My ex asking to put final separation on hold

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Hi family,

have told my story here, on each board.

We are separated, 10 months now of not dating.
I have gone low contact, as we have vehicles in common and his treasured possessions are in our house, he left them.

So, last development, i got help around moving all his things in to a 10x10 storage unit.  Let him know on xx day, his things will be available, he will have two months to retrieve/abandon.  That was going to happen in a week.

After that email, he asked if he could call.
He called, said essentially his current r/s is likely over, would i be willing to put everything on hold for two months.?
in that moment,  said yes i will.

I made a commitment to myself to not ask him questions, that makes me crazy, as what he says, has not a lot of reality associated with it.  I made a commitment to only look at actions.
So, the call from his was an action, he reached out, gave me information(likely broken up w current person), and he made a request.  So here i am, there is now a new deadline, oct 1.

Guess i wanted support around what i am doing.

It feels good that i found it within myself to allow more time.  I dont know why he wants more time.

That is huge for me.   To not ask questions, demand answers... .

i am in the space of i dont know.

And its o.k.

Thank you everyone who has listened,
j

[juju2]

Hi family,

have told my story here, on each board.

We are separated, 10 months now of not dating.
I have gone low contact, as we have vehicles in common and his treasured possessions are in our house, he left them.

So, last development, i got help around moving all his things in to a 10x10 storage unit.  Let him know on xx day, his things will be available, he will have two months to retrieve/abandon.  That was going to happen in a week.

After that email, he asked if he could call.
He called, said essentially his current r/s is likely over, would i be willing to put everything on hold for two months.?
in that moment,  said yes i will.

I made a commitment to myself to not ask him questions, that makes me crazy, as what he says, has not a lot of reality associated with it.  I made a commitment to only look at actions.
So, the call from his was an action, he reached out, gave me information(likely broken up w current person), and he made a request.  So here i am, there is now a new deadline, oct 1.

Guess i wanted support around what i am doing.

It feels good that i found it within myself to allow more time.  I dont know why he wants more time.

That is huge for me.   To not ask questions, demand answers... .

i am in the space of i dont know.

And its o.k.

Thank you everyone who has listened,
j

[formflier]

  I dont know why he wants more time.

 

So... .in the meantime, I'm sure you've solved the vehicle issues and the only remaining entanglement is the stuff, which he got 2 more months for free... right?

FF

[BeagleGirl]

Juju2,

I can imagine that this is very confusing for you.  A 10 year relationship that you have invested so much of yourself in is not something to let go of without really KNOWING it's over.  I do want to raise a  and point you to something you said at the beginning of your "Placeholder" topic.


"What i am beginning to see is our ten yr r/s was a placeholder, i was the one invested in the r/s, he was there w me, as he had no where else to be.   Our r/s was a placeholder.  he was always flirting w other women, refused to make any long range plans w me, our home was a place to be until something better was a better place to be."

I am concerned that he is now finding himself with no "better place" to be and is asking you to save a spot for him.  I understand that you have seen a lot of progress in him over the past 10 months, but I would ask you to pause and ask yourself if this request by him might indicate that he hasn't addressed this very painful attitude/behavior of using you as a placeholder.

I am wondering if now might not be the best time to exercise your restraint on questioning.  I think it's an admirable goal to be working towards (I struggle with this myself), but I think it's very important to start by asking whether he is a "safe" person to be gifted with the trust you have to give to not question.

How would it feel to say "I think we need a clean break in our old relationship before we can consider forming a new one"?  How would it feel to ask him "What is the purpose of waiting 2 months?"  How would it feel to ask yourself "What will I be doing with and for myself during those 2 months if I decide to grant them?"

If you were to ask questions, what would they be?  Maybe we can help you sort through which are worth asking and which may need rephrasing or restraint.

BeagleGirl

[formflier]

Here is my dream for juju2


I hope that she can get all "entanglements" gone from a relationship that "might" be a placeholder for him.

Then, if the only reason you are still talking and spending time together is because you enjoy spending time together... .there might be something to build on

I'm very concerned with what BeagleGirl has brought up.  I wasn't aware that most or all of the time with you, was due to no other options.

FF

[juju2]

Hi ff and bg

it is problematic.  I get it.

I guess being in a r/s w someone w BPD, all the symptoms, isnt rewarding per se.  Its more challenging than anything else.

Came to the conclusion he had no where else to be because he was always flirting w other women around me... .if that is what he was doing when i was there, what in g-d name was he doing when i wasnt there.?


