her... standard BPD stuff.

Anyway... .best to you BG.

FF

[BeagleGirl]

It's been a few days, so I thought I'd update.

I have been dealing with anxiety on a level that I haven't felt in a long while.  I'm not sure if I have mentioned this here but 4 years ago, while I was having my affair, I started having panic attacks.  I thought (hoped) that ending the affair would end the anxiety, but I went into full blown GAD (generalized anxiety disorder).  I was very hesitant to go on medication for it, but eventually I reached the point of not wanting to live anymore and went on Lexapro.  I went off briefly when I got pregnant in 2015, but after the repeated miscarriages I was back at a place of not wanting to live and went back on.  I was able to go off last spring and have been doing really well until the past week or so.  I think it's my body's response to all the stress and grief that I haven't fully dealt with, but boy does it suck to have to deal with anxiety as well.

I feel like the resolution I've had in my relationship with God and the place I have come to with my dad are relieving a good portion of the stress I have had.  Things are going really well with S15 and S19 is settling into his new apartment.  dBPDxh is largely out of the picture.  I'm tempted to be hard on myself and look at the remaining anxiety as a sign of weakness in me.  Instead, I'm working on reminding myself that this "quieter" time when things aren't on fire around me is the time to deal with the embers from all I've been through.  Under that thin layer of ash are some pretty hot coals and I'm feeling the heat from them. 

I'm still dreaming of the dog we lost a few weeks ago, and in each of them she is falling down stairs and being hurt and I feel responsible but yet helpless.  dBPDxh was in the last one, and it helped me realize that I'm feeling his loss as well as hers.  I'm also feeling both responsible and helpless for the end of my marriage and the impact that has had on dBPDxh and our boys.  I've told God that I don't know if I can handle knowing whether I could have saved my marriage; whether I did the right thing.  I think I've been bracing for facing His disappointment in me.  This morning I'm reminded of the Prodigal Son and how there's no mention in that story of the son being scolded after returning and I'm thinking that the feast and new robes meant nothing compared to being able to look in the Father's eyes and see only love and joy at the renewed relationship.  This is something that addresses what is probably my deepest core wound.  I am realizing that I have been waiting for the moment when God thought I'd be strong enough for him to sit me down and express His disappointment in me and tell me that I could have saved my marriage if I'd just come to Him sooner.  And I'm realizing that is exactly what my dad has done to me.  BUT my dad is not God.  And I feel like God is trying to tell me that moment that I've been dreading is not coming.  He's not disappointed in me.  He sees my heart takes joy in it.

Well, I bet you didn't know God was going to have a recurring role in this show. 

For you Neighbor B fans out there... .We had a brief text conversation Tuesday night (I initiated) that dropped off kind of suddenly and then no communication Wednesday.  I've been missing that regular contact and feeling lots of fear and confusion about what is behind the drop off.  Does he not like me after all?  Did I screw things up by asking him what this is?  Has he read the rule book again and realized I'm bonkers?  Is this normal and I'm just totally over thinking/reacting?  Am I going to feel like this for whole "waiting period"?  Will he still remember I exist at the end of the "waiting period"?  What if I decide I like "just friends" and don't want the "waiting period" to end?  Why doesn't he want to be my friend?  Yep.  Poor Neighbor B has been a wonderful focus for my anxiety ridden brain.

But in the calm of my evening last night (my anxiety usually is intense in the mornings and almost non-existent in the afternoon/evening) he texted with a witty continuation of our text conversation from Tuesday.  He also let me know that he's been doing little more than work and sleep this week and asked how I was.  We texted back and forth a bit more until S15 finished his T appointment and I let him know I needed to go for now and would chat later.  My youngest dog had escaped and was roaming the neighborhood, so after I got home I let Neighbor B know I was going to be doing my laps around the neighborhood with a leash hoping to have a dog on it by the end.  BeagleP teased by getting almost close enough to catch several times on the first two laps and finally allowed me to clip the leash on her on the last lap, just before we turned the corner to pass Neighbor B's place.  He was out on his porch with his dog, who loves and came bounding to greet BeagleP.  Neighbor B came to retrieve his dog and chat with me.  We talked in a bit more detail about what we each had been dealing with this week.  I was able to ask about having some time with his kids to finish a prank we've been planning and he had no hesitation about me spending more time with them in the near future.  I then asked if our friendship would involve doing things together (yes) and let him know I would be available next Tuesday night if he was interested in doing something (yes, if work lets up a bit for him, leaving it up to him to follow up or not).  So I was more forward than I think my friends or T would feel comfortable with, but I'm trying to find my balance and be authentic to where I am right now as well as where I want to be.  I think I can let go of this idea of "something more" more easily if I have some "just friends" interaction time with him.  I'm not going to push it, but I don't feel too bad about inviting it.  Feel free to yell "YOU'RE JUSTIFYING DYSFUNCTIONAL BEHAVIOR, BEAGLEGIRL!" if you feel that's what I'm doing. 

