Starting to really question where I stand

[Frankee]

He got angry because I told my new counselor about some physical incidents with my ex and I didn't tell him.  I told him I didn't want it to be something else to be used against me when we re fighting.  That I hadn't trusted him.  He was upset because after all these years I was still having trouble.

That I don't ever answer his questions right.  I dodged the question about getting a grant for abuse victims.  He asked if I told her anything about him.  Told me I wasn't an abuse victim.
It was all about my ex.  Told about the time he threw a laptop and did other stuff.  He doesn't believe me.  Says I made it up on the car ride.  Believes this is why counseling is stupid.

I go back next week.  He got upset saying it's so I can talk about more stuff that is going to be kept a secret.  That it's my right.  He hasn't talked to me about stuff in his counseling.  Claims to not talk bad about me.  Thinks I went in there and bad mouthed about him.

I don't see it as us.  It's me and him. How I don't ever answer his questions right.  I told him I talked about that in counseling.  How I need to work on my communication.  Claims I never want to talk.  That this conversation won't be talked about again unless he brings it up in a fight.  But how it is just him throwing it in my face instead of trying to go back to a problem that didn't get fixed.

He doesn't think it's him.  He put it all on me.  That he didn't want to do it right after counseling.  He went all grilling my butt and acting like the DA as catfamiliar mentioned in my other posts.  He was pressing pretty hard.  I think he wanted me to admit I talked smack about him.  He even went so far as saying asking me questions at all seems to be the problem.

I am not sure where my relationship is going to end up.  I was certain, but after one counseling sessions where I felt good, turned in an interrogation.  Where I tried to be brutally honest like he loves to do, but it ended up with me being the bad guy for not trusting him.

The kind of $hit I have gone through, I have every right to have doubts about what to tell him.  He puts a lot on my shoulder, snaps quickly when I forget things or ask the wrong things.  Then he is getting better and expects me to just snap my fingers and magically act like he is the perfect husband.

I am exhausted mentally.  It seems like there is never a break with him.  I can't even talk about some really cruel stuff he said only a few days ago because he says he was doped up and doesn't remember.  I know he does because he kept asking if I was okay the day after

[Frankee]

I should add a classic blame placing.  I sat there in silence.  Thinking and hurt.  He gets upset and says, go ahead and do the same thing you always do.  Just sit there being quiet when you know that it makes me even more upset to where I blow up.  You're no good at reassuring.  I asked the same question 5 times and you still didn't answer right.

[formflier]

  I sat there in silence.  

Ugg... double and triple uggg.

   

As you look back on what he said and what you did in response... .how do you feel about it?

Are you able to separate your feelings about his words and your response?

We're ready to listen when you are ready to chat more... .

FF

[PeteWitsend]

After reading your thread title, I think it might help you sort out your thoughts to write down what's happening, and when.  When you feel yourself losing sight of how things started and went sideways that might help.

You may even want to get a voice activated recorder for some of this stuff.

In regards to the former... .strongly suggest you don't keep your journal at home.

In regards to the latter make sure you are comfortable using it and he won't find it or notice it on you.

Sounds like a rough situation... .I sympathize with everything urngoing thru.

[Cat Familiar]

A big problem I see is that he doesn't think your experience and feelings are valid and that he should be privy to all your inner thoughts and secrets from the past.

Then he's also paranoid that you may be discussing him with your counselor. He claims that you don't want to talk with him, but he certainly doesn't make it comfortable for you to talk to him or trust that what you say won't be used against you at a later date.

Why should you trust him when he interrogates you, criticizes you for "not answering properly" and in general makes you uncomfortable with his relentless questioning? Who would feel comfortable being treated that way?   

[Frankee]

The original post was pretty sporadic.  I wanted to note it down before I forgot anything.