That specific behaviour led me to think he had no better options... .and other stuff... .he displayed in public, disrespect toward me.  I am sharing all the bad stuff.  He could be also the opposite of this.and everything in between.  He has BPD.
He is interesting, smart, funny, hardworking TOO.
All of the symptoms and also a great person. He is attractive, very fit.
During our time living together, i gained over fifty lbs, let myself go, our sex life tanked.  He said i was "just like all the other women he was with, gained weight and lost interest in sex".

The vehicles.  I drive the expensive one, my credit is shot.  We both signed for it, his credit, my income.  My only choice in getting it in my name is improving my credit score.  Took a pay cut, my credit score tanked, and so i do not see a way other than turning in the keys to the lender.  He drives the other one, i could ask him to get it refi into his name.  P.s. on that phone call he mentioned his credit is bad.(and, he said we live together, for the purpose of getting the loan on the expensive vehicle.) So on paper, it looked like we could afford it.

Actually, i emailed him that i want to get each vehicle into one name.  And said if it isnt possible on the vehicle i drive, i would turn in the keys.
He never responded to that email.  Huh.

I see that i could turn the vehicle in.  I guess i am waiting the two months, that will make it 1 year.

Part of me just wants to fold up and crawl away.
This story sounds horrible.

When we met, we did have a lot of attraction, chemistry.  Everything about his BPD cropped up, no executive function, rage, lies, all the symptoms, crazy driving... .it ground me down.  The bad was more there than the good  and i also was toxic, had my own addiction( 14 months free!), we both saw we were a toxic combo, yet, during that time together, we tried to get kids (his adult kids, they lived w us, doing drugs behind our back) off drugs, etc,etc, our living situation was chaos, and yet we had something.  We pushed thru all the challenges... .like i read every day on here.  People making the r/s work.  Its heartbreaking

[juju2]

I am painting a bad picture.

He just emailed me a cute email, caring.

I guess it all depends on each of us taking very good care of our emotional well being, taking great self care, not blaming, not being a victim.
No one can make me anything:happy, sad, unfulfilled, crazy.  Its my life, my movie!

I have seen, couples who make it work, ff, you make it work.   Jessica84 makes it.  There are more, many more.

I want to get back to making it work.
I am in much better physical, mental, spiritual space.

I believe in prayer.  I believe.
I believe in God.

[formflier]

So... you present him with reality (things that need to be dealt with) and he responds with reaching out... cute things... nice emails.  reality goes away for another couple months.

Promises are made... .time goes by... .ignore a couple emails... .send a couple cute things... .reality waits for a few more months.

There is a lot of "kicking the can down the road"... a lot of waiting.

Where are YOU taking your life? 

FF

[juju2]

Point taken.

Two months isnt going to make or break.

I live a full life.

Register for art and other classes next week.

Thank you for caring.!

I have a family, kids who are on their own, who want to see me, friends, work.  Its all going to be ok.
Come what may.

[juju2]

So, am giving myself two weeks, prayer, consultation w my sponsor, and all of you, to find best choice w the vehicles.

Two weeks

[formflier]

I would hope you can practice... ."Let me give that some thought... ."

as a response for the next time you are asked to relent on some action that "disentangles".

Honestly... .it's a good response for just about anything that he might send your way.

I get the sense that you feel as though you created an obligation that can be undone by agreeing to his request.  Is that accurate?

FF

[juju2]

Hi f,

to be honest, the only way i got this house, was w his help.  He covered our bills until i could save up the $ for the downpmt.

Am working with him, he has worked w me... .

I really think he is testing me, he hasnt been around me for ten months.  If he is going to see about reconnecting, he might want to know if i am still good to deal with, if we still have kindness and concern for one another... ?

he also wants to know if i have my co d under control.  He has dipped his toe in the water, i havent overwhelmed him w any questions or going over his emotional level he is sharing w me... .

All good things.  Progress!

[formflier]

 
All those things are possible.

I want you to think about what is "probable", especially given what you have learned here... and what you have seen from his behavior over the course of the relationship.

I agree he is testing you... .  In my opinion he sees you putting up boundaries to be your own person, not waiting for him... not under his influence... .and he is seeing if he can "pull those down".

That's generally what "boundary busters" do.  Most pwBPD are "boundary busters".


I noticed that you didn't answer my question or comment about my suggestion about what you will say for the next request... .when he wants (fill in blank)... .most likely to sort out another relationship.

