Lost but trying to hold on

[Elle16]

Hello. This is my first post and I am not exactly sure where to start... .

My husband and I have been married for 16 years. We were together for 11 years, separated for 2, and have been back together for the last 3. He is a great guy with Bipolar I and BPD. When he is having a good day he is charming, witty, and fun to be around. Unfortunately, it seems that the more time passes, the less often he has good days. 

My current frustration stems from the fact that I have to all but force him to take care of himself. He stopped going to see his therapist and taking his medication over a year ago. He drinks to self medicate and, whether he realizes this or not, that makes his bad days worse. I did manage to get him to make an appointment to go back and see his therapist but I know this isn't going to immediately make things better. These things take time.

The last really bad day he had was 2 days ago. On top of the mental health concerns, he also has started having physical problems from long-term heavy drinking. So after sitting around worrying about his physical health all day he decided that it was a good idea to go buy a six-pack and a bottle of whiskey because 'he may not be able to drink much longer', his words. The combination of, his seemingly always present depression, his resentment and anger about the 2 years that we were separated, his worry about his health, the booze, and me voicing my concerns about what would happen if he didn't quit drinking, were a recipe for disaster. Before the night was over, I was told that all of his mental and emotional pain and hang ups are my fault. That he knew that he had problems before me but I had made everything in his life worse. And that I needed to find a way to fix it because he deserved that much.
When he gets like this I get quiet. I learned long ago that responding in ANY way just gives him ammunition to use against me. (He is also one of the smartest people that I know. Giving him extra ammunition is a bad idea) The problem with this is that when I don't give him the answers that he demands he tells me that I don't care about him, because if I did I would have something to say. It is the impossible situation or a classic Catch 22.

Now, it's 2 days later and my feelings are still so hurt that I have a hard time being in the same room with him, much less being the supportive and understanding wife that he needs me to be.

Is there something that I could be doing differently that would makes things better or is this as good as it gets? I am tired and running our of 'want to' as of late.

I keep reminding myself that he is sick and didn't ask to be this way. At the same time, if he doesn't want to get better there isn't anything I can do, but the idea of giving up for good isn't one that I can get behind right now.

If anyone has anything to share that you think could be helpful I would appreciate it.

[RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING]

RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members are welcomed to express frustration but must seek constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[Inquisitive1]

Wow! That's a really difficult situation. Similar in some way to where I used to be with my wife. I strongly encourage you to look at some of the techniques described on this site. Read about FOG and SET and using validation. These can really help you manage the situation and make it better (They helped me).

While applying those techniques should improve things, the drinking seems like a real problem to me. You should also read about boundaries. Boudaries are observable by you, and action related to boundaries is must be in your control. I don't want you to drink is not a boundary. If you drink, i'll do ____ is a boundary. If the drinking is too severe, you might have to leave him. Where is that line? My wife struggled with drinking for years. I finally set a boundary that she had to quit or I would leave. That helped her quit. You're boundary doesn't have to be just like mine, but I do think you need to start figuring out where your boundaries are.

[schwing]

Hi Elle16 and

I understand that you want to find ways/strategies to improve/better your relationship with you BPD loved one and will try to give you some advice in this regard.  I also want to share with you my understanding of the limitations for people with BPD (pwBPD) so that when you choose to stay with your BPD spouse, you are making this choice from a position of knowledge (and possibly acceptance).

My current frustration stems from the fact that I have to all but force him to take care of himself. He stopped going to see his therapist and taking his medication over a year ago. He drinks to self medicate and, whether he realizes this or not, that makes his bad days worse. I did manage to get him to make an appointment to go back and see his therapist but I know this isn't going to immediately make things better. These things take time.

People with BPD (pwBPD) are impulsive and have constantly changing emotions (good and bad).  You recognize that he is drinking to self-medicate.  And you can also see that he is inclining to choose *not* to see his therapist.  It might be helpful for you to understand that pwBPD also exhibit "splitting behaviors" also know as black and white thinking.  Whereas for someone who does not have BPD, therapy can be (more) immediately rewarding, for pwBPD however, just the consideration that they have the need to seek therapy can be a great source of distress.

It's as if they "split" themselves black, when they admit a need for help.  They might believe that if something is wrong with them, then "everything" is wrong with them.  This is also why many pwBPD, refuse to admit fault no matter how obvious or small that fault is; it may cause them to devalue themselves greatly.

