20 years and time to make the break?

[Nole99]

I was trying to get my teen sons through Christmas without incident. I was not successful. A huge blow up! The only option is divorce? Really?

The past 5 months has been indescribable - I have learned things about my spouse that have rocked his/my/our world. At the same time after a decade of ups and downs and living my life on eggshells, trying to shield my kids from the emotional temper tantrums, there is some clarity ... .a possible diagnosis. Finding resources in our state is near impossible. I need to hear from others who love someone with BPD. Can a marriage really work? At the same time, is it in my best interest of the family, his, mine, and the kids to call it quits?
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[RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING]

RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members are welcomed to express frustration but must seek constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[ForeverDad]

Welcome.
Lots of questions, I'm sure others will respond too.  Holidays are an especially triggering time for people with BPD (pwBPD) behaviors.  Over the years those sorts of behaviors have been referred to as a Blaming Disorder.  Besides blaming, there is Blame Shifting, Projection of behaviors onto others, especially those closest.

First, take care of yourself.  Be very careful that any response you say or do cannot easily be morphed into being described as abusive or threatening.  One member reported here that his spouse was blocking his exit from a room and he brushed past to get out.  He was arrested for allegedly grabbing her by the neck, another for throwing his spouse down the steps.  So don't give any excuse for your spouse to transform your passive actions into claimed aggressive ones.

Probably you keep trying to reason with her?  Doesn't work with these acting-out Cluster B disorders.  JADE doesn't work.  I know, it's a mystery to us too.  Instead try BIFF.  BIFF works, JADE often flies in one ear and out the other and even antagonizes.

JADE - Justify, Argue, Defend, Explain
BIFF - Brief, Informative, Friendly, Firm

Sharing information... .be careful when you transition from trying to make the marriage work to contemplating an exit... .

When you are in a relationship and your goal is to make it succeed, then yes you do share information.  However, when the relationship is ending, then you transition into "share only the necessary information" mode.  In other words, keep it limited to parenting information such as the kids' appointments, exchange information, and similar.  Anything more and it become TMI — Too Much Information — and sharing additional information could risk sabotaging yourself and your parenting strategies.

Your stbEx will try to weasel extra information from you using FOG (Fear, Obligation, Guilt) but determine what is appropriate for your boundaries and stick to them.  Boundaries are for you, the typical misbehaving spouse won't work with boundaries.  How is it the boundary is for you?  Your boundary is what you will do in response to spouse's misbehavior.

Pattern:  If you do or don't do ___ then I will do or not do ___.

Example:  If you rant and rage... .then I will leave with the kids to a park, restaurant or another place until you calm down.

Understand even that won't get a nice reception.  Often new boundaries are met with Extinction Bursts where the other's goal is to force you to retreat to prior passive patterns.

https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?board=36.0

Remember, explaining your thoughts, actions and perspectives will have only limited success, perhaps none at all in many cases.  Remember too that you have a right to privacy and confidentiality.  Your peer support here and even consulting lawyers deserve privacy and confidentiality.  You do NOT divulge your private strategies and other details during likely late night interrogations.

How many minor children do you have and the youngest age?

[Nole99]

I took my boys (ages 16, 13, 13) to my folks place for a few days. My husband is BPD. (He has self-diagnosed, and the doctor he is seeing and counselor from his outpatient program are on board with it)
Before we left, he was going on about divorce, it being my fault, and he would be gone before we returned. He was looking at getting into transitional housing. Texting me every night about his updates. My response was simply, “l don’t know how to respond to that” and asked him if he thought of a safer option like staying with a friend. His response was, “I’m not going to impose on friends for housing because you judge me to be a bad person?” My response was I do not judge you to be a bad person. Just suggesting a safer place and need for a different environment. I think texting is bad, because there is misunderstanding. I am dropping it now and putting a period on it.” His response the later the better [referring to my return home]. At 8pm itexted him that I was turning off my phone and if he decided to talk with the boys he could call my parents number or our 16 year olds phone. He has been texting our oldest, but has not spoken with our twins.
I turned on my phone this morning to “then let be me and stay in our family home.” How do I respond to THAT? ... .I haven’t yet.

I believe he is referring to drinking Thursday thru Sunday nights, and his marijuana use. Both I have asked him to moderate and think about before purchasing. He is out of work. He has racked up incredible debt. He is unable to put family financial needs in front of his own. I just don’t see any other alternative other than divorce to keep our family from financial ruin.

[Nole99]

Is a joint petition for a divorce even probable? Until Christmas night I never thought it would.

[Baglady]

Hi Nole,

A big warm hug to you 

I feel for you.  I was in a very familiar place this time last year (21 year marriage, 15 year old son, psychotic undiagnosed but textbook BPD husband tearing through alcohol, massive weed usage (out of nowhere) and binge-spending our emergency savings account in unfathomable amounts on who knows what.  Between Thanksgiving and Christmas - a complete rage fest of projection, gas lighting, paranoia and some domestic violence).  Prior to this, our marriage was picture perfect from the outside.  My ex was very high functioning until he snapped and then he suddenly wasn't.  The signs were there all along but masked by a diagnosis of ADHD.

