mother has BPD

[cruiser23]

Hello everyone,

I just found this message board through the Walking on Eggshells book. My mom has BPD. I've known for a while, but it has gotten extremely bad lately. It's to the point that I have to just block her on my phone. I've never really known out to set boundaries or limit her, as she tries to have full control over me at all times (I'm 35, married, and really don't need my mom controlling me, it's not good for my marriage etc). I am hoping to find ways to cope, and ways to manage this, as well as some examples of setting boundaries and how to do that.

She's just completely irrational and when she's really bad, like she was this weekend, I just don't know what to do anymore.

I'm glad I found this!

[Harri]

Hi cruiser123 and welcome tot he board.  I am glad you found us. 

What sort of behaviors are causing you the most difficulty.  We can definitely help you with setting boundaries and knowing what to expect when you do.  It take time and practice but they do work.  We can also help you with some coping strategies.

The more specifics you share about your situation, the easier it will be to guid eyou.  In the meantime, I hope you settle in and read and jump into other threads as well as we can learn a lot from helping other people (plus it just feels good to know you are not alone and to help someone).

Hope to hear more from you soon.

[cruiser23]

Thanks! I didn't know how much to put in the initial post, as I didn't know the feel of the boards very well, as I couldn't see them. So I'm gonna just write out some things, I'm super new to this, so let me know if anything is too much or not right... .

So, there are a few things. One is that she has these episodes where she just flips out. We used to joke that it was "My week" to be in trouble with her, and it rotates from me, to my stepdad, to my brother, then back. Last weekend it was "my turn" although usually I can see what I did to "deserve" it (I don't deserve it but whatever). This week, it was completely unprovoked, and she started saying I was a bad person, a bad sister, a bad daughter and a bad doctor. Yes I'm a physician, but I'm not a psychiatrist and this is way out of my league. She started attacking my professionalism etc bc my brother got sick, and I couldn't fix him over the phone and didn't jump and run to go see him (he didn't need me, he needed to go to the ER, which I suggested). So she got stressed out and took it out on me. (he's fine btw). So I blocked her phone number this time because I couldn't take it anymore. So she then called my dad (they've been divorced for about 20 years) and started talking trash about me to him, as well. She has to always make me look like the worst person ever. I believe this is all called Splitting in the eggshells book. So that's the big issue this weekend, but there's been others.

She also hates my husband. Always has. Accused him of poisoning her when she came up and stayed with us once right after we got married. Then she always tells me I should be nice to her bc he will leave me someday but she will always be there to pick up the pieces. Then she told me she had a dream once that I was drowning and he didn't save me, so she came over to the house, accused me of recording her, then said she was going to shoot him, and she had my stepdad's gun out at home waiting to shoot him. (terrifying!). We had a family meeting afterwards, and she denied this saying it was a "misunderstanding" and never apologized to him or me. And then she always says whenever I don't want to do something with her, it's his fault (I just don't want to do something, it's not him!). She puts me in a terrible mood (I need to learn how to deal with this).

One of the big issues is that I work in one state, and live in another. I work in the state where my dad lives, so I see him the weeks I work, and I live 10 minutes from my mom, so I try to see her while I"m home. She will avoid me when I'm home saying she has to work, or has too much going on, then complains she never sees me when I'm leaving again. She will take a day off of work to attend a random wedding at church, but if I ask her to go to lunch with me, she refuses. I will make plans with her and she repeatedly cancels them, then she complains that I won't spend any "quality time" with her. when we do spend time together, she wants to run errands to the store where she buys stuff she doesn't need/won't use, then gets mad at me when I wont' buy a bunch of crap too.

She stores her excess stuff at our house, has done this for probably 15 years, so I have started going through it and throwing it away, and she loses her mind over it "that was my first blah blah" but if I ask her to take things back or tell her I don't want them, she gets super offended and upset by it... .like I'm rejecting her because I don't want her stupid old picture frames with no pictures in them that are falling apart!

We moved to this house, and bought it, 10 minutes from her against my husband's better judgement (totally regret it now, should have listened to him) but she said she would watch our dogs for us, while we go work and go on vacation. She loves the dogs, says she likes having them there, complains she doesn't have them enough. Then she gets them, watches them for us, and then complains that she has them too much, and we just see her as a dog sitter. (this really hurts my feelings, but I'm realizing it's part of her desperation/manipulation to get a rise out of me, bc any attention is attention after all... .)

