Exhausted mom seeking those that have been there for virtual hugs.

[DremNCWgrl]

Hi. I need help. I joined this board in 2015 after my daughter made her first suicide attempt. She was 15  and was placed in her first residential treatment center. They said she had BPD tendencies and suggested I do some research. A friend referred me to this site. My daughter spent almost 2 months in RTC and was then released to complete IOP. I did some research at the time but was naive enough to think she was fine, as they indicated that she would most likely grow out of it and it was common for adolescents to show BPD style symptoms. Which is why after joining this group, I never made a post.  Fast forward to now. My daughter is on her 3rd round of RTC and her case manager said that although they avoid diagnosing people with BPD until all other options have been exhausted because of the ramifications, she feels that is what we are dealing with and has asked that I actively prepare and educate myself. I went to the NAMI website, navigated to my county, and found no specific information about anything.  The resources that I've found in my home county are slim to none.  So here I am... .asking where to start, and hoping to find a way to navigate the now and the future.

Our objective is to better understand the struggles our child faces and to learn the skills to improve our relationship and provide a supportive environment and also improve on our own emotional responses, attitudes and effectiveness as a family leaders

[Feeling Better]

Hello DREMNCWGIRL,

 

Welcome finally and let me say how sorry I am to hear of what has brought you here.

I am sorry also to hear that resources in your home county are sadly lacking, how frustrating that must be. You have come to the right place here, as your good friend suggested. You will see articles listed under the headings of TOOLS and THE LESSONS, just take a look to the right   

Another good way to learn as well as to receive help and support is to read the threads posted here by other members and to participate in them. We are all here for you and we look forward to hearing more from you x 

[incadove]

Hi DREMNCWGIRL,

I'm glad you are here though sorry for the struggles you and dd must be going through!

I don't have much to add to what Feeling Better said, just that books have also been really helpful to me.  One I was just looking at that was recommended by another member but might not be on the lists yet, is

Mindfulness for BPD by Blaise Aguirre

https://wordery.com/mindfulness-for-borderline-personality-disorder-blaise-aguirre-9781608825653

Good luck on your journey 

[DremNCWgrl]

Thank you both for the response.  I'm trying to keep up but I'm feeling so overwhelmed. It's like I have years of catch up to do and it's a race against the clock. I have read Borderline Personality Disorder for Adolescents from the reading list and am starting Loving Someone with BPD by Shari Manning. I added Mindfulness (as mentioned by @Incadove) to my reading list. I've scanned the threads (there are so many!) looking for something that gives a suggested reading list that includes more current books. I'm going to keep going with the Foundation Reading list but I'd like to think that there is updated research and findings out there. Can anyone point me in that direction?

[wendydarling]

Hi DREMNCWGIRL

I'm so sorry you are overwhelmed and relate to how you feel as I did too when my now DD30 was diagnosed, in crisis and I started the journey to educate myself in 2015, build my understanding and learn the skills to help my DD's situation, I'm still learning with others here and I'm glad you've joined us. One thing I learnt this is no race, it's ok to work at a speed that works for you, small gentle steps helps, I've taken it slowly while working through. The books listed in the foundational reading under Lessons: What a parent can do, are current and relevant, when you say you are looking for up to date research and findings, do have anything specific in mind?

I'm glad you are reading Loving Someone with Borderline Personality Disorder as it is a favourite go to of mine, and many here, I'd love to hear if you find it helpful, Manning understands what it means to care deeply about a loved one suffering BPD and offers practical tools to help in the day to struggles.

What kind of treatment has your daughter been receiving in the RTC's, IOP?

Here's a big virtual hug from me,   I'm glad you've joined us, the world class resources here and wonderful support of parents helped me cope with my DD's crisis back in 2015/16, as you'll see I'm in the UK, we've no equivalent bpdfamily in the UK.

We are here walking with you.

WDx  

[DremNCWgrl]

What kind of treatment has your daughter been receiving in the RTC's, IOP?

