BPD Girlfriend broke up. NC for 2 weeks. Long Distance.

[Beneck]

Hey guys.

I know that this is posted in the "Reversing a Breakup" section. But I'm unsure of what I want. That is normal I suppose, since I need to heal.

My ex gf has been struggling with mental health all of her life. She was initially diagonsed as possibly suffering from bipolar disorder. She also suffers from anxiety, eating disorders, ocd, ptsd... .you get the gist.

When we got together, my gf was eating about 600 kcal a day, heavily threatening her well-being. I tried to be as supporting as I could through her ordeal. Eventually things became critical and she was sectioned.

We hung on for about 2-3 months. She'd get increasingly distant, heavily struggling and being mistreated in the Mental Health Unit. Communication became scarce. I'd sent her SMS messages from time to time, saying good morning and encouraging her.

She'd occasionally log onto fb, and we'd chat.

At one point, she read my messages but never responded.

I kept texting her from time to time, telling her that it's ok if she doesn't want to talk and I'm here for her.

I sent her a package with books and other stuff in order to cheer her up. I reached out to her mother as well, who didn't respond until weeks later.

Turns out, my gf had been moved to a new Mental Health Unit, where things were far more strict. She no longer had occasional access to Facebook, for instance.

Slowly and gradually, I started talking to her mother. My gf wouldn't get the package until months later, since it was in the previous unit and they were being stupid. So I sent her a letter, telling her not to contact me unless she really, really wanted to.

Sadly, her mother was struggling with her own stuff as well (such as EDS), and would be unable to respond for long lengths of time when her joints hurt.

About 5 months passed, me alternating between hope, rage and sadness. Eventually, I decided to move on. Right after going out on a date with another girl, I (FINALLY!) recieve a letter from my gf. I was blissful, of course.

Eventually, my gf to go out in the community every sunday, when her family would visit. We spoke for the first time via FB again shortly after I had gotten her letter. We had both missed each other very, very much.

We were great for about 5 months. Sometimes, she'd grow distant, which did hurt. However, I'd be as understanding as I possibly could, telling her that it's ok if she doesn't want to talk and that I'm here for her. Her mother helped us TONS, and was instrumental in getting me to understand how my gf operated. We also exchanged several and small gifts. Later, she was able to call me, and we'd talk FOR HOURS on the phone. It was about this time she revealed the new diagnosis; Emotion Dysregulation Disorder (Another name for BPD). It made perfect sense.

So recently, from Mid-September I'd say, my gf started being distant again. This time I was better prepared. I was understanding, but also expressed the WANT for her to COMMUNICATE when she doesn't want to talk.

So she's being distant and rather disinterested in me... .communication becomes rather scarce.

Then she calls me, saying that she "can't do both" and that she's "breaking up with me". By that point, I was rather tired and I did want a bit of space, but NOT separation.

She said I had wasted a year of my life. I told her it wasn't time wasted at all, and that I had learnt to love, be loved, and to hope. I told her that if she shouldn't do it if she's doing it for me and love takes patience.

She explained that she had been feeling trapped, and she had been thinking about this for a month. That she was feeling numb, and that she didn't know when she wouldn't feel numb. That I deserved better. That I'm a beautiful person and that I deserve the best.

I just told her to be happy. I told her to just go. And she hung up.

Cried soon afterwards.

Went home, wrote a lengthy text telling that I love her and I'm proud of her. That she's a great person and that she do the things that she wants to do, like travel abroad.

I told her I'd block her, because I needed to get over her. And that I'd be there for her, but in the far future. That she won't hear from for a long time, at least not directly.

So I went ahead and blocked her. I made sure she couldn't call either. So that she'd want to.

Thankfully, her mother has been a real friend to me, sticking by my side and supporting me, as well as encouraging to talk about my feelings. She said she'd always be my friend.

The thing is.

I love her. And I miss her. So so so so so much.

But I don't want her back the way she is right now.

She has a lot to work on. She has to do GOOD therapy. She needs to do things for herself. As do I... .

I alternate between hoping for a future together and not hoping. I don't know what's best... .I've been NC for... .17 days now. And I miss her overwhelmingly.

