My wife (udx/BPD step mom) says she doesn’t know if she loves my autiistic son or not?

[formflier]

https://youtu.be/5kaBIMuW74Q

Yep... .once the torpedo starts homing... .you've got to be careful.

FF

[Red5]

https://youtu.be/5kaBIMuW74Q

Yep... .once the torpedo starts homing... .you've got to be careful.

FF

Yeah, "don't watch the missile"... ."I TOLD you NOT to look!" https://www.you.tube.com/watch?v=nf8kBmMzr4I
Red5

[Red5]

Going back up to DK RD in about four and a half hours... .I am up and can’t sleep... .udx wife has been really great for about two weeks now... .guess I’m “on my game”... .

None of the previous dysregulations to include the letter were ever spoken of again... .two weeks and nothing “big”, just minor fllare ups... .all somewhat easily “handled”... .

She is on another treatment regime now, tomorrow’s appointment is a status check... .

I’d better try and get at least three hours of sleep, going to be a long day.

Please, I ask that Y’all keep her and me in your prayers, I’ll be sure to iou for y’all... .

There is more to tell, maybe tomorrow while I’m in the waiting room... .

 Night all, Red5,

[formflier]

Hey Red... .

Do her Dr's have this information?  Information in general about her behavior.

FF

[Cat Familiar]

Hope the appointment went as well as possible. Difficult for anybody to deal with a life threatening disease—must be stressful on steroids for a pwBPD—and for you, Red.   

[Red5]

Do her Dr's have this information?  Information in general about her behavior.

FF, no they don't... .although, when we were getting her treatments here locally, and not "north"... .during the process, there was an emotional dysregulation during the initial phase of that, and I think the hospital VP (XO), and the attending oncologist picked up on it, it was FOO related... .but that's ancient history now, as far as her primary (on-going current) oncologist (north), no; there is no attention given to it (her behaviors), she has masked it all... .not withstanding she is dealing with so much more when we go up there.

Hope the appointment went as well as possible. Difficult for anybody to deal with a life threatening disease—must be stressful on steroids for a pwBPD,

Thanks Cat, this appt. was a "status check", and labs... .to see how she is responding to this current protocol, she is currently stable, .one day at a time; most days anyway.

Red5

[formflier]

What would letting them know how she is "really" doing look like?

I'm wondering if anything good would come of that?  Certainly cancer treatment needs to take into account the "whole person".

Thoughts?

FF

[Red5]

*What would letting them know how she is "really" doing look like?

*I'm wondering if anything good would come of that?  

Thoughts?

Hmmm, .processing ~>

The time we (she) actually spends with her oncologist is inside of twenty minutes each appointment... .each time, its pretty much a "lets see where we're at" type of interaction, the treatment schedule, the scans/results, lab work... .what it shows, path forward, and then that is it.

Of interest, this happened the other evening,

My udx wife belongs to a support blog, where patients, and as well caregivers go to tell their stores, offer support, and to converse, which is a great thing, just like this site/blog, .so we are sitting there in the living room, I had built a fire in the fireplace, we were watching "Expedition Unknown"  ... .sipping some merlot, yes I had my mason jar... .she says to me,

"Red5, have you ever thought of seeing someone, someone to talk to, about what we are going through, with my C diagnoses"... .this peaked my attention, the RWR receiver sprang to life... .beep beep beep, .she continued, ."I think that you should, you told me a while back that you were going to, did you ever do that?"... .

I gave it a split second thought, and I chose a few words in response very carefully, and edited them in my mind before I spoke... ."yes, I agree with you, have you had the same thoughts, if so, and I as I have said before, I think its a good idea for you as well."

Then she tells me, "my regular doctor has told me that I should, and I tried it once, but it is so hard to find a good person to talk to"... .she continued... ."I want to find a good person"... .(she cant even say therapist, or psychiatrist)... ."find a good person to talk to, a Christian, maybe through the Church".

I say to her, ."yes, I agree, it is a journey, to find the right person that you are comfortable with"... .I asked for no other details.

She goes on, "I know that you are under a lot of pressure, dealing with both me, and S32(A)... .you run yourself raged, and I think it would be a good thing for you to find someone to talk to about all that is going on in our life"... .

... .yeah wow !