First realization was being blamed for his reaction.  I have heard countless times being blamed for causing him to blow up because I am being quiet.  Then it leads to me not wanting to talk ever.  I don't like how I reacted.  Mostly it was due to I wasn't telling the full truth and my poker face sucked.

This is kind of like my journal.  I already got caught once with a list of $hitty behavior he was doing.  Was part of a self care ritual.  Write it down, read over it, let it go, and rip it up.  Well he found it before I ripped it up.

He does want free access to everything in my head.  He feels entitled because he claims to have been 100% honest about everything.

Dang straight I am talking about him.  He's the reason I am doing this.  I know he is the only one that is such a friggin challenge to communicate with.  Everyone sees him as this cool friendly guy.  When I have to deal with him getting mad at me because dinner doesn't look good and I gave him too much, then crossing his arms and literally huffing over it.  This is the kind of ¢rap my 7 year old would pull.  Then telling me he's *#$ing pi$$ed and knows it doesn't make sense.  Then I being the "normal one" is supposed to understand the real "deep" reason he's mad.

You're exactly right Cat.  He doesn't see it as his behavior with telling me I don't answer questions right, asking me questions is obviously the problem, has proven to use my past against me when he's really angry, that I don't ask the right questions, and grilling me right after my counseling to find out if I 'bad mouthed" him.  Yeah, let me open up right to you and tell you all my dirty little secrets.

[formflier]

Then he's also paranoid that you may be discussing him with your counselor.

I see two ways to go with this... it really depends on his "readiness" to "hear" this.

Ok... perhaps three ways.

1.  My discussions with my counselor are private.  (end conversation)  Or perhaps ask for help understanding the worry here.

2.  Oh... .goodness... .well if my relationship with the counselor is concerning, please come next week and let's discuss.

3.  100% agree.  I do talk to my counselor about my relationship with you.  My marriage is important part of who I am.

FF

[Frankee]

I am not sure now.  He decided to say I was a child abuser and I abused the youngest.  I swatted his butt.  I know it's a huge deal because of his past with abuse.  I apologized to my bph and the youngest.  Promised not to do it again.  My bph thinks my promises are ¢rap because I always break them.  I think I might be to far gone with my feelings of resentment towards him.  Going back to counseling next week.

[Cat Familiar]

First realization was being blamed for his reaction.  I have heard countless times being blamed for causing him to blow up because I am being quiet.

This is standard operating procedure for abusers. "It's your fault that I did this."  "You made me do it." 

Then it leads to me not wanting to talk ever.  I don't like how I reacted.  Mostly it was due to I wasn't telling the full truth and my poker face sucked.

Who would want to talk when treated like this? You don't feel safe enough to fully disclose. Makes sense.

This is kind of like my journal.  I already got caught once with a list of $hitty behavior he was doing.  Was part of a self care ritual.  Write it down, read over it, let it go, and rip it up.  Well he found it before I ripped it up.

He does want free access to everything in my head.  He feels entitled because he claims to have been 100% honest about everything.

Again--you don't feel safe enough to be totally candid with him and he's a boundary buster. He feels like he has the right to read your journal!  

Dang straight I am talking about him.  He's the reason I am doing this.  I know he is the only one that is such a friggin challenge to communicate with.  Everyone sees him as this cool friendly guy.  When I have to deal with him getting mad at me because dinner doesn't look good and I gave him too much, then crossing his arms and literally huffing over it.  This is the kind of ¢rap my 7 year old would pull.  Then telling me he's *#$ing pi$$ed and knows it doesn't make sense.  Then I being the "normal one" is supposed to understand the real "deep" reason he's mad.

Of course you are. His behavior is difficult to deal with--it would be for anyone. Talk to your counselor about how you can establish boundaries around this. It's wearing you out.  

You're exactly right Cat.  He doesn't see it as his behavior with telling me I don't answer questions right, asking me questions is obviously the problem, has proven to use my past against me when he's really angry, that I don't ask the right questions, and grilling me right after my counseling to find out if I 'bad mouthed" him.  Yeah, let me open up right to you and tell you all my dirty little secrets.

