Another Lousy Vacation

[Depression = 72% of members]

We are in NY for the week for Thanksgiving.  The first night we got here I accidentally shut off the lights in the bathroom when my wife was taking a shower.  She exploded at me and pretty much ruined the trip for us.  Things have calmed down a little since then, but today she decided she needed to get into bed at 6pm and cancelled the only event I planned for us (dinner with friends).

I've been following the advice in "Walking on Eggshells".  I understand I need to set boundaries and limits, but what do you do when you are with your kids and wife, you can't just leave, and you need to make the best of a lousy situation?

Put another way, what does it mean to set limits? 

Do you tell your spouse, if you explode at me I'm going to _______.

Please help me fill in the blank.

[slowsteve]

We are in NY for the week for Thanksgiving.  The first night we got here I accidentally shut off the lights in the bathroom when my wife was taking a shower.  She exploded at me and pretty much ruined the trip for us.  Things have calmed down a little since then, but today she decided she needed to get into bed at 6pm and cancelled the only event I planned for us (dinner with friends).

I've been following the advice in "Walking on Eggshells".  I understand I need to set boundaries and limits, but what do you do when you are with your kids and wife, you can't just leave, and you need to make the best of a lousy situation?

Put another way, what does it mean to set limits? 

Do you tell your spouse, if you explode at me I'm going to _______.

Please help me fill in the blank.

[PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES]

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[Beneck]

Hey Slowsteve, welcome!

It's good that you've reading that book, and also great that you're here!

Ok so, as far as I understand it, in case of your wife exploding you LEAVE and refuse to engage her and play her game.

So I wouldn't put in a "if you do X, I'll do Y" kind of way, but I'd let her know that:

I understand that she's upset (Validate)

State that such a behavior is not acceptable nonetheless.

That you're going to do something else (say, in another room) or go for a walk, and check back on her later since she's clearly upset.

That's how I'd go about it. I'm also interested to hear how other members would handle such a situation.

What do you think?

[Radcliff]

Trips are tough.  They can be some of the most difficult times with our pwBPD.  Boundaries are seldom delivered as an ultimatum, as Beneck noted.  They are not intended to control someone else's behavior.  Our own behaviors, and their protective action, is the desired outcome.  For example, if someone is yelling at us, we tell them we need to take a break and will be back in 20 minutes. To learn more about boundaries, you might want to visit this page on setting boundaries.

With the friend dinner, one way you could have set a boundary is to decide that you didn't want your wife going to bed early to keep you from seeing your friends, and you could have gone to see them without her.  I'm not saying that's the right or wrong decision for you to make (I can imagine you would have caught heat for it) but in some situations you might have liked to consider that choice.

In tight quarters holiday situations, or on travel (or both at once!) it's sometimes hard to get away for 20 minutes.  Sometimes even just taking a break to go to the bathroom, help a relative in another room, handle a task with the kids your spouse doesn't want, can be a way to step away from a tense situation.

While stepping away can sometimes be a good solution, engagement with our pwBPD, particularly in the form of validation, can be effective.  Can you give us more detail on the situation?  Are you staying in a hotel?  With relatives?  What aspects of this trip are likely adding stress for your wife?

RC

[once removed]

hey steve,

some good advice here. any thoughts on whats been said so far and how you can apply it?

[slowsteve]

Not really.  I did end up having dinner with my friends without her.

It's just very hard treating another person with respect and kindness, and not getting that back in return.

Today was another lousy day.  After a tiring day yesterday, we decided we would have relaxing day.  Wife and kids went shopping.  My plan was to walk to a museum, have a quiet lunch, and do some work at the hotel.

But somehow she decided after shopping to rush uptown, go to museum, lunch, and then to another museum.  There wasn't enough time, everyone got upset and stressed again.  And I got caught in middle.

Kids now are leaving for my parents in the suburbs as they are sick of drama. 

But the good news is that kids get what's going on with mom.  It turns out grandma has been talking with oldest for a while about mom and her BPD, and we are all starting to gain some insight.

[Radcliff]

How old are your kids?  Is grandma your mom, or your wife's mom?

RC

[once removed]

having dinner with your friends/fulfilling your plans is certainly a solution when/if she doesnt want to come along.

But somehow she decided after shopping to rush uptown, go to museum, lunch, and then to another museum.  There wasn't enough time, everyone got upset and stressed again.  And I got caught in middle.

as you probably know, you get a lot of impulsivity with BPD traits. you can make firm plans, and she may struggle to stick to them.

what about at least one day where she makes the plans. then it doesnt so much matter if she sticks to them or not, youre just along for the ride, you may all enjoy yourselves whatever happens. then take the next day to do what you want to do, see what you want to see.

what do you think? would something like that be workable?

[slowsteve]

I let her make most of the plans already.  But she plans too much, then falls apart.

The kids are 17, 15, and 9.

Grandma is her mom.

And she's one who first brought up BPD with my 17 year old.

[Radcliff]

Did you end up going uptown with them to the museums and lunch?  How did you get caught in the middle?

In your opinion, is your mother-in-law's discussion of BPD with your 17 year old beneficial?  There are ways in which it might be, but there are also many pitfalls.  Can you tell us a little more about this?

RC