I have a chance, right this second to turn it around.

[Step3]

I took a break from here for a few weeks and apologize for not responding to anyone on previous messages.

I was a train wreck and became obsessed with getting my ex back. I basically turned in to a stalker by calling, texting and showing up at her house incessantly.  I'm embarrassed but have stopped. I read a helpful book and she came around. We have been talking and spending time together.

Last night she woke up from a nightmare about me harassing her and she needed to get a lawyer to make me stop in the nightmare. This is a result of my unwanted persistence. She went on to say I'm not good for her and that she needs to protect herself from someone who behaves that way. She asked me to respect her request but that she knows I won't.  

I told her I understood but tried reassuring her I wouldn't be crazy like that again and told her I need her to be less hurtful when she needs her space and I'll leave her alone until she's ready to return. There's a lot more but that's the summary. She didn't like that and went off on me saying I just need to wish her well and say goodbye.  So after a few minutes of trying to calm us both I said ok and told her this isn't how I anticipated the conversation but that I hope in the future and after some time of me leaving her alone, we can reconnect. That I hope to hear from her one day.

She responded with "You never like how our conversations go bc you're being held accountable and having to hear my feelings. Most people would welcome that if they're seriously wanting to change. "

I'm not sure if she's just getting things out and is gone now or if I'm supposed to respond and this I'd my moment to make things right.

I'm terrible at responding to her when I'm unsure. I go into panic mode. Any advice to what I can say to validate her?

[PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES]

PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members may appear frustrated but they are here for constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[Yellowpearl]

Hey! Sorry you are going through this as I understand how difficult it must be to not know what’s going on in her mind.

Just to get some background, may I ask after the perceived persistence from you that may have scared her off, how did she come around? What was that process like? What did you say to help her come around and how did she react initially?

There may be some things that she didn’t process during the conflict with her and during the time she was taking space, that she is reacting right now. The slightest misconception in their feelings from another can be something a BPD can hold onto.  Do you have any ideas so far of what you can say? I’m trying to see if it’s best to respond because if she is in irrational thinking mode, anything you say may not make sense to her and only add to the fire unless you say something rather short.

[Bnonymous]

Hi Step3,

I think she's pretty much spelled out what she needs you to say here. It sounds like she needs you to say something like "I welcome hearing your feelings. If you're willing to tell me more, I will listen". If you do decide to say this, then you'd need to back it up by just listening to what she has to say and resisting temptation to JADE: just listen. Do you feel you can (and want to) say something like that?

And I think respecting her space is imperative at this point - it's an opportunity to show her that you are committed to that. So, whatever you say now, if she doesn't reply, don't chase. And if she does a complete u-turn and says she doesn't want to talk anymore, I'd just say "Okay. If you change your mind, I'll be here to listen". Then let it go.

Good luck!

[Step3]

Hi Yellowpearl, thank you for responding. She came around after I emailed her a workbook about boundaries that I was working on and also a message  apologizing for being so invasive after she left me. I acknowledged that even though I didn't agree with her breaking up with me, that it didn't give me a right to be invasive of her boundaries. I left her know I missed her and that her absence is a consequence of my actions.  She responded two days later and we started talking. It moved fast after that and we were going to go to Seattle for a couples workshop, then things went bad because she thought I said I had been trying to meet other people (dating I guess), but that's not what I said. I waited a few days and clarified, she never said she understands but she came around this past Friday. Saturday and Sunday we spent the days bike riding, yesterday we planned more bike rides and talked about positive things up until 3 a.m. when she said I'm not good for her.

I know her well, and from past experiences when I've put my hands up and said goodbye, she comes back with things like what I quoted in my first post. Then sometimes I'm able to say the right thing and we're ok. I'm going to wait a while before I decide to respond because I know she's still pissed. But here's some of what I have

"I hear you. My behavior is not just a nightmare, it's reality.

And I take responsibility for my actions which I will never do again.

I welcome your feelings and didn't do well. I went straight into trying to prevent what you need, which is dismissive."

I'm stumped

[Step3]

Bnonymous,

Thank you. I wish I would have said that when she woke up from her bad dream. I am willing to say that,  I feel I need to also acknowledge what I did and let her know I feel bad about it. And yes, I'm fully willing to listen to her as well as back off. For once, I have no desire to be persistent with her for my sanity and for her peace of mind. I'm also afraid because before she said what I quoted in my post, she said she has nothing more to say... .yet she sent that. :/

[Yellowpearl]

Do we know the reasons she left in the first place before she came back around? It sounds like you handled things well considering the situation, in how you apologized for your actions while acknowledging you didn't agree with her decision to break up. When they leave us for a period of time, it can sure lead us to go in overdrive with our own emotions. I've sure gone through this and it's hard on the heart. I understand your uncertainty about whats to come.