Thank you for replying Wendydarling!  I was asking about the resources because I've had more than one therapist (and/or pdocs?) ask me what I knew about BPD and then tell me "that's not really true" when I've summarized info from Borderline Personality Disorder for Adolescents. But no one wants to take the time to provide more information. That is just one of the frustrating parts. I'm a smart woman, I don't need to be talked to like a 1st grader. If I'm wrong, ok, but tell me what's right! Her doctors and therapists say she has BPD but don't want to officially diagnose it because it will "label" her.  Well... .if she does, then wouldn't it help to know that right off? Instead, every time she enters treatment, they start from scratch and the progression is like a checklist at this point.  MDD, then add Panic Disorder, then add BPD "rule out".  Which I'm told means that they haven't ruled out BPD, which they said is their way of saying it without labeling her.  I know I'm talking in circles but it's because I feel stuck in this loop.  No one wants to believe she has it... .until they've spent 2 weeks with her. Then they say, well... .she's so young (19), then they hear the escalated pattern that emerged when she was 14. Now that I'm learning the early similarities/signs, she reads almost like a checklist to back to infancy.  But I digress.  I've rambled WAY off topic. 
To answer your actual question... .she's received crisis care, RTC, PHP, and IOP, as well as basic therapy and pdoc visits. The more recent ones are DBT and CBT based programs. She's currently in week 2 of 4 week RTC program but they aren't keeping me as informed of her progress as previous places. I guess that's to be expected though as she gets older.

[wendydarling]

DremNCgirl

Blimey, I'm sorry, that's really unhelpful and unfair, a Dr asking you and then telling you, your understanding of this most complex of mental disorders is wrong. It's no wonder you are cautious and we are glad you are here in this safe place where we can learn, our situation is unique as are our kids and we share, recognise similarities and solutions.

As we know there is still reluctance in diagnosing teens and I'm sorry you've been through the relentless check list. Sounds very similar to when my DD30 was seeking help for herself when she was in crisis 2015. It was so distressing for her to have to go through it again and again with so many strangers. She needed surety, she needed the diagnosis, it was like a merry go round. Dizzy stuff.

Yes, you'll likely receive less formal feedback as your DD is an adult, like me none   and you may receive more feedback from your DD as a result, I did, I sat back and waited for her to come forth and it was helpful for her and me.

The diagnosis helped my DD to engage in treatment, the label set her forth to help destigmatise and support fellow sufferers.

I'm wondering as you are in the US a diagnosis is unhelpful in gaining care under insurance system you have. We don't have that problem in the UK, our problem is the lack of mental health services available that we pay for through our tax. It's a time bomb.

You and your daughter have been through the wringer, a lot. How do you think she's coping at this time, after all she's been through? Is she making small steps forward?

Hope

WDx  

[DremNCWgrl]

DremNCgirl
You and your daughter have been through the wringer, a lot. How do you think she's coping at this time, after all she's been through? Is she making small steps forward?

Hope

WDx 

I wish I knew.   I haven't heard from her caseworker or her this week.  It's very nerve-racking.  She wasn't making progress before I dropped her off at this RTC. In fact, she had escalated.  I talked to her caseworker (where I filled her in on all the past behaviors and events that led up to this admission) last week and I had a 15 minute supervised call with dd19 last week. It was all fluff so no indicator there. I'm trying to stay busy with work and reading everything I can so that I don't imagine the worst.

[DremNCWgrl]

 

dBPDdd19 finally called me last night!  She talked to me for a whole 3 minutes.  *sigh*  All fluff and a request to bring her a list of things.  I asked her how she was doing and she said she thinks she has a stomach bug. So I got more specific and asked her how treatment was going. She said it was fine and that she's not learning anything she didn't already know.  Then she said her therapist would be calling me today to set up a family session.  That was pretty much the whole conversation.
My biggest question right now is - What should I be sure to ask the therapist?  I have so many I don't know where to start.  Is she progressing? Is she participating? Is she being honest? If they aren't talking to me then how do they know what she's telling them isn't more lies? If she doesn't think she's learned anything new then how is she going to be ready to come home in 2 weeks?  Will she really come home in 2 weeks? If she does, how am I supposed to keep her from hurting herself again? How can I push her to be more self sufficient without pushing her away? Yesterday I was anxious because I hadn't heard anything in a week.  Now I'm anxious because I do NOT feel prepared for her to come home. Especially if nothing has changed. 