She complains that I work too much, then complains that I'm home too much, then complains that I vacation too much, or that I don't vacation correctly "You have to be tired of cruising at this point, that's so boring you do the same thing all the time" but very nasty when she says it... .

She usually doesn't pick on my brother too much, as he has aspergers, still lives at home, and doesn't have a job "because he just can't handle that" (her words). She totally controls him, and he allows it because he doesn't have to work, gets to play on his computer 24/7 and she makes his food, and does his laundry, and is still "a mom" to him. She is furious because I suggested he get a job and lose some weight (he's morbidly obese) and become a productive member of society. She thinks I need to just take him in when she dies and keep his current lifestyle (which is ridiculous, he's disrespectful, loud doesn't clean, and I don't want to have him in my house if we have children).


Phew... .well that's some of it... .

[Harri]

Phew is right!  That is a lot of dysregulation to be dealing with.  I am so sorry.  It sounds very hurtful, frustrating and confusing. 

BTW, you did just fine sharing.  There really is no wrong way or too long of a post so no worries, but I do get feeling new.

It is good that you have read the eggshells book.  I think you are right that she is splitting.  It also sounds like she is doing some projection of her feelings as well.  pwBPPD (people with BPD) have difficulty managing their emotions, especially the 'negative' ones and will project them onto others as part of a defense mechanism.  It is rarely intentional or purposeful.  I happens on a subconscious level.  Regardless, it is very confusing and hurtful.  What helped me to cope with my mother was to remember that very little of what she said had anything to do with me.  When she was in her 'states' she could not even see me.

The other stuff you shared sounds very familiar.   Many of us have experienced similar so take comfort in the fact that you have found a place where you are not alone and we can support you as you navigate your way through to a better place with all of this. 

In addition to learning about some of the behaviors, like projection, learning about boundaries and how to set them and enforce them will help.  Are you familiar with them?  As you learn to set boundaries, learn communication tools and about the behaviors it will be easier to separate emotionally so that her behaviors do not have such a strong effect on you which will also help you with your own family.

We can help you with any of the above.

[cruiser23]

So boundaries are exactly why I am here. In the book it hits on how this feels like a negative word (I know it's not... .just like a fence actually gives my dog freedom to play in the backyard) I have no idea what I need to do to create boundaries. My mom and I just really don't have them.

I have started to not tell her EVERYTHING such as when I'm upset w my husband (I get over it, she never forgets it), our day to day struggles, etc... .I didn't tell her we were pregnant bc I was worried we would miscarry (which we did ) and then when I told her because I was hurting and wanted my mom, she got mad at me for not telling her about the baby before we lost it, so she never got to be excited about her grandkid (nevermind I was hurting and sad... .)

I refuse to friend her on FB, I feel like nothing good will come from that. We play pokemon (something she, my brother and I can all enjoy together) and she got mad because I turned off the feature that let you know which pokemon I just caught and how recently... .She accused me of keeping secrets and not telling her things.

So I just turned off text message notifications (so it doesn't make a noise when she texts me, because she will text up to 17 times in a row in a matter of a minute, while I'm at work) and when she went off this weekend I just blocked her all together.

I tried getting on her about changing/canceling our plans all the time, which she just gets snotty about now "I know I'm five minutes late, don't be mad at me" (that was never the issue).  I merely had suggested if we make plans for dinner, that when dinner time comes around, she actually still does it. I think she makes plans then cancels at the last minute because then she can say she didn't see me AND it keeps me from having plans with anyone else (She hates all our friends too).


I would love some examples of how to set boundaries with her... .  I definitely need help. My husband at this point doesn't ever want to see her again, and now that we aren't going to use her for dog sitting, it's going to cost us a fortune to get sitters for upcoming vacations, and it may be better to move to a cheaper cost of living city... .but if we do that I'm sure she will take it personally (and it kinda is her fault, honestly) and she will probably stop speaking to me all together (not what I want... .I love my mom, just not the psychotic version of her).

[Harri]

I am sorry.  I see where you said you are not good with boundaries with your mom and there I went asking you if you were familiar with them.  Yikes.  Can I blame it on my posting past my bedtime when most of my synapses are off-line?

You have already started setting boundaries and are doing a great job with not sharing the private details of your day to day happenings and not friending her on facebook and with the text messaging.  Excellent work there! 

Boundaries are about protecting us.  They are a reflection of our personal values.  Here is a site article with some examples of what I am talking about:  Setting Boundaries and Setting Limits

Boundaries are not about controlling another person but about changing how we choose to respond to boundary busting behaviors.  So not answering every text is excellent.

