Concealing feelings out of fear

[mousemat]

Just came across this paragraph.  I could have written it myself (although not nearly as eloquently):

Sometimes people lie because the person requesting the truth makes the truth telling so aversive.
I want the truth, the person asking says, but if you tell me the truth, I will shame or judge or abandon you.
If you tell me the truth, I will deny your needs. If you tell me the truth, I will try to control you.
They want the truth, then punish the person for telling it.
Of course there are consequences to people’s behavior, but there are also consequences to creating an environment where it can’t come to light.

_{Source:  www.theatlantic.com/family/archive/2018/08/husband-texting-female-friend-coworker/567272}

I spend the last two years of my recent relationship feeling unable to speak openly about sex, shared housework, politics, almost anything really.  So much of what I said - after being hounded to say what was on my mind - was either met with instant outrage or would come up weeks/months later.

It locked sadness inside which I couldn't get out.  No wonder I cried so much after it ended - feeling don't go away through ignoring them, do they?

Do others have stories about being afraid/intimidated to speak up, while at the same time having 'more honesty' demanded of you?  Perhaps it'd help me to hear some.

[mama-wolf]

Hi mousemat,

This post instantly touched a nerve... .

Do others have stories about being afraid/intimidated to speak up, while at the same time having 'more honesty' demanded of you?

This seems to be at the core of a relationship with a pwBPD.  I spent years suppressing my opinions, my needs, my values.  All for the sake of avoiding an argument with my uBPDw, all subjugated to her needs and wants.  Because if I did stand my ground for something I preferred or wanted, it would either blow up in my face (with massive indignation and/or anger on her part), or it would come up again... .and again... .and again... .like Chinese water torture until I finally caved anyway and she got what she wanted.  All in the name of supposed “compromise.”

And the ‘more honesty’ part for me was a demand for more emotional intimacy and vulnerability.  In that environment?  Give her more ammunition to use against me and manipulate me with? No way.  It took me a long time to see just how much control my uBPDw had over every aspect of our lives... .over me.  But once I finally saw it, I couldn’t ignore it anymore. 

Once I finally established and stuck to healthy boundaries, she just couldn’t handle it.  Nothing got better, she resented me taking the space I needed to get myself healthy, and I eventually figured out how to get myself out of there.

But of course she expected me to be open and honest should I begin to have any serious thoughts about separation and divorce.  There was absolutely no way, in the environment she created, that I would ever give a hint about my realization that I needed to leave there marriage before I had done my research and gotten my ducks in a row to protect myself and my children.  Of course she resents this deeply now, and I’m suffering through all the aftermath, but it’s better to be here than where I was.

Great quote, and very accurate... .thanks for sharing!

mw

[Educated_Guess]

Do others have stories about being afraid/intimidated to speak up, while at the same time having 'more honesty' demanded of you?  Perhaps it'd help me to hear some.

Hi mousemat!  This quote is profound and matches my own experience in so many ways.  I have been sharing my own story on my two epic posts:

https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=328104.0
https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=328249.0

What I have shared so far is how is ow the denial of my thoughts and feelings led me to question myself and to try to cut myself off from my emotions, my truth, because it must be wrong.  I will be writing more in the future about how I started to trust my truth more and began to speak it more.  I got intense rages in response.

I think that there's two things that go on with the request for truth and the inevitable punishment you receive for telling it. 

First, I think BPD partners are constantly sending out radar signals to figure out where you are.  They need to know if you might be considering abandoning them because of the intense fear of being abandoned.  They want to leave before they get left so they are always looking for signs. 

Second, the rage you may get in response for telling the truth is a form of self protection.  pwBPD carry a tremendous amount of self contempt and hatred.  The contempt is so intense that they do not know how to deal with it directly.  So they create a false image of the self just to get by day to day.  This false image doesn't have the things they hate about themselves.

When you are doing your truth telling, you may stumble upon something that threatens the false image of the self. This may result with the pwBPD going into a narcissistic rage (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Narcissistic_rage_and_narcissistic_injury). 

