Is it possible to become like my pwBPD?

[Frankee]

He's telling me I am turning into him.  The anger, shifting my old problems to like ones he has.  That him going to therapy is helping him realize that he's not to blame for everything, that he's starting to see a pattern.  He wakes up fine and as soon as he talks to us, he gets in a bad mood.  How anytime he asks us to do stuff, we screw it up somehow.  How I am different, I am not acting like the woman he married (which was only 6 months ago). How he's doing his part and staying calm, counting, not yelling.  How him going to therapy might be my down fall, him realizing I will never change blah blah.  How it will never change.

I am sitting here, thinking really hard about why.  He is getting better and working on things.  Why do I feel such distance from him?  Why do I still have those old feelings of not being able to talk to him?  Why do I still feel like I can't trust to tell him about "not good" stuff.  Part of me feels crushed.  He's becoming a better person and I am still struggling to feel the love I use to have.

I set up an appointment with my individual counselor.  I need to talk to someone about this that has a fresh set of ears.  I am worried I am getting to my point where I really have given up and all those years have finally caught up with me.  Almost feels like I have been pushed so far by him that even the slightest emotional deregulation now causes me to just snap.

[Cat Familiar]

To answer the question you pose in your title, we call it "picking up BPD fleas." Yes, being around them and their behaviors, we can start doing similar behaviors ourselves. The difference is that they generate those behaviors and we mirror them. So in another context, we wouldn't do those things, but around them, yes, we can behave like them.

I hear blaming in what he's telling you--that you are "turning into him". And he's looking to shift the blame off himself. Yes, of course it takes two to tango--one partner is not 100% responsible for all the issues in the relationship.

The next sentence about how he "wakes up fine and as soon as he talks to us, he gets in a bad mood." Blame, blame, blame. It's his mood to control, not yours and your sons'.

There's also a threat--that therapy will be your downfall because you won't change.

Certainly he's making an effort to control his anger and acting out. That's great, but at the same time, he's doing a lot of blaming you for his issues.

You're hesitant to talk about things that in the past would set him off. Of course you are.    You've got a lot of history there. It's great that he's making progress, but you don't have a track record of him being able to manage hearing things that make him uncomfortable, so it totally makes sense that you're reluctant to talk about that kind of stuff.

Great that you're seeking individual counseling.    You've been through so much in the last few years.    You're at the point where you're fed up with childish behavior from the man you married. It is possible that you will be able to get past this and renew the love you once felt for him. And at the same time, it's also possible that there's been too much water under the bridge. Much will depend upon him being the man he claims he wants to be: responsible, even tempered, kind to you and the boys, accountable for his own mistakes, and appreciative of all that you do to make his life better.

[Ltahoe]

This really strikes me, in recently rereading “stop care taking the borderline/narcissist” it was mentioned that when a caretaker acts out they can feel that they’re like the BPD/NPD. However the caretakers outbursts are usually far and inbetween, and followed by feelings of guilt. I thought to myself this is funny because sometimes I feel that I feel like the BPD, am I crazy too. I think being in the emotional roller coaster and holding things in since we're always walking on eggshells can cause us to be erratic sometimes too.

[Red5]

... .it was mentioned that when a caretaker acts out they can feel that they’re like the BPD/NPD. However the caretakers outbursts are usually far and in between, and followed by feelings of guilt.

It has been my own personal observation that when I (the Non) comes unglued, finally, after "putting up with", or being pushed too far... .I think that my "release", or behaviors... .losing it finally, .actually terrifies my u/BPDw.

She may NOT show it outwardly, as in she may seem indignant, or even more angry... but under that mask she wears, she is scared to death... .that I might leave, or say I'm leaving (unsaid threat of) due to putting up with her BPD'ism's too long... .hmmm ?

Does this make sense?

I think that the pw/BPD actually depends on the non in the r/s to "keep it together" at all times, provide home, protection & security, .even when they, pw/BPD are "in our grill", .and when the Non slips, and lets go, .it triggers the pw/BPD, as all aspects of order, and perceived normality is instantly gone.