I'm not sure what to tell you.  My ex walked out on my marriage - I had no say in the matter at all.  I tried so hard to save the marriage during the first few months then conceded defeat.  A year out now and I have to confess that he did me a massive favor.  His life is on a major downward spiral.  Nowadays, I'm consumed by keeping my son emotionally safe and protecting him from the fallout as much as possible.

One thing that really helped was that we entered into marriage counseling with a therapist who I truly believed saved my sanity through all of this. Marriage counseling is not recommended for those with BPD partners as they typically use information gained through counseling against us. However, she was the one who  informally diagnosed him with BPD and she did so very quickly.  She validated my reality at a time when my ex was presenting a very effective social mask to many family and friends and conducting a very nasty and soul-destroying smear campaign against me.  She is now my individual therapist and my son's therapist and her intimate knowledge of the whole situation is an invaluable source of support to me.

BPD is so complex and mind-boggling.  My best suggestion is to find yourself and your children some excellent therapeutic supports while you navigate this truly surreal situation.  This website and the fantastic people here also saved me.  Keep connected, reaching out and posting to us - invariably one of us has been in your shoes and can offer support if not actionable advice.

My heart goes out to you.  Believe me, you are stronger than you know.

Warmly,
B

[Nole99]

Thanks B ! I’ve tried for so long to get us into  marriage counseling ... .we finally have an appointment Jan. 24th. I somehow knew we’d never get there.

 Tomorrow I head back to the house with my boys and fear an empty house. He has not spoken with the boys. What do I tell them?

“ A homeless shelter is better than being in our home. “ Really? Who is this man? There is no message I’ve sent that can change his thinking, slow it down, or pause it. Right?

[Baglady]

Hi Nole,

I too struggled (am still struggling!) with how to tell my son what is going on with his Dad.  I'm trying to be as fair and impartial to my ex as possible.  My son saw a lot of his father's psychosis this time last year before I was able to send him to stay with his grandparents for a spell to shield him from the worst of it so he knows that his father's behavior was way off.  I suspect your sons also know something isn't quite right - kids seem to know far more than you ever give them credit for - although they, like my son, are likely very confused.

A year out, my ex is at his best with my son - he knows I will go for full custody if he doesn't behave himself (with the full backing of his parents and family).  My son has a very robust safety plan in place to try to protect him.  It's coached in terms of - if your Mom seems high, don't get a car with her and/or if your Dad is offering you pot, say no - for impartially but my son knows that I don't exhibit these concerning behaviors.  Over the past year, my son has figured out by himself that this plan is in place to protect him if my ex exhibits more psychotic behavior.  I have not said anything to my son about mental illness (my ex is informally diagnosed so I don't feel it fair to go there with my son even if my ex is absolutely textbook BPD) but I find that my son is connecting the dots all by himself.  I've gone back and forth about this with my son - do I share my concerns or let him come to his own conclusions and ultimately, I've decided to let my son drive this.  I've told him that I'm very willing to share my story of the divorce when he is ready to hear it but he says is not yet willing to go there yet and I respect this approach.  I'm sure the full truth will out someday. My son has no idea of the full extent of my ex's serious drug use and very risky sexual acting out yet and I think it's just too upsetting for him to face at this point as he is trying to figure out his own teenage stuff. 

It's an ongoing conundrum to me as to how best to handle this and I hope I'm doing the right thing. 

Hang in there - you are doing the best you can and at the end of the day, the kids will recognize who the stable parent is and who has really got their back through your day-to-day showing up and consistency.

Warmly,
B

[Nole99]

He was home. I will admit I was happy to see him. Why? I am asking myself. 1. My kids came home to their dad. 2. Being emotionally exhausted, I didn’t have to explain to them why Dad left ( yet) 3. He is not at a homeless shelter where I think he’ll continue to decline. 4. I knew he was safe.

We took a break sort of from trying to solve anything. I didn’t address the drinking last night. But, he wanted to address the sexual intimacy. I can’t seem to explain to him my feelings - the posts on this site express them perfectly. I tried to use these words from posts, but he thinks I’m over complicating it and ALWAYS goes to normal married couples. I wonder if I share these posts with him, if he’ll get it. Is that a bad idea?

He said to me (rationally) at the end of the conversation, he wants to be a normal couple, but he can’t cause he’s not normal. Then as he headed downstairs said, here I go again, another night by myself (after he told me to go to bed, cause I looked tired and had been sitting with him for 2-3 hours watching football). At 1:30 am I went downstairs to lower the tv volume - he was still awake ... .with a beer.

It’s morning and know nothing has changed. It was just put on hold. If we didn’t have the financial issues, him renting a place would be ideal. He could do it “his way” and the toxicity of the BPD behaviors would be out of the house. Him staying with someone would be good. If he were employed, he would be in a better place mentally. I need to stop being hopeful and thinking of the ifs. I have to deal with the reality.

[ForeverDad]

BPD is all about extremes.  Right now he's on a low.  The fact that he's admitting BPD is a good thing.  However, marriage counseling is not the sole solution.  I'm sure it would help but he needs his own separate therapist who has the experience and tools to work with him.  DBT or CBT are two therapies that get results.  They teach a person mindfulness, to frequently reorient themselves from their perceptions to the realities.

The first step is to acknowledge the Denial of his issues.  Perhaps he's done that.  Can he, will he apply whatever instruction and advice he gets in therapy?