The friend of my uBPD mother who I am NC with wants to see me?

[naturalturn]

Hi yall!

My birthday is next Friday the 28th and a family friend reached out to me over the weekend and asked if she could take me to lunch next week sometime. This family friend has been more of my mom's friend than mine because she's the same age as my mother. However, she has always liked me and got along better with me than my uBPD mother (which my mother has always been jealous of.)

I have tried to put space between this family friend as a way to avoid conflict with my mother. My mother is very jealous whenever I speak to this friend. But, the issue is, this friend is actually a great person who I know would do anything for me, so I feel it isn't right to decline her invitation to lunch.

I have been NC with my mother for about a month and a half now which has been great. But I haven't told anybody about this outside of my fiance and father. I have no idea if this family friend knows the situation about me and my mother and I worry she will invite my mother to lunch or tell her about it. Whenever I have been invited to something, it is basically assumed that my mother is invited too which has grown to be problematic.
The family friend did say I should bring along my fiance and dog, which is something my mother got in fights over (she always wanted me to be alone with her) so I took that as a sign my mother may not be invited, but I still worry.

I don't want to say something about my situation with my mother to the family friend because I don't want to talk bad about my mother or turn her friends against her or cause drama or get somebody in the middle of this mess. This family friend is very nice but she can sometimes not be great at keeping a secret plus she has expressed to me in the past that she thinks my mom acts "crazy" and is very difficult to be friends with- if I said something, it may give her ammunition to confront my mother.

I'm hoping to schedule a lunch during a time my mother is working, but I feel like I still need to clarify she won't be there.

I wanted to ask, what do I say? Am I being stressed for no reason? How can I make sure my mother isn't there without it somehow turning into a big deal or sounding rude?

[Harri]

Hi naturalturn.  I think I would feel some anxiety in your situation but it would not stop me from getting together.  I am glad you are not considering that, for your sake.

You ask what to say.  Well, I wouldn't say anything unless she says something and then i would calmly say something like "I've been looking forward to talking and catching up with you so lets do that" and just keep politely re-directing the conversation.  I said keep re-directing, but I think my limit would be twice before i said directly "I do not want to talk about my mother".  And leave it at that. 

This will be a good opportunity to avoid any bad triangulation that may happen and to practice being assertive and enforcing your boundaries with respect and kindness.

Practice with your finacee and maybe set up a signal with him if you feel you are in over your head but I think if you practice and not just in your head but actually say things out loud, you will be okay.

If your mother is there well, if it were me, I would say i am sorry but I have to cut this short, something came up.

how does that sound?  We can help you come up with responses that will work for you.

[Panda39]

Hi natualturn,

I agree, if you want to see this friend by all means go!  I also understand your caution. I'd be honest and tell her I'd love to go and also tell her up front that things are strained between you and your mom right now so you'd rather not talk about her. (I think if you tell her this before the lunch she'd be less likely to try and invite your mom).

If she asks what's going on just tell her you don't want to talk about it.

Have an exit plan in case your mom shows up (get your fiancé on the same page).

Panda39

[Harri]

Wise Panda... .keep it simple and don't over think it (though I know that is hard)

[isilme]

I think it's normal to feel stressed.  I also agree you aren't obligated to share more than you want, and I think it helps me to have some pre-planned responses to what might come up.

"I'm taking a break from talking to mom right now, things are strained and I need some distance from her, but I'd love to see you for lunch."

And yes, have a plan to leave if you feel a need to do so.  Even if your mom's friend respects your boundaries and does not directly invite your mom, if she accidentally mentions lunch to your mom your mom might attempt to come, so be ready to leave if you need. 

Have some cash on hand you can just leave on a table to cover your part of the check if you go suddenly.  Pick a place you can get out of, that has more than one way to the parking lot if you can.  Yes, enlist your fiance to help. 

If she pries during lunch or tries to encourage you back into contact, just say, "I've been encouraged to develop some healthy distance right now, (change subject) how is your garden doing?  What movies have you seen?  What do you think of the new show on Netflix?  I saw something neat you put on Pinterest?  This weather we've been having is XYZ, don't you think? (I obviously don't know how to talk to people).  Put a question back to her, so she's the one talking, responding

[zachira]

I would call the friend and ask who will be at the lunch, and make it clear you do not want your mother there or to talk about your mother.

[Learning2Thrive]

I would call the friend and ask who will be at the lunch, and make it clear you do not want your mother there or to talk about your mother.

This would be my advice also.

  L2T

[Harri]

Zachira:

I would call the friend and ask who will be at the lunch, and make it clear you do not want your mother there or to talk about your mother.