This kind of rage is so much more intense than anger people normally express.  This is because they are not just angry at a thing that you did or said, you have dealt a blow to their sense of self and self worth.  If you've ever seen an animal fighting who has been wounded and fears for its life, the intensity of a narcissistic rage is something like that.  The immediate goal is to scare and intimidate you to get you to back off from whatever truth it is you have just stumbled on.

Hi mousemat,

And the ‘more honesty’ part for me was a demand for more emotional intimacy and vulnerability.  In that environment?  Give her more ammunition to use against me and manipulate me with? No way.  It took me a long time to see just how much control my uBPDw had over every aspect of our lives... .over me.  But once I finally saw it, I couldn’t ignore it anymore. 

Mama-Wolf, this was exactly my experience too.  I asked for more intimacy and tried to describe what that meant to me.  It was always made out to be that I was being unreasonable or that what I was asking for was something that just did not exist. Eventually I came to believe this was true.

Reading Gunderson's theory on the three levels of emotional functioning with BPD helped me to finally understand what was happening (https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=70884.0.htm).  I wanted genuine reciprocity when it came to emotions. I wanted to know what she felt, not just her parroting my own words back to me.  After reading Gunderson's theory, I realized that this was something that she was not capable of.  When she was telling me that the emotional intimacy I was looking for didn't exist, it is because really didn't exist within her.

Good for you for learning how to set healthy boundaries.  It is something I wished I had learned to do earlier but the lessons come when they do.

[Starfire]

Yes, yes, yes.

And not just concealing feelings but also insignificant details about everyday life because those insignificant details became HUGE to the BPD.  For instance, it never occurred to me to bring up that I sometimes eat my lunch at the office with coworkers.  Once in casual conversation, I said something about it, and my ex immediately jumped on that and forever more that was a sign that I was a liar and a cheat because I ate food in the same vicinity at the same time as male coworkers.  Then everyday I went to my office it was "I want the truth about what you're doing at work!"

[mama-wolf]

Mama-Wolf, this was exactly my experience too.  I asked for more intimacy and tried to describe what that meant to me.  It was always made out to be that I was being unreasonable or that what I was asking for was something that just did not exist. Eventually I came to believe this was true.

I should clarify that she was demanding more emotional intimacy and vulnerability from me.  And I just couldn't give it.  Setting aside my own issues with being emotionally avoidant, which I'm working on... .there was just no way I could open myself up to her even more and allow her that much more ammunition to work with.  That much more opportunity to control and manipulate me based on her judgement of the value (or lack thereof) she found in my needs and my feelings.

But Educated_Guess, what you say still applies.  It's just that my stbx was just never a safe place/safe person for me to share and experience that intimacy with.  She is incapable of that kind of reciprocity... .or at lest, she was incapable of it with me.

And not just concealing feelings but also insignificant details about everyday life because those insignificant details became HUGE to the BPD.

Exactly, Starfire.   We end up having to compartmentalize too much of our lives and our true selves, to the point where we can even lose touch with who we truly are.  I know I did.

mw

[Educated_Guess]

I should clarify that she was demanding more emotional intimacy and vulnerability from me.  And I just couldn't give it.  Setting aside my own issues with being emotionally avoidant, which I'm working on... .there was just no way I could open myself up to her even more and allow her that much more ammunition to work with.  That much more opportunity to control and manipulate me based on her judgement of the value (or lack thereof) she found in my needs and my feelings.

Mama-Wolf, thanks for clarifying that.  In my case, my ex was a BPD waif so I didn't see how the intimacy/vulnerability I shared with her would be used against me until the end.  She stockpiled all that ammunition and used it at once, then it was, like, BOOM.

I can't imagine how difficult your experience was, to have that constant knowledge that what you share of yourself would be weaponized against you.  Intimacy is vital in a relationship but you can't really do that if the trust isn't there. It sounds like she violated your trust often. 

I'm sorry that you went through that.  Does it still bother you?  How has it affected you ability to trust others?  (if you don't mind me asking... .)

[mama-wolf]

Intimacy is vital in a relationship but you can't really do that if the trust isn't there. It sounds like she violated your trust often. 

I'm sorry that you went through that.  Does it still bother you?  How has it affected you ability to trust others?  (if you don't mind me asking... .)