So that's the latest on BeagleGirl.  Thanks for tuning in. 

[Cat Familiar]

Now that external things in your life have settled somewhat, of course all that anxiety that you didn't have time to process is bubbling to the surface.   

You know how helpful physical exercise is in dealing with anxiety and you're anything but weak. You've been through an extremely trying time with all the changes in your life and all the losses.   

Knowing what I now understand about marriage with a BPD partner, I think there is no shame in throwing in the towel after trying to make the best of it. These marriages will always involve compromise and sacrifice that no one who hasn't been in one would ever understand.

I think your next learning task is to have faith. Faith in good things unfolding in your life without you having to effort. You're a wonderful person who has been through an emotional wringer with a BPD spouse and a father who didn't give you unconditional love. Others see you for who you are. You'll catch up with their understanding of your remarkable goodness--it may take a while, but it's coming.

[BeagleGirl]

You know how helpful physical exercise is in dealing with anxiety and you're anything but weak.

Thank you Cat.  The hugs and kind words mean so much to me.

On the topic of physical exercise - I'll give an update on my half marathon training.  I am currently doing 3-4-3 miles midweek and tomorrow will be 8 miles for my long run.  I've reached that point where I feel challenged but also marvel a bit in the strength and endurance my body is capable of.  Don't get me wrong, I'm not going to set any records.  That's not my goal.  My goal is to give myself and my friends the opportunity to celebrate my ability to endure and finish the race.  The physical exercise has been a sanity saver for me, but having that landmark goal out there has as well. 

My dad texted me this morning.  He needed to vent his frustrations about my mom and talk about the hurt, isolation and embarrassment his physical limitations are causing.  I had the opportunity to hear him without judgement and only offer one suggestion (that he has said he wants to implement and asked me to hold him accountable to).  He joked about moving in with me to escape the chaos with mom and I said "move in, no, but visit, yes".  I made sure he knew it was a real invitation and he's going to consider it. 

I am still doing some care taking in the relationship, but I have felt a shift in myself.  I don't NEED to take care of him.  I'm not booking his plane tickets and figuring out how to get mom to do what he wants her to do or telling him how to handle mom.  I'm not pinning my hopes on having a conversation where he will tell me he understands why I ended my marriage.  I'm just as okay with him deciding to come as deciding not to come. 

It's nice that the anxiety is abating.  I think I may have found a dimmer switch for the overthinking. 

[Insom]

Hey, BeagleGirl! 

Congrats on what sounds like an excellent conversation you had with your dad.  I admire how you were able to express your care while at the same time setting a loving boundary.

How is your half-marathon training going this week?  Did you get that 8-mile run in?

[BeagleGirl]

How is your half-marathon training going this week?  Did you get that 8-mile run in?

Hi Insom,
After a long emotional week last week I got to my favorite running spot on Saturday morning and thought "I may just walk the 8 miles", but it didn't take long for me to transition from walking to jogging and I ended up with a PR for a mile about midway through my run and my overall time per mile was better than the previous week when I did 7 miles. 

I did have an unfortunate run on Wednesday.  About 0.5 miles into my 4 mile run I caught my toe on a raised spot in the sidewalk and did an amazing SuperGirl impression before landing on the sidewalk.  My knees were badly skinned, I had road burn on various parts of my arms and thigh, and my iPhone and Apple Watch screens were both shattered.  A kind woman pulled over to make sure I was okay.  Once I inventoried the extent of the damage I decided to finish out my 4 miles.  I did get one "are you aware you're bleeding" from a man passing me further up the road, but overall it was a decent run.  I took a rest day yesterday but will be back on the road tonight and am pretty sure I'll do my 9 mile run tomorrow.  I have a bit of flexibility since my training schedule has just a 5K slated for tomorrow, but there's a 5K I want to run next weekend when I'm scheduled to do 9 miles so I may just swap weeks.

I've felt my emotions and thoughts stabilize a bit more each day.  I'm still spending more time ruminating about Neighbor B than I feel is healthy, so I'm working on figuring out what is behind that.  I think that some of it is connected to the patterns of overthinking that are probably natural to me and that I developed with my dad and dBPDxh.  I think some of it is looking for validation of what/how Neighbor B feels for me as a means of measuring my worth.  I think some of it is wanting some promise of something more in the future and wanting to work towards that but not being able to.   

My T was pleased to hear that I recognize that I'm spending more time/energy on Neighbor B than I'm comfortable with.  She's been really good about having me pause and celebrate the progress I'm making.  I have been tending to focus on how far I have to go and feeling like I'm a failure because I'm not there yet.  It's good to be reminded that these "small" things are victories to be proud of.

