Responding to accusations

[Ozzie101]

I mentioned this in this thread, that got too long:
https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=331645.0

My uBPDh has said several times that he believes my father or grandfather must have molested me or somehow abused me, then brainwashed me. That's the only way to explain why I'm so attached to my family and "always take their side."

My father and grandfather (who died before H and I met) are/were very moral, kind men who would never hurt me or anyone.

The first time he said it, I was stunned and denied it, telling him that was a horrible thing to say. The next couple of times I just flatly said it wasn't true and I wasn't going to discuss it. After that, stony silence. He hasn't mentioned it in a few weeks. Don't know if he's moved on or if he's still thinking it but keeping it to himself.

Has anyone else encountered something like this?

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[flourdust]

Is there any particular trigger that causes him to make that accusation? Have there been perceived conflicts with your family?

It sounds like you've managed to shut him down pretty quickly when this happens ... .any fallout from that?

[Ozzie101]

It's been a while since he mentioned that one -- at least a month, maybe more.

My family is a HUGE trigger for him and I've written about it in other threads.

It's a big, close family and his is very small and distant. He's an introvert and is overwhelmed by their numbers. I get that. He also doesn't understand why I would want to spend time with people like my parents and grandmother. He thinks it's "pathetic" that I was at the hospital for my sisters' kids' births and can remember their birthdays.

He's convinced that they all look down on him and his son because he was divorced and my stepson is not a blood relative. In most ways, he's treated the same. In the few ways he isn't treated exactly the same, it's because a) he hasn't been a part of the family for very long and they don't have the years-old bond with him yet and b) they don't want to overstep bounds with his other grandparents/families.
Similarly, H is treated the same way the other sons/brothers-in-law are but he doesn't see that. He thinks he's singled out.

He insists that my parents prefer my sisters to me. We're the black sheep. Nobody cares about us at all.

They really aren't able to do anything right with him. Even if they all agree to something we want, he finds a way to get upset. For instance, he complained that we'd invited my parents to dinner and they were never able to come. Well, we were finally able to make it work. Everyone had a great time. He was relaxed. There was good food and good conversation. Then it was over and he went into a real funk. Why? They left too early. Obviously they couldn't wait to get out of there. They would definitely stay longer with their other children. See? It's a sign that I'm the least favorite and they don't care about him either.

Anyway, when there have been issues or problems I have addressed them with the people involved.

The problem is, I don't handle them in the way H wants. He thinks I should chew them out, yell at them, use profanity, threaten to cut them out of my life. I don't work that way. I prefer a calm approach and a discussion where we both present sides and come to an understanding.

My refusal to "push back" the way he thinks I should just plays into things.

He thinks that my attachment to them, my sexual inexperience (I hadn't had many serious relationships and I believe in waiting until it's very serious), my even-keeled and calm nature are all signs I was sexually abused and brainwashed into forgetting and being overly devoted to them.

It's been suggested that he feels threatened by my family and is jealous of the relationship I have with them. He both wants that kind of relationship with a family and wants to have me all to himself. Jealous both ways. Maybe so.

Regardless, he hasn't mentioned the molestation thing in a while. I denied that pretty strongly the first time, flatly denied it the next couple and met the remaining times with stony silence. I'm hoping his's moved on but knowing him, it's probably rattling around in his thoughts and he's not mentioning it because he knows it doesn't get him anywhere.

[formflier]

Has anyone else encountered something like this?

Hey Ozzie101.

I don't often post on bettering, but because I used to experience wacky accusations, I think my experience is relevant.

You generally seem to do the right thing by shutting this down quickly.  Generally best to do one clear answer and then stop discussing it (think removing fuel from the fire... denials can be fuel)

https://bpdfamily.com/content/communication-skills-dont-be-invalidating

When BPDish stuff showed up in my relationship I believed I was doing my wife a favor by "proving" to her that her accusations couldn't be true... by proving myself a loyal husband.  What I actually was doing was invalidating her feelings.  So... .I would disprove that I slept with a certain woman.  Let's say I proved the story completely couldn't have happened.  

Generally the next story would be "bigger and badder" because my denials "fed the fire" and the fire got bigger.