In trigger, I mean... .like when a child at home, whom depends on their parent(s) to take care of everything, and then that parent maybe gets drunk, or gets injured, or appears to no longer be in control... .to the effect that then the protection/safty of the home is rendered ineffective, and then the child is in danger... .this supports my own thoughts, that BPD is trauma based, inner (injured) child stuff... .I've been reading a lot about this lately.

Just my own personal observation.

Thoughts?

Red5

[formflier]

He's telling me 

Hey... .pretty much anything you insert after this is problematic... .if you put much weight on it.

I'm wondering what it might be like for you if you cut in half the amount of "stuff" you listen to from him.  Is that possible?

Listen and have conversations when he is pleasant and excuse yourself when he is having a fit.

Thoughts?

FF

[Cat Familiar]

So how are you doing today, Frankee?

[Frankee]

I had typed out a response to the posts.  Unfortunately there was an outage and I lost everything I typed.  I will reply to the responses tomorrow what I wrote before.

I am doing better today.  I am a little stressed.  There are things scattered throughout the day that have been testing my patience.   I use to think I was such a patient person.

He sent me a text message couple days ago. 
Look, I ask a lot of you.  Sometimes I think it is too much. But I know it's not.  You're not weak, you're one of the strongest women I've ever known. You wouldn't be able to put up with me if you weren't.  And I am so thankful to have found someone as strong as you.  Because if you hadn't come into my life, I know I'd be doomed to be alone forever.  And I promise I'm going to keep doing what I need to do to make your life easier for you.  Because you do deserve a break.

Things like that text and the improvements I do see are what are saving this relationship.  I told him how much it means to me, that I love him, and I do see that he is trying. He isn't a stupid man.  He is aware of how he is handling things differently.  He even got upset the other day because he got confused over something.  I got it sorted out and he apologized for getting upset and knew I wasn't trying to do anything on purpose.  He even acknowledged that something I said that he construed as a lie was something I didn't do on purpose and he was trying to be more understanding.

As Cat had mentioned, once I see the kind of partner that I thought I was marrying, the emotional deregulation are a little tougher.  I know behaviors don't change over night and I am trying to be understanding and patient when he does go off rails a little.

I think my behavior change has had a factor.  I may come off as "cold" sometimes, but the therapist pointed out that maybe it is a defense mechanism.  Maybe, but I know I don't want to be like that.  It's not who I am.

[once removed]

well, ill put it this way: personality traits and behaviors arent contagious. for example, if you spend the night under a bridge with a homeless schizophrenic person, you arent likely to pick up or mirror any of their behaviors.

the issue, when this happens, is usually about protracted and long term conflict, resentment and distance in a relationship. its especially common in family units where, not unlike love languages where we tend to show people how we want to be loved by loving them that way, we also often show others the effect the behavior we dont like has on us by doing it back.

its probably not a bad thing that he realizes hes not entirely to blame for the conflict in your relationship (he also probably isnt telling you in the most constructive way, either). i know that for the longest time, my ex (and i) tended to put it all on her. later in the relationship, as she began to see it wasnt that simple, i couldnt adapt, tended to dismiss her point of view, and put it back on her, and our relationship, our trust, began to erode.

what stage would you say your relationship is in: https://bpdfamily.com/content/your-relationship-breaking-down

[formflier]

.  You're not weak, you're one of the strongest women I've ever known. You wouldn't be able to put up with me if you weren't.  And I am so thankful to have found someone as strong as you. 

There is a good follow up conversation that needs to happen here.

"Babe... thanks for praising my strength.  We've been through a lot together and we are both getting stronger.  Understand that my "strength" will mean that I "put up" with less of the behavior (might want to work on how you describe this) going forward.  I'm thankful you are working on your behavior, that shows strength.  We'll get through this together."


Something like that.

FF

[Cat Familiar]

I use to think I was such a patient person.

I know the feeling.    PwBPD are really good at finding one's triggers, and then using them.    It's made me strive to be more trigger-less. The interesting thing is that my husband has discovered triggers I didn't even know I had. Now that I know he knows about them, I'm kinda forearmed and they don't set me off the way they used to. For example: "self-absorbed".  Now I just agree--"Yep, that's true" and smile inwardly.

