Not sure if he's a narcissist, not sure if it matters

[How to communicate after a contentious divorce...]

Good morning.  My husband left 5 days ago.  I'm a roller coaster of sad, ashamed, relieved, ANGRY.  We met 12 years ago in a whirlwind romance.  (on a support group message board no less).  3 months later he left his country (US)  and family to come be with me (Canada).  THAT kept getting thrown in my face.  We got married about a year after we met and things were sweet and romantic and after two abusive relationship he just seemed so perfect. 

Of course all the financial stuff was on me.  He would drive me anywhere I needed to go, but wouldn't come inside the stores unless I specifically needed an opinion on something.  He would joke that it was my job to do the grocery shopping, his job to carry it in the house.  He would do all the big things around the house but never clean. 

Then three years ago he got diagnosed with a chronic illness.  and he became obsessed.  Then a year ago he started having chronic pain and he became even more obsessed.  EVERY conversation was about his pain, an endless going over of everything he read or knew about his illness.  Which I understood.  For a while.  But it got to the point where if I said "my knee hurts", his response was "well my knee and elbow and ankle hurts".  And I began to feel, well, invisible. 

Throughout the years his rage would show, especially when he was drinking.  Holes in the walls, because it was better than hitting me in the face.  Every time we would have a huge fight, he would leave, sometimes for days, sometimes for weeks.  Every fight he would hurl CRUEL words, then expect me to just forget they were said because he was angry. 

We had a fight on his 50th birthday so the following Sunday we had my family over for a BBQ.  After the dinner, and the cake, my daughter (not his child) wanted to go through some clothes with my mom ... .his response "really, it's my birthday".  Then last Tuesday we had his appointment for surgery, which was going to fix his MAJOR pain problem.  My daughter came, her boyfriend came home, (both early 20s) husband came downstairs and was talking about the appointment.  After discussing everything the doctor said (which was honestly a 10 minute appointment), I was at the point of describing the doctor's office decorations, when my daughter mentioned how surgery is less invasive these days and mentioned her surgery and he muttered something.  She got upset, and said that he was basically telling her she was making it all about her and to shut up.  What he had said was "can we talk about MY appointment".  So the "kids" left and he and I got into it.

2 hours of random nonsense.  How he hates my daughter, how he has always hated her, how I don't understand that he left his family and friends to be with me.  Pretty sure he was drinking and taking pain meds because he was making NO sense.  So I told him to just go to sleep and we would talk in the morning.  A little while later I heard him leave the room.  Five minutes later I hear my daughter screaming.  The sound she made haunts me.  I ran downstairs and saw her sobbing, her boyfriend comforting her and my ex standing near them.  Long story short, I heard that he threw a blanket at her.  She ended up running outside when he started yelling obscenities at her.  I went outside, asked her boyfriend if she would ever forgive him, he said no.  She told me that if I decided to forgive him she would understand, but that she would move out.  (I said that was no happening).  She said he would NEVER be in a room with him again.

I sent the kids away to feel safe (as I didn't think he was in any condition to drive), and went upstairs.  He lost it.  Called her and me all sorts of names and said it was him or her.  That he had thrown a blanket at her "boo fing hoo" and in return she had kicked him in the throat.  I told him that for now he had to leave.  Go get a room somewhere and get his surgery and then we could figure out what to do when he was okay, and she had had time to see if she should forgive him.

Next day I went to work, came home and he was gone.  Back to the US and his family.  I realize that he never fully accepted being here.  That he couldn't handle that I had a child that would always come first.  What I do not understand is that he was on medical leave, about to get accepted for long term disability, we had good benefits so his meds were covered, and he just LEFT.  I mean why not rent a room and get the surgery THEN leave.  Part of me thinks he just liked the "woe is me".

I found out the day after he left that he had actually assaulted her.  The "throwing" of the blanket was more of a shoving it in her face and letting it go.  When she got up to come get me, he grabbed her by the arms and threw her across the couch and she fell half on and half off.  At that point they do not know if he tripped on the blanket which was now on the floor or he lunged at her, but he was half on her and grabbing at her legs and trying to pull her back down (I am nauseous typing this).  At some point when one of her legs was free, she kicked him and as he fell off of her her boyfriend jumped in between them and pushed him off.  That is where I came in.

