My uBPD sister finally admitted...

[LeneLu]

... .to my mother that she really resented me when we were kids because mom made her "drag [little sister] everywhere with her." 

And, during those times I was with her, she was despicable to me--probably in an effort to discourage me from tagging along.  But what she doesn't realize is that I wasn't given a choice either--I was told to "go with her". 

What happened out of view of my parents has had a longterm affect.  I did not develop a healthy attachment to my big sister.  Fast forward to the recent past, when she expressed any sort of sentimentality toward me, I didn't know how to react--to reciprocate feels disingenuous and "fake" (which she has accused me of multiple times).  But, instead I feel sort of frozen, uncomfortable and mistrustful.  She probably finds that reaction hard to deal with, too and doesn't understand where it comes from.

Anyway, to some degree this "frees" me.  She has hated me all of my life.  I have always sensed it. I pushed her out of the limelight by being born, despite the fact that I was a very compliant sister, always trying to please her (typical non-BPD).  But, somehow, the state of things is still my fault, even though she has not dealt with these feelings, not grown beyond them.

Can anyone relate to this situation?

[Kwamina]

Hi LeneLu

... .to my mother that she really resented me when we were kids because mom made her "drag [little sister] everywhere with her."

How did it come about that your sister told your mother this? Did your mother ask her about it or did this revelation come somewhat out of the blue?

You already very much sensed how your sister felt about you, but still, having her admit it, is an interesting new development. How did you find out that your sister told your mother this? How did your mother respond to your sister telling her this?

The Board Parrot

[Panda39]

What happened out of view of my parents has had a longterm affect.  I did not develop a healthy attachment to my big sister.  Fast forward to the recent past, when she expressed any sort of sentimentality toward me, I didn't know how to react--to reciprocate feels disingenuous and "fake" (which she has accused me of multiple times).  But, instead I feel sort of frozen, uncomfortable and mistrustful.  She probably finds that reaction hard to deal with, too and doesn't understand where it comes from.

I think this makes complete sense, someone who has mistreated you much of your life and acts as if those things never happened, I would find it fake too.  To me it sounds like the freeze thing is because you get stuck between not wanting to tell her your true feelings (not wanting to hurt her) and not being able to fake it yourself.

Anyway, to some degree this "frees" me.  She has hated me all of my life.  I have always sensed it. I pushed her out of the limelight by being born, despite the fact that I was a very compliant sister, always trying to please her (typical non-BPD).  But, somehow, the state of things is still my fault, even though she has not dealt with these feelings, not grown beyond them.

Yes, she has validated your experience with her which is what is freeing, but I would think it still stings.    

She is making it your fault because she can't manage her own feelings and has to put them on you to feel better about herself.  This is about her dysfunctional coping and not about you at all.  

I'm curious if you've talked to your mom about what went on with your sister when you were younger?  Was she aware of what went on?  What did she think about your sisters confession?

Panda39

[LeneLu]

My dad, who recognizes that there is something seriously wrong with my sis, told me that my mother shared this with him.  So, it is hard to know the context of conversation.  He told me that my mother's response was, "She was your sister.  You were supposed to help her."

That is all I know.  That, and that my sister somehow blames me... .for being born, I guess.

[Panda39]

I'm glad to hear your dad recognizes there are issues with your sister, it sounds like he has been able to validate your experience.

He told me that my mother's response was, "She was your sister.  You were supposed to help her."

You are her little sister, I would argue that the above wasn't your job.  That was your parent's job as your sister's parents.  It is not your job as her younger sibling to parent your sister.  That is a lot of responsibility to put on your shoulders. 

Do you think you had to spend all of this time with your sister to be her "babysitter" for lack of a better word? What were your parents roles when you were growing up?  Traditional... .dad works... .mom stays home with the kids?  Or did your mom work too?  What was their interaction with your sister like? I'm just trying to get the big picture 

Panda39

[LeneLu]

@Panda39,

To clarify, my mother's response to my big sister was "She was your little sister.  You were supposed to help her."--in this case, she actually came to my defense.  My dad worked and my mom was home for the first 5 years of my childhood.  I think that my mom was like... ."I have something to do, keep an eye on your little sister."  I don't think there is anything unusual about that request and I don't think it was that frequent either. 