I'm proud of her, as she handled things well, overall. She was an amazing gf, especially considering her disorder. She did her best and tried really really hard. I think I will always love her, and that sucks... .

So yeah, I'm really sharing my thoughts and venting here, mostly to feel better... .it's important to talk about your feelings. And maybe you guys can tell me something I hadn't thought about.

Life goes on. I know that. And yet, I can't stop thinking about her... .

[RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING]

RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members are welcomed to express frustration but must seek constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[Radcliff]

Thanks for sharing so much of your story with us.  Can you tell us a little more about the breakup?  It sounds like you needed some space, but didn't want a breakup.  If you could have made the plan for how things would go to get space and heal, what would have been ideal for you?

RC

[Beneck]

No problem Radcliff. Thank YOU for taking the time to read my post and make a reply!

I think 1-2 weeks of no contact would have been more than enough to start missing her again. It was, I admit, tiring, as near the end she had alternated between hot and cold a couple of times!

[Radcliff]

We are here to support you no matter what path you decide to take in the relationship.  I asked what you wanted, because sometimes these relationship interactions get away from us, and don't end up going down the path we wished.  Sometimes it can feel like we're stuck on a path then.  Ironically, the other person may end up with the same feeling.  It sounds like when she said she wanted to break up forever, you didn't want that, but you took what she said at face value, and then said you needed no contact for a long time in order to get over her.  Is that summary accurate?

RC

[Beneck]

Hey Radcliff.

Thanks for the support. It means a lot. And yes, I'll have to decide what I want at some point.

She didn't say "forever", though I suppose one could infer forever. I didn't infer that. As I understand it, we are separated for as long as we decide not to be. That could be forever, but you never know. To re-iterate, no, she didn't say or imply "forever".

"but you took what she said at face value, and then said you needed no contact for a long time in order to get over her.  Is that summary accurate?"

Yup!

My reasoning is the following: even if we were to get back now, it wouldn't change anything. It is difficult for me to be with her again so soon after that. Additionally, she too needs to put in the work required. I won't take her back otherwise.

[Radcliff]

What do you want to see from her as far as work on herself goes?  How would you know if she's completed it?

RC

[Beneck]

Good question!

I'd say she definitely needs to have been attending GOOD therapy for some time. The therapy that has been currently given to her has sadly been very luckluster.

You see, she is now going, after almost a year, going to be in a community placement. Think of as assisted living. She's going to finally be out of the hospital.

In the event that starts not eating again, or self-harming, she could be denied that chance. So she has limited those behaviours for the upcoming "reward", but hasn't really healed yet. The therapy provided to her was mere patchwork, keeping her from self-harming with the use fear, essentially.

Good news is, in the past she has responded very well to an art therapist. She will probably begin sessions once she is out. I think it's a great idea and could really help her!

Another thing she has to "fix" is communication.

When she struggles, she has learn to become numb and feel no emotion at all. She becomes extremely distant. My gripe with that, as I've told her, is not the need for isolation, but her failure to communicate that need. Not only would I want that, as her bf, but I think (and told her) it'd be nice for her friends and people in her life in general. Just say "Hey. I'm kinda stressed atm and don't wanna talk. Just texted you to give you a heads up". I know it's not easy when she feels so guilty about cutting off, but that is exactly the reason I have been praising her explaining things, even if it was a week afterwards.

So, to reiterate

• To have been consistently going to therapy
• To be able to clearly communicate needs of isolation, and to be able to cope and experience her emotions, rather than numbing herself

I realize that my expectations may be a tad unrealistic. Nevertheless I do want to see steps towards the aforementioned. And effort.

In regards to finding out, I can always ask her, as well as her mother.

[Radcliff]

First, let me say that having been in a rough and unhealthy BPD relationship, I can very much understand your desire and need for change.  Your focus on changing the pwBPD is very familiar to me.  There's a conundrum here, though.  If they perceive that our love is conditional, or if they feel controlled by us, we're neither going to be effective in helping them to get better, nor are we going to be helping the relationship succeed.