FF

[BeagleGirl]

Juju,
I agree with you that some “testing” at this stage is a good idea. The two of you obviously had issues large enough to bring about the end of a 10 year relationship and if the two of you have not grown and changed in those areas then you are setting yourselves up for an incredible amount of hurt.

So what were the issues that ended the relationship for you?  What are YOUR tests?

I’m going to ask you to pause for a moment and look at how your ex hurt you WITHOUT examining your contribution to the end of the relationship.  There will be a time and place for that, but it’s important to not short circuit the memories of the pain he caused by excusing and justifying his actions. That includes explaining them to yourself as the result of his BPD. 10 months can go a long way towards dampening the pain, especially when the loneliness and longing are causing their own pain.

Please know that I’m not trying to talk you out of giving this relationship the opportunity to continue. I want you to avoid the doing so in a way that may leave you with regrets.

From where I sit, you seem pretty focused on whether you have grown and changed enough to be who you want to be for him and whether you are more equipped to deal with his BPD. I feel like now is the time to ask whether he has become (is becoming) who he needs to be for you and whether you really are ready to commit to life with a BPD SO. I also admire those who have managed to make their BPD relationships work, but I think that most of them would admit that part of doing so means living with a deep ache and longing for something they know their pwBPD will probably never be able to offer them. They have accepted that because they have children together or their value system tips the scales towards staying. That is not a decision to be undertaken without facing the hard parts head on. Thus my suggestion for refreshing your memories of the pain you experienced.

BG

[juju2]

Hi Ff and Bg,

I will give that some thought, can i get back to you.?

[formflier]

Sure thing.

However, I would recommend you at least make some notes in an email of how you would answer the question "right now".  Your "gut reaction".

Then, give it some thought... reflect... .try to get out of your heart and into your head some.

I bet there will be a difference in your "first reaction" and a "thoughtful reply"... which... to be frank... is what I'm asking you to never again respond right away to a request he has for you.

Hmmmm... .I wonder what FF means or hopes to accomplish by suggesting that?

FF

[juju2]

Hi family,

Ff, what you are teaching is a powerful way of being.  I have been hard wired to just respond during the moment.  Maybe i can practice this new tool w all of you.

[juju2]

And, thank you my family here.
You all are caring. and appreciated.

Bg,

As far as remembering the hurts, what is the intention of bringing up the past.

My spiritual path that i am on now, teaches me to forgive, make things right that i have done wrong.
I get nothing by holding on to resentments
(past hurts).

I have been present to healing, kindness, and community by being on the path.

[formflier]

My spiritual path that i am on now, teaches me to forgive, make things right that i have done wrong.
I get nothing by holding on to resentments
(past hurts).
 

Perhaps we are talking about two different things. 

I'll answer what I "think" BG means... and certainly what it means to be.  Hopefully BG can guide the answer a bit if I miss the mark.

Forgiveness is great.  I'm not at all suggesting you not forgive.  I also don't want you to "forget" the pain of the resentment and his actions.

Because if you forget... .it's very likely that you get to experience resentment and pain again.

Now... life tells us this will come along again.  However, many of us get "stuck" have the same thing happen over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over (should I continue?)

And we are filled with resentment and yes he could have changed and stopped... .and so could have we

That's the point... .I want you to remember so that YOU are thoughtful and deliberate about choosing different relationship patterns.

The pattern that I see... .and that BG sees... .and others is that you willingly wait on him to sort out his other relationships to see if he has time for you

Even right now "it's likely" that his other thing is over and so you pause and "wait for him to sort out his OW relationship".  There is a thought that "it's only 2 months" and if was the first time this pattern happened I would agree with your course of action.

Be frank with yourself... .this is not a new pattern for either of you.  My guess is that you are as relieved as he is to "kick the can down the road".


FF

[juju2]

you may be right f.

may i get back to you, want to give this some thought.

[juju2]

Maybe someone here has experience they can share, i read someones story, his wife went to another state for like 3 years to live w her b/f and husb took her back... .they are married now

I have two married friends (2 couples)
That have gone thru a break, one two years, one three years... .
One of them was in a r/s while my friend waited and worked on herself... .

I feel like a new person, and frankly, it feels to me like i don't know him.   I am ok with where i am.

[Cat Familiar]

What's past is prologue.

Forgiveness is completely different than refusing to reexamine our footsteps.

[juju2]

I get it.

I do not think i can forgive him without looking at my footsteps.

Otherwise, how can it be complete.