I think I like the idea of this but I am wondering how this could be done without bringing other people into the conflict and in part making them responsible for managing our stuff. 

Would it look like :
Hi (dear friend) I am really looking forward to getting together and having some time with just us so we can catch up? 

[Learning2Thrive]

Zachira: I think I like the idea of this but I am wondering how this could be done without bringing other people into the conflict and in part making them responsible for managing our stuff. 

Would it look like :
Hi (dear friend) I am really looking forward to getting together and having some time with just us so we can catch up? 

I think this is great if she can be 100% certain her mother isn’t *instigating* a surprise party. That is something my mother would do/did to make me squirm with discomfort and for her to have the opportunity to cause a scene in front of people I care about.

My 2 pennies worth... .for what it’s worth.

  L2T

[zachira]

Sometimes you have to be straightforward with people and ask them exactly what you are concerned about. Even if the person isn't truthful, their reaction will often tell you a lot about what is going on. Also, if she asks ahead of time, then leaving the lunch  or saying no will be a lot easier, if her mother is there or the friend wants to discuss the mother.

[Notwendy]

I  understand this is causing you some concern. I would feel the same way. I have found that my mother tends to see people as "on her side" and "not on her side". I would also be wary of the drama triangle and wonder if my mother has enlisted this friend as her "rescuer" to get you to speak to her. The friend may ask you to contact her, and it is possible your mother may show up as well.

I feel this way about my mother's FOO. She has both talked them into not speaking to me and also then enlisted them to contact me. When they are "nice" to me, I wonder what is really going on- do they want to speak to me or is she putting them up to it. I am not NC, I am still in contact with her but I am her scapegoat and she tells them I am a terrible daughter. Sadly, I am not sure if they believe it or not.

When I am in contact with someone in my mother's circle, I am pleasant and cordial, and cautious. It's a form of LC. I assume anything I say to them will be reported back to my mother. ( it is) . I stay aware of the potential drama triangle and don't try to tell them "my side" of the story or say anything negative about her. I try to stick with neutral topics- their jobs, their kids, grandkids- and also listen more than talk about myself. If they ask- I don't disclose anything personal- I keep it on the level of a workplace relationship- pleasant and light.

What I don't want to do is play into the narrative of "terrible daughter". In your case, it is just lunch. Keep the mindset of a business lunch.  Personally, I would not even mention my mother to her- or even give her the heads up that there is conflict. It's my mother's stories her friends hear, not mine. They are not inclined to be sympathetic or understanding to me. It will just play into the narrative they hear. My own approach is "what conflict?" I have no idea what she has told them.

It would be unlikely that your mother will cause a scene in a restaurant and with the friend. My mother has an entirely different persona with her friends. They think she is wonderful. If she shows up, she may be wanting to maintain that persona. Also, if you are NC with her, it may not be possible to not see her again ever unless you avoid all her friends, family and that is tough when you both share the same family tree. You can maintain a form of NC while adopting a business like relationship should you run into her. Lunch, talk about the weather, a movie, the news- whatever. Then go your way no drama. If the friend is alone, then be cordial and hear what she has to say. You don't have to agree to anything she asks you. Or- say no to the event altogether and don't go. Whatever you choose, have confidence you will maintain your cool regardless.

[Learning2Thrive]

  naturalturn

Happy belated birthday!   I hope you enjoyed a delightful day/weekend  of celebration.

When you have a moment, I hope you’ll let us know what you decided to do about your mother’s friend’s invitation and how that went.

No matter what, we’re here for you. 

  L2T

[naturalturn]

Thank you all for the advice and thank you L2T for the birthday wishes! I really appreciate it 

I was out of town the last few days and felt a lot of guilt for not speaking to my mother on my birthday. She wrote "Happy Birthday" on my Facebook wall and that sent me into a spiral of guilt. Additionally, she sent me a birthday card in the mail with a $50 visa giftcard. The card read "EAT CAKE! I hope you have a wonderful birthday! Love, Mami"

Though I found it weird she signed Mami since I have never called her that even when I was a child, I felt very emotional by the card and giftcard. I cried for almost an hour and felt a wave of varied emotions.  I was thinking maybe she has changed (my biggest downfall) but my father told me this morning how she told him last week that she doesnt understand me and basically, that I am just being dramatic because all she wants is just to spend time with me. This jolted me back into reality.

As far as the friend, she had to cancel lunch last week because her dog got very sick. We have lunch planned for next week during a time when my mother is working. My T suggested I call and ask her to not share our lunch with my mother which I guess I will do, but feeling lots of dread.

[Learning2Thrive]

... .thank you L2T for the birthday wishes! I really appreciate it 

You’re welcome.   It’s just my opinion, but I think you should take at least a whole week to celebrate your birthday.

