BPD bio mom is relentless

[Before you can make things better, you have to stop making them worse...]

Hi everyone. It’s been a long time since I’ve been on here. I currently am engaged and set to get married in a month. I have one son with an ex whom I have an amicable coparenting relationship with. My fiancé used to be married to the devil. This is no joke.

She has five kids with four men. Two were born during their relationship that aren’t his. The first was adopted. Then she had his son. And then the next baby that wasn’t his was his last straw. She’s still withthat other man.

She made false abuse allegations when he tried to leave after he found out she’d cheated again. He got a nice DV arrest and record. She forged his signature for waiving his right to be present at the divorce, so she took him for everything. Even managed to get herself $2,300 a month in child and spousal support. They went back to court, she cried about how scared she was of him, he still had to pay all that money. He had to leave the state just to make enough to justify it.

Right before we got together, she wanted him to come back to her. I guess the baby daddy was unemployed, so he was useless. He told her no, and when she found out about me, she said he was never allowed to see his “kids” again and I was a home wrecker (?). He has one kid. She keeps insisting hisex SD (16) is his kid because he helped raise her. SD uses every visitation as an excuse to spy, send pictures and videos of us, keep her brother (11) from telling us anything about their mom (though we don’t ask, he sometimes tells us stories of things that happen). So fiancé said SD is not allowed at our house anymore. She is just like her mom too, calling him a cheater, drunk and a cowardly abuser. But now I’m the horrible person who made him throw away a child after raising her “all her life”.  I know she’s just mad because now she has no control over her son when he is with us.


Anyway, she tried messaging me to tell me all about how horrible fiancé was to her, and I told her I wasntt interested in
Anything she had to say. Apparently fiancé should have been angry that I disrespected the mother of his child in such a way.  Fiancé does not wish to talk to her because she gets him angry, I coached him on boundaries. I told him not to respond to anything she texts unless it is a place for drop off or pick up. Don’t take phone calls since she twists everything anyone says to fit her little narrative. He leaves her number on mute and reminds her every time she rants that he asked her to not text about anything but drop off or pick up. We are saving these for court so he can get some sort of court order to limit her to a coparenting app.

No response has enraged her further. Now I’m the reason they can’t coparent. I’m crazy and psychotic and obsessed with her son because I told her she had no say in whether I picked up her son for fiancé and that I’d even asked a lawyer. My fiancé is obsessed with her, doesn’t ever stop talking about her, and I have no pride for staying with him when he’s stuck in the past (this was because she said she had a baby and had cancer, so he told his son that it was neat he had a baby sister and I asked what her name is). Neither one of us acknowledged her cancer, so she keeps texting constantly about how horribly he’s treating a woman with cancer. She still gets no response.

Then after I told her she had no legal right to not allow her son to come with me, she said she could prevent it because her son can’t stand me or my son and wishes I would go away (this is a kid who brings me homemade presents, asks me to play with him, asks to stay longer almost every week, and once told me he wished I was his mom). I know anything he tells her is just to keep himself safe and out of trouble. But I hate that she is forcing him into the middle like this.

Anyway, at the end of each rant, she tells US to leave HER alone. That I’m a nobody and a temporary girlfriend. And fiancé needs to put his son before me and my controlling ways that clearly make him miserable (because apparently he secretly told her all of this during some fantasy phone conversation that isn’t on my phone bill?) Oh, and I need Jesus. Because my existence is apparently ruining hers. But ahe also doesn’t care about me and never thinks about me and wishes I’d stop feeling so threatened by her.

Puke. I’m trying to not let it get to me because I see right through it, but sometimes it manages to hit a nerve and I start doubting myself.

[slanie]

Hi everyone. It’s been a long time since I’ve been on here. I currently am engaged and set to get married in a month. I have one son with an ex whom I have an amicable coparenting relationship with. My fiancé used to be married to the devil. This is no joke.

She has five kids with four men. Two were born during their relationship that aren’t his. The first was adopted. Then she had his son. And then the next baby that wasn’t his was his last straw. She’s still withthat other man.