[Cat Familiar]

Actually what I was intending with my previous message is that you keep in mind how he's behaved toward you and whether you will tolerate more of that type of behavior in the future.

What I've learned from participating here is that pwBPD can be very predictable. Often I've seen members describe nearly word-for-word some of the conversations I've experienced in the past with various pwBPD--my mother, my ex-husband, my current husband.

As much as we'd like to believe that BPD can go away, I don't think it's possible without a concerted effort on the part of the pwBPD, and by that I mean intensive counseling with DBT.

You've made a lot of progress in your own healing.    You're far less likely to trigger him in the future. That said, those triggers will still be there. And it's your choice whether or not you want to have a close relationship with a pwBPD whose behavior you've previously experienced, and are likely to experience again, whether or not you've made positive steps in your own healing.

[formflier]

I'll be specific about what would change my mind.

him to you "Hey babe... thanks for all your support keeping my stuff at your place.  I'll be over this weekend to get it moved out"


To me... that would be different.

Or... anything close to that...

FF

[BeagleGirl]

Juju,

FF did a good job of expanding on what I meant by the request to consider how your pwBPD has hurt you, but I'll expand a bit more.

I will say first off that remembering the hurt is not incompatible with letting go of resentment.  If you had re-entered the relationship or were at a certain stage of detachment from it I would probably be a bit more cautious about revisiting the hurts and more focused on staying in the present.  But when you are trying to decide whether it is wise to re-enter the relationship or proceed with detaching, THIS is the time to look very honestly at what you have been shown you can expect from him. 

I did a lot of study around the concepts of repentance and forgiveness last year while separated from my dBPDxh.  One thing I learned is that forgiveness does not require reconciliation.  I also clarified what repentance looked like.  Unfortunately, I had cause (my affair) to have experience repentance and I started to notice the difference between how I handled that situation and how dBPDxh was handling the hurtful behaviors in our marriage.  I am not claiming to have done repentance perfectly, but I do know the components that have led me to be confident that I will never go down that road again in any way shape or form.  The key difference is that I took responsibility for my actions and refused to justify them.  Had dBPDxh done things that created an environment that made my affair more understandable?  Yes.  Did that justify what I did.  NO! 

So I started to define what behaviors I was no longer willing to live with and look for signs of repentance in those areas.  I started putting hope to the side while doing so, because I was very well practiced in finding reasons to believe that dBPDxh had repented.  I can tell you that I was often very ready to either take things off my "requirements" list or excuse/explain his actions so that I could have hope for our marriage.  Fortunately (?) those times when I was most ready to reconcile without repentance dBPDxh would do something that clearly showed a lack of change/repentance. 

I found this site very soon after our separation and I was starting to use the tools.  It didn't take me long to figure out that if I went back to my marriage before seeing any significant change the best I could hope for was to learn to better cope with the behaviors and possibly influence him to change some of them by changing my response to them.  I was watching members like FF, who have had success with changing patterns in that way.  dBPDxh started DBT, so there was some hope in that.  BUT our interactions didn't seem to be showing change.  dBPDxh was continuing to justify the past behaviors that I now saw as unacceptable.  Oh, I could get him to parrot back a "sincere" apology and reasoning why what he had done was wrong and what he would do differently in the future if I JADEd enough.  That was my pattern.  But only minutes later he would be back to excusing/justifying his actions.  So I stopped JADEing and started listening.  What I heard was no different from what I had been living out for so many years.  I knew that if he could still justify his behaviors, there was no reason to believe he would stop them.  I kept saying "no" to reconciliation as long as those beliefs/behaviors were still present.  Eventually he heard my "no" enough times to believe it and decided he couldn't or didn't want to change in the way I was requiring for reconciliation and he moved on to a new relationship. 

I believe that people can change.  I believe that pwBPD can find help and healing and alter their behaviors in a way that will make relationship with them fulfilling IF THEY WANT TO.  I believe that those who love pwBPD can change their expectations and behaviors in such a way that they are less susceptible to the pain that a relationship with a pwBPD can cause and can have a better relationship.  Neither of those changes is dependent on the other, so in that way one person can change a relationship for the better.  I also believe that a whole and healthy relationship requires two partners with equal commitment to maintaining and bettering that relationship.  I don't believe that dBPDxh was willing to make that commitment (he said he was, but his actions didn't seem to support that) and I question whether I could have ever reconciled myself to the limited improvement that could be gained by my use of the tools. 

So that's where I'm coming from when I give my opinion on your situation. 