Things like that text and the improvements I do see are what are saving this relationship.  I told him how much it means to me, that I love him, and I do see that he is trying.

That's great!    And it's great that you told him how much it means to you to hear him say that. 

I think my behavior change has had a factor.  I may come off as "cold" sometimes, but the therapist pointed out that maybe it is a defense mechanism.  Maybe, but I know I don't want to be like that.  It's not who I am.

My husband sometimes accuses me of being "cold" but almost always that's when I'm being really analytical. I'm a "thinker" and he's a "feeler". He's very intelligent and highly logical, but when he's upset--all that goes out the window and he's totally into his feelings.

For me, when I'm upset, I get totally into thinking and logic. "How do I figure this out? What can I do? What is the best strategy here?" So it's a mismatch when we're both upset because I'm thinking and he's feeling.

[Frankee]

So in another context, we wouldn't do those things, but around them, yes, we can behave like them.

don't have a track record of him being able to manage hearing things that make him uncomfortable, so it totally makes sense that you're reluctant to talk about that kind of stuff.

He does have a unique way of pushing buttons that nobody else can.  It's like going crazy from dealing with crazy every day.  I have learned in the last week or so that he really can't hear "bad" irrelevant news.  No matter how well he is currently doing, he doesn't want to hear about the bumps I encounter when dealing with certain things.  Maybe when his track record isn't so smeared with $hit, I may feel more open.

I think that the pw/BPD actually depends on the non in the r/s to "keep it together" at all times, provide home, protection & security, ... .even when they, pw/BPD are "in our grill", ... .and when the Non slips, and lets go, ... .it triggers the pw/BPD, as all aspects of order, and perceived normality is instantly gone.

Yes.  In his case though I think he looks to me for what he wants to feel as having a woman that is strong enough to "put up" with him.  When I loose my cool and get angry, he throws the "go ahead and say it, you can't take it anymore, it's too hard, you're leaving, when things get to hard, you jump ship.  The whole "before" nonsense how I dealt with stuff was me letting him carry on with his craziness and staying quiet and "understanding".

its probably not a bad thing that he realizes hes not entirely to blame for the conflict in your relationship (he also probably isnt telling you in the most constructive way, either).

what stage would you say your relationship is in: https://bpdfamily.com/content/your-relationship-breaking-down

Definitely not constructive.  More of the you're turning into me, your working on your old problems, but picking up mine, what is wrong with you, what is going on, I'm changing and doing this and that while you're doing nothing.  Blah blah phht.

I would say I am in limbo somewhere between stage two and three.  The good thing is I recognize it and I do want to correct it.  More so for my own emotional and mental well being.  I do feel programmed to respond still in the either take defense or cold shoulder when I see he is starting to have an episode.  I think it is just from dealing with it for so long, I am struggling to change it.  I do feel contempt and resentment at times.  Angry for all the things he had done and said.  I think that is why individual therapy would help me.

My husband sometimes accuses me of being "cold" but almost always that's when I'm being really analytical. I'm a "thinker" and he's a "feeler". He's very intelligent and highly logical, but when he's upset--all that goes out the window and he's totally into his feelings.

For me, when I'm upset, I get totally into thinking and logic. "How do I figure this out? What can I do? What is the best strategy here?" So it's a mismatch when we're both upset because I'm thinking and he's feeling.

I am the same way.  When I get frustrated or upset, I go into thinking mode.  What can I do to fix this.  What xyz process can I do next to remedy it.  When he's all about, I don't care what the topic is, I feel upset and I want to be reassured that everything is okay.  What is something that has been chewing at me is that I am a very emotionally free person.  I just feel that around him, I have done the waking on eggshells, having to constantly analyze a situation, and everything else, that I don't feel comfortable right now to freely express emotions without a filter.  That is something I need to work on and tell myself that I have every right to express my emotions.

[AskingWhy]

Patricia Evans, author of, "Verbal Abuse," accurately describes the actions of the narcissist and borderline, but without any clinical comments.

I recall she states that it's easy to become abusive oneself after living with a pwBPD, especially when we are fed up with the BPD's actions and we start to voice our unhappiness.

