When we say goodbye she finds a way to "keep hope alive" in her mind

[Long_term_dad]

 In my situation, just when we say goodbye (we're divorcing as amicably as we can, but have many entanglements that require frequent cooperation) she finds a way to shift the conversation to "keep hope alive" in her mind.  I fear her emotional armageddon if I were to say a decisive affirmative NO to such soft overtures, and going NC isn't really an option given our entanglements (business stuff), and so have tried to be very gentle to ease myself out of a very toxic relationship.  We've gone from the plan of celebrating Thanksgiving apart (where the kids come to my place and then to hers) to her suggesting that we consider celebrating it together and - there's more - maybe celebrating Christmas AND her idea that maybe I accompany them on a vacation that she planned with the kids.  I don't want to be too hard about it but if I agree to celebrate any of these things (I for sure draw the line at not vacationing together) then I believe this divorce will keep getting kicked down the road and she'll interpret my soft boundaries as signals of interest.

Any ideas to help me through this?

[Panda39]

Hi Long_term_dad,

It sounds like you are experiencing some FOG (Fear, Obligation, Guilt) Fear that she won't play nice during the divorce, Obligation to do things with the kids as a "Family" when she is being so "reasonable", Guilt you are a bad dad because you don't want to participate in all of the joint events or you're mean for not wanting to do things her way. 
 
I think the first thing to figure out is what you want to do? Maybe think about why you want to do what you want to do?  FOG/Emotional Blackmail, good for the kids, because it's best for you, because it's what stbxw wants?

Everyone is different and so is every relationship, but to me I think you need to start setting some boundaries around these kinds of things, I also think you don't want to start a "tradition" that you may not want to continue in the future and that you find more difficult to break free of later on. (Like will you be taking your future girlfriend to Christmas with the kids and their mom?) To me you are divorcing and you should begin separating yourself from her otherwise you may find yourself divorced and still stuck "acting married".  Divorcing but "playing" couple sends mixed messages.

Others may disagree with me and I might disagree with me too if your stbxw wasn't BPD/BPD Traits.

Panda39

[Lucky Jim]

Nicely said, Panda39.  Agree, she is blurring the boundaries with a dose of F-O-G.  In my marriage, I often took the easy way out in order to keep the peace, when a few harsh words at the outset might have served me better.  Instead, I gave away too much emotional ground, which only made it that much worse for me down the line.

I don't want to be too hard about it but if I agree to celebrate any of these things (I for sure draw the line at not vacationing together) then I believe this divorce will keep getting kicked down the road and she'll interpret my soft boundaries as signals of interest.

Hey Ltd, I think you sense that you could be getting on thin ice.  Suggest you tread carefully and trust your gut feelings, which are usually telling us something!  I concur w/Panda that the place to start is with what YOU want to do, which can then be modified as necessary.

LuckyJim

[Mutt]

Hi Long_term_dad,

Everyone is different and so is every relationship, but to me I think you need to start setting some boundaries around these kinds of things, I also think you don't want to start a "tradition" that you may not want to continue in the future and that you find more difficult to break free of later on

I agree with Panda39 it may be s difficult habit to break ( floating boundaries, no boundaries ) but once that you really start it gets easier over time I don’t know about anyone else but I think a reason that i had s hard time with setting boundaries was because a) I was a people pleaser and b) i hated the blow back that I got when I set them.

It’s natural that you’re going to get some lashing out at the very beginning but it eventually that will stop.

Let me ask you this I don’t if you have someone in your life now or if you’re considering a r/s further down the road but let’s say that you have a new partner how do you think that might think? Is he over his ex is he still attached?

Your marriage is winding down it’s not easy on both parties a pwBPD don’t grieve like your or I they redirect that grieving through acting out and anger so you know that the person feels something.

You’re the more emotionally stable person between the two of you you’re going to have to lead and sometimes your treading through new territory that’s not easy. You can still be be nice but draw the line where you have to and shift your thoughts from her needs over to yours you’re not responsible obligated she’s going to be the stbx.

My ex did something like this we broke up in February and Easter was the next big holiday she wanted me to come to her friends house while her and the kids were there. We were going to have to get used to being two seperate individual families and I didn’t really care for the reasons why she was doing it she wanted me at arms length because their r/s with her affair partner was still new. There was uncertainty and she wanted to fallback on her exH if it didn’t work out they made the decision to be together then lay in your own bed.

I set the tone that first holiday and made it very clear that we’re not celebrating it together maybe in tens years time when there’s more time behind us the same thing happpens to people that we’re not with a person with a PD some divorces are more amicable. I don’t think that you need to worry about this coming up each and every holiday if you set the tone early and make it clear that this is not going to happen.

[Long_term_dad]

 Thank you Panda39 and others.  Your support means the world to me.  Your advice is sound and yes in my co-dependent way I am trying to be reasonable, and yes she's piping FOG into the conversations.  Sometimes it would be so much easier to be a non-reasonable d*ck but that's not me.  I am also referring to Chapter 10 of the Essential Family Guide to BPD which is helpful.

A note to anyone who happens on this message.  I have found great value i the Audible edition of the Eggshells books (and others) and I make copious use of the 'bookmark' feature, which allows me to replay ad infinitum the passages that are most valuable which I drive around.  I recommend this technique.

Thanks again!

[Panda39]

I'm gonna have to play around with the bookmark feature I've never tried it 

Panda39

[Harley Quinn]

Great suggestion Ltd!  I've never considered doing that.  

So have you come to a decision about the holidays?  The thing I always defer to when I consider any decision post break up with S4's father is the effect it will have on S4.  So imagine if you were to 'go along with something' to keep the peace initially and then you become stronger at setting boundaries and you no longer go along with said thing.  Would that not be confusing and potentially upsetting for your kids?  I think for children it's very important to understand the situation as it is from the outset.  Mum and dad are no longer together and we do things with each of them separately now.  Just to throw that out there and hopefully strengthen your resolve to make and stand by choices that are right for you and sustainable.  

Love and light x

[Mutt]

Sometimes it would be so much easier to be a non-reasonable d*ck but that's not me.

Keep taking the high road if you’re retaliating and matching the other person’s immaturity you’re attracting too much negative energy.

I make copious use of the 'bookmark' feature, which allows me to replay ad infinitum the passages that are most valuable which I drive around.  I recommend this technique.

Hmm that’s a really good idea.