She made false abuse allegations when he tried to leave after he found out she’d cheated again. He got a nice DV arrest and record. She forged his signature for waiving his right to be present at the divorce, so she took him for everything. Even managed to get herself $2,300 a month in child and spousal support. They went back to court, she cried about how scared she was of him, he still had to pay all that money. He had to leave the state just to make enough to justify it.

Right before we got together, she wanted him to come back to her. I guess the baby daddy was unemployed, so he was useless. He told her no, and when she found out about me, she said he was never allowed to see his “kids” again and I was a home wrecker (?). He has one kid. She keeps insisting hisex SD (16) is his kid because he helped raise her. SD uses every visitation as an excuse to spy, send pictures and videos of us, keep her brother (11) from telling us anything about their mom (though we don’t ask, he sometimes tells us stories of things that happen). So fiancé said SD is not allowed at our house anymore. She is just like her mom too, calling him a cheater, drunk and a cowardly abuser. But now I’m the horrible person who made him throw away a child after raising her “all her life”.  I know she’s just mad because now she has no control over her son when he is with us.


Anyway, she tried messaging me to tell me all about how horrible fiancé was to her, and I told her I wasntt interested in
Anything she had to say. Apparently fiancé should have been angry that I disrespected the mother of his child in such a way.  Fiancé does not wish to talk to her because she gets him angry, I coached him on boundaries. I told him not to respond to anything she texts unless it is a place for drop off or pick up. Don’t take phone calls since she twists everything anyone says to fit her little narrative. He leaves her number on mute and reminds her every time she rants that he asked her to not text about anything but drop off or pick up. We are saving these for court so he can get some sort of court order to limit her to a coparenting app.

No response has enraged her further. Now I’m the reason they can’t coparent. I’m crazy and psychotic and obsessed with her son because I told her she had no say in whether I picked up her son for fiancé and that I’d even asked a lawyer. My fiancé is obsessed with her, doesn’t ever stop talking about her, and I have no pride for staying with him when he’s stuck in the past (this was because she said she had a baby and had cancer, so he told his son that it was neat he had a baby sister and I asked what her name is). Neither one of us acknowledged her cancer, so she keeps texting constantly about how horribly he’s treating a woman with cancer. She still gets no response.

Then after I told her she had no legal right to not allow her son to come with me, she said she could prevent it because her son can’t stand me or my son and wishes I would go away (this is a kid who brings me homemade presents, asks me to play with him, asks to stay longer almost every week, and once told me he wished I was his mom). I know anything he tells her is just to keep himself safe and out of trouble. But I hate that she is forcing him into the middle like this.

Anyway, at the end of each rant, she tells US to leave HER alone. That I’m a nobody and a temporary girlfriend. And fiancé needs to put his son before me and my controlling ways that clearly make him miserable (because apparently he secretly told her all of this during some fantasy phone conversation that isn’t on my phone bill?) Oh, and I need Jesus. Because my existence is apparently ruining hers. But ahe also doesn’t care about me and never thinks about me and wishes I’d stop feeling so threatened by her.

Puke. I’m trying to not let it get to me because I see right through it, but sometimes it manages to hit a nerve and I start doubting myself.

[david]

My ex was very good at making me doubt myself. After we separated I built boundaries for me. I only communicate through email. That helped me to keep my emotions in check and not let her get to me. My ex did not like that and has complained in court, to custody evaluators, co parent counselors, etc about it. What I realized was email does not have the emotions other forms of communication have and this puts her at a disadvantage. She can't read me like she used to be able to and then discombobulate me.

[slanie]

David, that’s smart. He’s tried limiting her access. If he blocks her, his son disappears (for weeks). If he asks her to use an app or email, she says she won’t be bullied and if she can’t get in touch with him at all times, he doesn’t see his son. She has zero regard for boundaries and feels entitled to do as she pleases because she is the “mother”.