I agree with Cat on pwBPD finding triggers of their partners.

[Cat Familiar]

My mother was an expert at finding my triggers, even decades after I'd moved out of her house.    It must be like fishing for them--they keep using different bait and see what we'll bite on--and then they remember that... .forever.

I have learned in the last week or so that he really can't hear "bad" irrelevant news.  No matter how well he is currently doing, he doesn't want to hear about the bumps I encounter when dealing with certain things.  

IDK whether this is relevant to what you're saying here, Frankee, but there's something about my husband's ability to hear me describe the details of my experience that seems to be similar to this. This is a pattern that I just recently identified too:

Usually when I'm talking with someone about something--let's say a plumbing repair that I did where I had problems with something that went awry and then I had to do it differently--usually the person I'm talking with can track the details of the conversation. Otherwise, why should I even talk with them about it? Sometimes it's just that I want to share something funny or surprising or frustrating or interesting (at least, to me).

But when I talk with my husband, I often get the sense that he is just waiting for me to be done talking. Often he won't say a word about anything I said, but he will abruptly change the subject, leaving me to feel kinda stupid for trying to share whatever I was attempting to share with him.  (A complete invalidation of me and what I'm trying to communicate.)

So I think why did this just happen? Sometimes it's about things that he doesn't care about or understand. OK, that makes sense. Other times it's not. But he's just totally dropped the conversational ball and I'm left standing there like an idiot. He doesn't do that with people he wants to impress or like him. He will feign interest in all sorts of things that I know he doesn't care about.

So why me? Well, he's comfortable with me and doesn't need to impress me. But even more than that, I think the gears are spinning in his mind and he's thinking about something he wants, beating himself up about something he thinks he didn't do adequately, or who knows? But my sense is that whatever is going on in his head is so much more compelling than listening to me and he did the "polite" thing of listening for as long as he could bear, and now he's back to thinking about his own thing.

Of course, because he's so reluctant to talk about his own internal processes, I will never know.

But Frankee, my feeling is that your husband doesn't want to know details that you want to share because somehow, having to listen to you share your experience, overwhelms him for some reason.

[Red5]

Cat writes: My mother was an expert at finding my triggers, even decades after I'd moved out of her house.

Wow!... .mine too !

Took me decades... .yes, decades to figure this out, .geez !

Red5

[Red5]

... .what stage would you say your relationship is in?

https://bpdfamily.com/content/your-relationship-breaking-down

Men in particular (but women too) become hardened by the chronicity of the ongoing conflict, and may react even more acutely during moments when conflict is most heated by becoming overwhelmed and "flooded"; a condition which is psychologically and emotionally quite painful. Over time, partners learn to expect that they are 'gridlocked'; that they cannot resolve their differences, and that any attempts at resolution will result in further overwhelm, hurt or disappointment

This morning, u/BPDw and I went at it again, I had retreated to the shop/shed mancave in the backyard, she cornered me, and we shouted a bit, then talked some, .I told her I was beyond tired, and that I was done with trying, and that I was just going to “GOLE”... .which means, “go on living everyday”... .I told her straight out, that I was done putting up with her behavior... .and that I would like her to let me be... .she agreed with me that “this is not working” ,

I feel that I am firmly aboard stage III, as described above.

... .not good,

I feel for you Frankee, this is tough stuff for sure,

Red5

[ateu]

I am feeling the same way. But it is only with him I would act this way. Like someone stated I think it is just because I am fed up of not Being able to reason with him like an adult.

After he has twisted everything around and gaslighted and blamed me enough and I can not get through to him with reason, I too can have enormous outburst with telling and Being cruel. I am just too frustrated and feel nothing else works to get through to him.

But I always regret it and feel bad about it, and I never act like this with anyone else. Then I think of all The Times he did The same to me and I feel bad about having said sorry for my behavoir. He never did.

Vicious circle really.

[Cat Familiar]

I am fed up of not Being able to reason with him like an adult.

Yes, it gets really exhausting when logic doesn't work and we feel that they are refusing to look at facts.   But adopting some of their behavioral patterns, while it can get their attention in the moment, feels awful later and we lose any moral high ground we might have had.