It absolutely still bothers me and I'm sure it's at the base of what I struggle with these days.  I'm just starting to work through things in earnest with my T, so I'm not sure what that road is going to look like.  I wouldn't have said before going through all of this that I had trust issues, but at this point trusting others is definitely a hang-up for me... .truly trusting them with any kind of vulnerability on my part.

Externally, I actually (still) consider my stbx a trustworthy person, as it relates to her professional life (ethics are a big deal to her in that way), as it relates to her wanting to be a good parent.  It's the internal breakdown that took me a very, very long time to recognize and realize its impact on me.  The breakdown between intending to do something and even saying she would, but then not following through... .on even the most basic things like helping wash dishes more often, but also bigger things like changing spending habits or drinking less, or taking better care of herself.  The breakdown between seeing, hearing, and discussing what's important to me as a partner, but being absolutely unable to give that any priority... .all that mattered was what she needed, wanted, and expected for herself and our life together.  Acquiescing to any of my needs or wants was done only to generate a debt that she could call upon later in service to her own needs ("you got to do x, so now I should get to do y").  Otherwise, I was left feeling like I had to build some kind of business case to justify anything I needed or wanted to do.

She even said to me once last year that she wanted to enable me to be my "authentic self."  I almost laughed out loud, because I knew in that moment that she had no idea who my authentic self was.  Then I think I almost cried, because I finally realized that I didn't either anymore.

mw

[Educated_Guess]

She even said to me once last year that she wanted to enable me to be my "authentic self."  I almost laughed out loud, because I knew in that moment that she had no idea who my authentic self was.  Then I think I almost cried, because I finally realized that I didn't either anymore.

mw

Mama-Wolf, thanks for responding.  This hits me right in the feels.  I’m sorry that you had to go through that but glad you are able to work on it now with your T.  Blessings to you!

[SerendipityChild]

Do others have stories about being afraid/intimidated to speak up, while at the same time having 'more honesty' demanded of you?  Perhaps it'd help me to hear some.

I had that everyday with my ex. He would ask for my honest opinion and when I respond truthfully he would bash me for it. Most of the time I'd just kept my mouth shut. It drove me into depression which I am currently medicating for.

[mousemat]

In that environment?  Give her more ammunition to use against me and manipulate me with?  No way.

I laughed out loud when I read this.  It's a perfect response to the situation.  Wish I'd had that insight far earlier.

I had that everyday with my ex. He would ask for my honest opinion and when I respond truthfully he would bash me for it.

That's awful.  I'm so sorry you had to go through that.

[mousemat]

BTW, I'd recommend Lori Gottlieb's psychology column for anyone as another useful source of info.  There's a link in my OP.  I find most of what she writes to have something I can reflect on, and I love her calm & compassionate tone.  She'd make a great "wise aunt".

I once wrote to her about something my (now ex) partner was doing, and she published a response:
_{www.theatlantic.com/family/archive/2018/04/dear-therapist-my-partner-is-super-judgmental-of-my-friends/558815}

But I particularly liked that she also emailed me and said "you really should read up about something called 'BPD', you'll find a lot of answers".  Yes indeed!

[Woodchuck]

Just came across this paragraph.  I could have written it myself (although not nearly as eloquently):

I spend the last two years of my recent relationship feeling unable to speak openly about sex, shared housework, politics, almost anything really.  So much of what I said - after being hounded to say what was on my mind - was either met with instant outrage or would come up weeks/months later.

It locked sadness inside which I couldn't get out.  No wonder I cried so much after it ended - feeling don't go away through ignoring them, do they?

Do others have stories about being afraid/intimidated to speak up, while at the same time having 'more honesty' demanded of you?  Perhaps it'd help me to hear some.

I have dealt with this in my relationship for many years, from housework to sex and everything in between.  I will get asked what my opinion is or what I want and then get devalued.  I refuse to talk about politics anymore.  I have a great deal of fear/anxiety during sex most times, especially when I am asked what I want because I know if I answer, I will be told no most likely and she knows full well what the possible answers are.  I get asked about different things regarding the children and then when I give my opinion, it doesn't matter and later she will tell me that she doesn't care what I think or anyone else thinks.  It is a really messed up mind game and I am still trying to figure out how to deal with it and communicate in response to the 'truth demands' in a healthy way.

WC