When two healthy people are negotiating a relationship, they may be able to be pretty up front with each other.  "If you don't (stop flirting with other men, work a job that allows us to spend time together, etc. etc.) this relationship won't work for me.  But when we're dealing with someone who is vulnerable and has emotional disabilities, this simply increases the pressure on them and is not effective.  My guess is that she can sense your intent to change her behaviors, even if you are not outwardly voicing it, and that it may lessen the chances of success.  Does that make sense?

RC

[Beneck]

I understand! What is your idea? How do you think I should go about it?

[Radcliff]

I understand! What is your idea? How do you think I should go about it?

Great!  I've got two big ideas for you.  The first is to shift your approach to helping her get help.  The second is to focus intensely on skill building for yourself, and less on trying to get her to change.  These are tried and true strategy shifts.

With respect to getting her help, see the info below on the approach of Dr. Amador, who highlights how directive approaches are doomed to failure, but supportive approaches have hope.  It's a long video, but worth it.

I think you would find it valuable to look at this page on how to get a borderline into therapy.  There's a video at the end by a clinical researcher who figured out how best to approach the challenge of getting someone to get past unawareness of a mental illness and into therapy.  The video is long -- an hour and forty minutes -- and the example he uses is about schizophrenia, but I was patient and watched the whole thing, and am glad I did.  He drops a nugget 37 minutes in, and finally gets down to business at about 1:19.  It's worth watching, but you probably also want to read his book, I Am Not Sick, I Don’t Need Help:  How to Help Someone With Mental Illness Accept Treatment.  In the video, he says that one of two things needs to happen to make it likely for someone to stay in treatment:  1. Awareness that they have a mental illness (usually not going to happen), and 2. A relationship with someone who listens without judgement and thinks they'll benefit from treatment.  He founded the LEAP Institute to train people in these techniques (www.leapinstitute.org).  LEAP stands for Listen, Empathize, Agree, and Partner.

As for focusing on yourself, it's pretty hard to work on personal growth when our loved one is so out of control.  Their issues seem to dwarf ours.  But we can only work on ours, and when we start to, we can really get improvement.  We can't solve all the problems by working on just our half, but we can make a big difference.  I think the best place to start for many newbies is learning how not to “justify, argue, defend, or explain” (JADE).  We can get a lot of bang for the buck by just changing our habits in this area.  Take a look at that article, and let us know if you think that shift might be helpful in your relationship.

RC

[Beneck]

Hey Radcliff!

I'm just letting you know that I haven't yet checked what you have provided yet, but I really want to, and will definitely do so when I have time. However, there are a couple of things I'd like to clarify.

Great!  I've got two big ideas for you.  The first is to shift your approach to helping her get help.  The second is to focus intensely on skill building for yourself, and less on trying to get her to change.  These are tried and true strategy shifts.

I'd like to clarify that there's no reason for me to get her to get help at the moment... .not only do we not talk, but she has been getting help for a LONG time. She's tried DBT (didn't realy like it), has had a lot of therapy in the hospital she's currently in (though as I've said I doubt the QUALITY of said therapy) and has expressed a lot of interested in doing art therapy. Her mother's told me she's already arranged for her to do art therapy once she's placed in the community placement which is GREAT and I'm VERY optimistic about that! Not in regards to her coming back (which I do want, I admit) but towards her becoming more functional and HAPPY! Because I really, really think she deserves it! 100%

Now, in regards to the skill building... .yes! That's always a good thing!

Personally, I'd ALWAYS state what I don't like or what bothers me, but I also ALWAYS tried to be as understanding as possible. To be compleletely honest with you, I do have controlling urges which stem from fear and insecurity, but I never attempted to change her. Why? Because she deserved better. And because she is HER OWN person with HER OWN life. So even though I felt like controlling her sometimes, I never did so. If I expressed my discomfort about something, she'd reassure me, I'd explain WHY I feel how I feel (and she'd see where I came from, and vice versa) and we'd move on.

I do remember once where she refused to take her medication in the hospital, because of side effects. Initially, I told her to discuss it with the health professionals openly and honestly. She still didn't take her meds, so I told her not to call me until she did. And she did! And she called.

IMO she deserves TONS of praise because:

• She let me know on her own she wasn't taking them.
• Though she took them because I wouldn't talk to her otherwise, it was HER who took them, not me

So I let her know of these 2 thoughts of mine, and praised her a lot for it. Because she was honest and open.