My relationship with my dad has seemed to stabilize as well.  He's been texting me more regularly.  He's dealing with more health issues this week and has tended be fairly negative in his texts.  I'm finding it easier to validate his feelings without trying to fix them.  I tried shifting his attention away from his health issues by sharing my klutzy fall Wednesday and it seems to have worked better than I expected (or wanted).  I hadn't been following the story of the girl who was abducted while running, but my dad has been and my story reminded him that I am a single woman living and running alone.  He's shifted his energy to worrying about me and advising me on how to keep myself safe.  I think that a few weeks ago I would have felt these things as subtle criticism of my decision to divorce, thereby leaving myself vulnerable, or judgement that I'm not capable of taking care of myself.  This week it has been easier to see it as natural concern being expressed by a dad who cares for me and feels helpless to protect me any other way.

I spent some time grieving the impact my divorce has had on S15 and my ability to spend time with him after dropping him off at his dad's.  I don't think I'd allowed myself to hurt over that because I felt that to do so would be hypocritical because I was the one who started the path to divorce (something my T keeps reminding me is not really true, since dBPDxh's behavior put me in a position where I felt it was necessary).  I'm learning to release the guilt and shame and clear the way for grief.  It feels horrible in the moment, but I am hopeful that the healing is happening. 

BG

[Cat Familiar]

I hope you have a good run today. Nice to hear that your feelings are stabilizing. Of course it's fun to think about Neighbor B! You've been subsisting in an emotional desert for years, why wouldn't you enjoy the fantasy of an emotional dessert? But all good things in time... .

That's a nice win on your part to notice that your dad is feeling concerned and protective about you, rather than thinking he was criticizing you! Your triggers here are fading. 

Cat

[BeagleGirl]

Hello all.  I've been taking a break from filming lately, but last night was an interesting "episode". 

One of my best friends (we'll call her L) lives about 4 miles from me.  She recently shared with me and some other friends that her next door neighbors seem to be abusing/neglecting their children.  She called CPS and reported them about 3 years ago, but the kids lied to the interviewers and the net result was to just isolate them further.  A few weeks ago the oldest kid (we'll call her N) started talking with her over their shared fence.  N, who is 18, started breaking down and L invited her to her yard to talk. 

N was pulled out of public school in the 6th grade.  Ostensibly this was so that she could be homeschooled, but in reality she has spent the past 6 years caring for her two younger siblings (also "homeschooled") and the household while her parents are away from home 12+ hours a day.  She has not been allowed to learn to drive and walks to the store to get as many groceries as she can manage on the walk home, feeding the family on $30/week.  She has had sporadic access to the internet, but has managed to maintain some online friendships, not all of which have been healthy.  She has been verbally and emotionally abused by both parents. 

N has self-diagnosed BPD, but I put no confidence in that diagnosis because she is filtering her view of herself through a lifetime of what her parents have said about her.  She has dealt with SI and recently started cutting/burning herself.  She has desperately wanted to leave but feared what would happen to her siblings if she did and seen no way to live on her own.  She was hoping to get her GRD and a job, but when she did an online test she scored at a 3rd or 4th grade equivalence. 

Yesterday N got her grandpa to take her to an orientation for a GRD preparedness program.  Unfortunately, her parents came home from work early and were there when she got home.  Things blew up and when she started to stand up for herself it resulted in her leaving home and her mom telling her to not bother coming back.  She left with the clothes on her back, no shoes, and her phone, which she promptly turned off so her parents couldn't track her.  She went to my friend L's house and L contacted me.

N's parents have no knowledge of my existence or involvement, much less where I live.  When L first came to me and a couple other close friends with her concern for N I told her I would be happy to be a safe place for N to stay while she sorts things out.  With S19 away at college, I have two spare rooms and I am fortunate enough to have plenty of financial resources. 

It looks like I didn't mention much about my new church in previous posts, but that comes in to play in this latest development.  I have been welcomed to an amazing degree by my new church.  Not only have older women surrounded me with love and understanding, I've somehow become one of the 20-somethings crowd.  I think I'm kind of their mascot.    I see this as providence.  I have an 18 year old girl (she'll be 19 in a couple months) who has been isolated and has no idea what it is to be a young adult.  I have a group of 20-somethings who have been loving and welcoming to me, a 42 year old divorcee.  I messaged that group early this morning with a request for prayer and quick summary and they are already anxious to meet N and offering help.

Another area of providence is the work I've been doing to process my experience of abuse.  My experience was nothing near what N's has been, but I am able to listen with a higher level of empathy and assure her that I've had those dark thoughts, she's not alone, and there is hope. 

So that's a brief synopsis of the latest. 