[Nope]

It sounds to me like it will take a solid court order without room for loopholes to take away some of her sense of entitlement. Forcing her through a court order to use an app for communication is a good strategy. My DH's ex sees all boundaries as bullying as well. Being able to state that he is simply following the court order has cut down on that a lot.

Also be prepared to have consequences for violations written into the court order. Because a judge will only give her a slap on the wrist for contempt unless the order specifically dtates what is to happen if contempt occurres.

Make sure your DH gathers any evidence that she withholds SS for weeks. He can ask the court for specific weekly contact. Just remember that anything he asks for definitely has to apply to both parents.

I'm sorry that his ex is projecting so many of her own feelings and actions on to you. It's tough being on the receiving end of so much negative energy. I've been there. When DH and I had our baby, the ex told my SD that everyone hated that they were going to have to put up with me now because they couldn't get rid of me since I'd now brought a child into it. (A year earlier she got "accidentally" pregnant with her fifth child by a fourth dad in yet another attempt to hold on to a failing relationship.) Both my SD and SS are old enough to see that their mom accuses others of doing things that she is actually doing.

[slanie]

Nope, thanks for the reply. I’m relieved to hear other people are accused of bullying when setting boundaries. The gaslighting is enough to make me doubt myself. Like, am I being a bully? But no, I know I’m not.

We talked to SS this weekend and asked if he wants to be in our wedding. He said absolutely yes, so I feel a new fight is going to be coming soon.

And yes! She gets pregnant every time a man is on the verge of leaving her! Even fiancé “caused a miscarriage” after he demanded a paternity test for a pregnancy he knew he could not have caused. She gets  “accidentally “ pregnant more than anyone I’ve heard of!


I picked up SS on Friday, and she got out of the car (she’s never done this before), stood in the back while the trunk was open for SS bags on my SUV. She just stared at me through the rear view mirror with this creepy look on her face. Her hair was frizzy, she had dark circles under her eyes and she had no expression. Just a creepy stare. I don’t know what she expected me to do, but I left as soon as possible. She stood in the parking lot alone just staring. Her three other kids all had their noses pressed to the glass watching too. I don’t know if I was supposed to Pity her or be intimidated, but either way, she never said a word about any of it all weekend

[worriedStepmom]

Welcome to the evil stepmother club! I've been a stepmom for 6 years now, and uBPDmom continues to be threatened by my existence. I was once subjected to an over-the-top tirade because I had the gall to pack a lunch for SD while I was also making lunch for my two bio-kids.  uBPDmom was absolutely irate that I was "stealing [her] kid one peanut butter sandwich at a time'".  She is fairly relentless in her attempts to alienate SD against me, but SD never fell for it.  I think it helped that I have never spoken negatively about her mom in front of SD.

A few years ago, I cut off all contact with uBPDmom.  I put it in writing that if she continued to text or call me I would file harrassment charges (and I mean it).  She can communicate with my H - it's his job, not mine. At drop-offs/pick-ups, there's no real reason for us to speak... .except for the occasional time she shows up to get SD when it isn't her weekend and H isn't here.  (Last time I gently said "It isn't your weekend," so now she sends waif-y texts to  H every time she's supposed to pick up SD to ask if she's "allowed" to get her daughter and begging him to make me stay far away from her car because I am mean and scary.)

I highly recommend that you cut contact, if you are still getting any communication from her.

How is your stepson handling all the crazy?  My SD started showing signs of stress around the time she turned 11 - it just got to be too much.  We got her into therapy over mom's strenuous objections.  The therapist really understands what is going on and has helped SD.  H also went back to court for primary custody.

We make a joke out of a lot of the crazy.  I tell people that I've been trying to prove I'm really the Evil Queen/Wicked Stepmother, but so far only uBPDmom believes me, so I must need to try harder.  (SD always giggles and tells me I'm not wicked.)  H teases me that I'm his attack dog - all I have to do is snarl in uBPDmom's direction and she freaks out.   Joking about it helps me re-center myself and realize that I'm not actually a mean and unstable person.  I'm just on the outskirts of
dealing with one.