I've learned that at those times when the tools don't work to exit the conversation (and leave the room with some stated reason--"got to medicate the cat") and stay away for at least 15 to 20 minutes to allow his emotional response to get back to baseline. This has saved me from a lot of irritation.

[ateu]

Yes, it gets really exhausting when logic doesn't work and we feel that they are refusing to look at facts.   But adopting some of their behavioral patterns, while it can get their attention in the moment, feels awful later and we lose any moral high ground we might have had.

I've learned that at those times when the tools don't work to exit the conversation (and leave the room with some stated reason--"got to medicate the cat") and stay away for at least 15 to 20 minutes to allow his emotional response to get back to baseline. This has saved me from a lot of irritation.

I agree. And felt awful about the times. It just wasn't possible in a one bedroom apartment and as I tried to go to bed to get out of it, he started playing loud music and singing. When I asked him to put earphones he did, but all The time screaming "are you awake?", "I know you can hear me, i wont let you sleep!"

For example, then came one of my rages that probably woke my neighbours. It just gets too much, thats when i became like him.

Ashamed yes, and despairing

[Cat Familiar]

Yes, when you are trapped in a room with them and you have no options late at night, it's really uncomfortable.   

What he did was terribly cruel and you were out of options at the moment, so it's understandable that you snapped.     Do you have any thoughts about how you could do something different in the future?

[ateu]

Yes, when you are trapped in a room with them and you have no options late at night, it's really uncomfortable.   

What he did was terribly cruel and you were out of options at the moment, so it's understandable that you snapped.     Do you have any thoughts about how you could do something different in the future?

That time I first went out of bed, put my clothes on and said "if you won't shut up or stop attacking me I Will spend The night outside". He said "so go, its a free country, enjoy"

I was on my way out and saw it was raining, 4 a.m. Where should I go? And it was my apartment, mind you, not his. So I went back to bed. He continued to provoke me, and finally I went up screamed shut up and took a magazine and hit him in The head to wake him out of it ( he was going on an on how awful I was)

Then he "woke up" , and shut up. But still he reminds me of how he remember it as The Day he Will tell to everyone how i abuse him physically. (he was not even Hurt, I slapped him in The head with a newspaper). Physically violence is never ok, I know that. So I apologized and went to bed. Finally he was also too drunk to pass out snoring beside me. Not remembering anything he did, but long after he goes on about how I hit him that time and he Will never forget.

And yes I said I am sorry, I also dont think violence is ok, even with slap with a newspaper.

But what can I do different in those situations, I really dont know. Talking or escaping was not an option. Not ignoring.

I dont know, but i am left with the blame. And I say I am sorry, but never heard something similar from him.

What would you guys have done?

[Enabler]

I am/was a flee ridden mess. I won't deny it... .in fact I'd probably go so far as to say that my reactions to her behaviour was probably more extreme than her behaviour. Here's how I see it... .

Life with a borderline is like an emotional rollercoaster. Each low hurts a lot, it's emotionally painful. If you're conscious of the dynamic you learn to stay centred, see the behaviour for what it is, avoid adding fuel to the fire, close your ears to any personal attacks and find something different to think about until it passes... .but what if you haven't got the first clue about what is going on, what if you believe the personalised attacks? Well for me my solution was to get ahead of the conflict... .so, I would sense than conflict was brewing, this generated acute anxiety (physically and emotionally), as her dysregulation rose mine would rise faster to catch up and head her off... .kinda out-anger her... .proactive rage to frighten the beast back in her cage.

I summed it up pretty well in a letter I wrote her in 2007 when she left the second time (I believed her moods to be hormone related not childhood trauma and attachment related):