Oh, and for those Neighbor B fans out there... .
I've been working on backing off communication to allow him to take more initiative, meanwhile dealing with the fears that come up when I don't have consistent reassurance that he values me.  More accurately, when I don't FEEL like I have consistent reassurance.  The man has been pretty darn consistent with demonstrating that he values me when I give him a chance to.  He hadn't texted me since Sunday night (gasp!) so yesterday I was working through my new anxiety buster questions - "What am I afraid of?  What is the truth?" in the early afternoon and holding to my decision to let him make the next contact.  Then I got busy with L and N last night.  Around our usual Words With Friends time he played in each of the games and then messaged me "You've been quiet.  Is everything okay?".  I let him know that I was okay but dealing with a situation with someone leaving an abusive home and that I would fill him in later.  He responded with "Good luck, good night, and prayers for you both."  So, yeah, he cares enough to notice when my chatter drops off and be express concern for me.  I'm working on appreciating that for what it is and what it means right now, in this moment without putting a bunch of thought into what it might mean for the future.  He is honoring what he said about wanting to be friends.  That's a treasure I don't want to miss out on.

BG

[Cat Familiar]

How wonderful that you're in a perfect situation through your own experience and understanding--and having a spare room in addition to great connections with young people at your church--that you can help this brave young woman fleeing from an abusive home life.       

Good work giving Neighbor B some empty space to wonder what's going on with you! 

Cat

[Turkish]

Sounds like you are doing a great thing for N-girl 

That situation sounds almost like the plot of a family here in Nor-Cal here last year that made the news.  It's hard for people being abused to stand up for themselves.  The family system adjusts to preserve itself.  The school called CPS on my ex's family due to things her little sister said.  Father was a very violent man.  When CPS came the family lied, kids included.  I remember not saying a lot of what I could have said to CPS when they investigated us when I was 12. It did cross my mind that foster care might have been better than staying with my mother. 

Maybe you and your community there can help N to learn that it's ok to stand up for herself, though it would take time. 

[XSurvivorX]

After "binge-watching" this entire show, all I can say is 

[BeagleGirl]

Time to pop some popcorn.  BeagleGirl is going to go on her first date.

How's that for an episode teaser?  But you'll have to watch the whole episode before we get to that.  (I'm going to pretend you can't just skim/scroll to the end.)

N is a precious girl.  I feel honored that I was able to provide a safe place and listening ear for her.  She needed to talk.  A LOT.  She had started dealing with suicidal and self harm thoughts in the past months that she needed to talk about (nothing active, so I didn't feel the need to report) on top of trying to sort out what was real and "normal".  She's been told by her family that she's selfish and emotionally unstable and all sorts of other  .  She's been lied to and isolated to an extent that she isn't quite sure what's true and what isn't.  When I took her to get shoes (she left home barefoot) she asked what store we were going to and when I told her she said "Oh, that store is closed".  I was pretty sure it wasn't and we were pretty close, so I said we could double check and turn around in their parking lot.  When she saw that it wasn't closed she got the saddest look on her face and said "I don't know what is true.  My dad said this store was closed."  

I was able to listen and validate and share a bit about how I understood some of what she's experienced/experiencing.  By the end of day 2 she said "I feel like I can say anything and I wouldn't shock you."  I responded that she probably couldn't shock me and she definitely couldn't say anything that would make me think she wasn't an amazing and courageous woman who was worthy of so much love.

She couldn't shock me, but she could exhaust me.  Besides the shear number of words that she needed to get out, there was the fact that much of what she had to talk about took me back to many of my darkest memories.  And where I couldn't relate to some of her experiences, I wasn't doing a very good job staying emotionally detached from those either.  By the morning of day 3 I reached a breaking point.  I was handling her pretty much 24 hrs a day (she was having problems sleeping) while trying to be there for S15, prepare for S20's birthday, and figure out how to get her the resources she needed.  And I didn't really have a clear view to a break.  I video messaged my friends a very weepy admission that I was in over my head and they swooped in with encouragement and plans.  L kind of took charge from that point.  I have to say that I'm rather proud of both L and myself.  It's not "normal" for L to be the take charge kind of person and it's definitely not "normal" for me to let go of what I feel is my responsibility, especially when I feel like the need is so great.

L met with N's grandparents.  I had spoken with them on the phone and have some   about her grandpa, but they are family and expressed the intention to help her get schooling and counseling and allowing her to make decisions as she's an adult.  My main fear is that her grandpa is mostly concerned with her getting a job and being able to support herself and live on her own.  This girl needs some space and time to heal, IMHO.  After L and N met with N's grandparents N decided to spend one more night with me and then move in with her grandparents for the foreseeable future.  Her grandparents are allowing her to stay in contact with me and L and I made sure she had emergency money and a way to get in touch with me if she ever feels unsafe.  I've been in contact with her each day and found reasons to visit her at her grandparents every other day.  She seems to feel safe, but also eager to allow L and me to be a part of her life.  I think we will be going to the mall on Sunday (her idea).  