Sometimes when we set boundaries, there will be some push back.  There can be an increase in the very behavior that we are trying to stop.  Do not take that as a sign that the boundary is not working.  This push back, or extinction burst, is an expected reaction so stick with it.  Consistency with boundary enforcement is vital.  Intermittent reinforcement, or inconsistency with our boundaries, can result in a stronger pattern of negative behaviors.  Check out this thread for more on that:  BPD Behaviors:  Extinction Bursts Be sure to read the second post to read more about Intermittent Reinforcement.

I feel like I just issued some homework! haha  It is helpful to read the site articles to understand our approach to boundaries before we get very specific with how to help you, though I will say again that you seem to be on the right track.

(not what I want... .I love my mom, just not the psychotic version of her).

I understand.  Boundaries can help, as does learning about the behaviors and learning to use the relationship tools we offer here.  Boundaries and the tools help us and sometimes the relationship can improve so lets see what we can do here.

[cruiser23]

Harri,

Thank you! It's okay! I had written quite the book. I don't think I've ever written it down before, and it was kind of word vomit once I started... .things get lost! LOL no worries!

After I responded to your post, I did go to the Lessons and found the ones on boundaries and so I am reading through them now. I am finding I don't know how to define myself at all. I've never sat down and thought about it. Something my husband and I need to do together and separately.

Do you have any tips on how to let things roll off your skin? She quips nasty things to me (has my whole life) and for some reason, (probably I'm a bit codependent on her)  I take EVERYTHING she says to heart... .It spills over into my work (when a surgeon is nasty to me on the phone I take it super personally even though he's probably just having a bad day, doesn't want the work etc). At least I recognize now that the behavior/feeling of no self worth isn't good/normal!

thank you so much for all your help so far, this already has made me so much calmer that I'm not crazy and it's not me, and that also she doesn't mean it. Learning about the motivations behind this is fascinating and so sad at the same time.

[Harri]

I am finding I don't know how to define myself at all. I've never sat down and thought about it. Something my husband and I need to do together and separately.    Many of struggled with defining us, outside of our parents version of who we are.  Many have also struggled with figuring out our values.  I am still working on that.  Knowing my values, or maybe it would be more accurate to say being able to articulate my values clearly helps my boundaries to flow and reflect who I am, but I can still have boundaries without necessarily knowing my values, it just makes it harder to figure things out but it can still be done. 

Bubbles.  Visualizing myself protected by a bubble where my moms words and actions bounced off me and back to her helped a great deal.  It was a visualization of the projection she used on me.  Are you familiar with the defense of Projection?  It happens when a person is unable to tolerate their own negative feelings and in an effort to make they go away, they project or attribute them to another person.  It can be very confusing but the bubble method helped my while telling myself "this is projection" and reminding myself that when she (my mom) was projecting she was really telling me what was going on with her, giving me a glimpse of how she felt about herself.  So my go to recommendation for this sort of thing is bubbles and self-talk!  I don't know if you are a visual processor like me, but see if you can come p with something that will work for you. 

Not that I wasn't serious about the bubble protection method (!) but on a more serious note, understanding the behaviors and that they are all about the person engaging in them is a good place to start.  Boundaries will also help.  Self-differentitation is vital.  Knowing where you begin and end in relation to another person (how I view self -differentiation) is vital and something we miss out on when we grow up with a disordered parent.  Allow your mother to have her own emotions  and to be responsible for managing them.  Allow her to self soothe without fixing or rescuing her.  I used to tell myself "this is not my business" or, in my less charitable moments, "not my monkeys, not my circus" to keep myself out of her or others peoples stuff. 

thank you so much for all your help so far, this already has made me so much calmer that I'm not crazy and it's not me, and that also she doesn't mean it. Learning about the motivations behind this is fascinating and so sad at the same time.

I am glad you are feeling calmer and know you are not alone and are not crazy.  One caution, that i don't mean to bring you down, I just want to clarify.  I do believe that your mother does what she does as a result of her disorder and I do not believe it is always  intentional, deliberate, or premeditated.  I do however, believe that pwBPD have very dysfunctional coping skills, poor executive function and can be very hurtful and damaging.  I also believe they are responsible for their own behaviors as we all are and that often times the very best we can do is to detach with love.  Here is a great article that says this far better than I can: The Do's and Don'ts for a BPD relationship

This is a process cruiser23 so take things slow and just keep hanging out with us.  I am glad you are here.