I think FF and I are seeing the same  .  I don't believe repentant person would be asking for your blind trust in this time.  It is admirable that you are wanting to offer it, but trust, especially when it has been previously broken, should be earned over a (probably long) period of time and at a (probably high) price.  I don't believe a person who was willing to pay that kind of price and grant that period of time would be holding onto the relationship surreptitiously through shared possessions and asking for 2 months.  I believe they would allow/facilitate the clean break so that there could be a fresh start and granting freedom while they readied themselves for that fresh start, or getting to it right away.

I've written a lot and it'd probably a lot to process.  I'll pause here so you have time to respond/ask questions.

BG   

[juju2]

Bg

Appreciate all you have graciously shared.

I guess am not understanding the issue about two months.  I have it like he needs two months to see if i am healthier, to see if we could create something.?  I may be way off... .
The dynamics of us stopping dating ten months ago was unusual.  Plus, him telling a mutual friend that i was relapsed, that was huge.  In recovery, if someone is relapsed, a caring person gets out of the way, so the relapsed one can hit bottom and get help.  Which is exactly what happened to me... .i hit bottom.  Started working my program, completed the 12 steps, got into service work.  I am a different person.  Lost 50 lbs.  Made my amends.  I feel light.  Unburdened.


Also, at the time we separated, i had every symptom of relapsed co dependent, was very toxic.
He was healthier than me. 

I guess because he gave me information, which he hadnt shared w me.  I dont know where this is going... .  i am willing to see how this plays out.

Have read that co d and BPD are likely combinations.  Also, each can get healthier.
Thats key for me.

I really dont have any idea or expectations on this r/s.  Am okay being in the space of i dont know what i dont know.  (The unknown)

[BeagleGirl]

Juju,
I guess my concern is that you not look at this as just a 2 month period of your healthiness and readiness being evaluated.  I would feel more comfortable if I heard you planning to do your own evaluation of his healthiness and readiness during this time.  I would also feel more comfortable if there was a plan in place for exiting any further entanglements that might make it easier for either of you to "overlook"  .  I'd also like to know how the two of you plan to do the evaluations.  Will you be spending time together during the 2 months or is it a "If you don't bug me with questions and are still waiting for me at the end of 2 months and I still want you, we'll get back together."  That's an exaggeration, but not far off what it sounds like to me.

Obviously this isn't about making me or anyone else feel more comfortable with your decision.  I think it helps me to be challenged by my friends who I know will stick by me whatever I decide, but know I will be more secure in that decision if I've actively made it.  They also know that I have a tendency to take responsibility for a bit more of my share of the relationship, and I kinda feel like you may struggle with the same tendency.  Sometimes I need them to remind me that the relationship breakdown was a two way street and rebuilding it would also need to be a two way street.

BG

[juju2]

Bg,

There is nothing implied.

No quid pro quo.

I really have no idea what is going on.

It will be.

I didnt even ask him "why", what makes any difference.?  What does two more months mean?
Idk and its done.

The only person i am looking at is myself.

I am happy that i have turned my will and my life over to my Higher Power.
I dont have to know.

[Cat Familiar]

Juju, I'm not very familiar with your story, but what I've picked up seems to be this:

You were together for a number of years, during which time he had a propensity for chasing after other women, or at least flirting in your presence. You became stressed out by his behavior and it triggered some of your issues, which triggered his issues and ultimately he left and began a relationship with someone else. During the time you were together, you felt like a placeholder--that he was with you because he hadn't yet found someone he wanted to be with more than you.

Now, he's broken up with his current girlfriend and is contacting you, asking for an extended period of time to settle up with remaining possessions and possibly begin anew with you.

You have made lots of progress in dealing with your issues and are in a much better place. You realize what drove him away to some extent was that you asked a lot of questions and now you are OK with not doing that. So you'll just trust, feel your empowerment and believe that you will be guided by your higher power as far as what will happen with him in the future. You have chosen not to ask why he needed more time and are possibly considering getting back together with him, if that's what he wants.

I'm sure I'm getting things wrong, but is that about what's been going on with you?

If so, how do you feel about getting back together with him?

[juju2]

Yes Cat,

You have summed it up.

I am ok w what my Higher Power has.

This is my movie, i am the star.

If something develops, i am open.
I have seen growth in him.

There is a bible verse i always remembered:
Inside the chaos that is my life, the Lord's will be done."
its a lot easier to be inside God's will.

It makes "i dont know" o.k.