So I chose to use the "amnesty box"... .and I told her, "yes, I actually have found a person, and we have had one session, it was ok"... .she focused her eyes on me... .and for a moment I thought "oops", should not have done that... .

She responded, "how did you find this person"... .I know that OPSEC is in order, so I keep the details vague... ."I found him in Psychology Today "... .I chose him due to his perceived credentials, and professional history"... ."and I plan at some point to continue with him".

I then dropped a few CHAFF rounds... ."I think you need to find a woman to talk to, call her what you want to, a therapist, or psychiatrist, there is a distinct difference, I think you need someone, .yes a woman, who you can confide in outside of our Church, and not family, confidence and confidentiality is very important, you need a third person/opinion to vent things with, someone whom is not going to sugar coat, as I know I do with you when we talk about things"... .I meant her C dx, not BPD.

She has NEVER admitted that she is BPD, or any facsimile thereof, .nope, and I don't think it will ever happen, .this is my opinion.

But you never know, someone with the right skills, the right "enigma code book"... .a 'T' or 'P', may be able to crack her code... .

... .changing gears here'

I have been meaning to ask you a question FF, .I know that you have a 'P', does your wife know that you see this 'P' on regular basis, and if she does, does she ever ask for a post visit report?

I understand that it's none of the pw/BPD's business whether or not the 'Non' is seeing a 'P', or a 'T', and certainly not required to produce the "trip ticket" after a session, unless the Non wanted to... .just curious about your situation / relationship with your 'P'... .verses Mrs. FF.

... .ok, back to first gear... .

She continued her thoughts... .she says to me, "I read a lot of posts on my blog, from "caretakers" (yeah - WOW)... ."whom have gone the entire journey with their wives, or husbands, or whatever, .there is so much that they go through, I think you really should have someone to talk to, I have this blog, and a few other friends in the state, and "L" down in Florida, but you don't have anybody Red5, .and I worry about that for you, you have no one to talk to"... .of course she is speaking of C (dx)... .R-C-C to be specific.

I stared at Josh Gates hanging off the end of a rope on the TV... .and I got lost in thought for a few moments, and I responded to her, ."I love you, and I'm always going to be here for you"... .she smiled a little, and a few tears ran down her face... .she says to me, "I am scared, and you need to be prepared"... ."there are so many stories here (on the blog) about people telling their stories, its heart breaking"... .I reached for her hand, and said, "I'm scared too, but you are going to be just fine"... .

She seemed to calm a little bit, and let it drop, .and in a few moments; the subject was changed... .

hmmm, .interesting,

Red5

[formflier]

Red5,

Later today when I have more time... .I'll give you info about P.

I think you handled yourself well.  There were pauses... and then there was directness.

Here is the thing about bomb runs... .sometimes you jink a lot trying to avoid the flak... .sometimes you line up on your target... .and take what comes your way.

I'm going to suggest a target.  Then you go for it.

"Hey... thanks so much for being thoughtful about my needs as we go through this cancer journey together.  It means a lot to me.  If this is something you want to be part of... .I'm open to it.  Perhaps we read the blog together.  It seems important to you, so it's important to me."


Something like that... .

Thoughts?

FF

[Cat Familiar]

Red, that was awesome for both of you. You did good. 

[formflier]

Get some popcorn and settle in for the "P" story.

So... .years ago FF dealt with PTSD.  As part of that process I made a promise to my wife that if she was concerned about it ever returning... .we'd go check things input together.  No debating... .professionals would decide it.  (note... .it was to give her comfort and remove her from decision process... .so it wouldn't be debated)

Anyway... .we move and are now close to her FOO.  That was a lot rockier transition... that I figured it would be.  She started projecting a lot.  Demanded I "go see someone".  I called a prior PhD type that worked with us in family counseling... and he talked me through finding a good P. 

PhD and lots of experience.  He stressed I needed a "been there... done that" kinda person.  There were two people that came up in my search, one was at the VA... .and I had been there and done that... didn't want to deal with that process anymore.

So... .we go to the other one.  Well... my wife dramatically acted out my attempt to murder her with a sex toy.  We had a couple joint sessions... then my wife was erratic in going.

Then my wife decided P was bad.  Demanded I stop.  Then my wife went a few more times and had some one on one sessions.