Having said that, I have not talked to my mom about this particular conversation. My mom sort of refuses to talk to me about the state of things with my sis.  She has her own BPD traits, mostly denying responsibility for any emotional dysfunction in our family.  

A couple of years ago, I shared a story with her... .

As a child, I had a constant runny nose (I had my adnoids out at 8).  Out of view of my parents, my sister would squeeze my nose so that everything would come out.  Not only was it disrespectful of my personal boundaries, it was just plain mean.  When I shared this story with her, she said, "Why didn't you tell me?" (see how she did that... .blamed a 6-year-old)

Maybe I did and it was brushed off because it was such a small interaction. Or, I didn't want to rat on my sis, knowing it would piss her off and there would be retribution.  

I know this story pales in comparison to some of the sibling abuses that I have read on this board.  But that was the genius of it.  It was never seen and there was no evidence of it (like a bruise or something). She knew I wouldn't tell and if I did, she would deny it. I had no power.

So to answer your question, I can't talk to my mom about this stuff.  It doesn't get me anywhere.  She feels defensive and threatened. I get no sympathy and end up feeling undefended.

[Panda39]

To clarify, my mother's response to my big sister was "She was your little sister.  You were supposed to help her."--in this case, she actually came to my defense. 

Thanks for the clarification I had it backwards. 

My dad worked and my mom was home for the first 5 years of my childhood.  I think that my mom was like... ."I have something to do, keep an eye on your little sister."  I don't think there is anything unusual about that request and I don't think it was that frequent either. 

 

Nope, it isn't.  What was your sister's behavior like when she was around other people as a kid?

Having said that, I have not talked to my mom about this particular conversation. My mom sort of refuses to talk to me about the state of things with my sis.  She has her own BPD traits, mostly denying responsibility for any emotional dysfunction in our family.  

Denial, that would make things so much more invalidating for you   Your reality is one thing and she refuses/can't handle seeing any of it.  That is painful   But I think you recognize that this is about her and her issues and is not about you, and I know it hurts none the less.

A couple of years ago, I shared a story with her... .

As a child, I had a constant runny nose (I had my adnoids out at 8).  Out of view of my parents, my sister would squeeze my nose so that everything would come out.  Not only was it disrespectful of my personal boundaries, it was just plain mean.  When I shared this story with her, she said, "Why didn't you tell me?" (see how she did that... .blamed a 6-year-old)

Maybe I did and it was brushed off because it was such a small interaction. Or, I didn't want to rat on my sis, knowing it would piss her off and there would be retribution.

Or she didn't want to/couldn't handle hearing this so she swept it under the carpet?  Regardless, I am so sorry that happened to you that's awful  

I know this story pales in comparison to some of the sibling abuses that I have read on this board.  But that was the genius of it.  It was never seen and there was no evidence of it (like a bruise or something). She knew I wouldn't tell and if I did, she would deny it. I had no power.

Everyone's story has equal validity around here, no comparisons.  Your experience is just as important as anyone else's.  You experienced abuse at the hands of your sister as a child... .abuse is abuse no matter at what level it is wrong, it is damaging and it is painful.

But I get what you're saying emotional abuse leaves no marks on the outside but can be just as damaging as physical abuse and it can be very subtle.  It's also why so many people other than those closest to someone with BPD may never see any of the issues. 

So to answer your question, I can't talk to my mom about this stuff.  It doesn't get me anywhere.  She feels defensive and threatened. I get no sympathy and end up feeling undefended.

It sounds like you can talk to your dad about it now.  What about when you were a kid did you try to talk to him then?

I found when I first arrived here I didn't have the vocabulary for what I was seeing and at some point along the way someone shared the power and control wheel (you can google this to see a larger version). It's geared toward women in domestic abuse situations, but abuse is abuse and I found it helpful to define the things I was seeing.  I think there are things on it that are applicable to your situation with your sister. 



What is your relationship with your sister like currently?  Do you see her often?  What are the interactions like?