I think it may also be helpful for you to reconsider your expectations on how therapy for your BPD spouse will proceed.  Seeing a therapist might not "immediately make things better," but they might make things worse for him if he is confronted with the knowledge of something about himself (or his disorder) that he is not yet ready or equipped to handle.  It may be more realistic to compare therapy for BPD to recovery (i.e. Alcoholics Anonymous).  Sometimes you fall off the wagon, and hopefully you get back on.

Considering the level of drinking he is exhibiting (as you describe it), it might not be a bad idea for you to consider getting support at a local Alanon.

Before the night was over, I was told that all of his mental and emotional pain and hang ups are my fault. That he knew that he had problems before me but I had made everything in his life worse. And that I needed to find a way to fix it because he deserved that much.

You might consider, that there is some truth in what he is saying.  Not that you are directly causing his mental and emotional pain, but rather indirectly and inadvertently.  I believe that the nature of intimate and familial interpersonal relationships can be a consistent trigger for people with BPD.  My observation of pwBPD is that feelings of closeness/familiarity seem to also strongly trigger for their fears of abandonment.  It is as though, the closer they feel towards you, the more they depend on you, then causes them to fear and believe that you intend to abandon/betray them.  This is why I believe many pwBPD seem to act out on occasions that are emotionally significant.  Note, that this fear is not based in reality but it is very real to pwBPD.  And when the emotions become strong enough, their emotions override their rational thinking.

In my experience, it is best to maintain (emotional) distance and to cultivate almost formal interactions in order to minimize the occasions when their disordered emotions flare up.  The hard part is to try to be as calm, consistent and supportive as you can be, while at the same time tolerate all the occasions when they are the opposite.  For some people, this may not be the kind of relationship they signed up for.

When he gets like this I get quiet. I learned long ago that responding in ANY way just gives him ammunition to use against me. (He is also one of the smartest people that I know. Giving him extra ammunition is a bad idea) The problem with this is that when I don't give him the answers that he demands he tells me that I don't care about him, because if I did I would have something to say. It is the impossible situation or a classic Catch 22.

I know it is not fair to be accused of things that are not true.  However, you might consider that he is putting you in a catch-22 because he emotionally needs you to be the scapegoat.  He needs to believe that his disordered feelings are not "wrong," which is why when using SET (support empathy truth) we validate (acknowledge/accept) their emotions; even though the reasons why they believe they feel what they feel is contradicted by the "truth" we express.  He may or may not be ready to accept that his feelings are disordered.

I hope some of this helps.

Best wishes,

Schwing

[Radcliff]

Welcome!  You've gotten some great advice from Inquisitive1 and schwing.  I particularly liked schwing's Al-anon advice.  Sitting in a room full of people who have lived with an out-of-control person can be life changing.  There are meetings most nights of the week, just search on the Web.  A common theme between Al-anon and what we teach here is that we can only control our behavior and not anyone else's.  That's not just a trite saying.  It's wisdom that has stood the test of time.  I've spent an embarrassing amount of effort trying to get others to behave in a healthier way, and usually end up making things worse.

Take a look at this page on setting boundaries.  Do you see any opportunities to set a boundary in that fashion in order to protect yourself from some of what you are experiencing, or in order to reclaim some healthier things for yourself?

RC

p.s.  I realize that we may be suggesting a pretty major shift in your thinking, and anticipate that you might be skeptical.  I won't expect you to believe us right away, but stick around and talk it through with us.  You'll be glad you did!

[Elle16]

Hello again.  I have spent the last couple of days reading and rereading the replies and advice that I have gotten (thank you to Inquisitive1, schwing, and Radcliff).  I am starting to realize how very wrong I have handled so many of the situations with my BPD husband.  I thought that I was helping by trying to avoid conflict and by not doing the things that upset/trigger him.  Now, I realize that I have made it so that he thinks that it is okay to make me feel guilty about visiting friends or being 30 mins late getting home from work. I also know that I am going to have to keep reminding myself that ultimately the only thing I can change is myself.

All that being said, I am still struggling with where to start implementing boundaries.  I know that I want to have a good and happy relationship, but I also want to be able to return to being the version of myself that I like. I have always been a people person, I was a bartender for many years and I loved my job.  I quit bar tending and lost touch with many of my friends after we got back together 3 years ago.  He didn't like any of my friends.  I wasn't, and am not, happy about it but I was willing to do whatever I thought he needed me to do in order to make our marriage work. 
I bring up the bar tending example specifically because I have been offered another job tending bar at a different establishment but I hesitate to say yes because I know that it is going to set him off.  I have talked to him about it and the first time we talked he said that I should do it because he knew that it would make me happy.  The next time that it came up in conversation he told me that I was forcing him to relive the past and that was selfish of me.