Then... she decided P was no only bad... but wasn't a Christian.

The good news is P spent enough time with FFw so that I will describe a situation and P will then say... .I  bet FFw did/said... .xyz. 

It's scary how accurate she is. 

Then we role play and she explains "what is really going on".  What role I can play... .what role I should stay away from.

To your question... my wife doesn't talk much about her now.  When she would talk about her, accuse... whatever.  I would limit my response to setting up an appointment to chat with P as a group.  Wife doesn't want that... .so conversation over.

I'm a religious guy... .I don't think that things are by chance.  My P use to be married to and had a child with a person that was paranoid. 

How's that for a blessing? 

Um... .did I answer all the questions?

FF

[GaGrl]

Red, do you think your wife is, perhaps for the first time, processing the reality of what lies ahead for her?

[Red5]

Cat writes / Red, that was awesome for both of you. You did good.

Thanks Cat, ."steady as she goes"... .

FF writes / To your question... my wife doesn't talk much about her now.  When she would talk about her, accuse... whatever.  I would limit my response to setting up an appointment to chat with P as a group.  Wife doesn't want that... .so conversation over.

I'm a religious guy... .I don't think that things are by chance.  My P use to be married to and had a child with a person that was paranoid.  

How's that for a blessing?  

Um... .did I answer all the questions?

Hey FF!, .yes; you answered my question(s)... .so your 'P' is a woman... .that's interesting, this may sound silly, but I would (I do) feel more comfortable with a man 'T' than a woman 'T'... .this may say something about my "psyche"... . !... .from what you have shared, it sounds to me that Mrs. FF is a little hostile, or as you say "paranoid" towards your 'P'... .do you think this is a true statement?

This must create a little angst from time to time, as you relate.

When myself and Mrs. Red5 went to see a MC many years ago, while we were separated, only six months after getting married, this MC was a woman... .to this day, if the subject ever comes up (digging up bones)... .my udx wife will say... ."you did not listen to her"... .from what I remember; the MC cautioned udx wife that she needed to stay out of... .and to not insert herself; into issues between myself and my three (at that time) teenagers, .I have read a few books since ; years ago now, in regards to "blended marriages", ie' I have three kids living with me, and we got married, and she moved in... .trouble !... .the MC related to us that she herself had married into a "blended family"... and that she had learnt to not become entangled in the starboard side of parenting so to speak... .of course udx wife does not remember this, or else has re-written the entire history of the events.

I'm a religious guy... .I don't think that things are by chance.

... .Me2!

Gagrt writes / Red, do you think your wife is, perhaps for the first time, processing the reality of what lies ahead for her?

I do, .she has had more periods of calm here of late... .maybe its me adjusting (continually) my own reactions to her, ie' daily caretaker role(s)... .her foo continues to emit non-stop drama... .so I think between that, and her own medical conditions, the heat is off of me... .but the holidays approach... .which trigger, so I have to be on my game, and I have to beware the comfort zone... .after so many years of this, it is quite exhausting... .but at least I have lots of operational experience under my belt, so I am able to anticipate, and disarm most of the behaviors before the ever become "hot".

Red5

[formflier]

My P is older. 

Honestly... .I don't know exactly how old she is.  Semi-retired is how she brands herself.  60s is the decade and I'm thinking she is in the middle.

My P reminds me of my Grandma in many ways.   She had the ability to give you milk and cookies and explain things directly... .sometimes hard things, yet you kinda knew it was going to be ok.

Not sure if I would say "paranoid" about my P.  She is definitely "perplexed" that she has no influence on the relationship.

She also kinda gets that she "started it"... .

I don't hide when I need to drop things off or go see P.  I don't promote it either.  So when it comes up in conversation... I just say it and move on.  It's been a long time since wife has drilled for details.

She knows I'll offer for her to "come in" and we can talk about it together. 


FF

[Red5]

My P is older.

 
My 'T' is also older than me, .I'm on the high side of fifty-two... .he reminds me of a wise uncle I used to have,

My P reminds me of my Grandma in many ways.   She had the ability to give you milk and cookies and explain things directly... .sometimes hard things, yet you kinda knew it was going to be ok.