I am sad.  I miss the man that I thought I married.  I am relieved.  By the end he kept everyone on edge.  I am FURIOUS - I commented to him that every time he left I begged him to come back (and he always would say I FORCED him to come back) so he finally did the thing I could never forgive him for and he said "yup I did".   I realize our marriage was truly over a while back.  Maybe months.  Maybe even years.  I forgave SO much. 

There is obviously SO much more.  I just don't know what I'm feeling right now.  I THINK he's a classic narcissist.  BUT he showed empathy - or at least I thought he did?  He would SAY he understood.  He was rather low key for the most part, but would explode about something specific and say it had been bothering him for a while but he just couldn't take it anymore. 

If he isn't a narcissist, then he is close to one.  Either way it's over.  I guess I just want to understand all the things I was willing to overlook so I don't keep making the same mistakes and to learn who I am and why I am okay being treated poorly.

Bit of a ramble... .

[NotsurewhoIam]

Good morning.  My husband left 5 days ago.  I'm a roller coaster of sad, ashamed, relieved, ANGRY.  We met 12 years ago in a whirlwind romance.  (on a support group message board no less).  3 months later he left his country (US)  and family to come be with me (Canada).  THAT kept getting thrown in my face.  We got married about a year after we met and things were sweet and romantic and after two abusive relationship he just seemed so perfect. 

Of course all the financial stuff was on me.  He would drive me anywhere I needed to go, but wouldn't come inside the stores unless I specifically needed an opinion on something.  He would joke that it was my job to do the grocery shopping, his job to carry it in the house.  He would do all the big things around the house but never clean. 

Then three years ago he got diagnosed with a chronic illness.  and he became obsessed.  Then a year ago he started having chronic pain and he became even more obsessed.  EVERY conversation was about his pain, an endless going over of everything he read or knew about his illness.  Which I understood.  For a while.  But it got to the point where if I said "my knee hurts", his response was "well my knee and elbow and ankle hurts".  And I began to feel, well, invisible. 

Throughout the years his rage would show, especially when he was drinking.  Holes in the walls, because it was better than hitting me in the face.  Every time we would have a huge fight, he would leave, sometimes for days, sometimes for weeks.  Every fight he would hurl CRUEL words, then expect me to just forget they were said because he was angry. 

We had a fight on his 50th birthday so the following Sunday we had my family over for a BBQ.  After the dinner, and the cake, my daughter (not his child) wanted to go through some clothes with my mom ... .his response "really, it's my birthday".  Then last Tuesday we had his appointment for surgery, which was going to fix his MAJOR pain problem.  My daughter came, her boyfriend came home, (both early 20s) husband came downstairs and was talking about the appointment.  After discussing everything the doctor said (which was honestly a 10 minute appointment), I was at the point of describing the doctor's office decorations, when my daughter mentioned how surgery is less invasive these days and mentioned her surgery and he muttered something.  She got upset, and said that he was basically telling her she was making it all about her and to shut up.  What he had said was "can we talk about MY appointment".  So the "kids" left and he and I got into it.

2 hours of random nonsense.  How he hates my daughter, how he has always hated her, how I don't understand that he left his family and friends to be with me.  Pretty sure he was drinking and taking pain meds because he was making NO sense.  So I told him to just go to sleep and we would talk in the morning.  A little while later I heard him leave the room.  Five minutes later I hear my daughter screaming.  The sound she made haunts me.  I ran downstairs and saw her sobbing, her boyfriend comforting her and my ex standing near them.  Long story short, I heard that he threw a blanket at her.  She ended up running outside when he started yelling obscenities at her.  I went outside, asked her boyfriend if she would ever forgive him, he said no.  She told me that if I decided to forgive him she would understand, but that she would move out.  (I said that was no happening).  She said he would NEVER be in a room with him again.

I sent the kids away to feel safe (as I didn't think he was in any condition to drive), and went upstairs.  He lost it.  Called her and me all sorts of names and said it was him or her.  That he had thrown a blanket at her "boo fing hoo" and in return she had kicked him in the throat.  I told him that for now he had to leave.  Go get a room somewhere and get his surgery and then we could figure out what to do when he was okay, and she had had time to see if she should forgive him.