[Kwamina]

Hi cruiser23

... .it was kind of word vomit once I started... .things get lost! LOL no worries!

Yes, losing vomit happens to the best of us

Do you have any tips on how to let things roll off your skin? She quips nasty things to me (has my whole life) and for some reason, (probably I'm a bit codependent on her)  I take EVERYTHING she says to heart... .It spills over into my work (when a surgeon is nasty to me on the phone I take it super personally even though he's probably just having a bad day, doesn't want the work etc). At least I recognize now that the behavior/feeling of no self worth isn't good/normal!  

Do you perhaps feel like that after all those years of hearing your mother's negative remarks about you, that you started to internalize her negativity and in a way maybe started to believe her words and/or question yourself?

When your mother is not around, do you perhaps notice that even then you find yourself dealing with an inner critic, an internalized negative voice bringing you down?

When your mother or a surgeon or anyone else is being nasty to you, that more often than not likely says way more about them than about you. Projection is indeed something people with BPD do, not necessarily consciously though and indeed the intent isn't necessarily to inflict so much pain, even though that still might very well be the result of their actions. Even when people are upset, directing those feelings at another by being nasty as you put it, does not justify their behavior.

Your mother's negative remarks are a reflection of her own inner turmoil, negativity and insecurities which she is projecting onto you and do not reflect the 'real you at all. Her behavior stems from her disorder, her distorted thinking and perception. Still, after having lived through this for so long, I can understand why you are having trouble defining yourself. Learning how to set and enforce/defend boundaries is a crucial step in our healing and I'm glad you've come here to do the work

Take care

The Board Parrot

[Panda39]

Hi cruiser23,

Welcome to the group 

Okay so the vomit comment gave me a chuckle, I would bet all of us when we arrived here did much the same thing.  It's such a relief to find people that understand... .that get it. It's so nice to be heard.

She also hates my husband. Always has. Accused him of poisoning her when she came up and stayed with us once right after we got married. Then she always tells me I should be nice to her bc he will leave me someday but she will always be there to pick up the pieces. Then she told me she had a dream once that I was drowning and he didn't save me, so she came over to the house, accused me of recording her, then said she was going to shoot him, and she had my stepdad's gun out at home waiting to shoot him. (terrifying!). We had a family meeting afterwards, and she denied this saying it was a "misunderstanding" and never apologized to him or me. And then she always says whenever I don't want to do something with her, it's his fault (I just don't want to do something, it's not him!). She puts me in a terrible mood (I need to learn how to deal with this).

BPD parents often create dysfunctional relationships with their children.  With fear of abandonment at the heart of BPD, there can be enmeshment and the child can become an extension of their parent.  As  a child grows more independent (which is completely normal) there is likely more conflict as the child separates and becomes an adult.  The average parent for example may have a hard time sending their child off to college, but the healthy parent knows that is the next step in development and encourages the independence.  A BPD parent unfortunately not so much, I've seen the children of controlling BPDmoms here that "have to" return home every weekend, or talk to their mom several times a day etc.  Mom in her dysfunction can't separate and will try desperately to stay overly involved in their child's life. 

More on emotional incest (enmeshment)... .
https://bpdfamily.com/content/was-part-your-childhood-deprived-emotional-incest

When that child gets married, and has children, those people now become competition with her for her child's attention.  You can find your friends fall in this category too and so can your job, anything in your life that takes your sole focus off of mom.  Those other people/things are taking your time away from her trigger her fear of abandonment. 

So your mom is extremely jealous of your husband, and she is projecting her fears on to you regarding his leaving you... .fear of abandonment is her issue that is not an issue you have with your husband.

Your mom's fear of abandonment is not yours to fix, her feelings are her feelings, and they are hers to manage.  Frankly, you could spend 24/7 with her and it likely still wouldn't be enough.

One tool that can be helpful here is validation.  Validation in terms of her feelings, this is not about validating bad behaviors we do not want to validate the invalid.  But what might that feeling be behind the acting out?

More on validation... .
https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=81442.0
https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=124001.0

I will make plans with her and she repeatedly cancels them, then she complains that I won't spend any "quality time" with her. when we do spend time together, she wants to run errands to the store where she buys stuff she doesn't need/won't use, then gets mad at me when I wont' buy a bunch of crap too.

The canceling plans is on her.  Guilting you for not spending time with her when she cancels is likely again projecting her own feelings on to you. 