One of the components of my "breakdown" was feeling guilty that I didn't really want N to be a part of S20's birthday celebration, or rather that I wanted it to just be S15, S20 and me.  In the end, it worked out that way, since she moved in with her grandparents that day.  We have been planning S20's birthday "cake" for a couple years.  It all started with a trip to Sweden where we learned the concept of a smorgestorta or "sandwich cake".  I made one for S20's 17th birthday and I have to say it was pretty impressive.  I'm not artistic, but I'm creative.  The cake consisted of about 10 lbs worth of layers of meats, cheeses and breads "iced" with a cream cheese/mayo "frosting and decorated with bacon rosettes with basil leaves.  This was the year of the "warm smorgestorta".  It consisted of, from the bottom up, 4 pizzas stacked as the bottom tier, 10 cheeseburgers stacked in two layers for the next tier, 3 taco bell crunch wraps as the next tier, and a personal chicken pot pie as the topper.  Oh, and 17 bacon skewers and 3 candles to mark his 20th birthday (I was totally bummed that I didn't have 20 bacon skewers, but gave myself a break based on the week I'd had).

Throw in a birthday party for L's D13 that my S15 attended, followed by a sleep over for L's S14 and another friend of S15 at my place and you have a pretty good handle on what I remember of last week.

Oh, and Beagle girl managed to get herself into poison ivy AGAIN while clearing brush on Sunday.  I need my sleep and based on how it's itching now, I broke down and asked my doctor for steroids today.

Neighbor B fans will be happy to know he's still listed as part of the cast, though he's not had much screen time.  He's got a really big project going on that required him to work all weekend and he's been putting in 10-12 hour days so far this week.  I'm still trying to create some space for him to be a bit more in charge of the pace of our interactions, so I've managed to not suggest getting together, and I haven't taken him any of the lasagna I made Monday night, and I've not initiated any conversations until today (sent a text that didn't require a response, but that could still count as initiating).  We still play WWF each night and messages at least a quick "I'm turning in now.  Long day at work.  Sleep well." that I respond to with similar brevity and wishes.

And now Neighbor B fans are saying "Wait.  She teased a date.  Why didn't she say anything about a date in the previous paragraph?"

That's because there's a new character on The Adventures of BeagleGirl.  

I joined a couple dating sites a couple months ago at the urging of my BFFs.  They were concerned that Neighbor B not be the only "horse in the race".  I seemed to hit it off with "Nerdy Doctor" pretty quickly, but we found that our religious views were different enough to be a deal breaker and moved on.  I had a one sided (his side) whirlwind messaging romance with "Short Guy" before strongly and repeatedly suggesting he move on.  I've exchanged a few messages with "Blue Eyes" and told "Persistent Old Guy" I'm really not interested in someone so much older than me.  

And then there's "Cat Guy".  I'm going to give you his storyline in flashback mode.  All of the following occurred over the course of the past 6 weeks.

He "liked" me and messaged me asking questions that indicated he'd read my profile and thought about it.  I checked his profile and suggested to him that he should move on because I'm allergic to cats and he has cats.  He countered with "I'd never allow a pet to get in the way of a promising relationship."  I was willing to go with that and answered his original questions.  We messaged a bit, enough to determine we share religious views and both place the same emphasis on that aspect of potential dating candidates.  He suggested a phone call.  I was a bit hesitant, and suggested more messaging.  Then, after consulting with my BFFs, I consented to exchanging phone numbers.  We set up a day and time frame for a call with the understanding that he would call me.  He texted that morning and said he couldn't make the time frame we agreed to and suggested a later time.  I declined that time (I was picking up S15 and starting a custody week) and suggested other times during the following week.  He said he thought he could make the tail end of the time frame we had originally discussed work.

Then he didn't call.  And he didn't text the next two days to apologize for not calling or set up a different time to talk.  I wrote him off.

But then three weeks later, on a Friday night when I wasn't doing anything, he called.  I picked up.  We had a 30 minute talk where I was myself (not feeling the need to impress him) and allowed him to lead the conversation, which meant there were some "awkward" silences that I was really okay with.  I was open with him about my serious doubts about him as a dating candidate because of the lack of follow through on the phone call.  I also let him know that a guy would need to pursue me because I'm not in any hurry to be in a relationship and I've been in a relationship where I did the pursuing and that didn't go so well. (Those of you reading can TOTALLY call BS, because you know I'm fighting to not be in a hurry to be in a relationship with a certain friendly neighbor... .but Cat Guy doesn't need to know that).  He left off that conversation without any clear indication of when he might contact me again.  I'm not pursuing and, while our conversation was good, I still have my doubts about him after the phone call fail 3 weeks earlier.

4 days later he texts to say he hoped my week was going well.  I responded with "It is.  I hope yours is as well".  

5 days later he checks in to see how my weekend went and shared some about his weekend.  We texted back and forth for about 1.5 hrs.  Mostly getting to know you stuff.  

I decided there was a pattern and placed my bet on him texting me again within the next 4-5 days.  6 days went by.  I decided to write him off again.