With respect to getting her help, see the info below on the approach of Dr. Amador, who highlights how directive approaches are doomed to failure, but supportive approaches have hope.  It's a long video, but worth it.

As for focusing on yourself, it's pretty hard to work on personal growth when our loved one is so out of control.  Their issues seem to dwarf ours.  But we can only work on ours, and when we start to, we can really get improvement.  We can't solve all the problems by working on just our half, but we can make a big difference.  I think the best place to start for many newbies is learning how not to “justify, argue, defend, or explain” (JADE).  We can get a lot of bang for the buck by just changing our habits in this area.  Take a look at that article, and let us know if you think that shift might be helpful in your relationship.

I'll definitely take a look into the article, but I'd like to clarify that I HEAVILY understand the importance of taking care of yourself. I've been through mild depression, and managed to break out of it by looking inward and starting to appreciate and love myself. When she was distant, it was hard for me and it DID affect me, and I do admit it caused me to take less care of myself, but never to the point where I was neglecting myself too much, because I will NEVER allow myself to drop into such a low ever again. Not only do I deserve better, but it also allows me to be STRONG for the people I love and care about. And that includes her.

RC

My 2 cents so far. VERY interested to hear your opinions and your criticism! And once again, thank you for the detailed and lengthy response! I'll definitely check what you linked and even if I cannot use it right now her mother MIGHT find it very useful!

[Beneck]

Ok so I checked the material.

I've been doing things well but I may in some instances have been a little biy judgemental or invalidating. There definitely is room for improvement. I'll definitely check it again in case we reconnect.

I also really liked the material in regards to getting someone to go to therapy by being 1)Not-judgemental and 2)Believing that therapy will be beneficial.

It's been 3 weeks as of now.

She asks her mother if I'm doing ok from time to time. I ask about her too, but I'm trying to put a limit to it. As I see it, this doesn't necessarily mean that she wants me back, but she knows that she's hurt me and she cares about me. It could be a way for her to deal with her guilt. Her mother's told me that she does realize it might take a while before we talk again. As far as I can tell, she has expressed interest in the 2 of us being friends. However, having feelings for her, I really cannot be her friend right now.

As I said, we were long distance. We were planning to see each other at some point, either by me flying to her country or vice versa. However, since there are numerous job opportunities in her country for my field of work, I had been planning (without telling her) to migrate to her country. What I had been telling her though, was that I'd come see her as soon as possible, but couldn't give a definite date. I have relatives there anyway, so it's not like I'm migrating just for her (though she was an important reason... .heh :p )

So I actually told her that I'm about to migrate to her country when she broke up with me over the phone. It was probably a mistake, as it's really irrelevant in regards to whether she wants me or not, but I overreacted due to intense emotion... .

Recently, her mother's told me she's asked her whether my plans in regards to that have changed. I guess it's likely that she'll try to contact me once she founds out I've moved. Though my head will have by that point cleared to a degree, I'm not sure I'll want to talk to her or see her by then. Maybe later? Who knows. It'll depend on how I feel.

[once removed]

hi Beneck

it sounds like youve thought this through and are staying grounded... .

what, if anything, would you want to do differently/bring into the relationship from your nd if it were to reconcile?

[Beneck]

Hey once removed! :p

hi Beneck

it sounds like youve thought this through and are staying grounded... .
Is that a good thing? :p

I do realize now that me blocking her and telling her she's not going to hear from me for a long time was a bit of an overeaction that was tirggered by the emotional pain of the break up. Maybe I should have taken a bit more time to cool off before deciding whether to block her or not. Nevertheless, it's not all bad, and I certainly don't want to talk to her right now anyway.

what, if anything, would you want to do differently/bring into the relationship from your nd if it were to reconcile?

That's the problem... .I'm not sure!

She definitely needs to work on herself, like I've said. As for me? I'm overall satisfied by how I've done things... .but there's always a way to do things better. For starters, I could definitely make efforts to integrate SET.

Other than that, by the time we meet again, I want to have settled into my new job, have been going to the gym and practising boxing, and overall being a more mature, confident and better version of my current self. I've been thinking that this will really work in my favor, especially if I want her back by that point. But it's too early to tell what I'll want by that point.