And the shopping thing, I recognize that my SO's uBPDxw does that too.  I think it's like self medicating... .it feels good to buy things.  In my SO's uBPDxw's case I think the shopping in part was about being the customer and being served (getting attention), it was also about covering shame (having all of the latest and greatest like everyone else), keeping up appearances (See look our family is so great and so happy and so perfect), and it can also be about blackmail (I'll get you what you want if you do what I want) or being indebted (I got you xyz thing and now you owe me).  Who knew shopping could be such a loaded activity 

She stores her excess stuff at our house, has done this for probably 15 years, so I have started going through it and throwing it away, and she loses her mind over it "that was my first blah blah" but if I ask her to take things back or tell her I don't want them, she gets super offended and upset by it... .like I'm rejecting her because I don't want her stupid old picture frames with no pictures in them that are falling apart!

Okay so are you sure your mom isn't my SO's ex-wife?  His ex also did this. You know how the sock monster eats the socks and you have one with no mate... .They had to keep the mateless socks... .dozens of them.  If he tried to throw anything away he had to smuggle it out of the house and she would still check the trash and pull things out of the trash on the curb!  Her mom passed away and she kept her mother's entire wardrobe for 10 years!  Not just a special outfit that had significance but her entire wardrobe.  Did she wear any of the clothes, no, did she pass something on to her daughters, no, but she had to keep them. Boxes of these clothes filled their bedroom.  By the end of the marriage the house was like an episode of hoarders.

So you were looking for a place to have a boundary, I've got two suggestions... .

Something around shopping with your mom and something around storing her junk... .I mean stuff   at your house.

The shopping... .
A boundary could be to not go shopping with her any more at all, or it might be that you go once a month instead of several times, or it could be that you spend a shorter amount of time actually shopping (sure mom I'll go shopping but it will have to be quick I've only got an hour I have to... .).  I also want to point out that you already have a boundary in place with this and that is you will not buy something that you don't need.

When we think about boundaries it's about our values.  So in this case... .

Your "Value" is to not waste money on something you don't want or need.
Your "Boundary" is I will not buy something I don't want or need.
Your "Action" is to enforce that boundary by not buy something you don't want or need.

Storing Stuff at your house... .
You can refuse to take more stuff going forward.  You could set a time limit on how long you keep the things you already have and give her the choice to retrieve the item(s) or you will throw them away.  You could give her the choice of collecting her things or you will move them to a storage facility and you will pay the first months fees but after that it is her responsibility (if a storage unit goes unpaid they will auction off the contents)

Just some ideas.

She complains that I work too much, then complains that I'm home too much, then complains that I vacation too much, or that I don't vacation correctly "You have to be tired of cruising at this point, that's so boring you do the same thing all the time" but very nasty when she says it... .

Can you see that under all of this she is complaining because she doesn't see you as much as she wants to.  You're at work not with/focused on her, you're at home not with/focused on her, you are on vacation not with/focused on her.  That cruise is boring stay home and be with/focus on me!  It's not just complaining it's pressure and it's subtle... .but it's pressure to spend time with her.  We call this FOG (Fear, Obligation, Guilt) or emotional blackmail. In her complaining I hear Obligation and Guilt... .I'm your mother you have an obligation to spend your every waking moment with me and when you don't I'm going to make you feel bad about it.  This stuff is very subtle and others most likely don't see it.

More on FOG... .
https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=82926.0

You asked how to make this stuff less hurtful... .how to make it roll off.  To me it is really learning the BPD behaviors. Understanding what the dysfunctional behaviors are and recognizing them when they are happening.  Then rather than getting your feelings hurt you can think... .a ha! this is FOG... .this her dysfunctional coping mechanism and this isn't about me at all.

Panda39

[cruiser23]

Do you perhaps feel like that after all those years of hearing your mother's negative remarks about you, that you started to internalize her negativity and in a way maybe started to believe her words and/or question yourself?

When your mother is not around, do you perhaps notice that even then you find yourself dealing with an inner critic, an internalized negative voice bringing you down?


The Board Parrot

Parrot,

Thank you for your words. I find that I need to keep reminding myself, and hearing it from other people helps, that what I've been told forever is in fact, NOT a representation of myself. Projecting is something I remember learning about a long time ago, and I have been reading up on it. It makes me sad that my mom has that much inner turmoil. What a sad way to constantly feel. That being said, she's said such mean and evil things to me, that I used to be quite depressed myself and really felt like the world would have been better without me. I don't feel that way now, but it was a dark time for me.