So then today - 10 days after the previous text exchange - he texts me the now familiar "How's your week going?"  I responded with what I felt was an opening for him to ask more questions "Quieter than last week, but pretty well."  He didn't take that bait.  Instead he asked if I would be willing to meet him for drinks this weekend.  

So we're meeting for drinks at 4:30 on Saturday.  He has suggested a Mexican place at a midpoint between us.  He already has some strikes against him, and I really am not in a hurry to start a relationship (Yes, yes, I know.  We'll just say from this point on that the Neighbor B caveat is assumed).  I figure this is good dating practice with far less pressure than I would be dealing with if I dated someone I knew/liked.  

Now I need to figure out whether I have shoes to match my casual sombrero.  I'm assuming a 4:30 date means casual.  Maybe I should bring a purse large enough to hold my evening sombrero in case we hit it off and he suggests extending drinks to dinner... .What you think?

Seriously though.  This is where audience participation would be much appreciated.  

I'm pretty sure I can handle myself on a date, but the fact I've never really been on one does have me wondering if I might be a little clueless and miss cues.  I do tend to be very clueless about when men are "hitting on" me, but I guess since we'll be on a date the assumption will be that he's interested in me, so I think I'm good on that.

Well, that's it for this episode.  Looks like the fall season may be heating up.  

[Cat Familiar]

So sweet of you to be so good to N.    You’ve given her a liferope (since it’s talk like a pirate day)... .

And good that you’re going on a practice date with cat man. Always nice to sharpen your skills. 

[BeagleGirl]

(since it’s talk like a pirate day)... .

Arrrr.  So you be sayin this little scalawag missed the chance to do an entire episode in pirate speak?  I be needen to walk the plank for that!

[flourdust]

By all means, go on the date and think of it as a practice date. (I'm considering my first-date-post-divorce which is coming up in a few days as much the same.)

But ... .as a guy, I think this guy is a total unreliable flake. He seems impulsive, not genuinely interested. I'd say the odds are 50/50 that instead of showing up, he cancels at the last minute or simply doesn't make an appearance. Even if he does show and you have a nice time, unless he shapes up really really fast, he's shown you a history of being unable to communicate consistently.

I don't want to be a total Debbie Downer. Maybe it will be completely different once you meet in person. Early signs don't look good, though... .

[Cat Familiar]

I agree with flourdust about this guy being a flake. But if you're wanting to practice, why not just use this date as a great opportunity? And as a cat person, I'd say no way is he gonna get rid of the cats for a relationship, particularly if he calls himself Catman.

It will be a good excuse not to hug him, for the sake of preventing an allergy attack. 

[formflier]

I like the practice date... .and I really hope the guy comes through, if nothing else so you can "practice".

I agree there "strikes"... maybe "potential strikes" against him, yet it really depends on context.  If it turns out he is a guy with not much going on in his life... .that's a big strike.

If he has tons going on, then I wouldn't think much of it... he's busy and you guys were at super early stage.  

I hate to admit it... .but I'm always apologizing to people for being late getting back in touch.  Life seems to consume me.  Not exactly the same thing... but similar.

I also like that you answered when he called... and dove right in.  That's good.  Seems very self aware... .

Also... .there was action versus overthinking... .(from a fellow sufferer of that disorder... nice work!)

I like this show!  

FF

[Cat Familiar]

I like this show!  

One of my favorite channels too. 

[BeagleGirl]

I should probably clarify that he doesn't call himself "Cat Guy".  That was the name I gave him.  His username was much more... .I don't know how to describe it.  It was a username that made me think he is a bit introspective rather than the usual utilitarian or cheesy usernames I usually see.

As a BeagleGirl, I tend to see his statement about not letting an animal stand in the way of a relationship as a  .  If it had been a dog, then it would have been a   (sorry Cat).  

[Cat Familiar]

I'm kinda reeling because our neighbors moved out of state and got rid (didn't ask how) of their two dogs, one cat and three chickens so they could be renters without animals while they shopped for a new house. It broke my heart thinking about how that must have been for their animals. I'm still grieving for their fates.

On the bright side, the new buyers moved into that house and they're awesome. I've gotten to know more about them in a couple of conversations than I knew about the previous owners in 12 years.

[MeandThee29]

I'm kinda reeling because our neighbors moved out of state and got rid (didn't ask how) of their two dogs, one cat and three chickens so they could be renters without animals while they shopped for a new house. It broke my heart thinking about how that must have been for their animals. I'm still grieving for their fates.

Oh, my. I'd feel the same way. We are as attached to our rescue dog as she is to us. It was very stressful finding a rental house where we could take her as we prepared to put the family home on the market. Thankfully we found one owned by a landlord who loves dogs, and the previous owner had dogs. It's a very dog-friendly neighborhood with a lot of other dog owners.

[BeagleGirl]

The episode you've all been waiting for... .BeagleGirl's first date.