[Feeling Better]

Hi there DremNCWgrl

Have you arranged your family session with the therapist now?

You’ve got some good questions lined up. I used to write things down or make a note or voice memo on my phone as things came into my head for when I saw my T. I easily forget things so it was invaluable for me to do that.

One thing that crossed my mind for when you are in the family session, maybe ask your daughter what she wants/needs from you as her mother. Any thoughts on that?

I understand your anxiety, I used to be the same, I could feel my anxiety levels rising if I’d not heard from my son and then I’d find something else to worry about once I had heard from him. It’s not a very healthy state to be in. I finally realised that I needed help which brought me here and also led me to therapy.

Keep posting and sharing DremNCWgrl x 

[wendydarling]

Hi DremNCgirl

So I got more specific and asked her how treatment was going. She said it was fine and that she's not learning anything she didn't already know.  

With this being your DD's third RTC, I'm guessing they are taking her through again, like a refresher, so for her to say she's not learning anything she didn't already know. From my experience the success is applying their learning, perhaps that is where she is.

My biggest question right now is - What should I be sure to ask the therapist?  I have so many I don't know where to start.  Is she progressing? Is she participating? Is she being honest? If they aren't talking to me then how do they know what she's telling them isn't more lies? If she doesn't think she's learned anything new then how is she going to be ready to come home in 2 weeks?  Will she really come home in 2 weeks? If she does, how am I supposed to keep her from hurting herself again? How can I push her to be more self sufficient without pushing her away? Yesterday I was anxious because I hadn't heard anything in a week.  Now I'm anxious because I do NOT feel prepared for her to come home. Especially if nothing has changed.  

I think you've likely spoken with the therapist, how did it go? That's a great idea to take  notebook Feeling Better . I'm wondering what were the circumstances of your DD's recent admission, you say she hurt herself ~ sharing what's been happening recently may give us a better picture of what you are dealing with right now and how parents can support you. I'm guessing they are trying to stabilise your DD at this point? I can understand your DD saying she's learning nothing new, and may be about her arriving at the point of applying her learning when she feels able.

I totally get you and I'm sorry the uncertainty of everything causing you anxiety.   We have to self care and you are by being here with us. We find solutions here to our situation in our own good time.

Let me share a bit about me, my DD's diagnosis, BPD - co-morbid, alcohol addiction, self harm, bipolar, depression, anxiety, psychosis, eating disorder …...

Change happened for us slowly, very slowly, excruciatingly slowly, small gentle steps 'sigh'. It makes sense in hindsight there is no quick fix to our children turning this around, they need space and time. Recovery for us was not linear, it was a step forward, step back, two steps forward, step back, step forward, two steps forwards... .… quite often I could not see the great progress DD was making as it was internal work to her, or a change in her meds... .My 30DD attended weekly DBT for 14 months, she's 12 months out and continues to do well, she is however reaching out for a DBT refresher to stay connected, keep her skills fresh and looking to find a therapist experience in BPD.

Hope.

How are you feeling today  

WDx

Our objective is to better understand the struggles our child faces and to learn the skills to improve our relationship and provide a supportive environment and also improve on our own emotional responses, attitudes and effectiveness as a family leaders

[DremNCWgrl]

Learning Better,
Yes, my notes are the only thing that keep me sane. I get so overwhelmed that I can't remember anything so I try to always write everything down.  My question was centered more around what I should be asking that I don't know to ask. What knowledge can I take from the experiences of everyone here to ask better questions sooner.

