Living on Mount St Helens

[How to communicate after a contentious divorce...]

I often convince myself that I live in an idyllic mountain valley. Then I do something as simple as setting out a picture of my granddaughter and it's clear that I have chosen a life on Mount St. Helens. Are the good times worth the eruptions? Usually, I think so. But I'm worn down. I have lived with this long enough now to see what a long-term life of this really means. The constant rumbling. The stress of knowing it could blow at any second. I have learned how to survive lava and ash, but it doesn't bring me peace.

The way I see it, my choices are:

1. Stay with my wife and live my life the way I want to (for example, setting out a picture of my grandkids and buying the occasional dog toy without permission), knowing that she will most definitely erupt again and again. I'm sick to death of this scenario. I have tried to treat the explosions like water off a duck's back, but I can't. She is so disruptive. She wrecks birthday parties for my kids, interrupts happy times spent alone or with others, she sulks or is sick when friends come over, probably in an effort to see who I "choose." It's hard to NOT put my attention back on her when she erupts. I can do it, but it's difficult, and I don't want to have to. Living my life the way I want comes with such disruptive consequences, I end up back at #2.

2. Stay together and tiptoe around in order to not set off the eruptions. I've been there, done that, I'm sick of it and unwilling to do it anymore.

3. Leave

Does anyone see another option I'm missing?

I had hoped that by each of us going to therapy, we could work out this clearly unviable option: Stay together, each living our lives that way we want to, talking like adults when our wants and needs clash, finding solutions that work for both of us, or, in the event that no solution will works for both of us, we have a fairly equal level of "giving in" on issues that mean a lot to the other person. I'm not good at this scenario and she is not good at it either.

We've both become entrenched in our positions. For example, I love pets. I had several pets when we first met and I adored them. For heaven sake, my cat even had his own place setting at the table. I resent that my wife didn't tell me she was utterly opposed to animals until well after we were married. My cat died before we moved in together, and my dog died a few years ago. She said she did not want another one. I kept pushing and she finally agreed. I asked her to choose a dog so she would be comfortable with it. We returned three dogs before we got one that worked for her. Now we have a saintly dog but she bitterly resents it. I bitterly resent the thought of living the rest of my life without a dog in order to keep the peace with her. She "tests" me all the time about who I love best - the dog or her. I hate it.

This issue set her off the other night. She asked me what I would do in the future if the dog has accidents in the house because she absolutely cannot deal with that. I told her it was an unlikely scenario and we would cross that bridge if and when we came to it. She accused me of loving the dog more than her. I said that wasn't true, and repeated that we'd cross that bridge if and when we came to it. She wouldn't let it go. She wanted me to assure her that, if the dog has accidents, it would go. I refused to discuss it. For heaven sake, the dog DOESN'T have accidents. But she is always making something where this is nothing. I am so completely and utterly sick of it. Now, as a result of the conversation, the last two days have been pretty miserable. She pouts, she's "dizzy," and she barely said two words when we had a friend over last night, making the evening awkward and uncomfortable. She works at home, but she left without saying goodbye this morning to go who-knows-where. And this is one of her "good" episodes.

I know that if I stay with her, this is what I get. Thinking of that is very depressing. Thinking of leaving is sad. I love her. I am sad for her and I am sad for me. Splitting up would be hard and sad, but it would not be depressing. I actually feel relieved just thinking of it. Is that my sign?

[MyLifeIsNow]

I often convince myself that I live in an idyllic mountain valley. Then I do something as simple as setting out a picture of my granddaughter and it's clear that I have chosen a life on Mount St. Helens. Are the good times worth the eruptions? Usually, I think so. But I'm worn down. I have lived with this long enough now to see what a long-term life of this really means. The constant rumbling. The stress of knowing it could blow at any second. I have learned how to survive lava and ash, but it doesn't bring me peace.

The way I see it, my choices are:

1. Stay with my wife and live my life the way I want to (for example, setting out a picture of my grandkids and buying the occasional dog toy without permission), knowing that she will most definitely erupt again and again. I'm sick to death of this scenario. I have tried to treat the explosions like water off a duck's back, but I can't. She is so disruptive. She wrecks birthday parties for my kids, interrupts happy times spent alone or with others, she sulks or is sick when friends come over, probably in an effort to see who I "choose." It's hard to NOT put my attention back on her when she erupts. I can do it, but it's difficult, and I don't want to have to. Living my life the way I want comes with such disruptive consequences, I end up back at #2.

2. Stay together and tiptoe around in order to not set off the eruptions. I've been there, done that, I'm sick of it and unwilling to do it anymore.

3. Leave

Does anyone see another option I'm missing?

I had hoped that by each of us going to therapy, we could work out this clearly unviable option: Stay together, each living our lives that way we want to, talking like adults when our wants and needs clash, finding solutions that work for both of us, or, in the event that no solution will works for both of us, we have a fairly equal level of "giving in" on issues that mean a lot to the other person. I'm not good at this scenario and she is not good at it either.

We've both become entrenched in our positions. For example, I love pets. I had several pets when we first met and I adored them. For heaven sake, my cat even had his own place setting at the table. I resent that my wife didn't tell me she was utterly opposed to animals until well after we were married. My cat died before we moved in together, and my dog died a few years ago. She said she did not want another one. I kept pushing and she finally agreed. I asked her to choose a dog so she would be comfortable with it. We returned three dogs before we got one that worked for her. Now we have a saintly dog but she bitterly resents it. I bitterly resent the thought of living the rest of my life without a dog in order to keep the peace with her. She "tests" me all the time about who I love best - the dog or her. I hate it.