The good thing is, and i'm learning this too, as we pick up more skills, it gets easier over time to enforce these boundaries and contain emotions in response to acting out or conflict situations.

It sounds like she is still processing what happened between you two. It may be a case where she acts fine, then out of nowhere, it comes up for her and she still wants to address it, leading you to validate her again or apologize again. This may be a rinse and repeat type of thing until she gets it.

That's a good idea to gather your thoughts before responding. No rush for you. I really like what you have already. I may leave out "My behavior is not just a nightmare, it's reality" Because it may reinforce this idea to her "his behavior is a nightmare" The word "nightmare" may be triggering. I like the last line you wrote. With "I take responsibility for my actions which I will never do again" maybe be an overstatement." I think keep it general as possible since she didn't call out any specific action, and usually, the less you say, the more impact.

Perhaps you could go with something like, of course you can change it up as well. "I hear you. I welcome your feelings and I didn't do well and I can see how that must have upset you. Instead of considering your needs, I handled things badly and that was wrong of me. I'm always here to listen whenever you're up for it." What do you think?
 

[Step3]

Yellowpearl,

She left to begin with because I ran out of time to buy her gummy bears. I needed to get home and start dinner for us and finish mowing my lawn. She thought I forgot about the gummies and accused me of lying about it. I just told her I didn't have time.

I did send her a message that was much different and validating I also sent what you said at the end of your message.

I get so overwhelmed in my own emotions that I get defensive with her and terrified she's going to leave.

[Step3]

The realization I'm having is that when she expresses concerns and a desire to leave, I panic and don't hear her. For her, that feels like confirmation that I'm not on her side and helps her want to leave even more.

[Yellowpearl]

I understand how hard it is to not get defensive or let your emotions take over. In situations like this, I have to usually keep telling myself "if I get a dismissive reply today, or they say they need space and want me to go away, I'll just i'll say okay and let them be" It's when we do this, and they see we are giving them space, is when a pwBPD can feel the most validated. It's when they see you are willing to let them leave is when they start become open again. Because you are validating their need rather than fighting it or getting defensive, which has been really hard for me but i'm working on it myself.

I'd be curious to know what message you sent, if you feel okay sharing!

[Step3]

I feel I'm much closer to being able to back off when she wants to leave. As stressful she expressed my persistence has been for her, it's also killing my inner world.

Here's what I sent her:

I hear you, my behavior has been highly inappropriate and invasive which I'm serious about changing. I hear you that it is reality and you feel concerned it will keep happening if you allow me to be part of your life. If I'm allowed in you life, I offer reassurance that when you need space, I'll gladly comply with love and respect and be welcoming when you are ready to talk again. And if it's a breakup, I'll be understanding of your needs because I love and care about you. I won't harass you. I'll be silent and respectful. I like our conversations, they create growth.  I just anticipated resolve and connection. I wasn't in a calm place to connect with you and I'm sorry for that.

Thank you very much for sharing how you feel.

I hear you, my behavior has been highly inappropriate and invasive which I'm serious about changing. I hear you that it is reality and you feel concerned it will keep happening if you allow me to be part of your life. If I'm allowed in you life, I offer reassurance that when you need space, I'll gladly comply with love and respect and be welcoming when you are ready to talk again. And if it's a breakup, I'll be understanding of your needs because I love and care about you. I won't harass you. I'll be silent and respectful. I like our conversations, they create growth.  I just anticipated resolve and connection. I wasn't in a calm place to connect with you and I'm sorry for that.

Thank you very much for sharing how you feel.

I welcome hearing your feelings, if you're willing to tell me more, I will listen.  If you still choose not to talk to me, I understand.

I didn't do well with your responses about your feelings, I can see how that made this more upsetting for you. I handled this poorly instead of considering your needs and that was wrong of me. I'm always here to listen whenever you're up for it.

I recognize I went into an attachment trigger and only worried about you leaving instead of validating your feelings. Recognizing this helps me know I'm heading in the right direction. I hope you'll be able to talk to me again and we'll both benefit from the work I'm committed to. I'm deeply sorry for thinking about myself.