I did talk to her caseworker on Thursday (2 days ago) although her therapist never called me. So as of yet, the family session has not been scheduled. Her cw said that DD19 is showing her true colors. She is trying to manipulate them, being disrespectful, not following the rules, sleeping during group sessions. She said it's good though because it shows them what DD19 is like at home so they can focus in on those specific behaviors.

And then they called me this morning.  *sigh*  DD19 is suicidal again so they are going to step her treatment back up and admit her back to a psych hospital. They said she has the plan and the means, but hadn't acted on it yet.  The RTC she is in is a 5 hour drive from me. Her usual psych hospital is 3 hours from there (my direction). Because of that, they are going to try to get her admitted to a hospital closer to them, that they work with a lot and trust. I will hopefully know if a few hours. They have to make sure they have a bed, review DD19's file, and get insurance approval. If they can't get her in Psych Hosp 2 (near them), I'll need to go pick her up and take her back to Psych Hosp 1 (2 hours south of me, 3 hours north of them).

You asked for more specifics about her recent admission.  Back in April she overdosed on Tylenol. I didn't know it at the time but I've since learned that is the most dangerous OTC drug there is. I heard her throwing up violently so I went to check on her and saw half digested pills in the toilet. This was the 2nd time she's tried to overdose although the time before she didn't take enough to really hurt herself. Just scare us all. We took her to the ER where after checking her labs, the doctor said her levels were so toxic that had we not brought her in, she would have gone into liver failure and died. Once they got her physically stable, they released her to me with the agreement I would take her to the Psych Hosp 1. She spent about a week there and then transferred to a RTC where she spent 2 months residential and 1 month PHP. They wanted to keep her longer but they raised their rent and I could no longer afford the housing. So we brought her home for IOP. She had been going for about a month and then out of the blue (to me), in the middle of a family session, she admitted she had cut the night before and had a suicide plan, and a back up plan, and a back up to that plan. She also told me where I could find her suicide notes. So, back to the psych hospital she went. She was there for a week and a half and then she transferred to the RTC she is currently in. The RTC she was at last time no longer has residential care, only PHP, so that wasn't an option. Although I think that may have been a blessing because I feel like this RTC isn't letting her get away with as much because they have more "work" time and less free time.

So there's my update. Now I'm just waiting to hear what the next steps are.

[Feeling Better]

Hi DremNCWgrl

How are things now?

I am so sorry to hear that your daughter got suicidal again.

Reading what you’ve posted gives us a really good idea of what you and your daughter have been going through, you’ve certainly had a lot to deal with and my heart goes out to you 

I hope that you are feeling able to keep us updated x 

[DremNCWgrl]

DD19 called me this morning to let me know she checked herself out of the hospital and had a friend pick her up. She told me she plans to live with this friend (5 hours away from me) and is not going back to treatment (she doesn't think she needs it anymore) and is not coming home.  I'm angry, worried, frustrated, and not entirely surprised. From what I've read on here, this is to be expected. I've had a feeling for a while that with her it won't be *IF* she commits suicide, it will be *when*.  This just makes me feel that even more. I'm not sure I have any tears left.

[wendydarling]

DremNCWgrl

We are right here with you   that line of being an adult our responsibility, the dynamics, how we respond, change our approach as you say you've read here.

The if and when you share, I understand your deep pain and how scared you are, your tears have run dry.

I needed immediate relief to cope, feel some personal relief, this was my starting point, I hope it is helpful to you too? I read Tara Brach.

1.06 Radical Acceptance for Family Members (DBT skill)

Do you know the friend your DD is staying with?

Sharing hope and love with you.

WDx

[Feeling Better]

Hi DremNCWgrl

I’m so sorry to hear that your DD19 has checked herself out of hospital and would rather stay with a friend than come home to you, you have every right to feel angry, worried and frustrated. If only these kids realised what they put us parents through. You sound absolutely exhausted, all cried out. I hope you manage to find some relief, some peace.