This issue set her off the other night. She asked me what I would do in the future if the dog has accidents in the house because she absolutely cannot deal with that. I told her it was an unlikely scenario and we would cross that bridge if and when we came to it. She accused me of loving the dog more than her. I said that wasn't true, and repeated that we'd cross that bridge if and when we came to it. She wouldn't let it go. She wanted me to assure her that, if the dog has accidents, it would go. I refused to discuss it. For heaven sake, the dog DOESN'T have accidents. But she is always making something where this is nothing. I am so completely and utterly sick of it. Now, as a result of the conversation, the last two days have been pretty miserable. She pouts, she's "dizzy," and she barely said two words when we had a friend over last night, making the evening awkward and uncomfortable. She works at home, but she left without saying goodbye this morning to go who-knows-where. And this is one of her "good" episodes.

I know that if I stay with her, this is what I get. Thinking of that is very depressing. Thinking of leaving is sad. I love her. I am sad for her and I am sad for me. Splitting up would be hard and sad, but it would not be depressing. I actually feel relieved just thinking of it. Is that my sign?

[Cat Familiar]

It's a trade-off, you know that there will be volcanic eruptions at some point, but otherwise life is tolerable, and sometimes very nice. But you are feeling worn down from dealing with the constant threat.

You consider the possibility of staying in your marriage and living life as you want, but you know the disruptions she creates destroy the possibility of a peaceful life.

Then there's the possibility of walking on eggshells to avoid setting her off. You've tried that and it's too draining and you don't want to do that anymore.

The other possibility you're considering is leaving the relationship. You had high hopes that through therapy, this possibility could have been avoided. You both are very entrenched in your values and some of your important criteria are not shared by your wife, such as your desire to have pets.

The thought of leaving makes you sad, but at the same time, there is a glimpse of freedom in that option.

You ask if there are other possibilities you aren't currently seeing. Here are some links to check out while you ponder that question:

https://bpdfamily.com/content/ending-conflict

https://bpdfamily.com/content/setting-boundaries

https://bpdfamily.com/content/karpman-drama-triangle

Best, Cat

[AskingWhy]

I know well what you must be feeling.

Those with BPD have problems with boundaries and you know that is an understatement.  I think your Mt. Saint Helens metaphor is apt.  I know the feeling of "mushroom clouds" in the house like exploding H-bombs.   Usually there will be a trigger, and then off it goes.

It's a shame how even the dog has been implicated in your W's insecurities.  This shows exactly how unbalanced she is and that she is truly living in another emotional dimension.   A dog is like a small child, and deserves the same patience as a small child.  Sadly, lack of empathy, as in NPD, is a hallmark of BPD.  A dog is not a disposable object, but a living, sentient creature.  (The dog likely perceives the drama in your house and may be having psychological issues due to this.  I know our own pets scatter into the rest of the house when H breaks things in his fits of rage.  Make sure your dog is safe from any sort of abuse your W might choose to project on him.)

I have been in a marriage with my uBPD/uNPD H for over 20 years, and I still wonder if I should leave.  About 5 years ago, I had a wake-up call regarding the dysregulation episodes and I began to see a pattern.  H would rage, break things, upend furniture, threatened divorce during almost every disagreement, frighten the pets, etc.  After I understood the mechanisms and manifestations of BPD, I felt less like the failure he led me to believe I was.  My self-esteem had been eroded to almost nothing.

Sadly, I developed serious stress-related illnesses during this time, including C-PTSD, which is from long-term stressors.   Those with BPD and NPD often see their children as extensions of themselves.  I was constantly crying after his character assassinations, his name-calling, and putting his children ahead of our marriage (when they were very young, but also as adults.)  As the children grew to adults and married, even having children, it still felt like I was in a polygamous marriage with H giving equal say to his children in important matters, matters that should have been consulted with a spouse.  The children's M is most likely uNPD; BPDs find themselves in marriages to NPDs but also nons who are codependent.  His Ds would demand to go out on dates with them, and I was made to feel like I was never one of "them."  His children, as young adults, even lobbied their father to divorce me, shouting, "It's her against us!" (This is likely because he confessed his marital dissatisfaction with his children, using them as confidants, a big mistake on his part.)

I can't tell you the number of times my H has wrecked special occasions for me with his thoughtlessness, sulking and rages.  He'll give me a cheap and poorly chosen gift and act like he just gave me the Hope diamond.  (He spends thousands of dollars on his children and grandchildren for just-because gifts.  For our 20th anniversary, he presented me with a very small diamond ring with so many carbon chips that I thought it was barely above industrial grade.  His own SIL presented his D with a handsomer engagement ring.)  When I showed my disappointment and disgust, he flew into fit of rage, telling me not to leave the ring where he could see it because he was going to take it back and pawn it.

Keep in mind that I have been tolerating this for more than 20 years.  The last few years, for me, have been better with my changed perception and some communication tools.  But I know my H will not change.  I often end my day gritting my teeth down due to having to hold in my resentment.

You will know when you are ready to make a choice.  If you are not in therapy for yourself, you should find a T to speak to alone, without your W.  

[Lucky Jim]

She accused me of loving the dog more than her. I said that wasn't true, and repeated that we'd cross that bridge if and when we came to it. She wouldn't let it go. She wanted me to assure her that, if the dog has accidents, it would go. I refused to discuss it. For heaven sake, the dog DOESN'T have accidents. But she is always making something where this is nothing. I am so completely and utterly sick of it.

Hey MLIN, That's a good example of what I would describe as a circular argument, because neither of you is likely to convince the other of your position.  Let me ask you a few questions: What would you like to see happen?  What is the best path for you at this point?  What are your gut feelings about your marriage?  These are tough questions, I know, but might help you to find your way.

LuckyJim