Wait?  Is it a date?

Because, in typical sitcom fashion, BeagleGirl got herself into another "Is this a date?" situation. 

I kind of skipped a whole segment in the Cat Guy flashback scene.  I failed to mention (and was reminded by my friends after agreeing to drinks with Cat Guy) that after he missed our scheduled phone call and didn't text to apologize or reschedule I didn't just write him off in my head.  I told him (via text message) that I wasn't interested in moving forward with a potential dating relationship, but would be willing to talk as two people who shared the same faith and had gone through recent divorces.  I know the loneliness and isolation that can cause and got this feeling that he might be jumping into dating when what he really wanted was someone to talk to, so I offered friendship. 

Cat Guy: "My apologies for not getting back to you.  I am a little concerned about not being a match for dating , but I am not quick to jump to conclusions.  Not enough data to make a judgment  If you are interested in still connecting, let me know what days or times you are available."

BeagleGirl: "No judgment here, just following my heart and my heart says you need a sister in Christ, not a date candidate in me.  If that's not ringing true in your heart then I don't think we need to set up a time to talk.  If it is, then I'll give you some options."

Cat Guy: "If there is mutual need, then you may give me some options."

Then followed discussions of when each of us could be available for a phone call, ending with him saying he would give me a call with no specific day/time mentioned.  As previously mentioned, he did call me, three weeks later, out of the blue.

So with that little plot twist, I started wondering if he had also (conveniently) forgotten that whole conversation and was moving forward as if this was a potential dating relationship, or if I had made that shift and was now at risk of being a fickle female.  Our phone call and text exchanges have felt more like vetting a date than establishing a friendship to me, but what do I know?  I've never dated.  So I spent a bit of time mulling over whether I should try to clarify what his expectations were and/or express my willingness to take a step back from "no dating potential" to "I'll keep an open mind".  I consulted my BFFs and got mixed opinions and ultimately decided to just leave it alone and see, after the first "date?" whether it was worth clarifying. 

Friday night my BFFs and I met for dinner and then did an impromptu shopping trip to get me a "date?" outfit.  I won't go into details (taking into consideration the male audience that would probably start flipping channels if I did) but I came home with 4 new outfits.  It was actually a much needed shopping trip, because I have lost about 45lbs this year and my options for well fitting clothes are getting slimmer than I am.  I had an option for a "date!" outfit and a "date?" outfit and two more outfits to just fill out my closet. 

Cat Guy texted me yesterday morning to say he was looking forward to seeing me (date!), but I still went with the "date?" outfit. (I know I've probably lost the male audience on this whole outfit concept, but I'm pretty sure you ladies know what I'm talking about).

And now I'm going to do one of those really annoying mid-plot story line switches.  Bear with me for a moment as we shift over to the Neighbor B story line.

Neighbor B's work project has been at a critical juncture this past two weeks, which meant he had to work last weekend and was putting in 10-13 hour days this week.  I resisted initiating any conversation with him Monday and Tuesday, so communication was limited to good night messages from him in WWF each of those nights, to which I responded in kind.  Wednesday I texted him a picture of the ominous sky - didn't require a response but I guess it sent a "thinking of you" kind of message.  He responded and started a text conversation Wednesday night, but all of the conversation was about him and his week with no questions about how/what I was doing.  I wasn't exactly bothered by this, but I did notice it.  He shared that the next day (Thursday) was decision day and would either mean a project delay, a hard push to complete on time (which could mean another mandatory weekend of work that would mean another week of custody time with his kids lost), or a combination of the two. I (overfunctioning) asked if there was anything I could do to help, mentioning that I could let his dog out in the evening when he needed to work late.  He said he had thought of asking me to do that and said he'd take me up on the offer.

So Thursday night I went and let his dog out.  His dog is 14 and has a hard time getting up off the floor and has been having "accidents" pretty frequently.  I found him in the kitchen, helped him get on his feet and cleaned up the mess I found.  I went and sat on the front porch and he was more in the mood to hang out and be petted than to explore the yard, so we sat and enjoyed each other's company for about 20 minutes before he was ready to go back in.  During those 20 minutes I was noticing that Neighbor B's lawn needed to be mowed.

(This is the part where those of you who are wanting BeagleGirl to back off an bit and give Neighbor B the opportunity to decide if he values time with her and demonstrate that decision through actions can start yelling at your "TV".  I'm picturing you doing so, just like I yell at the girl going down the dark basement stairs in a horror movie when the music is clearly indicating that the serial killer is waiting for her in the basement.)