Have you heard from your daughter since your previous post? x 

[DremNCWgrl]

Hi everyone. Sorry I haven't been online. I've been trying to keep myself busy at work and around the house to avoid doing too much thinking.  I've heard from DD19 a couple times via texts from her friend's phone. Nothing very informational. She asked me to send her phone to her and I advised her that if she was unwilling to stay in treatment, I was unwilling to pay for her phone service. She tried to argue (she needed it to get a job etc) but I stuck to the boundary I had presented. I did turn off her phone service. She then asked me to mail her actual phone to her (she can use via wifi or get her own service). I told her that as soon as she put enough money in her account (I have access) to cover postage, I would do so.  She was angry but I again stuck to my guns. She put that money in today so I'll stick to my end and mail it tomorrow. I also let her know that she needed to apply for state medical by the end of the year because our insurance is changing and she will be dropped. I think this will be best for her in the long run because she won't be able to afford our co-pays on her own and I'm unwilling to continue to pay for her expenses if she is unwilling to be in treatment. Before I packaged up her phone I did give in to temptation and look at her social media messages. I'm sure she doesn't know I could access them.  I wish I was surprised by what I saw. She's gotten a new tattoo, is drinking, smoking a lot of pot, and sleeping with random boys. I'm working with my therapist to determine what my husband and I will do when she becomes pregnant. I don't really want to start over raising a child but DD19 is NOT capable of taking care of herself, let alone a baby.  My grandparents rescued and raised me so I do feel some obligation to do just that. I don't know where I will land.

[DremNCWgrl]

It's like you guys have ESP or something. I got an email to notify me that there was a new message for me and before I could finish work and reply, I got a call from DD19.  Of course everything has fallen apart at her friends house and she is upset and emotional and says she just wants to die because she knows she can't come home... .nothing you guys haven't heard before. BUT, I managed to stay firm and told her that she is right that she cannot come home right now but that the reason is not because she is stupid, it's because she needs to be in treatment. She agreed she would go back to treatment. However, she's in a different county and I have no idea where she's supposed to go there.  I called the admissions counselor at the treatment center she left and they have no beds open at the moment. I was able to get my sister in law to go pick her up so she's not hanging out on the street tonight but I'm still trying to figure out where she needs to go until then.

[wendydarling]

Oh, strange - I thought I'd posted a message here on your thread last night, though it's not here, looks like I lost it. 

This is good news, things are moving for you, though appreciate the amount of work you have in finding a placement for her. Your sister in law is kind to take your daughter in. Sometimes being in someone else's space can help calm and provide structure. Are they close? Do you think your daughter can stay there till a place becomes available.

WDx

[DremNCWgrl]

Good morning! After a 5 hour roller coaster last night, it's a great morning!   Sister In Law picked up DD19 and took her to get some dinner while we tried to figure out the next steps.  While we waited to find out if AK (her RTC) had an open bed and was willing to take her back, we arranged for my DD23 to go get DD19 (45 minute drive south) and take her to the county psych hospital (60 minutes northwest). AK called me back to suggest she call OV to see if they had any openings. It would be a 4 hour bus ride but I wanted to make sure DD19 understood that we weren't going to drop everything to keep rescuing her. I told her that if she would call OV and get herself admitted, I would send her money for the bus to get there from the county hospital. BUT, the powers that be were smiling on us because around 8pm the admissions coordinator from OV called her back.  OV is a psychiatric inpatient hospital that we had tried to get her in before. She was declined because at that time they felt she was actually suicidal (in imminent danger) and they are only set up to deal with suicidal ideation. Their program is usually about 10 days. What's awesome is that they partner with AK and the clinical director at AK said that if DD19 could get into OV, they would have a bed for her to transfer to when she was ready to step down!  And the icing on top... .they went and picked her up! A 2 hour drive at 9:30 at night! 

Oh yeah, and she thinks she's pregnant (which I completely expected to happen) but I told her we needed to cross one bridge at a time. For today, I'm going to celebrate her going back to treatment without me having to make the 5 hour drive to rescue her!