I was out of town the last few days and felt a lot of guilt for not speaking to my mother on my birthday. She wrote "Happy Birthday" on my Facebook wall and that sent me into a spiral of guilt. Additionally, she sent me a birthday card in the mail with a $50 visa giftcard. The card read "EAT CAKE! I hope you have a wonderful birthday! Love, Mami"

Remember FOG and what she does is more about her and her issues than it is about you.

Though I found it weird she signed Mami since I have never called her that even when I was a child, I felt very emotional by the card and giftcard. I cried for almost an hour and felt a wave of varied emotions.  I was thinking maybe she has changed (my biggest downfall) but my father told me this morning how she told him last week that she doesnt understand me and basically, that I am just being dramatic because all she wants is just to spend time with me. This jolted me back into reality.

Why do you think she signed the card that way? Is there any significance to “Mami”?

Yes, your mother is very clear in stating what she wants. What do YOU want, naturalturn? Your life belongs to you now that you are an adult, not to your mother. Her refusal to understand that does not make it less true.

As far as the friend, she had to cancel lunch last week because her dog got very sick. We have lunch planned for next week during a time when my mother is working. My T suggested I call and ask her to not share our lunch with my mother which I guess I will do, but feeling lots of dread.

Well, you could also postpone the lunch for a while while you figure things out. That might the pressure off yourself and give you an opportunity to continue to work on mental clarity. You could simply tell your friend that something unexpected has suddenly come up for that day and your schedule is jam packed for the next few weeks (or whatever amount of time). I wouldn’t give specific details if she inquires. If that happens I would just calmly state that it’s personal and I’m not ready to share details at this time.” If she does not respect that and continues to press you, that will tell you more about her and the possible intentions. At that point, I would politely say, “I’m sorry I have to go now... .talk to you soon.” Then hang up.

This is only one idea. There are many different options. We can brainstorm here to come up with what works for you. It takes time to build confidence and establish healthy boundaries.

  L2T

[Notwendy]

Every once in a while, my mother calls me up and uses he word "mommy" "I'm your mommy". I cringe when I hear it. I think at one time, as a small child, I thought of her as my mommy, but I don't emotionally relate to her in that way. A while back she told me she loved me, and I thought what the ?.

It is what it is. Maybe in that moment, she feels like a mommy, or she loves me or maybe not but I don't know her feelings and I don't guess.

Thank her and know that in this moment, she wanted to do it but you may not ever know all of why she does or says these things.

[Panda39]

I was out of town the last few days and felt a lot of guilt for not speaking to my mother on my birthday. She wrote "Happy Birthday" on my Facebook wall and that sent me into a spiral of guilt. Additionally, she sent me a birthday card in the mail with a $50 visa giftcard. The card read "EAT CAKE! I hope you have a wonderful birthday! Love, Mami"

Though I found it weird she signed Mami since I have never called her that even when I was a child, I felt very emotional by the card and giftcard. I cried for almost an hour and felt a wave of varied emotions.  I was thinking maybe she has changed (my biggest downfall) but my father told me this morning how she told him last week that she doesnt understand me and basically, that I am just being dramatic because all she wants is just to spend time with me. This jolted me back into reality.

This kind of inconsistent behavior is what is soo hard.  I see this with my SO's daughter's and their mom.  It plays on hope for one daughter... .hope that mom has changed, hope that she will be the mom she needs her to be, hope that she can have the relationship you've always wanted, and hope that she will consistently express caring, love, kindness.  For the other daughter that hope probably creeps in too, but my guess is that she has the "that's creepy" because it's false feeling.  Then throw in questioning the motivation of the gift, because things (at least in their case) from their mother often come with strings attached.   The inconsistent behavior of their mother has been one of the toughest things for them (particularly younger daughter) to deal with.
 
I agree with Notwendy, it may just be what she feels in the moment (no matter what the motivation is) and that is how I would accept it.  In this moment she feels this way, but in the next minute it will be something else.  You can't control what she does but you can control yourself and how you react, my advice is try to keep your expectations under control, don't try to figure out motivations and just see the gift at face value. Your mom gave you a birthday gift... .that's it... .not why did she give me the gift, what does she want from me, not wow! she's changed etc.  You can accept that gift or not that is also up to you.

Panda39

[naturalturn]

Remember FOG and what she does is more about her and her issues than it is about you.

Thank you L2T, my T just reminded me of this this morning, but I always need to hear this. Sometimes I question if I am the problem or if I'm making this all up or if I'm overreacting or being overly mean to her.

Why do you think she signed the card that way? Is there any significance to “Mami”?