And yes, your questions above completely sum up how I feel at times. I find myself questioning my decisions in my life, questioning if I'm good enough, if I'm worthy of anything more than crap etc. I didn't even feel I was worth having a bridal shower before I got married, or even a big wedding... .and I had a huge falling out with my dad over my wedding because I couldn't invite my grandparents because my mom hated them so much and I didn't want there to be a scene and he didn't come to my wedding and he and I didn't speak for 5 years. (we've gone through spells where we don't speak, mostly come to find out because of evil things my mom said about them that weren't true. ) I found a page on here about parental alienation, that I need to read more about. She definitely manipulated most of the people out of my life, and as a result I definitely did not feel any man would love me because my dad didn't (mom's words).

I feel like someone opened my eyes for the first time, and I am shocked at how much I believed that wasn't true at all.

[Harri]

I feel like someone opened my eyes for the first time, and I am shocked at how much I believed that wasn't true at all.

     

In time it will feel less shocking.  Processing this stuff, the extent of the abuse and the choices we made based on their view of us, takes a while and needs to be fully realized and grieved. 

[Woolspinner2000]

Hi cruiser23,

I wanted to pop in and say hi! You've gotten a warm welcome I see from the animals of the board.   I'll just add in one more!

So very glad you've found us and are sharing from your heart. My mom was also an uBPD, so I understand too.

Keep sharing. Whatever it is you want to talk about, we will listen and do our best to help you.

 
Wools

[cruiser23]

Hi cruiser23,

So very glad you've found us and are sharing from your heart. My mom was also an uBPD, so I understand too.

So, it's been a little over a week... .I am not talking to my mom... she's harassing everyone to get info about me... .I'm not responding to her texts... .I explained to my dad that he's allowed only to tell her I'm okay but not tell her where I am or what I'm doing, because she will use it against me... .They're divorced anyway, she needs to stop calling him for information.

I feel like responding to her "hey you guys ok" comment with "yep" but even that will, in her eyes, open a dialogue, let her know everything is fine etc... .

What I need to do is figure out how to talk to her, in order to get whatever "stuff" I still have at her house over to my house (she complains I have all this "stuff" at her house... I have no idea what is there, except some cash, and my great grandma's engagement ring in their safe that she has refused to give me bc she swears my husband will just pawn it... .which is bs... we're financially fine,  I don't need the money... .ridiculous)

and then get rid of stuff from my house, and then move away... .far far away... .which sucks because I like living where we do... .I just don't like how accessible we are to her... .

[Harri]

and then get rid of stuff from my house, and then move away... .far far away... .which sucks because I like living where we do... .I just don't like how accessible we are to her... .

You sound tired and discouraged.  Do you still want to work on learning how to set boundaries and use communication tools that can protect you and your space (both physical and emotional)?

I feel like responding to her "hey you guys ok" comment with "yep" but even that will, in her eyes, open a dialogue, let her know everything is fine etc... .

You can change this belief by changing the way you respond when she thinks things are fine.  I see nothing wrong with responding with "yes, we are fine" when she texts you.  If she sees that as an opening or that it means everything is fine, that is on her.  What is important is what you do next. 

What can you say when she starts to act like things are just fine?

[cruiser23]

You sound tired and discouraged.  Do you still want to work on learning how to set boundaries and use communication tools that can protect you and your space (both physical and emotional)?

What can you say when she starts to act like things are just fine?

Harri,

I am tired, and I am discouraged. So far, she's basically just started calling my dad to get all info about me. I told him not to tell her anything, as it's none of her business. And I set up a dog sitter for the vacation that's upcoming (Since we "only use [her] as a dog sitter") which is very expensive, and had to cancel another trip because of the cost. I've asked dad also not to tell me what all she says, because it just makes me mad/upsets me, to hear the crap she says about me, but he can't seem to help himself because he's so upset w her too... ."can you believe she said X" (yes, dad, I can... .re-read the print outs I gave you on BPD thanks)

I do want to set boundaries... And I am reading a lot on here about how to do them... .and I think it helps... .But honestly I"m sitting at home tonight, anxious because my husband is off at work, and I'm scared she's just going to show up because I haven't been responding to her (She actually sent the police out looking for me once when I didn't answer the phone for <12 hours, and called my boss... .I was in college, at a volunteer thing with kids, and I TOLD her I wouldn't have my phone while I was there!) so I'm always scared she's going to do something like that, or just show up and be as crazy as she was when she came over suggesting I was recording her, and that she wanted to shoot my husband... .(over a dream she had where he didn't save me when I was drowning... .)