Have you ever tried Therapy at all?  It could be helpful in processing this stuff... .just throwing it out there 

Panda39

[LeneLu]

Hi Panda,

Thanks for your thoughtful response.  I will take a look at the wheel.  I know that I definitely did downplay the "abuse" that I endured, but that is part of my conditioning... ."Oh, it isn't that bad" or "Oh, you don't feel that way." 

I have not spoken to my sibling in close to 18 months.  There have been emails back and forth... .each one from her more vicious than the last.  I haven't responded since the last one at the beginning of the year. Most of my energy devoted toward her is devising ways to avoid her.  I know that won't last forever. My hubs is very supportive, my dad is supportive, my brother is supportive (going so far as to say, "Throw her like a box of rocks to the side of the road and move on with your life.") 

What I find interesting and what a lot of people here may not have experienced is that my family seems to have accepted the fact that there is no relationship between her and me.  I know this might sound strange to people who are dealing with family putting pressure on them to just "make up".  For me, nobody wants to get involved.  But that also is uncomfortable because there is this obvious elephant in the room.  However, my family is terrible at being emotionally supportive, and they are definitely not proactive about it. I rely on my in-laws for that. 

My father has repeatedly told her that she is going to be alone (she is single/no children) and she needs to make an effort to get along if she wants us around in her old age. But that seems to just make her dig her heals in more.

I am in therapy.  I wish I could remember specific interactions and scenarios from when we were kids.  I just know she was either teasing me behind my parents' back, setting up situations where I would get in trouble or finding my buttons to push instead of just playing with me, which was all I wanted.

[Panda39]

I have not spoken to my sibling in close to 18 months.  There have been emails back and forth... .each one from her more vicious than the last.  I haven't responded since the last one at the beginning of the year.

I think this is a good boundary, you don't need to sit there and take verbal abuse. 

Most of my energy devoted toward her is devising ways to avoid her.

What are you thinking in terms of how much contact if any you want to have with her?

My hubs is very supportive, my dad is supportive, my brother is supportive (going so far as to say, "Throw her like a box of rocks to the side of the road and move on with your life.")

Sound like you've got a good support group there   I've got to admit your brother's comment gave me a chuckle.  I think we can all feel that way sometimes.

What I find interesting and what a lot of people here may not have experienced is that my family seems to have accepted the fact that there is no relationship between her and me.

I'm on these boards because my significant other (SO) has an undiagnosed BPD ex-wife (uBPDxw) and they share 2 daughters.  The girls were tweens when we got together 8 years ago and now are young ladies.  D18 is low contact with her mom, mostly phone/text and the occasional cup of coffee (that often doesn't go well) and D22 is no contact with her mother and has only communicated a few times in the last 3 years. 

Their dad and I accept and respect the relationships they choose to have with their mom.  We know it's complicated.  For us it is about them and supporting their choices. Sometimes that means picking up the pieces after a bad phone call, listening as they vent or reminding them that we support them when Mother's Day roles around. Not every relationship is like a hallmark card and frankly for our own emotional health and protection we can't have some people in our lives... .family or no family.

For me, nobody wants to get involved.

What does them getting involved look like? It might be that they are letting you figure out what is best for you.

My father has repeatedly told her that she is going to be alone (she is single/no children) and she needs to make an effort to get along if she wants us around in her old age. But that seems to just make her dig her heals in more.

My SO's uBPDxw told him that she was probably going to die alone.  This is the horribly sad part of BPD.  The thing people with BPD fear the most is Abandonment, but the very behaviors they use to desperately hold on to their closest relationships are the behaviors that drive everyone away. 

I am in therapy.  I wish I could remember specific interactions and scenarios from when we were kids.  I just know she was either teasing me behind my parents' back, setting up situations where I would get in trouble or finding my buttons to push instead of just playing with me, which was all I wanted.

I'm glad to hear you're in Therapy it's good to get those professionals involved sometimes   I'm so sorry your sister couldn't be who you needed her to be.  It's really hard to wish for a nice, caring, loving sister and get someone quite the opposite.  I want you to know that her issues though they have affected you are still her issues.  How she treated you does not reflect who you are and what kind of sister you are.