[Yellowpearl]

I see you really used a lot of empathy which is a good thing. Sounds like you really got out what you needed to say, which part did you end up sending?

[Step3]

Yellowpearl,

I got out all I have. At first, I thought she's eventually going to come around but right this second, I dont think so.

I accidentally pasted the first paragraph twice. So everything you read is what I sent.

[Yellowpearl]

It is great that you got all of that out, sometimes when we do, it is a healthy way for us to process and cope with our own feelings. Least if she doesn’t reply right away as  she may put it in the back of her mind just to avoid being swept up by strong emotion, once she is ready and processes everything it’s possible she will see where you are coming from, with time. So it’s good you put it out there for her to know all this.

[Step3]

Yellowpearl,

Not long after I sent her that message, she called me and said she'd still like to spend Thanksgiving with me. I'm nervous but happy to have her over. I'm not sure why she wants to come after today since she made it clear I'm not good for her. I just dont want a holiday fight or a dinner then she's gone again. Yours and Bnonymos's advice was extremely helpful! Thank you both! Now I need to get my emotions together for Thanksgiving. I feel like showing her as you have advised, if I show her she's free to go... .she feels more safe with me.

[Yellowpearl]

Hey Step3, i’m very happy to hear that! It is amazing how just letting out your feelings in a validating way can elicit such a positive response. I hope we can get an update about how Thanksgiving dinner goes. That is the best mindset to have, any time we see them backing away, as we let them, the more calmer things will be for any future reconnecting. Basically I’ve learn that as you thought she was done, for them it may be more normal to be impulsive as they work out their feelings. And if we handle things calmly and have understanding of that then the easier it is for them to feel safer to come back. Cause no matter what their emotions and actions always gonna flip.

You got the right idea and approach!

[SlothMaiden]

Hi Step3!

I saw that your gf finally talked to you again and that you two have a plan for Thanksgiving. I hope it will go well too. Just be mindful about what you say and act because pwBPD are very sensitive to everything, even slight act of body language (like my exBPDbf). And Thanksgiving or any holiday might be their triggers too.

Anyway, what caught my interest here is that your gf had a nightmare about you. My exBPDbf often had nightmares & dreams about me too even before we even met IRL. And mostly it's about me getting kidnapped or disappeared somewhere he couldn't reach or find me. At one point, he dreamed that I got turned into a chair so he didn't know which one was me. I later concluded that it was his fear of abandonment that played the big role even in subconscious level. So I would advise you to take her nightmares seriously and see what is the underlying issue.

I understand that you are very persistent on getting her back so even if the breakup is not your fault but when she is in her "getting away" mode, you should consistently validate her feelings just like Yellowpearl said. However, you should not invalidate your own feeling too.

[Radcliff]

Step3,

You're getting some excellent advice here from Yellowpearl, Bnonymous, and SlothMaiden.  Many of us have found that as we start to understand our own fears and reactions and how they affect our pwBPD, we can learn how to avoid making things worse.  This realization and change in strategy can be a game-changer for us.

RC

[Bnonymous]

That's great news, Step3! Though it's understandable if you're feeling a bit wary and apprehensive about it, not quite knowing what to expect. I hope it goes well, provides an opportunity for both open communication and shared time of relaxation, fun and laughter. But you know to expected the unexpected here and, however it goes, I'm sure you will handle it well with your new stronger levels of self-awareness and consideration. Good luck! And keep us updated.

[Step3]

Yellowpearl, Slothmaiden, Bnonymos and Radcliff,

Hello! All of your advice greatly helped me pre-Thanksgiving. Thank you so much. I felt at a loss before that and wasn't so sure I'd hear from her again. Even with the message I sent her,  I started to accept maybe this time it was over.

Thanksgiving turned out wonderfully. The next day I had to work and she brought me lunch, found a jacket for me that I've been wanting and maintained contact with me throughout the day. Today we have plans that we are both very excited about.

I haven't been very consistent or responsive on this site so I'll commit to it now. I understand the topic of JADE is important so I'll check that out and take it in.

I want this relationship to work more than anything.  I know in order for that to happen, I'm choosing some challenges but it's worth it to me. She can be insulting when she's upset and I don't feel I should be disrespected like that and I know the more I allow it, the more she'll do it and she won't love or respect me.  So I do want to know how to request respectful communication all while validating her feelings.

It helped a lot to learn from you all that when I show her she's free to leave,  she feels more safe. I hate the thought of her leaving but I wouldn't want to be "caged" either.