"I think I reached a point when I could no longer tollerate the years of boxing in , compromising, inconvienience, unfairness and lack of my own and your consideration from ME. I had realised that I was no longer myself and that by trying to be someone else I wasn't winning any prizes or reaping any rewards. I lost any respect I had for you. It dawned on me that someone who couldn't make their own decisions, who got stressed cooking and couldn't handel the pressure of a day in the office, someone who was never happy unless drunk and who couldn't hold an arguement without walking away and crying was not telling me how and what I should be doing, someone who always said I can't do it then had an opinion how I should have done it after the event... .You were going to live by my rules as yours were clearly rubbish and if this meant ramming it down your throat so be it... .and so started the agressive backlash about anything and everything I disagreed with, any objection you had with me... .why tollerate it, why pander to it, why agree with it, it didn't get me anywhere before. Shouting, screaming, lashing out... .that made you get the message and in my mind it made you think twice about kicking up a fuss, emotionally blackmailing me or trying to make me change again. See the rubbish thing about that was I was now part of the problem, in fact I was the problem. Rather than it just you being irrational demanding  and a bit physcho it was me who was the nutter, me losing control and most of all... .me who was now and @rsehole. None of your friends, my friends or family would put much weight on a hormonal girl being possessive, jealous or neurotic faced with a monster who terrorises his wife and makes her fear for her safety. Did I achieve anything? No, you didn't learn to cut me some slack, you didn't learn to respect me, my feelings understand that I want to go out have a laugh... .quite the opposite. You cut me slack because you stopped caring, stopped respecting me, stopped understanding how I was thinking, what I was thinking and couldn't understand what or why I was doing what I was doing. So then I had to drum into you that I wasn't an @rsehole... .disaster."

The problem was, she only saw one side of the equation because she was unable to self reflect on her own behaviour. She numbed out, sought love elsewhere and at the bottom of a bottle. Oh how things could have been different knowing about BPD!

[Frankee]

I really appreciate everyone's input.  I use to really believe I was going bat$hit crazy.  I'm only like that with him, even though he use to try to make believe it was with everyone.

Counseling has been a blessing in disguise and a curse (temporarily).  He likes to point out about how well he's doing while I'm.not changing, how him getting help to realize he's not fully to blame will be my downfall, how his behavior is 100% excused by what he's been through.  Mind you, this is when he is going off on a tailspin and going for the throat.  I know he doesn't really mean it and I know he does it to hurt me.  Doesn't make it right, but I know him well enough to know where it is coming from.

I get so frustrated.  I had a real eye opener a couple days ago.  He started in.  Got angry about the toddler making noise in the bathroom and it just went off from there.  I started off by discussing what was going on. I could feel myself getting frustrated and upset.  I could clearly see he going down his dysregulation path.  Part of me wanted to grab something and smack him over the head.  I didn't.  I took the higher road and positioned myself in the right frame of mind.

He tried hard to get a reaction.  Even one point grab a folding chair and threatened to throw it.  I looked at him calmly and asked him what he was doing.  I asked if he was trying to scare me and when he said yes, I calmly replied that I am not scared.  He went mean verbally.  Sulked in said folding chair and took some really nasty jabs.  Nothing worked. 

I started losing my cool and getting loud and abrasive and even called him a jerk.  He made a key comment that snapped me out of it.  He said, There it is... the anger, the resentment, you're almost there where you scream at me, tell me you can't take it anymore and that you are leaving.  I stopped and looked at him.  I walked up to him, looked him dead in the eye.  I said, I know what you are doing, it's not going to work, I love you very much, and I'm not going anywhere.  I hugged him and he just kept saying, we'll see about that.

We went to a friend's BBQ, everything was fine, and when we came home, we were okay.

I remember when I use to sit on the bathroom floor, crying so hard about how much my heart was hurting.  It's not easy.  I finally had to tell myself that I do not accept being talked to that way, I do not deserve to be treated this way, and I will not stand for it.  I still have to pick and choose how to react, but I think I proved to myself that I am capable of handling his dysregulations a little better.

[Frankee]

He continued to provoke me, and finally I went up screamed shut up and took a magazine and hit him in The head to wake him out of it ( he was going on an on how awful I was)

And yes I said I am sorry, I also dont think violence is ok, even with slap with a newspaper.

But what can I do different in those situations, I really dont know. Talking or escaping was not an option. Not ignoring.

I dont know, but i am left with the blame. And I say I am sorry, but never heard something similar from him.

What would you guys have done?