I was raised by me Grandparents, both products of the depression... .now that I am older and wiser ()... .I wish I could sit down with them both back home at the kitchen table and have a conversation... .about life, God, relationships, and the world in general... .I know what you mean 

Not sure if I would say "paranoid" about my P.  She is definitely "perplexed" that she has no influence on the relationship.

My udx/w had no idea I was seeing my 'T', until the aforementioned conversation during October... .I want that to be for me, .things being what they are, .I cannot imagine a time when I would want her to "accompany"... .no, that's mine... .

I don't hide when I need to drop things off or go see P.  I don't promote it either.  So when it comes up in conversation... I just say it and move on.  It's been a long time since wife has drilled for details.

Funny, she has gone at least one time to see a 'T' or a 'P'... .at least once; and I/m not asking... .she sought one out at her local physicians urgence... .I don't know which, a T or P... .during our October conversation that came out... .and I am all for it, .and I also do not want to be part of it either... .not the way things are between us... .I would have to do some "mental preparation" if she wanted me to accompany her... .nope, not on my radar right now... .I guess I know her now all to well... .eleven years downrange?

She knows I'll offer for her to "come in" and we can talk about it together. 

Nope, not me... .don't want to know... .and likewise for me.

Red5

[formflier]

In my case my wife was the one wanting me to find a T and participate.  She was engaged for a while and then wanted to quit... then came back... quit... .etc etc.

She wanted me to follow her in her cycles of pulling away and going back... .I stayed steady.

She does the same cycle (go for it then pull away... then re-engage... then quit)with church and other things, so it's much easier not to take things personally.

FF

[Red5]

Here we go again... .

A horrible twenty four hours,

Have to say, as usual; things have been some what ok for a few weeks now... .little flare ups as usually “price of doing buisiness”... .part and parcel in a BPD relationship,

But yesterday... .one of our beloved and precious elderly  puppies passed away... .hearts broken... .anguish and crying... .a long day... .

A real bad day but things were somewhat normal ?

Then this morning... .I get up, it’s my day off, wake up the boy, get him into his morning routine... .and I go make my own head call, then I’m in the kitchen cleaning up, she’s is up now, and I hear her go to his bathroom... .uh oh’... .she knocks on his door, he’s been in there now about 15 minutes... .then she unlocks the door, and I can hear her trying to get him to hurry up... .

Then it happens, I hear a little scuffle, my heart sinks, I put down my dish towel and the pan I’m drying and intercede... .

It’s bad... .S32 autistic has gotten angry at being intruded upon  ... .he gave her a mean face and raised his fist to her, she slapped his hand, he pinched her back, then she closed fist whacks him on the side of his head three times... .I grab him away and push him into his room, and yell at her to GO AWAY!... .

I am furious... .a huge fight starts... .she goes into the kitchen and starts slamming things around, dumps out our freshly brewed coffee, I investigate all the racket... .I see what she is doing... .raging... .I tell her to go away and to calm down... .she gets into my face... .I try to calm  down... .I go onto the back porch... .then I realize I have to guard my son, I go back into the living room, she’s in my face again... .I go into the kitchen again... .the cabinet door is open... .I slam it shut, it shatters in my hand... .she picks up a glass and threatens to smash it... .I take it away, things are off the rails now... .I have to physically restrain her from breaking up the entire kitchen... .

Long morning... .this all before zero seven thirty... .

As I’m later leaving to take son to his day program... .he tells her that he loves her ; (  she responds NO!... .stay away from me... .

As I leave she says she is moving out!

I say ‘ok, that’s fine’... .

Been riding around all morning... .now sitting at the boat ramp watching the seagulls... .

I want to scream !&!

Enough is enough... .

Thoughts ?     ... .

After ALL we’ve been through... .ain’t learned $hit... .

I knew that what transpired yesterday would most likely than not trigger BPD again... .but... .wow... .really ?

UGH !

Red5

[Enabler]

Dude, sorry to read this latest addition. Explosive arguments like this are not pretty and people rarely think clearly enough to make a good call on how to defuse rather than exacerbate the chaos. We enter fight or flight mode, do what we need to to protect people and somewhat the rest is the rest. In this case your wife seems to be 'the rest'. I can understand you being pumped up and the cabinet door took the punishment.