Next day I went to work, came home and he was gone.  Back to the US and his family.  I realize that he never fully accepted being here.  That he couldn't handle that I had a child that would always come first.  What I do not understand is that he was on medical leave, about to get accepted for long term disability, we had good benefits so his meds were covered, and he just LEFT.  I mean why not rent a room and get the surgery THEN leave.  Part of me thinks he just liked the "woe is me".

I found out the day after he left that he had actually assaulted her.  The "throwing" of the blanket was more of a shoving it in her face and letting it go.  When she got up to come get me, he grabbed her by the arms and threw her across the couch and she fell half on and half off.  At that point they do not know if he tripped on the blanket which was now on the floor or he lunged at her, but he was half on her and grabbing at her legs and trying to pull her back down (I am nauseous typing this).  At some point when one of her legs was free, she kicked him and as he fell off of her her boyfriend jumped in between them and pushed him off.  That is where I came in.

I am sad.  I miss the man that I thought I married.  I am relieved.  By the end he kept everyone on edge.  I am FURIOUS - I commented to him that every time he left I begged him to come back (and he always would say I FORCED him to come back) so he finally did the thing I could never forgive him for and he said "yup I did".   I realize our marriage was truly over a while back.  Maybe months.  Maybe even years.  I forgave SO much. 

There is obviously SO much more.  I just don't know what I'm feeling right now.  I THINK he's a classic narcissist.  BUT he showed empathy - or at least I thought he did?  He would SAY he understood.  He was rather low key for the most part, but would explode about something specific and say it had been bothering him for a while but he just couldn't take it anymore. 

If he isn't a narcissist, then he is close to one.  Either way it's over.  I guess I just want to understand all the things I was willing to overlook so I don't keep making the same mistakes and to learn who I am and why I am okay being treated poorly.

Bit of a ramble... .

[1stTimer]

Even if he is not a narcissist and even if he is empathetic (as you know saying so don't make it so) he is clearly a verbally and now physically abusive bully who furthermore attacked a girl young enough to be his daughter and for all intents and purposes his daughter. After that, do labels matter?  I think you are asking yourself, in fact, a far far more important question then what he is; why were you willing to overlook those behaviors for so long so you don't make the same mistakes again and don't expose yourself of the people you love to harm or abuse.

I can't speak to the marriage part of it since I have not been married. There are plenty of people on here who suffered through either BPD or NPD or simply abusive marriages who can give you some deeper insights into what happened, why, how to deal with the aftermath, etc. All I can say is it sounds like it is a relationship you are well rid of and you are asking the right and healthy questions.

[Mustbeabetterway]

 :hi:notsurewhoIam,

That sounds awful.  Sorry for all you have been through.  Glad you are here despite the circumstances that brought you.  We are a supportive community and I think you will find encouragement and a path to healing.

First of all, be kind to yourself.  You have been through a very emotional time.  When I was first separated, I received advice to treat myself carefully, as if I were recovering from an illness.  This really did help me through a tough period. 

When you are up to it, check out the lessons on the right of this page.  There is a lot of good information. 

Asking why you were ok with being treated poorly sounds like a worthwhile investigation.  I also would ask, what can you do to treat yourself well? 

We are here to help and lend support.

Peace and blessings,

Mustbeabetterway

[OrionLeonardo]

I'm a roller coaster of sad, ashamed, relieved, ANGRY.   

And I began to feel, well, invisible. 

Throughout the years his rage would show, Holes in the walls,  Every fight he would hurl CRUEL words, then expect me to just forget they were said because he was angry. 

I forgave SO much. 

There is obviously SO much more.  I just don't know what I'm feeling right now.  I THINK he's a classic narcissist.  BUT he showed empathy - or at least I thought he did?  He would SAY he understood.  He was rather low key for the most part, but would explode about something specific and say it had been bothering him for a while but he just couldn't take it anymore. 

If he isn't a narcissist, then he is close to one.  Either way it's over.  I guess I just want to understand all the things I was willing to overlook so I don't keep making the same mistakes and to learn who I am and why I am okay being treated poorly.

Bit of a ramble... .