I think I have lost count of how many times I have been in this position.  One time we were parked outside our counselor's office (the irony here).  He pushed me so far that I started screaming at him and smacking him on the arm. Then he was like, look at you, physically abusing me when all I am doing is arguing with you.  What came to mind immediately was, that is nothing compared to what you've done.

I felt really upset with my behavior.  Upset he was able to push me to lashing out and pushing the blame onto me. 

One of the most important thing I have learned from being on here is, not to take it personal.  It is probably the hardest thing to do.

Are there certain things he says that provokes you?

I find when dealing with my bph, it takes some serious self discipline.  I do have my outburst and I still have my emotional reactions, like any human being would.  I just try to be more mindful of bringing myself back to center

There is really good articles on this website.  One I like is Wisemind.  https://bpdfamily.com/content/triggering-and-mindfulness-and-wise-mind

[Red5]

I think I have lost count of how many times I have been in this position. 

I felt really upset with my behavior.  Upset he was able to push me to lashing out and pushing the blame onto me. 

One of the most important thing I have learned from being on here is, not to take it personal.  It is probably the hardest thing to do.

I find when dealing with my bph, it takes some serious self discipline.  I do have my outburst and I still have my emotional reactions, like any human being would. 

After years pass, it starts to wear you down... ."not taking it personal" is very difficult, especially when it gets physical, .when things get thrown, crashed, destroyed... .that's personal no matter how you look at it.

The old saying is true, "sticks and stones",

And then when the Non has finally had enough, and reacts... .then we always feel quilt, and that's personal.

I've tried everyway under the sun to try to "not take it personal", .and to not enable, ramp up, and or feed it... .but seems pw/(udx)BPD always "figures out a way"... .and then its back to the think tank for me.

I've read volumes, watched years of videos, .you'd think I could figure out a way... .but the more I come to understand, the more I learn, .the farther away from her I drift it seems.

Its sad... .right now I just feel abject despondency, .like the h3ll with it... .for now anyway.

Its like holding her head up in a flood, and she's fighting me the whole time, .if I let her go, she'll get swept away in the flood, she's drowning... .and the longer I wait to "rescue " her, because I'm so damn tired of this... .the farther away she drifts... .and the farther away she drifts, the harder I'll have to swim against the current to bring her back (rescue so to speak)... .I'm just floating here, watching her be swept farther and farther away... .ugh,

... .tough stuff,

Red5

[Enabler]

Lucky you’re not a fella, not only would you be dealing with your own guilt and shame of the act but your whole community brandishing you a woman basher. It’s not the point and I know the frustration pwBPD generate with their behaviours... .but my oh my oh my it takes some willpower not to unleash hellfire

[Red5]

It’s not the point and I know the frustration pwBPD generate with their behaviours... .but my oh my oh my it takes some willpower not to unleash hellfire

... .willpower = disciplined indifference

... .disciplined indifference -> despondency

... .despondency -> anger

... .anger -> guilt

... .guilt -> willpower

here we go again... .

Red5

[Cat Familiar]

The gender inequality on the man's side is truly unfair. Add to that, boys grow up often getting into fights when younger (and sometimes when older), so there's muscle memory for responding like this.

A couple of years ago, I slugged my husband in the arm, much to my shame. He'd never laid a hand on me, but I had been repeatedly physically assaulted by my first husband. I still feel embarrassed about it. After a circular argument had grown so nonsensical, I had finally gotten to my last "I don't give a  " and next thing I knew, I'd hit him. So I truly have compassion for nons who finally lose it because I saw how easy it is to get to that point.

After having that experience and feeling "never again" I now am ultra sensitive to when things are starting to come unhinged and I exit the situation quickly, whether it's physically leaving the room or changing the subject. It's so much easier to do at the earliest signs of dysregulation rather than after it has become full blown. And from a physiological perspective, all the biochemistry linked to anger hasn't had a chance to fully circulate through the body, so it's much easier for him to calm down at that point.

[Frankee]

I definitely want to clear it up about the not taking personally.  I understand that sometimes it's just not possible.  I still take things personally.  Especially when he levels attacks that seem to hit me so personally, I feel he's trying to rip my heart out.  The difference I try to do is gently remind myself that I am not those things he says I am, just because he says it doesn't make it true, these are his issues, and I'm being gaslighted.