Neither of your adult children (W and Autistic S) are emotionally capable of understanding each other or in some sense learning how to 'deal' with the other. Your W hasn't the emotional weaponry to handle her own frustrations nor deal with the fact that S is not capable of 'learning' his way out of this repeated cycle of shower time chaos.

I think you're doing the right thing parking up, laying low and staying out of things. I sense from previous posts that you're likely very indifferent of the idea of her moving out in any case and I have a sense you feel life will be more rewarding should that happen. Returning to the home with her there before the afternoon isn't likely long enough to allow the dust to settle, so maybe find something calming to do this morning.

In some respects this is a known reality if that makes sense. This cycle has repeated itself so many times before in similar ways. My guess is you know how this is going to play out in the next 24/48 hours as part of the ever predictable cycle. The choice then comes, do I address the event head on, or do you accept that it was an event and work out how you may avoid it happening in the future?

What would either option look like?

As ever, we're here for you xx

Enabler

[Red5]

You are spot on Enabler in your synopsis of this mornings events in my home.

I knew it was coming - she is very predictable to me after all these years - if she leaves, I’d be better off... .

And yes, my threads read like a stuck recording don’t they... .

It is what it is, had this conversation with myself and as well you and many others here on this board many many times... .

What does either option look like?... .well, as I said... .if she does leave, I’d welcome it... .sad to say but that’s the honest truth.

Do I confront the event, .would do no good... .past history tells me it won’t ever matter.

Do I use this latest event to conjure yet more tools/contegency options... .at this point, it seems to me that it has reached yet another “straw”... .how many times will this occur again, I know the answer... .

... .“steady as she goes”... .

With each event... .as it happens, and after the “unpack” of the event, I more and more take her at her words, even said during the dysregulation... .and I feel myself slipping ever further into apathetic simmering and dull anger towards her... .like a persistent headache that just won’t go away or abate... .

It’s a pretty day here, S32 autistic is in his program till fourteen hundred... .don’t want to go back home... .and to think, how many times has this exact same senario played out over the last half dozen years... .

Yes, even though I feel the f-o-g... .due to her ‘c’ diagnoses... .enough is enough... .she is a big girl... .she is quite capable of taking care of herself.
 
Will she really move out?; hard to really say... .she ask me if I’d help her this morning and I said you know I will... .then she said something about me needing to figure out the furniture ... .

She can have it all, I really don’t care... .that’s how far I am willing to reach for peace in my life... .yes the thought of her being all set up in her own place... .away from me... .cut off from me... . I think that’s a good thing, I’m just too worn out with all of this... .

The very thought of an empty home, devoid of furniture, furnishings... .even the pictures gone from the walls... .empty rooms, bare floors... .that seems strangely appealing to me, it has the feeling of final freedom to me... .another life lesson learnt the hard way... .

Yes, I’m ready to go back there again, .not the first time for me.

We’ll see, as you say Enabler... .quite predictable .

Red5

[Enabler]

It's really really tough to sit there in a moment of emotion (puppy dying) to think... ."I'm sad about this, if I'm sad about this then W will be sad about this and bad things happen when W is sad about stuff... .what do I need to do to protect everyone in my moment of sadness?" That really feels like the only way to be on your toes enough to head off bad things happening.

In reality after she's back to base line do you think the moving out talk will continue?

[formflier]

Red5,

Have you ever called the authorities on her?

Sadly... .we know there will be a next time.  It won't be the same... but something similar.

Play the long game here.  Who are you really protecting?  (you said it... .but it's important to remember).

When stuff like this happens... .I think it's important for you to click record on your phone.  Move you son to safety... .perhaps stay with him... and call the authorities. (911)

Said/asked another way.  Who has a better chance of de-escalating... .you or cops?

Obviously... .your wife needs more help than she is getting now (even though she likely wouldn't agree).  Would "proof" of this and/or police involvement be more or less likely to get her additional services... .compared to Red 5 sending the doctor a note.

   

I'm sorry Red 5.  Doing the right thing doesn't always make a Marine popular.  I know you know that... .sometimes saying it out-loud helps a leader sort through things better.

FF

[Red5]

Another BPD’ism as you describe Enabler... .yes, “when do I get to cry”... .we all loved her... .she was a fifteen year old yorkie... .my little buddy... .and to top it all off, I was as supportive as humanly possible all day yesterday... .even her foo mum was included... .so/ so much for all of uBPDw’s angst against foo mum... .