Again--you don't trust him and with good reason. You need to feel safe, that anything you disclose to him will not be used against you at a later point. Boundaries, boundaries, boundaries. Since you haven't had them with him, it will take some doing to establish them, both for you to remember to uphold them and for him to respect them. Likely there will be some backlash, but start small, like "I have a right to be quiet. I'm thinking about things and what you're saying." A little bit at a time. Your counselor will help you with this.    

Cat

[Cat Familiar]

I am not sure now.  He decided to say I was a child abuser and I abused the youngest.  I swatted his butt.  I know it's a huge deal because of his past with abuse.  I apologized to my bph and the youngest.  Promised not to do it again.  My bph thinks my promises are ¢rap because I always break them.  I think I might be to far gone with my feelings of resentment towards him.  Going back to counseling next week.

Hey, you're a mom! Give yourself some slack. You've been sleep deprived and under great stress as you contemplate what's happening in your marriage. I'm glad to hear you've got a counseling appointment next week. You do your best, Frankee. You know that. Don't let what he says get to you.   

[Frankee]

Hey, you're a mom! Give yourself some slack. You've been sleep deprived and under great stress as you contemplate what's happening in your marriage.
You do your best, Frankee. You know that. Don't let what he says get to you.   

I really needed that, thank you.  All he saw was, you're beating my son when he did nothing wrong, it's a huge deal, you abused him.


"I have a right to be quiet. I'm thinking about things and what you're saying."

I am going to remember that.  I know it will make him angry, but I need to get that out there.  I am tired of that dance.  Getting angry because I won't talk, cornering me until I talk and then getting upset I talk only after he gets angry.  I'm done.  I don't think he will ever see the way he talks to me about that kind of stuff will have any bearing on why I don't openly talk about stuff. 

Even in the one counseling session I had, she even understands better than him.

I also this #3 would work better with him.  Letting him know I am talking about him, but it is to help us.

[Frankee]

It was mentioned in another post but can't remember by who.  It was said we are both changing and the way we are dealing with each other. 

My ways of self preservation and having him react certain ways to things I say are still going on.  He sees it as, he's getting better, I'm not.  I'm getting worse.  I see, I'm less tolerant of certain behavior, still don't fully trust him not to use things against me, and honestly wondering how I really feel about him.

Sometimes I feel I am just skating along, on the look out for the thin ice.

[Cat Familiar]

we are both changing and the way we are dealing with each other. 

As you both change, the dynamic between you two changes.

My ways of self preservation and having him react certain ways to things I say are still going on.  He sees it as, he's getting better, I'm not.  I'm getting worse.  I see, I'm less tolerant of certain behavior, still don't fully trust him not to use things against me, and honestly wondering how I really feel about him.

Right now you’re not in as much danger as you were when you fled with the kids to a women’s shelter. This is giving you time to “catch up” with your emotions. Back then, you were in emergency mode, doing all you could to protect yourself and your children.

Now you have time to process your feelings and you’ve got some very legitimate feelings that are now getting air time. Of course you’re leery of trusting him. Some months ago he behaved in a very untrustworthy manner.

Now he is trying to tell you that he’s different and you should trust him fully. So far, these are words and you don’t have a history of his actions matching them. It might be true that he’s making some changes that will lead you to trust him in the future, but for now, you’re not sure.

And what’s adding to that uncertainty is how he presses you for answers, criticizes how you respond to his questions, and wants to invade your privacy about things you’d rather not share with him. All three of these behaviors certainly don’t lead to you feeling like he’s trustworthy and why would you, based upon the way he’s acted in the past?

If he wants your trust, he will have to honor your privacy and treat you with respect, something he hasn’t yet tried.