Panda39

[Kwamina]

Hi again LeneLu

I think it's very wise that you choose not to respond to the hostile emails being sent to you  In all likelihood nothing productive would come from engaging in hostile back and forths any way. Stepping away from that drama seems a wise move indeed.

What I find interesting and what a lot of people here may not have experienced is that my family seems to have accepted the fact that there is no relationship between her and me.

Why do you think your family acts this way? Do you perhaps think they fear what might happen if they tried to intervene? Perhaps fear that your sister's problematic behavior would then be directed towards them?

Having a solid support network in place can be invaluable and that's why I'm glad you also have the support of a therapist to help you deal with all of this. I am also very glad to see you participating here in our online community

Take care and hope to see you around

The Board Parrot

[Harri]

Hi Lenelu!  I don't have much to add as Panda and now Kwamina have covered anything I might have said!   

Your sister and your family are who they are.  I know that hurts, to see them minimize and practically ignore what is happening.  It sucks to say it bluntly and I am sorry you have to deal with that.  I am very glad you are reaching out here.

[LeneLu]

 Thanks to all of you for your thought provoking questions. I looked at the power and control wheel and there are definitely sections that apply. Even in my adult life my sister has tried to use humiliation.  I am reminded of an instance when I invited her out to dinner with a bunch of my graduate school friends. She couldn't stand not being the center of attention. That  was one of the first boundaries I built ... .it was the last time I ever invited her out with my friends.

I definitely think my family doesn't want to be on the receiving end of her wrath. But there is more at stake for her. She has much to lose.

Panda, what you said about her dysfunctional coping is true.  I just still don't understand how projecting her feelings on me makes her feel better.

My brother does have some zingers... .I hope his advice to me is advice all of us nonBPDs can use. But why can't we? Why can't we walk away?

[Harri]

lenelu, hi!

projecting her feelings onto you is not done on a conscious level.  as the feelings rise up they threaten and overwhelm her before she even becomes aware of having them so by projecting them on you, she never has to deal with them.  They are not her problem.  does that make sense?  if she was not projecting them on you she would do it to someone else.  projection is not about you, it is about her not being able to tolerate her negative feelings.

[Panda39]

Panda, what you said about her dysfunctional coping is true.  I just still don't understand how projecting her feelings on me makes her feel better.

A link to more on Projection... .
https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=70931.0

But why can't we? Why can't we walk away?

The short answer here is we can walk away and some people do.  My significant other's (SO's) older Daughter (D22) has been No Contact (give or at a couple of phone calls) with her undiagnosed BPD mom for 3 years.

So yes we can walk away, but the real question is why is it so hard to walk away, and that is probably slightly different for each individual. 

I think we all want to love our family members, I think there is often hope that they will change (and they can if they are willing to do the work) so we just stick with it, we want to be loved by them, we want to make them happy, it could be a sense of duty, it could be tied to our own self-esteem we look good because they are such a mess, we could be care-taker types etc.

FOG is a big one for keeping us engaged... .Fear that they will hate us, leave us, spread lies about us... .Obligation to be a good sister, to help our parents other family members, to take care of our BPD family member... .Guilt that we aren't doing enough to help, that we should not be happy when our family member is suffering etc.

Then there are also outside pressures... .how society views family, keeping up appearances, pressure from within the family to let it go, to ignore the dysfunction, to enable it.

So the attachment could be any or all of the things I've mentioned and there are probably other reasons I haven't even thought of.

My SO's D22 who is no contact with her mother, still can't talk about it with other people both because it's painful to do so and I think she is embarrassed that the relationship is so broken and she is afraid that she wouldn't be understood in a society that puts mothers on a pedestal.  She also holds a lot of anger around what caused the rift.  So walking away isn't easy either.

This is why so much of what we talk about here is creating boundaries, there is a place in the middle of doing everything your sister wants you to do and going no contact.  That is the place where we create boundaries that protect us and allow us to still have our family member in our lives on our terms if we choose to.

Boundaries could be as big or as small as you want.  Maybe it's something small like hanging up the phone if your sister becomes verbally abusive or it could be bigger like going low contact and only communicating by text, or like you have already done by not mixing your sister with your friends.

More information on boundaries... .
https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=61684.0
https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=167368.0

Panda39