So my question to you is the following... .

What relationship skills should I aspire to start learning, not just for being with her again, but in general?

[once removed]

Is that a good thing? :p

critical! realistic expectations, a thoughtful/thought through idea of what changes in the relationship you would want/need to see, an understanding of what went wrong, the limits of the other party, all of these are very important.

one of the general bits of advice on this board is that on some level, its best to grieve/mourn the old iteration of the relationship, and if it is to be rekindled, to see any new iteration as a new relationship with a very different plan. it sounds like you are doing some of that.

I do realize now that me blocking her and telling her she's not going to hear from me for a long time was a bit of an overeaction that was tirggered by the emotional pain of the break up.

it is certainly erecting a high wall, though i will say you implemented it fairly reasonably and limited the damage. it sounds like, however she might have taken it, she understood.

What relationship skills should I aspire to start learning, not just for being with her again, but in general?

the communication tools work wonders, and with practice, become ingrained/natural.

the great thing about the skills and tools here is that not only will they affect how you cope, and how you see yourself in your interactions with others, but they work with everyone. i know you asked for specifics, but my answer is "all of them", because you can start practicing them today.

a personal favorite of mine that isnt so much a skill or a tool, but that the skills/tools/concepts all build on is the karpman drama triangle (https://bpdfamily.com/content/karpman-drama-triangle). it gives me a better understanding of human nature, how im interacting with others, the differences between good and bad triangulation, and how all of it ties together.

[once removed]

hows it going today beneck? dove in any into the tools?

[Beneck]

Hey once removed! Thank you so much for checking up on me!

Ok so, I gave the drama triangle a read. Fascinating stuff.

Very importantly, it made me realize that I have the tendecy to be a rescuer in such a triangle and that, sadly, I have been someone who helped others to bolster his own self esteem. You have also heard of the phrase "Messiah Complex" or "Saviour Complex", which is something similar.

When I was young, I had the tendency to emotionally support my mother in times of need, and I guess that "taught" me to do the same for others.

In a way, this is how I met my ex. She had issues and I was there to "help". That was about 4 years ago, though. Far later, about the time we got together, by searching up online articles relevant to my concerns, I read (and realized) that you cannot save no-one who doesn't want to help themselves, and that to an extend, everyone is responsible for themselves.

The triangulation mentioned in the article is not unlike the one between me, my ex and her mother. Thankfully, though not an optimal one, it was a good triangle (at least in regards to what I know of) and I suppose that's good to know.

I also really liked the suggestions in regards to being assertive rather than invalidating and vurnerable rather than needy.

So yeah, I like the triangle. I'll definitely check it out again and I'd like to read more about it. I'll also share it with my ex's mother; she might find it useful!

In regards to how I'm doing... .

I'm ok, overall. But it's very difficult somedays. Especially during the nights. Some nights are just gruesome. I miss her terribly. It's going to be 4 weeks this monday. I think this is important milestone. It's getting progressively easier but I still miss her tons.

And yet, I don't want her back right now. Not with the same dynamic. Not unless we both change.

Would it be satisfying if she wanted me back, if she pleaded me? Of course. And a part of me wants me to be the best I can be in order to for her to regret leaving me. All of that is childish, but also human.

I know that I were to be with her again, I'd be her caregiver, to an extent. Do I want that? I'm not sure. The only thing I know is that she's the only one I'd do such a thing for, because I love her.

I alternate between acceptance, sadness, love and anger. I'm angry at her, but not because I have a reason to be. I'm just hurt, and I guess the anger is a manifestation of  the hurt.

Recently, I've been thinking about unblocking her. I'm starting to sometimes think that I don't anymore feel the need to have such a high wall erected against her. But could also be wishful thinking; it's like I'm addicted to her and my brain is coming up with all sorts of excuses for me to communicate with her, to get my fix.

So what I wanted to ask is the following:

In your opinion, is it a good idea to unblock her? When is it a good idea to unblock her in general?

If she communicates, how do I tell her I need more time/space? How do you recommend I go about it?

[Beneck]

How can I edit my posts? I'd like to add to my previous post that I'm also really want to do therapy at some point.