Yeah, .as you describe, I’ve come quite adept at anticipating the BPD’ism’s... .as in “never ever let your guard down”... .and that’s pretty sad... .the very person whom you are comforting and supporting (she was her dog)... .this same person is going to come after you, because “they can’t process”... .

Do I think she will follow through, .no I don’t... .she has done this now countless times... .and she is very consistant as I’ve said.

November is a trigger month for her, her first husband supposedly told her he was going to divorce her on Thanksgiving Day, .her foo dad passed on the evening, early morning after another Thanksgiving, her younger brother also passed in this month years ago as well... .  and now; her beloved yorkie has also left her... .in this month... .

December is also a huge trigger for her... .the stories I could tell... .

“Reality”... .back to base, .I have a little theory about that, I think that her base/default is what I see now, anything “higher” a in “nice”... .that’s only temporary... .as  it never lasts... .like a person on crutches... .trying to walk... .if the crutch ever fails then gravity takes over... .default... .the “switch” always fails in the o-f-f (BPD anger) position... .any other position is magnetically held only as long as the power is on... .or the crutch holds the person up... .

The thing that’s different.now... .is that I’ve come to recognize the pattern... .it’s always the same... .consistant and predictable... .

How do I break this cycle... .that’s the question !

Red5

[empath]

Red, does your son have bruising from the altercation this morning? Since he is a "vulnerable adult", there are most likely legal implications.  It's hard to do the right thing, sometimes.

When things like this happen, it's hard to know in the moment what happened to cause such a derailment.

[Red5]

I hear you FF,

Calling the sheriff... .yeeeash !

I have to say however... .as I was physically holding her back from smashing things in the kitchen this morning... .that thought did cross my mind... .but I didn’t do it... .

But I did threaten to call her daughter (age 33 and an RN)... .I got her answering service... .  but here is the catch, I said... .“can you call me back when you can, your mother is having another rage, I need some help” and I pushed what I thought was the hang up button, but it didn’t stop recording... .it went on for about three minutes... .so there is now a recording... .

As we recall in Red5’s broken record life, the recent Godzilla septic tank rampage of which her daughter and H were witness too during a recent visit... .

Hmmm,

Yeah,

Yes, I am listening FF, tough day... .

Red5

[Red5]

Red, does your son have bruising from the altercation this morning? Since he is a "vulnerable adult", there are most likely legal implications.  It's hard to do the right thing, sometimes.

When things like this happen, it's hard to know in the moment what happened to cause such a derailment.

Yes he does, on his right forehead... .and she has a bruise on her inner arm where he pinched her... .

I want to cry... .this is completely unacceptable... .and sadly not the first time... .

My son is just a big toddler mentally... .about age 6-7 in a 33 year old body... .

This can’t happen anymore
Red5

[empath]

I want to cry ... .this is completely unacceptable ... .and sadly not the first time ... .

My son is just a big toddler mentally ... .about age 6-7 in a 33 year old body... .

This can’t happen anymore

Yes, unacceptable and very upsetting. What can you do differently this time?

[Red5]

What can I do differently this time empath... .

Double... .Triple my situational awareness and take it to heart... .permanently / that uBPDw does not tolerate in any way my autistic son.

Of course this only continues to wear down any semblance of endearing “feelings” I ever had for uBPDw... .

Which does not bode well for any future / further fantasy that this eleven year - seven year marraige relationship has any chance of working... .

No, S33 autistic is my life responsibility... .period.

Can’t trust her... .not with him anymore... .I’m kidding myself otherwise... .

Damn... .

Red5
 

[empath]

What does not trusting her with him look like in practical terms?

[Red5]

What does not trusting her with him look like in practical terms?

This means that I cannot.trust her with any of his daily care.

Even leaving him alone with her for any amount of time,
*work travel
*during the day afternoon hours that I’m at work
*anytime I need to be absent for a few hours to a few days

No more... .she has continuously proven that she will lose her temper with him, and he is utterly helpless when this occurs.

Red5

[Cat Familiar]

I'm so sorry, Red. This totally sucks! And I'm very sorry about the loss of your precious doggy pal.   

Cat