I know that his feelings about any topic depend on his mood and mind set at that moment, but it is frustrating feeling like I can't make any plans because I never know who I am going to be dealing with.

I have read all of the suggested information on FOG, SET, and boundaries. I understand the concepts that they describe and am trying to do better when I talk to my husband, the SET information was very helpful.
So, I guess my next question is this... .do I take the new job and try to regain some control over my life or should I start with something smaller? I know that I am going to have to rock the boat, I just don't want to tip it over right off the bat.

Thank you for listening,
Elle16

[schwing]

Hi Elle16,

I am starting to realize how very wrong I have handled so many of the situations with my BPD husband.  I thought that I was helping by trying to avoid conflict and by not doing the things that upset/trigger him.  Now, I realize that I have made it so that he thinks that it is okay to make me feel guilty about visiting friends or being 30 mins late getting home from work. I also know that I am going to have to keep reminding myself that ultimately the only thing I can change is myself.

All that being said, I am still struggling with where to start implementing boundaries. 

Don't be hard on yourself.  It's not that you did something that gave him the wrong impression.  It's more like he has been conditioning you to take the path of least resistance.  And he has been using his behavior (consciously or unconsciously) to motivate you to act in that way that bests suits/accommodates him.

You'll see this more clearly when you try to implement boundaries.  If he doesn't like the boundary, he may act out in a way that will causes you to yield.  Pay attention when you respond to his behavior with feelings related to fear, obligation or guilt (F.O.G.); F.O.G. will blind you from seeing clearly.  It also may mean you're being manipulated (consciously or unconsciously). IMO, the final "boundary" that you should apply, if he chooses not to respect any other boundary you have set for yourself, should be one where you leave his presence; go somewhere where he is not, and he is not permitted to follow.  Basically let him cool off or reflect while you are not around.  Beware of "extinction burst" behavior.

I know that his feelings about any topic depend on his mood and mind set at that moment, but it is frustrating feeling like I can't make any plans because I never know who I am going to be dealing with.

Well... technically you can make whatever plans you would like. What you cannot control are his feelings.  And if you cannot control his feelings you should not take responsibility for his feelings, especially when they are not warranted.  He's going to blame you for his feelings whether or not you are the cause of them.  So I think you should just behave in a way that is considerate but firm that you are going to do what is right for you.  And if he feels badly for this that or the other reason, then that is regrettable and certainly not your intention, and you recognize that his feelings are real indeed.  But you're going to do what you're going to do.

I guarantee you, however, that he will not like it if you do not take responsibility for his feelings (which you cannot). 

So, I guess my next question is this... .do I take the new job and try to regain some control over my life or should I start with something smaller? I know that I am going to have to rock the boat, I just don't want to tip it over right off the bat.

I think if you take a new job, big or small, he may still perceive it (at some point, if not immediately) as if you are threatening to abandon him.  He may not state this out-right, but I expect all his behaviors to point to this common denominator.

Do you what you need to do.  You may or may not be rocking the boat, but the waves that come are completely outside of your control.

Best wishes,

Schwing

[Inquisitive1]

Do you two have children? That can change the balance.

One thing I found important in improving things with my wife was understanding that she doesn't have much control of her emotions. That made it easier for me to internally forgive her when she blasted me with anger or tears. That made it easier for me to be kind and supportive while maintaining barriers. (Which isn't to say I'm perfect, I let her get to me this weekend when I should have just been supportive. Heh, i do my best.)

As mentioned, when you start setting boundaries, his behavior may at times get worse before as he tries to manipulate you out of your boundary. So set boundaries that are really important for you and that you can stand by, because it will be critical for you to stick to your boundaries when under duress if its going to work.

Along those lines, I found it useful to think of worst case scenario--what boundary would require me to leave. I basically never spoke to her about this, I stuck to a supportive message of wanting to make it work, but I knew I had my boundary which helped me stick to smaller boundaries. 

The job... .If it's a unique, time-limited opportunity, that might weigh on the side of taking it. It does seem a bit like jumping in the deep end, but then again conditions are unlikely to ever be perfect for taking that or another job.