[Frankee]

Yesterday was a pretty good day.  I tried to take the kids to the park.  Unfortunately with all the rain the mosquitoes were bad, even with bug spray.  That and it was pretty hot.  I did feel better though, getting out of the house for a little while.

My bph surprised me.  Asking me if I was doing okay.  The youngest was throwing a fit.  Even helped me with dinner while I was dealing with him.  After dinner when I was entertaining the kids, he started doing dishes.  I poked my head in the kitchen and gave him big hugs.  Even helped me get the kids to sleep while chatting. 

The youngest was being difficult and started getting really cranky at bed time.  He even said at one point that he was wrong the other night, maybe he deserved being swatted in the butt.

I went from feeling that he was being an outright jerk to seeing that he was trying to help out.  Some days I want to throat punch to thinking he's the sweetest man. 

He's been taking his medicine.  It seems to be helping him sleep.  He doesn't stay up nearly as late as he use to be.  Even seems calmer in the mornings.  I am still not sure how much it is from medicine and just him.  I guess I shouldn't really think on it too much.

I do see that he is trying.  I see he is making an effort and even doing things he normally doesn't do.  I am trying to find my own balance with this.  I do love him and I know I still struggle with processing old feelings.  I can show him how much I appreciate his current effort, but I still have concerns of relaxing too much especially when he has an outburst.

[Cat Familiar]

Wow! So nice to hear that he is being helpful with the kids and household tasks.     Good work giving him positive reinforcement with the hugs when he was washing dishes! 

Getting good sleep is a great step towards being able to regulate his moods better. 

I'm so glad that things are moving in a good direction and that you are acknowledging him taking steps to be kind and helpful.    It's a process and it will take a while to build good new habits in your marriage.

And of course you're processing old feelings. That will take a while too. I'm so glad that you have a counselor to help you with this. And yes, he's making a great effort to be his better self and that's wonderful!    But you are wise to realize that he may not be able to consistently do that---yet. Again, it takes time to learn to do new positive habits and sometimes there will be slip-ups, but best to look at the overall pattern. Things are improving over time!
   

Cat

[Frankee]

It has been a little over a week since I have posted.  That's the last time we've had any altercations.  I am still feeling it from last time we got out of hand.  Something popped in my rib cage.  It is still causing me problems and pain.  I am going to have to go to a doctor if it doesn't get better.  I looked it up and seen that apparently it's something easy to do.  He seems to be leveling out.  Anytime he has gotten upset, it seems more equal to the problem.  The medicine seems to be helping out a lot.  I am finding myself in a selfish, be careful what you wish for situation.

The medicine he takes at night knocks him flat on his butt.  We haven't had "relations" since he started taking it regularly.  By the time I make it to bed, he is already struggling to stay awake.  I mentioned one night that I having been wanting to be intimate, but the medicine makes him so tired.  He even said he thought he would be use to it by know and have adjusted.  He wants to do better and take the medicine as prescribed.  I think we are just both feeling the nighttime medicine is putting a damper on intimacy.

Just not sure what to do.  I can't tell him to stop taking the medicine.  I'm not a doctor.  I am happy he is getting sleep, just miss having that little bit of time together.

[Cat Familiar]

It's great that he's leveling out.    I had a great conversation with a psychologist friend and she is a big advocate of utilizing pharmaceuticals for a limited time to support behavioral changes. Sometimes she said, it's just too difficult to manage existing emotions and at the same time, try to change patterns. Pharmaceuticals can support behavioral change and help people establish new patterns of response, thereby creating positive habits.

It's good that he's getting better sleep as chronic sleep deprivation can contribute to irritability and exacerbate poor coping skills.

How about you set up a "home date" with him and have someone look after the kids for a couple of hours and be intimate before it gets too late in the evening? That would probably be an idea that he would appreciate.