The gender inequality on the man's side is truly unfair.

So I truly have compassion for nons who finally lose it because I saw how easy it is to get to that point.

After having that experience and feeling "never again" I now am ultra sensitive to when things are starting to come unhinged. It's so much easier to do at the earliest signs of dysregulation rather than after it has become full blown. And from a physiological perspective, all the biochemistry linked to anger hasn't had a chance to fully circulate through the body, so it's much easier for him to calm down at that point.

I feel you on this cat.  I think I am getting bettet at identifying when he's starting to dysregulate.  I definitely understand when the nons reach the point where they snap.  I have been so unhinged with him before, I thought I should be stuffed in a padded room.  

After years pass, it starts to wear you down ... ."not taking it personal" is very difficult, especially when it gets physical, ... .when things get thrown, crashed, destroyed ... .that's personal no matter how you look at it.

I've tried everyway under the sun to try to "not take it personal", ... .and to not enable, ramp up, and or feed it ... .but seems pw/(udx)BPD always "figures out a way" ... .and then its back to the think tank for me.

Its sad ... .right now I just feel abject despondency, ... .like the h3ll with it ... .for now anyway.

Red5, I am so sorry to hear you are going through this.  I spent a long time feeling like no matter what I did, nothing worked.  I tried everything you did.  I felt like I was studying for a f#*&ing final exam with the amount of info I stuffed in my head about this.

I've had things of personally belongings smashed, I've seen holes punched in walls, a door destroyed, I've had him inches from my face, screaming at what a horrible person I am.  Spent countless hours crying behind closed doors so my kids wouldn't know.  Even felt so $hitty, once I contemplated hurting myself just to make the pain stop.  That's only scuffing the surface.

I've been in the same spot where I said f*# it, I'm done.  Maybe things don't always work out, but they aren't hopeless.  There is always a chance to build up if both parties are willing to make a conscious effort to change.

[Red5]

I've been in the same spot where I said f*# it, I'm done.  Maybe things don't always work out, but they aren't hopeless.  There is always a chance to build up if both parties are willing to make a conscious effort to change.

Tonight is day eight on the leather couch in the “office/Man cave”... .I even went and bought a nice $50. pillow yesterday... .the last big blow up was last week; Wednesday , her daughter and her H left early Sunday AM, they had been visiting for a week... .so far this week there has been no attempt by either of us to “make up”... .there was a short shouting match on Monday morning,

I have to say I am really just like F_it right now, this last big blow out actually got me to get the notion to make an appt and go as a T yesterday... .yeah it’s that bad this time... .it’s been sixteen years since I was in a T’s office... .

All I have been doing is taking care of my son, and going to work and coming home and making supper for me and him each night, .“gray rock” all week.

I have to say, as far as this marriage, her udx/BPD, and the events of last week, .and all this pent up anger I have over it all... .it’s “do not resuscitate” as far as any idea of “fixing it up” this time... .

I’m just Burnt Out... .

We have been married for over seven years now, both our second marriage...

And I am just wore out with her, it’s been almost nonstop conflict the entire time.

I’ve been doing a lot of reading today about all of this, and I have to say that from what I have experienced from her, and what I am coming more to understand about BPD... .it sure don’t bode well, as far as any future for us... .this marraige.

It’s after two am here and I’m wide awake ; (

Hang tough Frankee!

Red5

[Cat Familiar]

I definitely want to clear it up about the not taking personally.  I understand that sometimes it's just not possible.  I still take things personally.  Especially when he levels attacks that seem to hit me so personally, I feel he's trying to rip my heart out.  The difference I try to do is gently remind myself that I am not those things he says I am, just because he says it doesn't make it true, these are his issues, and I'm being gaslighted.

Yes, we’d have to be a robot not to take things personally that are meant to be taken personally. It’s really good that you are making a habit of reminding yourself that it isn’t true. 

Just like creating all new habits, there will be times when you don’t remember, but cut yourself a lot of slack and look at the big picture. You are making great progress and who you are now compared to who you were many months ago is a very empowered woman!

The trials by fire you’ve endured are a testament to your strength. Good work!

Cat