Maybe go back to his concerns about being forced to relive the past and use SET. I've definitely found it better to confront my wife's concerns and deal with the negative emotions up front, it's painful, but things go better in the long run--it builds trust. Before that conversation, think about your boundaries around this job. Are you going into the conversation with him trying to decide or have you decided? What could he say that would make you not take the job? A stance like, I really want to this job, and I'll do everything in my power to support you can be powerful.

Good luck, I1

[Radcliff]

Let me echo schwing's encouragement not to be hard on yourself.  I found this website after a couple of decades in a BPD relationship, so I bet you're ahead of me and many of us others.  It's great that you're hear, and there's plenty of time to improve things. 

Yes, ideally it would have been nice to start with smaller boundaries.  But unless this job is the kind that you're offered frequently (not many jobs are, so I suspect this one is not) you may decide to just go for it.

He mentioned reliving the past.  Can you tell us more about what his concerns are?  While his feelings are inherently valid, his views on what you should or should not do may or may not rest on reasonable concerns.  Can you tell us of any concerns he may have that some might consider reasonable (e.g. long commute, long hours on a different shift from him, you met an affair partner at work, etc.)?

Whether he simply has feelings or also has rational arguments, is there an opportunity for you to make him feel more thoroughly heard?

RC

[Elle16]

Do you two have children? That can change the balance.

Yes. Our boys are 18 and 12.  I can't tell you that I don't worry about what all of this is doing to them, because I do.  Our oldest actually moved in with my mom about a year and a half ago because he couldn't take the constant criticism and because I wouldn't let him jump in when he saw me getting upset. I have spent a great deal of time talking to my boys, explaining the situation, and trying to answer all of their questions. That seemed to help some, but I did finally talk them into going to therapy a couple of times just recently.  I think it has been more helpful to my youngest but his older brother did at least try it.  They are good boys and all of this is hard for me, as an adult with years of experience, to understand and deal with at times so I know that they have a hard time with it. 
And you are right Inquisitive1, they definitely changed the balance.  They are the biggest reason that my husband and I are back together now.  When my husband and I separated I was the one that left. I moved in with my mom and though the boys would come stay with me, they didn't like it. Their home was the place where their dad still lived. When their visits got to be less and less often I knew that I had to make a decision, they are hands down the most important thing in my world, so I decided that I would put every effort into making my marriage work in order to give them the home that they needed.

He mentioned reliving the past.  Can you tell us more about what his concerns are?  While his feelings are inherently valid, his views on what you should or should not do may or may not rest on reasonable concerns.  Can you tell us of any concerns he may have that some might consider reasonable (e.g. long commute, long hours on a different shift from him, you met an affair partner at work, etc.)?

Where to start... .
During the 2 years that we were separated we both dated other people. The difference here is that when we got back together I decided that those things did not matter more than my marriage and I chose to let them go.  He still sees me dating other people as me 'replacing him' (his words).  When he gets upset about this (I know that it will never stop coming up and I am still trying to make peace with that) I tell him the same things repeatedly because they are true 1)that I love him, that never changed for me 2)that I never 'replaced' him (I didn't introduce anyone that I dated to my children. I didn't live with anyone else.) and 3)I can not go back and change the past but if there is something that I can do in the here and now to make him feel better I absolutely will. I never dated anyone that I worked with but I did meet one of the men that I dated as a customer at my job. So, I do understand why some of this brings back some bad feelings for him and even though I want to be exasperated and maybe scream the paint off the walls, I do not (I know better, ). I also know that it will be the same no matter where I work. He has proven that to me in the past. If I work around any men he is going to have insecurities that flare up periodically. Most of the time I am pretty good at dealing with these things... .most of the time.
In a nut shell, he seems to be sure that if I go back to a job where I am around the general public that I am going to find someone new or better and I will leave him. He is wrong. But it does not matter how many times or different ways that I say this, he just won't believe me.
I understand that his fear of abandonment is real to him. I want to fix this for him so badly. I also know that isn't possible. So, if you have any suggestions of ways to help I am all ears.

Thank you again for listening and responding. It's a nice change to not feel completely alone in this.
Elle16

[Inquisitive1]

Do you need the job to put food on the table and save for retirement?

I'm starting to think you should continue to engage him on this topic. You want to support him, you love him. You understand his concerns. You need a job for reasons x, y, z. He's unlikely to ever be completely good with it, but at least you can prepare him and try to make it as good as possible.