[Frankee]

It's great that he's leveling out.    I had a great conversation with a psychologist friend and she is a big advocate of utilizing pharmaceuticals for a limited time to support behavioral changes. Sometimes she said, it's just too difficult to manage existing emotions and at the same time, try to change patterns. Pharmaceuticals can support behavioral change and help people establish new patterns of response, thereby creating positive habits.

It's good that he's getting better sleep as chronic sleep deprivation can contribute to irritability and exacerbate poor coping skills.

How about you set up a "home date" with him and have someone look after the kids for a couple of hours and be intimate before it gets too late in the evening? That would probably be an idea that he would appreciate.

That's actually really good to hear.  I was becoming concerned on the long term usage of the medicine.  I know he doesn't like the medicine at night.  It makes him drowsy and feeling wierd.  One night he took it a little earlier and it was late getting the kids to bed.  He tried to say goodnight to them and it was almost like he was drunk.  I could tell the medicine was hitting him.

We actually ended up having a "quick home date".  His brother entertained the kids for a little bit, while we met in the bathroom.  I kind of laugh at it.  Not exactly romantic, but we were able to have some quick fun.  I still definitely want to spend more time the two of us before he's a snoring zombie.

This morning, I thought about who he was when he met.  He was fun and crazy back then, we both were.  He has come a long way and I am proud of him.  Sometimes it's easy to overlook all the good he has accomplished when he does dysregulate.  It's a hard balance. I hope some day he can stop with the medicine all together. 

[Cat Familiar]

Over time, he might not have such a strong reaction to the meds. Or another option is to ask his doctor for a different medication, one that might not cause such undesirable side effects. He hasn’t been on it long and of course you don’t want it to be a crutch, but for now it’s helping him integrate new behaviors and he’s sleeping better, so that’s good.

It’s good that you’re looking at the long view and noticing that he’s making some big improvements. 

And schedule more of those “home dates” ASAP! 

[Frankee]

I think him getting better sleep is helping a lot too.  He started a new job that has morning hours.  He's been going to bed pretty earlier and seems to be getting on a better schedule.  I am really happy that he has been falling asleep easier.  I decided that I need to stress less about it.  It is more beneficial that he gets the necessary sleep to help support the changes.  He was doing well on his own, but I think it was too much at once.

I am noticing that he has become more supportive.  Not so much dumping everything on me.  Small things.  Last time he had any real sort of meltdown was when I made the intial post.

I still take a step back and look at all of this.  I never pictured I would be with someone who genuinely needed medicine to help them stabilize.  It really does seem to make a big difference.  I don't know how long he'll need it, but he's strong and I think one day he will not need them.

[formflier]

I think the benefits of good sleep are generally underestimated.   I know in my wife's FOO, and with my wife to a much more limited extent, there are horrible, absolutely horrible sleep habits.

Seems very common in pwBPD.  "Sleeping" with the TV blaring all night, "sleeping" in a recliner vice a bed, erratic sleep schedules.

I kid you not, I remember early on in our marriage waking up to find my SIL (much worse BPD than my wife) in a recliner, with her head on the floor where feet normally should be and feet up on headrest.  Additionally, there was an odd twist to her body.

I asked my wife how that could be comfortable for her sister and she just kinda shrugged and said she did that kind of thing "all the time".

For me, if my 7 day sleep average is up around 7.5 to 8... .I love to be around myself.  I'm happy go lucky.

Get me down around 6.5 or less for a 7 day average and I don't like to be around myself, so I can't imagine that others would.

Frankee

I'm so pleased that things seem to be going in a good direction.   What is the most important thing you been doing to gain and keep momentum in the right direction?

FF

[Cat Familiar]

Awesome changes, Frankee! 

He’s only been on the medication for a few weeks. Don’t worry. Hopefully those changes will fully integrate in his personality and he will be able to wean himself off the meds after a while. Very important to do this under the guidance of a doctor. It’s definitely not something to do cold turkey. I can see that you’re concerned, but as a short term measure, it’s been very beneficial to establishing healthy behavioral patterns.