I want to start out by saying how proud I am of you. This is hard. I am not sure the labels matter although in a weird way, I couldn't come to terms with what was going on with my ex until I had the words and had also researched in depth what it all meant. I had two therapists tell me my gf was most likely a narcissist. Upon researching BPD fit also. In my angrier moments psychopath or sociopath fit the bill to a degree.

I completely understand wanting to know what things were overlooked to avoid another situation like the ones we have been through. I found, for me, that I didn't have clear and solid boundaries. I wanted her love so much that I let her talk me into many things that I would now consider crazy. I don't think wanting love is a bad thing but I've come to realize that some love isn't worth having.

It is hard. It takes time. I was not with my ex nearly as long as you were with yours. I am not going to pretend to know how much hurt you must be feeling. I do know that you came to a very supportive place and although I'm sure some days you'll want him back, like a lot of us here, we are better off without them.

I'm an empath, which is common for us to date/love narcissists, because they are good at mirroring us in the beginning. Getting us to think how perfect things are then flipping. My counselor called it trauma bonding.

It took me a while to get off of the emotional roller coaster, well or at least have it slow down a bit. Things do get easier.

I actually invested in myself and went to a Reiki appointment. We did some cord cutting. Guilt, Conflict, betrayal, blaming, resentment, and rejection. I honestly didn't know it would help as much as it did. My mood has been so much better and the waves have subsided immensely.

I hope you find the clarity you are looking for.     

[NotsurewhoIam]

Thank you Mustbeabetterway for your nice words.  I like the analogy of it being an illness.  Thank you also for pointing out the Lessons on the right of the page, I had notice the five stages of detachment, but hadn't noticed the lessons.  I know I will be doing a LOT of reading over the next while.

[NotsurewhoIam]

OrionLeonardo - thank you.  I am fairly sure I am an empath too.  At the very least I have always been told that I am TOO kind and TOO generous and I never look after myself.  My daughter tells me that now is the time I need to be selfish.  I am very grateful that I have some place to come to where people will understand.

[Cromwell]

Either way it's over.  I guess I just want to understand all the things I was willing to overlook so I don't keep making the same mistakes and to learn who I am and why I am okay being treated poorly.

Well done, in terms of understanding things there is a wealth of information out there.

words are important, (can give insight and clues) if you pick up on them. but behaviour trumps them.

when their promises or grandiose plans, etc, start not to match up, and get replaced with excuses instead "oh I was having a bad day" or how it comes across with how your experience went, an 'apology' which actually isnt one, it is phrased in a way to still make others at fault for their actions. its  or at least should be.

[1stTimer]

an 'apology' which actually isnt one, it is phrased in a way to still make others at fault for their actions. its  or at least should be.

My favorite from xpwBPD was "I'm sorry you feel that way"

[Cromwell]

My favorite from xpwBPD was "I'm sorry you feel that way"

How about "im sorry, but you did make me do it"

but what was more taken aback was the fact that I believe she truly believes it. thats the bit that is so jaw dropping about it.

[OrionLeonardo]

OrionLeonardo - thank you.  I am fairly sure I am an empath too.  At the very least I have always been told that I am TOO kind and TOO generous and I never look after myself.  My daughter tells me that now is the time I need to be selfish.  I am very grateful that I have some place to come to where people will understand.

Your daughter seems like she is very insightful. Although I don't know that there is such a thing as too nice because lets face it the world is a pretty rough place sometimes. I do know for me, its boundaries. You can still be nice yet have boundaries. I have the problem of getting too worried about other people not liking my boundaries. With my ex when I said no it was usually a week of stonewalling and gas lighting. It's a process yet I know when I am better at it things will be easier. I'm fairly certain that upon mastering boundaries the people I have been attracting to me will no longer want to be around me.

Yes, be selfish. Treat yourself with love and compassion and kindness. Soul search for who you are and what you want, the things you won't put up with anymore. Take some days just to cry it out and others to dance like no one is watching. As painful as it is to lose someone you love, you are the only person you have to deal with every day. I used to drive when I was really stressed. No matter where I went there I was. It took a couple of months but music has started helping again. I have reconnected with some good friends and done some things that I hadn't gotten around to from being hyper-focused on "fixing" the problems that now I'm pretty sure weren't really there.

You can get through this.