My mom's parents are both latino so my mom calls my grandmother "Mami" which is normal in Spanish. However, I have never been fluent in Spanish and have never called her "Mami." I have always called her "mom" since I was little. So I really don't know, maybe because she wants me to call her mommy but put it in Spanish to not sound AS odd.

Yes, your mother is very clear in stating what she wants. What do YOU want, naturalturn? Your life belongs to you now that you are an adult, not to your mother. Her refusal to understand that does not make it less true.

Yes, thank you! It's true. She only focuses on what she wants and never cares about what I actually want which is one of the reasons things are the way they are. I have told her I like spending time at home and she could come over to my place etc. But that's not enough. She wants to spend time with me, but it needs to be exactly the way she wants --> she wants to go partying, go out and spend money, go shopping, but those aren't things I want to do. Especially when she spends most of the time complaining about how much debt she is in and blaming my dad for the debt.

Well, you could also postpone the lunch for a while while you figure things out.

I have honestly been postponing seeing her since May. I didn't get together with her for her birthday and haven't seen her in a long time because I had so many issues with my mom this summer and I knew my mom would be jealous. That's why I feel like I can't keep postponing it... .I feel bad, she's genuinely a nice person.

[naturalturn]

Every once in a while, my mother calls me up and uses he word "mommy" "I'm your mommy". I cringe when I hear it. I think at one time, as a small child, I thought of her as my mommy, but I don't emotionally relate to her in that way. A while back she told me she loved me, and I thought what the ?.

It is what it is. Maybe in that moment, she feels like a mommy, or she loves me or maybe not but I don't know her feelings and I don't guess.

Thank her and know that in this moment, she wanted to do it but you may not ever know all of why she does or says these things.

Yes, you're absolutely right. My mother definitely lives and emotionally reacts from moment to moment and her feelings can change in an instant. I feel the same way though when my mom talks about how great she is or how I'm the love of her life or how I'm the only person who loves her etc. I cringe so much.

[naturalturn]

This kind of inconsistent behavior is what is soo hard.  I see this with my SO's daughter's and their mom.  It plays on hope for one daughter... .hope that mom has changed, hope that she will be the mom she needs her to be, hope that she can have the relationship you've always wanted, and hope that she will consistently express caring, love, kindness.  For the other daughter that hope probably creeps in too, but my guess is that she has the "that's creepy" because it's false feeling.  Then throw in questioning the motivation of the gift, because things (at least in their case) from their mother often come with strings attached.   The inconsistent behavior of their mother has been one of the toughest things for them (particularly younger daughter) to deal with.

Yes, absolutely Panda. You really hit the nail on the head. Her behavior messes with my hope and desire to have a normal, supportive mother. And of course my biggest hope that she has changed.

I agree with Notwendy, it may just be what she feels in the moment (no matter what the motivation is) and that is how I would accept it.  In this moment she feels this way, but in the next minute it will be something else.  You can't control what she does but you can control yourself and how you react, my advice is try to keep your expectations under control, don't try to figure out motivations and just see the gift at face value. Your mom gave you a birthday gift... .that's it... .not why did she give me the gift, what does she want from me, not wow! she's changed etc.  You can accept that gift or not that is also up to you.
[/quote]

I feel like such a different person when dealing with my mother. I am my weakest. I question things and play too much into the knowledge there is always another meta-message (or more) behind every message from her. But I need to work on just taking things for face-value. I am pretty adept at this with other people, but my mother is a special case. Thank you Panda though for your support. It really does help.

[zachira]

You say you feel like a different person when you are with your mother. You feel that you are at your weakest. I think it is natural to feel at your worst when you are with the person who was supposed to love you more than anything in the world and instead mistreated you. You may never have the kind of good emotional boundaries with your mother that you have with others who have not had the negative impact on your life that your mother has had on yours. Good emotional boundaries involve not taking on the destructive feelings of others, and nobody has good emotional boundaries all the time. I am working on acceptance with my family members with BPD and that helps most of the time to not be so impacted by their destructive behaviors. A few months ago I had an encounter with a man with whom I felt like I was at my worst and acted in immature ways like I had not acted in years. He also seemed to be acting at a very childlike level. This was when I was in one of the worst crisis with my family members with BPD. I have since seen this man again, though this time I made myself stay present in the moment, and I found both of us acting more mature, and I am left wondering how we both acted so badly the first time we met. Now I am thinking that my challenge is to be my best self with others, and that will also bring out the best in others, though with my family members with BPD their best selves will never be at the level that I would like. Just my thoughts, which may or may not be relevant. Keep us posted on how you are doing and how things turn out.