So... next time it was a couple women, or I had a child with a woman, or I married a woman or I... .(if you are curious... .yes I have been accused of all of these things without any basis in fact)

Once I started to understand validation and invalidation and removed invalidation from my relationship, the accusations pretty much went away.  My life is much better.

https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=273415.0

You also may be better off to not deny or directly respond... .ask validating questions and express your shock and you need to consider what has been said.

   

Tough stuff... .

FF

[Ozzie101]

The not fighting back thing is something I'm really working on. Not easy, especially since I'm a natural-born debater. But putting it in the context of validating or invalidating feelings really does help. It seems counterintuitive, but the advice to avoid denials is very sound. I'll keep working on that.

[flourdust]

One way to think about this is that people with BPD are driven in large part by irrational fear of abandonment. Your husband may feel that if you are giving attention to your family, then it isn't going to him ... .so, obviously, you care less about him, you're on the verge of leaving him, and so forth. The solution is to triangulate -- draw up teams, with him on one side and your family on the other, and work to persuade you to be on his team.

Like I said, irrational.

Trying to show him that this is unreasonable is not likely to be productive. You've had some success in just firmly shutting him down and pushing back ... .but it sounds like you're worried that this is leading toward more conflict in the future. Another option is to try to address the root feeling instead of the surface behaviors and rationalizations.

Have you looked at any of the relationship tools on this site? I would particularly recommend the ones on Ending Conflict and Listening with Empathy. These are challenging skills to master, especially if you're being triggered by nasty accusations about people you love. But it can help to figure out a way to "hear" your husband (and make him feel heard) without taking sides in his battle. Take a look -- anything there resonate with you?

[Ozzie101]

I have read those -- multiple times. You're right. It's really not easy to do in the moment when he's making accusations about me and about people I love. But it is something I'm working on. And I am getting better on ending conflict -- not fighting back. It hasn't stopped his dysregulations or always lessened their length, but he's not as over-the-top as he was for a while and there haven't been any more violent episodes.

And I've been pretty good at reading the emotions and thoughts behind what he says.

I think I'm at a point right now where I'm just not sure what to do. A part of me wants to keep working on things, to give things a chance to get better and encourage him to get help. But a part of me is already starting to disengage and prepare myself emotionally, mentally and physically for being on my own. We've only been married 2 years. No shared children. I don't want things to get worse and I'm afraid they might. Especially since I really don't see any resolution with the family situation. He and they just have some fundamentally different ways of operating/seeing things. They are who they are and while I know them well and know where they're coming from, he continues to see anything they say or do in the worst possible light.

Case in point: I texted my dad to ask him which salesman was best to work with at a local car dealership (owned by a childhood friend of his). His reply: I'm not sure. But if you want, I can ask Owner.
I read it as: I don't really know but if you're wanting to go look at cars there, I can ask Owner who he would recommend or ask him to take care of you.
Husband read: I don't know. I don't care. If I HAVE to, I can ask him but I don't want to put myself out.
That one provoked a big outburst on his part.

None of that will change. And I will not cut them out of my life.

Then there's the fact that I'm becoming more aware that, even on little things like what to cook for dinner, I find myself second-guessing and nearly panicking, trying to think of what to fix that won't upset him. His moods and likes change frequently. If he's not happy with dinner, he's more likely to dysregulate. When I leave the decision up to him, he gets sullen and pouts and can't decide -- or complains that he can't look up recipes because there are too many and he gets overwhelmed. It seems like every decision and every action is starting to revolve around not setting him off. Yes, I do succeed sometimes. Not always. But as a result, I'm not happy.

I don't know how that's going to improve. Which keeps telling me this train is headed for a cliff. Unless I can find a way to stop it.

[once removed]

Case in point: I texted my dad to ask him which salesman was best to work with at a local car dealership (owned by a childhood friend of his). His reply: I'm not sure. But if you want, I can ask Owner.
I read it as: I don't really know but if you're wanting to go look at cars there, I can ask Owner who he would recommend or ask him to take care of you.
Husband read: I don't know. I don't care. If I HAVE to, I can ask him but I don't want to put myself out.
That one provoked a big outburst on his part.

any way to avoid sharing these communications directly?