I don't anything in particular to be wrong with me, but I want to learn more about myself. I want to get to the bottom of this.

EDIT: Hm, weird. The modify button wasn't available on the previous post. Sorry for doubleposting :p

[once removed]

Ok so, I gave the drama triangle a read. Fascinating stuff.

isnt it? triangulation, good and bad, is all around us. you and i are doing it right now 

You have also heard of the phrase "Messiah Complex" or "Saviour Complex", which is something similar.

sure. a lot of us have some of this going on in various forms. it wasnt super obvious to me in my relationship, because i didnt fall for some sob story, and my ex didnt really tell any, wasnt some damsel in distress, ya know? nothing wrong with helping others, but we can better help others if we keep our sense of autonomy and respect that of others. if you look at the Winners Triangle, the Rescuer role is now the "Caring" role. the "Caring" role says "im listening". it may do more, but it respects the "Vulnerable" and "Assertive" roles as individuals.

When I was young, I had the tendency to emotionally support my mother in times of need, and I guess that "taught" me to do the same for others.

we tend to learn the role we naturally navigate to in our family dynamics. i think supporting your mother (or other family) is a great value to live by, but with healthy boundaries. what did it look like in your case?

In a way, this is how I met my ex. She had issues and I was there to "help". That was about 4 years ago, though. Far later, about the time we got together, by searching up online articles relevant to my concerns, I read (and realized) that you cannot save no-one who doesn't want to help themselves, and that to an extend, everyone is responsible for themselves.

i think thats true. the powerful thing about these dynamics is that in a lot of ways, they represent a bond for us, one that doesnt always have the most stable or healthy foundation. what is familiar, and/or intense, we often perceive as intimacy. real intimacy and trust are slowly built over time. for one example, if a relationship is built on one partner needing rescuing, and one partner supplying it, what happens if everything is solved, and theres no more rescuing? both parties lose that bond. its less fulfilling, it doesnt "click". maybe one or both create drama to try to get it back.

So yeah, I like the triangle. I'll definitely check it out again and I'd like to read more about it. I'll also share it with my ex's mother; she might find it useful!

check this out, its a fascinating, concrete example: https://thebowencenter.org/theory/eight-concepts/

Would it be satisfying if she wanted me back, if she pleaded me? Of course. And a part of me wants me to be the best I can be in order to for her to regret leaving me. All of that is childish, but also human.

it is human, and its a hard adjustment, no doubt. if it helps, space can be healing. it doesnt have to be forever any more than a cast for a broken arm.

I know that I were to be with her again, I'd be her caregiver, to an extent. Do I want that? I'm not sure.

its a very personal decision, but the best, most effective caretakers have good boundaries. they dont lose themselves. they support themselves, and they support those whom they care for, lovingly and consistently, but also firmly, and without losing themselves in the other. none of that is to say its easy, just to put it in perspective in terms of what "care taking" can mean.

In your opinion, is it a good idea to unblock her? When is it a good idea to unblock her in general?

If she communicates, how do I tell her I need more time/space? How do you recommend I go about it?

well, it sounds like youre thinking this through, and i think its important we lose the walls when we know that we no longer need them. but its also self aware to know that sometimes we do these things because our brain is creating those scenarios, and we want a reaction... .the Bargaining stage of grief can do that.

to answer your question, id probably continue to sleep on it, because im not sure whether  you unblock her tomorrow, or unblock her in a week, makes much difference. unblocking her sends a message on some level, and if you still need space, it may not be a message you want to send just yet. do it when you are prepared for, but not necessarily expecting, contact.

what do you think?

[Radcliff]

Therapy is an excellent idea.  You are working hard at improving your self-knowledge, and therapy will increase your pace and get you to insights you might not reach on your own.

Can you tell us a little more about the relationship dynamic with her that you'd want to change if you got back together?  A lot of the discussion in this thread has focused on her therapy, but what matters to you as a person making decisions about this romantic relationship or a future one is observable behaviors.  What about past behaviors/interactions of both of you in the relationship would you want to see changes in?

RC

[Harri]

This thread has reached it's limits and has been locked.  A continuation can be found here: Life is small, and I'm done wasting my time.