[slanie]

Worriedstepmom,

I have told his ex to not contact me or I will press harassment charges. I told her my lawyer says I have all I need to get a restraining order, and she turned that around into me threatening her and how creepy it is that I have a lawyer for her child (I have no idea, she flips everything she reads into something insane). Then I don’t respond which in her mind proves how right she is? I don’t know. She was insistent on having my number until I told her she could only contact me in life threatening emergency and I wasn’t going to tolerate anything else. Now apparently getting my number isn’t as appealing.

She does contact fiancé, and he usually ignores. The times I take the phone and respond are when I can tell he is going to lose his temper. I am better in writing at keeping neutral firm replies. It limits the fights they get into since I basically block her from getting under his skin like she knows how to do. That’s basically why she hates me. I have managed to keep fiance completely out of her clutches so all she can do is send dozens of texts calling him and me every name in the book and then eventually stops when she has no response or only receives a “please don’t text unless about where to pick up son” if it gets too annoying. Our concern is showing the court that she is engaging in these attacks, harassing us, and we have asked her to stop without encouraging any more drama.

I know he is the one who should deal with her, but our relationship is stronger when he is not engaged in a battle with her over custody or money.

[JNChell]

Hey there, slanie. Welcome back to the community. I don’t usually post here as I don’t have solid advice to offer when it comes to family law, but I do read on this board daily. Your fiancé’s ex sounds like a real challenge to put it mildly. It sounds like she is dysregulating more than she isn’t lately. It also sounds like her chaos is leaking into your relationship a bit and that you’d like it to stop. Rightfully so. I feel for you.

Something that stuck out to me from your latest post is that you sometimes take the reigns on the conversation between your fiancé and his ex. I’m not sure if you’ve ever read about triangulation here, but it’s an important thing to be aware of. Here’s a link to read and think about.

https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=108440.0

You’re trying to support your SO. That’s commendable, but he needs to be able to take this on himself. You can support him on the back end of the situation, but I recommend encouraging him to deal with his ex on the front lines. This is actually important that he do so.

Does he know that you’re a member here? Have you considered encouraging him to join here and become a member himself, or at least inviting him to explore the tools and support that are available within this community? My takeaway from the situation thus far is that he would benefit from the communication tools that are available here. Everyone involved may benefit from him being proactive here, most importantly being the child.

We all understand here at some level what you’re going through. His ex sounds like a fairly severe case. She’s not capable of helping to improve the dynamics of the situation. Your fiancé needs to be proactive here. The more that you take the reigns for him when he becomes overwhelmed by his ex, the more it becomes a risk for this to become a pattern that simply won’t work out. Triangulation can really muddy the waters and allow things to get lost in translation.

I think that it’s commendable to support your SO. I hope that you’ll read the link, form questions or opinions and bring them back to the board. We’re happy to support you.

[slanie]

JNChell, I appreciate the link, and yes I’ve studied the triangle at various points. I can see your point, and I do think he needs to get more proactive. I’ve tried to point him in the direction of taking the reigns, but one negative comment about me, and he goes off on her.

I doubt he will ever come here, it’s not his nature, but I can definitely print articles and send him links. We are in premarital counseling together, focusing on blended families, and his toxic ex and how to minimize her involvement in our lives. Before we got together, he was even considering giving up his custody completely  because he just had no idea how he was ever going to survive with her being in his life. He’d ended up suicidal nearly after she went after him legally, financially, socially, posted stuff online about him, took over every email account, took out credit cards in his name... .it just was a nightmare. I think he has come a long way since being with me, but I do agree that he needs to do more on his own.

ETA: I don’t mean he was suicidal when we got together. I mean in the years post divorce when he felt like she was Never going to stop and he didn’t feel like fighting anymore.