I don't know how that's going to improve. Which keeps telling me this train is headed for a cliff. Unless I can find a way to stop it.

people with BPD traits are hypersensitive to signs of potential abandonment. he may not consciously realize it, but he is probably reading your disengagement, and reacting to it, on some level.

[Ozzie101]

any way to avoid sharing these communications directly?

Yes. But not in this case. He asked directly what my dad's answer was (in a normal tone) and I matter-of-factly told him. I didn't see anything wrong with it. I had no idea in the moment that it would trigger him.

Other times there have been communications, I've paraphrased or put it in a way I think he'll accept. But then I also end up feeling like I'm hiding things from him. Not the they say anything wrong or bad. I'm just learning how he's going to read them.

He probably does sense my pulling back. I'm not as affectionate or playful as I used to be. I can feel myself becoming more reserved with him. It's a self-protection thing. And it's hard to be playful with someone who sits and glares and acts like a powder keg.

I've read a lot about conflict and I have been working on it. The frustrating thing is, I don't lash out at him. I don't turn his nastiness around on him. I can't do that to him -- or to anyone, really. Not to sound like a goody two shoes, but I just can't be deliberately mean or nasty to other people. I can't make fun of people. I can't belittle or degrade or make people feel bad (on purpose). That's part of what hurts so much. He does these things to me while I don't do them to him. When I did argue back, it was calmly. But now I'm pulling back on doing that too since I know any kind of arguing just makes it worse.

[formflier]

I don't know how that's going to improve. Which keeps telling me this train is headed for a cliff. Unless I can find a way to stop it.

By picking a way of relating to him that works for you, is "healthy" and consistently applying it.

This can get better.

Resist the urge to catastrophize.  Resist the urge to save people from their own decisions.

You can decide to ride a train or not.  If your husband is going to drive one off a cliff, you can ask him not to.  However, the reality is your decision is about whether or not to ride the train with him.

FF

[formflier]

Yes. But not in this case. He asked directly what my dad's answer was (in a normal tone) and I matter-of-factly told him. I didn't see anything wrong with it. I had no idea in the moment that it would trigger him.
 

Resist "stinkin thinkin" that says you don't have choices.

"What did your Dad say in the text?"

you:  "As I recall... .he offered to contact the owner."

him:  "tell me exactly what he said."

you:  "This seems important to you.  Help me understand the interest in this."

him:  "blah blah you must tell me everything"

you:  "Rest assured if I desire your opinion about my Dad's private texts to me.  I'll ask."

don't discuss further.

You have options.  You may not have options "he will approve of"... .or be happy with.  Let him sort that out.

FF

[Ozzie101]

True. I did have options and didn't have to tell him. Thing was, it seemed just normal, natural and casual. He wasn't showing any signs of being in a mood. As soon as I told him what he said, though, he got quiet and the rain cloud appeared. Before that, no warning. If I'd been on alert I would have done what you suggested. I'm more careful now, even when he seems upbeat.

[flourdust]

It sounds like you are seeing improvement! That's really good. I can hear your frustration with the situation ... .but incremental improvement over time is about the best possible outcome, so I don't want to gloss over that!

I also highlighted a line below -- this is mentioned in our lessons, but it's worth repeating and reinforcing -- tools like validation work best when applied in less dysregulated settings -- think of it as trying to build up empathic rapport and lower his natural state of distress. This will hopefully pay off over time with less extreme reactions on his part when he is triggered.

It's very, very difficult to successfully apply these tools when a dysregulation is happening. And it can be extremely stressful (for you) to be desperately grasping for the right validating statement to make that will turn things around while he is raging at you. Those are times when more self-protective actions like disengaging can be more appropriate. I think you have a sense of this already, so I just want to reinforce that!

I have read those -- multiple times. You're right. It's really not easy to do in the moment when he's making accusations about me and about people I love. But it is something I'm working on. And I am getting better on ending conflict -- not fighting back. It hasn't stopped his dysregulations or always lessened their length, but he's not as over-the-top as he was for a while and there haven't been any more violent episodes.

[Ozzie101]

That's really good advice, flourdust. I can see how the distinction (validation in calmer times, protection in dysregulation) is important and valuable. I'll remember that.