So BeagleGirl (who happened to have come straight from work and was still in business attire) kicked off her heels and mowed Neighbor B's lawn.  In my defense, I can say that I would rather have done it in a way that would have left Neighbor B with no clue who had done it.  I didn't want him to get the wrong impression that I was doing it as some sort of bid towards starting a relationship.  I can't say I didn't want him to know that I'm the kind of person who does that sort of thing and hoped that would be endearing, but I have mowed another neighbor's (single working mom) lawn before with motivation very similar to my primary motivation for mowing Neighbor B's lawn.  He's been working crazy hours and I knew that if he wasn't required to work the weekend again I wanted him to be able to spend as much time with his kids as possible.  Mowing his lawn would give him that extra time.  That thought gave me joy.  So I mowed his lawn and tried to think of ways to communicate to him that this wasn't crazy stalker lawn mowing.

I let his dog out for a bit longer after the lawn was done and cleaned up his "business" while he explored the yard, then put him back inside and fed him.  I went home with a light heart and texted him an update on his dog so he'd know he'd done his "business" and been fed.

Neighbor B texted me when he got home to thank me for letting his dog out.

Neighbor B:  "My grass seems shorter"
BeagleGirl:  "That's strange.  I don't think I know anyone else who measures their grass.  Do you use a ruler or calipers?"
Neighbor B:  "That's the kind of prank I could get used to!"

(BeagleGirl breathes a sigh of relief that Neighbor B hasn't called for a restraining order and seems to be taking the lawn mowing as a friendly gesture)

We texted back and forth a bit more about his work.  I noticed that there was no inquisitiveness about how my week was going or what I was doing.  Maybe that's because he's assuming that I'll share what I want to share, but it kind of struck me that most of our conversations are not only initiated by me but also seem a bit one sided.

So Friday and Saturday I felt like I was transitioning from not just thinking that I need to step back from Neighbor B, but feeling that I need to step back from Neighbor B.  I even started to entertain the idea of breaking up with Neighbor B (the break up would only need to be in my head, since the relationship is only in my head).  I didn't feel a sense of urgency to make any decisions or take any actions, but I felt like I was a bit more comfortable with the idea that Neighbor B may not want/be able to offer the level of engagement that I want.  My feelings started to shift from having to stop myself from initiating contact to wanting to feeling it was best for me to not initiate contact.  Friday passed with no WWF, and no texts from him.  The only contact we had was him slowing and waving as he passed my house on his way home from work (I was outside getting my yardwork done). 

So Saturday morning ("Date?day" morning) dawns.  I met a friend for coffee.  Cat Guy texted to say he was looking forward to meeting me later.  I did my 11 mile training run.  Went home and got ready for my "date?".  I got to the restaurant pretty early, but just waited in my car until 2 minutes before our meeting time.  When I went in Cat Guy approached me with a smile and casual hug (wasn't sure how that would go, but it wasn't too uncomfortable).  He had already gotten us a table.  We ordered drinks and appetizers.  I hadn't been too nervous, but had wondered if conversation would be awkward.  It wasn't.  One of my friends commented later that she thinks I could have a sparkling conversation with a door knob because that's the kind of person I am.   I think she's right, but he held up his end of the conversation well.  We talked on a wide variety of topics.  I think he was pleased with my company and conversation.  I felt like he did a decent amount of sharing without oversharing.  I don't know if there was "chemistry".  I think I may be a bit slower on physical attraction than intellectual attraction. Maybe he would have to beat me at Words With Friends for me to feel chemistry.    We talked for about 2.5 hrs before I mentioned that time had flown and started making moves to close the conversation and leave.  He paid (I offered but he declined) and walked me to my car.  He hugged me good bye.  We had both stated that we enjoyed our conversation and meeting one another, but there was no mention of further contact.  From what I've read, it's not unusual to wait a couple days after the date to make contact, and he's been a bit "slow" on follow up in the past, so I figure I'll give him a couple more days before writing him off.  I'm honestly okay either way.  I wouldn't mind meeting up again, but I won't be crushed if I never hear from him again.  There weren't any  in our discussion that I could see.  The closest I would say to a  was that his recent divorce was his second divorce.  He disclosed that during our discussion, not knowing that one of my friends had already gotten that information online (she's frighteningly good at that kind of thing).  He didn't talk about how/why his marriages ended and I kind of feel like that would have been sharing too much too soon, so if we do see each other again I think that's something I'd want to understand a bit better to determine what color flag it would be.

I left the restaurant a bit hungry (I had run 11 miles and not eaten much of the appetizers) and REALLY needing to pee (I drank a lot of water over the 2.5 hrs) so I sent a quick text to the friends who were waiting to hear how the date went and video messaged them on the drive home.  They had been sending a flurry of video messages to me during my date (I think I can remove the ?, but maybe that's a good audience poll question), so I had just kicked off my shoes, taken a bio break and was watching their messages while contemplating a peanut butter sandwich when... .

INCOMING TEXT FROM NEIGHBOR B.

[Cat Familiar]

Cliffhanger alert 

I can hardly wait for the next episode. 

[Harri]

This topic has been locked as it has reached the post limits.

See Part 2 here: https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=329409.0