[JNChell]

Thanks for clarifying more of the dynamic. It sounds like he’s protective of you. It’s already been established that you’re protective of him. Maybe this can be the focal point of a conversation that needs to happen with the outcome being roles that need to be set. From a place of compassion. It’s not my intention to be intrusive, but he really needs to take this head on in a healthy way. You know him. How do you think that you can help this along from the back end of the situation? If he’s not willing to get involved in a place like this, and you want to help by removing yourself as much as possible from that situation, what does that look like to you?

[GaGrl]

Welcome to the community... .it's a tremendous source of support.

One would think that it gets better as the children becomes adults. It does not.  There are still narrowness and shared grandchildren and all the dynamics involved.

My DH's ex exhibits much of what you descibe. I am educated, professional, confident and not tolerant of her manipulations. She married DH as an uneducated, young, savvy-smart young woman from a third-world country seeing a path to the U.S. She has been overheard by family members stating that she married DH to come to the U.S.  He, on the other hand, was in love/lust and able to provide all she wanted.

The history of the relationship is sad - constant, blatant infidelities.  Thirty years later, long separated, by the time I began a relationship with DH, she thought she could have her separate life and boyfriends the way she pleased - PLUS an ex on the side to fulfill all her needs. That was blown up with our marriage, and she has never forgiven me.

I drew strong boundaries... .no calls to our house... .if DH needs to deal with her now, it is on his own phone, outside our home time (I can recite the Great Breast Cancer Scare incident... .it was a cyst... .involved multiple hysterical calls each day, lawyers involved re: executor responsibilities, etc.).

All I can say is... .boundaries made from concertina wire... .use the judicial system ( DH's ex was leery of the courts), and create a loving, supportive, accepting, and safe environment for the damaged adult children and grandchildren separate and apart from the BPD's household.

[worriedStepmom]

I don't know how the courts in your jurisdiction rule, but H's lawyer told him this summer that the court didn't care how uBPDmom treated him or me.  They only care about how she treats SD11... .or how her interactions with others impact SD11.

Most of the evidence we used to get temporary orders in H's favor was either information told to H by SD or copies of texts SD's mom sent to SD (we pay for the phone and regularly check to see if SD is violating house technology rules).  Most of what uBPDmom sent to H - while disturbing - was either a duplicate of what we already knew SD was dealing with, or was only pointed at us, and so didn't matter to the court.

But, like you, I've had enough of uBPDmom.  More than enough.  After some lovely advice from here, I pointed out to H that I thought we were being worn down by the sheer volume of crazy (even though he doesn't respond) and taking the easy way out in some decisions, which was not in SD's best interests.  We're working on a plan right now on how to implement new boundaries to keep much more of the crazy out of our home.  It's time.

Does your H want more custody?  Is your SS exhibiting any signs he's having difficulty with mom's crazymaking?

[slanie]

JNChell, I don’t mean to suggest he’d be unwilling to come here. I mean, he doesn’t really use the internet. He does construction work. He’s hands on and brilliant with building anything he puts his mind to. He doesn’t look up things like I do or question psychology at the level I do. He doesn’t text or send email, preferring to talk on the phone. I’ve sent him links before to read, and he takes my concerns seriously. But I know he hates talking about her and spending any thought on her outside of immediate anger or distress when she launches her insults. He’s decided he’s given her enough of his life and she’s not stealing any of our happiness. Unfortunately that doesn’t always work when it comes to his son. I see him as someone who just wants everyone to be happy. He will do the work. But he will need someone to guide him in the right direction. If I remove myself, I guess I fear that she will start her manipulations again and find a way to get between us. That’s my own demon, but it’s a very real fear of mine.

Worriedstepmom,  in the beginning, the court stuff had to do with spousal support. She told fiancé he owed like $30k in arrears. So he sent her money every week thinking he was on the verge of going to jail. The math didn’t work out, so I looked into it and discovered he’d overpaid by at least $10K. I also found out she’s been presenting herself as married for a couple years to the man she lives with and has two kids with.and she’s lied to the attorney general. So the lawyer is to take her back to court to try to recoop some of the money he shouldn’t have had to pay her (through income withholding).