I did end up saying "we are fine" the next afternoon... .and then she asked me AGAIN for the dates we would need her to "Dog sit" (1), she has them, I've sat down with her and her calendar probably every other week, since we planned the trip, and gone over when I'm here and when I'm not, and 2) she never used this phrase until now... .she always said "when do I get my granddogs" because she got super upset that we do have dogsitters for some of the visits,  ) and  I replied that we got it covered, and she wouldn't need to watch them. and then I didn't speak anymore to her. I don't have anything else to say at this point.

what could I say to her when she acts like nothing's wrong? I don't know... that's been the pattern for so long now, I don't even know how to react to it. The fact that my brother and stepdad aren't reaching out or talking to me at this point (they usually do, and they live with her)  means she knows something is wrong, but I'm sure it's because of me, not her. My brother text my dad and said "I'm not talking to her (me) again until mom and her get over whatever drama is between them right now"

[Panda39]

I am tired, and I am discouraged. So far, she's basically just started calling my dad to get all info about me. I told him not to tell her anything, as it's none of her business... ... ..I've asked dad also not to tell me what all she says, because it just makes me mad/upsets me, to hear the crap she says about me, but he can't seem to help himself because he's so upset w her too... ."can you believe she said X" (yes, dad, I can... .re-read the print outs I gave you on BPD thanks)

Hi cruiser,

I wanted to point out the triangle here. The conflict here is between you and your mom.  If you want to set boundaries like taking a break from your mom that is fine, but when you bring your dad on-board to speak for you then you create a triangle that can up the drama.

More on the Karpman Triangle... .
https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=108440.0

I know it's hard to stand up to your mom, likely you have been conditioned your whole life to have minimal boundaries with her and that's not going to get undone immediately.  Learning new skills takes practice and time. I know it feels good to have your dad on your side... .to have your feelings around your mother validated, it's natural to want that.

But the boundary about no contact with your mom is yours and in my opinion it is yours to enforce, not your dad.

How do you enforce no contact? You go no contact and that means no contact through your dad too.  If you change your mind and want to go low contact then you can do that too.  But any communication with your mom should come from you directly... .no middle man.  Maybe that's just a text once a week, or an email for example... .just an I'm okay email, if she emails back you don't have to answer her... .realize the FOG will likely be blowing... .it might be uncomfortable for you but you do not need to respond.

If you have a boundary with your dad about not talking about your mom, why are you putting him in the middle of the two of you?  Of course he is going to talk about her with you, because you put him in the middle of the two of you to act as communicator.  But when he does talk about her do you go along with the conversation?  Or are you enforcing your boundary with him by not talking about her?

It isn't just about having boundaries, we can all say xyz is my boundary but if we don't enforce that boundary it becomes useless, walked over, and ignored particularly by an expert boundary buster with BPD.

I often share this example of a boundary, both because we have all seen this at the grocery store, and because it might help to think of your mom as the little kid because the behavior is the same.

Mom's value: I want to take good care of my child and that includes eating good healthy food.
Mom's boundary: Sweets are to be had at special occasions only
Mom's Action: To not buy sweets for her child while grocery shopping

A little kid asks mom for candy, mom says no so the kid pouts.  Little kid asks mom again for some candy, mom says no again so the kid whines.  Little kid asks mom again for some candy, mom says no for the third time, this time kid has a full on melt down screaming tantrum (an Extinction Burst - Harri posted a link about this earlier). What happens if mom gives in and gets the candy?  That little kid has just learned that having a screaming tantrum will get them what they want.  What happens if mom doesn't give in? The kid learns that no means no and he gives up.

This does not mean however that the little kid won't ask again the next time mom and he go to the grocery store... .the kid will test the boundary again and so will the person with BPD in your life.  The key here is to always be consistent with your boundary.

There are many places between doing everything your mom wants and no contact to set boundaries.

You can set a limit on how much contact you have with her, you could decide to not see her in person unless it's in public (where she might be on her best behavior), you can tell her you will leave or hang up the phone if she becomes verbally abusive or bad mouths your husband, you could communicate electronically only, you can lower contact like you have by not using her to dog sit... .there are as many boundaries as there are situations.

But honestly I"m sitting at home tonight, anxious because my husband is off at work, and I'm scared she's just going to show up because I haven't been responding to her (She actually sent the police out looking for me once when I didn't answer the phone for <12 hours, and called my boss... .I was in college, at a volunteer thing with kids, and I TOLD her I wouldn't have my phone while I was there!) so I'm always scared she's going to do something like that, or just show up and be as crazy as she was when she came over suggesting I was recording her, and that she wanted to shoot my husband... .(over a dream she had where he didn't save me when I was drowning... .)