[wendydarling]

Good morning! 

Wow, that's wonderful news, what a relief - you sure deserve everything falling into place   It's great to hear AK called you back and offered you advice and OV picked her up, this is exactly to type of care and support us parents and children need when things go south, I'm so glad they were there for you when you needed them most.

Oh yes, celebrate and breathe, we are right here with you   

WDx

Our objective is to better understand the struggles our child faces and to learn the skills to improve our relationship and provide a supportive environment and also improve on our own emotional responses, attitudes and effectiveness as a family leaders

[DremNCWgrl]

****SPLAT****

That was the sound of my hopes hitting the floor.  DD19 just texted to tell me she's "not ready to get better" and left treatment again.
 

[wendydarling]

Yikes! Hang on, we've got you, hold on tight! 

Where has she gone to?

WDx

[wendydarling]

DremNCWgrl

Thinking of you. How are you?

WDx

[Tinkerbelle]

Hi,
I am so concerned for both you and your daughter.My daughter is much like yours.I  am praying she will get back into treatment and for you to get some peace, knowing she is getting the care she needs.
Tinkerbelle

[DremNCWgrl]

 
Sorry that I've been MIA. Truly trying to take it one day at a time. dd19 spent several weeks at a friends house doing God knows what with God knows who.  Thankfully, the person she was staying with has her own mountain of problems (I don't know what they are) and dd19 realized she couldn't deal with her and manage her own problems. So, she reached out asking to come home. I reminded her that one of the boundaries we set was that she couldn't come home until she COMPLETES another round of treatment.  The RTC she was in last did not have an open bed but she contacted the crisis hospital near them and completed their admissions process.  I happened to be near her that weekend because I had driven down for a friend's funeral.  So on my way home, I picked her up and drove her to OV. She spent almost a week there and then transferred to CP, an RTC in San Diego.  Which is like 8 hours away *sigh*.  BUT... .she's been there since 10/4!
It was a daily struggle in the beginning. She would call me every day telling me how much she wants to come home and all the reasons she hates it there. I just calmly would remind her (and me!) that she cannot come home until she COMPLETES treatment.  She still calls me every day but now they are more of check ins and talks about when she gets out.  I'm thankful because every day she calls is one more day she's stayed there. I hope I'm not jinxing it but... .I think she may complete treatment this time! 
I've been going to therapy myself, which I've done before. That being said, I now understand the difference between a therapist and a great therapist. I decided to start seeing the LMFT that did marriage counseling with my husband and I. His schedule works better with mine than my last individual LMFT and he's easier to talk to.  I'm so glad I did!  He's been fantastic.  I'm really learning a lot about myself. I haven't had any new revalations from my childhood like you see in the movies, but I have remembered things that I had forgotten. It's help me to connect things and understand some situations better now.
So... .that's where I am.  Now that things have begun to even out, I hope to be back on here more often and I look forward to catching up on all of you!

[Feeling Better]

Hi DremNCWgrl

Thanks for updating us. I’m really pleased for you, it looks like you sticking to your guns is paying off.

Glad to hear that you are benefiting from therapy too. I was so thankful earlier this year when I went to counselling, I learned a lot about myself and my relationships, it was the best thing I’d done for myself x 

[wendydarling]

Hi DremNCWgrl

As I write, I've everything I have to cross, crossed your DD is still in treatment. How long is treatment?  Good for you leading by example, getting the support you need through therapy, sending the message to your DD that we all need support and doing the work helps, it's ok. Isn't is wonderful to work with a great therapist  , I'm delighted for you, it makes so much difference.

I try to look for the positives and validate, your DD realised her friend's problems were too much for her, she left. My DD let 3 friends go for similar reasons, she felt relief and today reflects it was a good decision she made. She's self-validating, something our children struggle with and seeking my validation. Worth keeping a watchful eye and ear out for those validation opportunities, there are more than we often realise. My DD responds well.

Day by day.   

Sorry to hear about your friend.   

WDx