 But since we’ve been getting SS as much as we have, it’s obvious she’s at least emotionally abusive. They live six people in a one bedroom trailer house. She puts SS on the phone and screams at him to tell DH that he hates him and doesn’t want to come to our house. She changed the pick up location one week and didn’t tell DH. He sat over an hour at the gas station, calling every number he had for her. SS was waiting at his grandmas heartbroken thinking his dad didn’t want to see him. When he picked up SS, he did show him the calls and texts he sent to show him that he was there and BPD had not told him where to go. She took SS phone away, so DH has no contact except through her. SS adores his dad, idolizes him, and clearly is happy at our house. He’s loyal to his mom, but he did tell DH that he tell her what she wants to hear because she’d whoop him if he said anything nice. So, yes, there is strong interest in getting more custody. We have a four bedroom house. We are getting married in a few weeks. It’s a stable loving home.

[Panda39]

My SO and I went through much of the same things you are experiencing.  For us the key was to document what was going on for the court, disengage with the ex as much as possible, "parallel parent" we do what we do at our house and she does what she does at her house, and radical acceptance that she is who she is and that will not change without major work through therapy.

I'm going to circle back around to what David mentioned at the beginning and that is communication through email only.  Email has many advantages, one is that you can document what is going on (what the wife is saying, that she is withholding visitation, that she is not doing what is best for SS), the second is that is slows everything down so you can think before reacting.  Is the email all bashing you or your fiance then don't respond to it (disengage).  File that email away to demonstrate a pattern of behavior.  Only respond to things specifically about your SS ignore anything else and always respond keeping in mind the email could be used in court... .use BIFF (Brief, Informative, Friendly (at least polite), Firm).  Communicating via email only also makes it so you can check in when you want to... .so you are not responding to and being interrupted by a ton of calls and text messages. Email Communication only is also a boundary to protect you and your fiance from intrusion. One other added benefit to email is that your SS will not witness arguments between his parents.

My SO's ex actually talked about my SO's "anger" in court and that the kids witnessed an argument that was traumatic for them... .umm that argument was between them on email, as my SO pointed out in court.  How could the kids have heard anything other than the tapping of a keyboard?

The ex may make good on her threat to withhold visitation if you go to Email Communication but the thing is what she really wants is interaction, engagement, and yes even conflict (negative attention is still attention) with your fiance.  So if you set the email boundary, stick with it (enforce it by not responding to phone calls & text messages) and only communicate via email then where else is she gonna go but to email?  Beware/be aware that when setting a boundary things can get worse before they get better.

I often share the below simplified analogy regarding boundaries I think it makes it simple to see the dynamic that can occur (this shows how things can get worse before they get better)

We've all seen this at the grocery store... .

Mom's value: I want to take good care of my child and that includes eatting good healthy food.
Mom's boundary: Sweets are to be had at special occasions only
Mom's Action: Not buy sweets for her child while grocery shopping

A little kid asks mom for candy, mom says no so the kid pouts.  Little kid asks mom again for some candy, mom says no again so the kid whines.  Little kid asks mom again for some candy, mom says no for the third time, this time kid has a full on melt down screaming tantrum (what we call an Extinction Burst). What happens if mom gives in and gets the candy?  That little kid has just learned that having a screaming tantrum will get them what they want.  What happens if mom doesn't give in? The kid learns that no means no and he gives up.

This does not mean however that the little kid won't ask again the next time mom and he go to the grocery store... .the kid will test the boundary again and so will the person with BPD in your life.  The key here is to always be consistent with your boundary.

More on Boundaries... .
https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=61684.0
https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=167368.0

If the ex withholds visitation, just send a nice polite email to her about missing the visitation and keep those emails, it shows she is withholding visitation, that your fiance can be calm and cool during this, that he has the desire to see his son... .all of which looks good for him in court.  You now have a paper trail documenting that mom is not following the court order, that you can use should you go back to court.

I've gotta run, I hope the above information has been helpful,
Panda39