When you feel anxiety, pressure, or guilt it is likely FOG... .I'm hearing the Fear part here... .Fear that she will embarrass you.

She might... .she might not... .but she will do what she's gonna do because she controls what she does.  Her actions are her's and if she does something embarrassing that is on her.  Do you think the police thought you were the problem when they came to check on you? Likely not when you told them she had been informed you were unavailable, likely not when you are young adult and your mom is treating you like your 9, likely not when they see a insecure parent that can't let their kid go to college on their own.

The fact that my brother and stepdad aren't reaching out or talking to me at this point (they usually do, and they live with her)  means she knows something is wrong, but I'm sure it's because of me, not her. My brother text my dad and said "I'm not talking to her (me) again until mom and her get over whatever drama is between them right now"

There is a famous book about BPD... .Stop Walking on Eggshells: Taking Your Life Back When Someone You Care About Has Borderline Personality Disorder by Paul Mason MS, Randi Kreger

They are walking on eggshells... .going along with your mom to get along... .the path of least resistance. This isn't about you and what they feel about you it's about falling into the usual roles they play that make that makes both your mom and them comfortable.  You are bucking the system... .bucking the dysfunction (and more power to you for making healthier choices!  ), you are taking the harder road that in my opinion will lead to a better healthier life for you going forward.

Panda39

[cruiser23]

Hi cruiser,

I wanted to point out the triangle here. The conflict here is between you and your mom.  If you want to set boundaries like taking a break from your mom that is fine, but when you bring your dad on-board to speak for you then you create a triangle that can up the drama.

Panda39

I really don't feel like I'm asking him to speak to her on my behalf. They're divorced, he lives in another state (where I go to work every other week, so I see him every week that I am not here). He's just been calling me daily, to talk about things, (he's very worried about my brother (34) who lives with my mom... .which comes from my grandpa passing away and my dad realizing life isn't infinite I think), so he is trying to talk about how to get him out of there... .and then he will bring up mom, and I tell him, "I don't want to know what she says, and I don't want her to know what I'm doing" and we move on... .He was trying to facilitate things in the beginning I think, but now I think as I keep saying that, it's getting less and less... .But when she really upsets him, he comes to me to talk about it, and I have to constantly remind him I'm not interested in hearing it. I am trying to always change the subject to something else.

Trust me, I don't want to be triangulating with her. I read about that, and that's her M.O. almost all the time... .someone HAS to be a bad guy... .for now, it's me.

And you are right about my brother and stepdad, they are just falling into their roles because it is easier. My brother lives at home, has no job, and she still does his laundry and makes all his meals, pays for his car/insurance/cigarettes/internet/new computers etc ,so he has no reason to leave... and we are catholic and my stepdad would never leave her, so they are doing what they have to, to survive... .I'm not willing to keep doing it.

You are right about FOG and extinction bursts (although I think that was the link that didn't work for me earlier). I have developed such an anxiety disorder as a result of growing up this way, and it's gonna take a while to get through it all I guess!

thanks for listening and the recommendations!

[Harri]

cruiser wrote:

what could I say to her when she acts like nothing's wrong? I don't know... that's been the pattern for so long now, I don't even know how to react to it. The fact that my brother and stepdad aren't reaching out or talking to me at this point (they usually do, and they live with her)  means she knows something is wrong, but I'm sure it's because of me, not her. My brother text my dad and said "I'm not talking to her (me) again until mom and her get over whatever drama is between them right now"

What can you say?  That is a good question.  I am not sure there is any one answer though.  I think it depends on the context.  She is not going to always remember things that happened while dysregulating or when she acts or speaks impulsively.  pwBPD also have a way of rewriting history (well, we all do to an extent, but more so with BPD).  I would just stand firm and repeat any boundary or say No, we have a dog sitter but thank you. etc.

Panda talked about your brother and father falling into their roles and she is right.  You can see that too which is good.  One thing that might make it a bit easier to deal with when your brother says stuff like he is not going to talk to you while you and your mom are having drama (that would hurt me) is that your brother and even your father have not reached the same awareness as you regarding your mothers behavior.  Knowing that helped me a great deal when dealing with my brothers anger with me and siding with my mom.  I kept reminding myself that he had to come to his own realization about things.

I don't know if that applies or helps.  I hope it does.  If not, disregard.  I think you are doing very well with changing things at your end.  It is not easy.