Part 2: My adult daughter shows traits of BPD - what can I do to help her?

[JeanGenie]

Part 1 is here:  https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=331612.0

Hello again all!
Thank you again for all your responses to my posts. I know it's been a little while since I posted, but I do hope that you are all ok, and got though Xmas alright.

Just to touch on those replies I haven't responded to yet - thank you DharmaGate for your lovely comments. It was really heart warming to read your post! How have things been between you and your daughter over the holidays? It's such a hard time, I think. A lot of emotion to contend with for everyone. I must admit to not really 'doing' Xmas this year. Luckily I no longer work in retail as there really is no escape when faced with putting on a happy Xmas smile from about October onwards!

My daughter has been to collect some more of her stuff over the last week or so. She notifies me via email to say when she's coming, then mostly doesn't turn up or comes another time. She seems to not take a lot when she's here. Thanks for your last post too FB - I hope you are ok? - I tried to talk to her the next time she came. Initially she was cold, but polite. I asked her if we could talk, she told me no, leave her alone, and that as I'd wanted emotional distance (I don't, and have never said anything like that to her), she was giving it to me, and reiterated what she said last time about Cutting off forever. I tried to say that I would be here for her when ever she felt ready and that no contact was not what I wanted. She became more agitated and asked me to go and leave her alone, started shouting so I left her to get on in peace.

She has come again a couple of times. She is coldly polite. I have tried to just say hi, and ask if she needs any help (always no), and then leave her to get her stuff. Today I had an email from her saying she was going to come again, which she did. She again only took a few things, and then went off. I have received quite a few emails from her since she left. First one is to tell me she has finished for the day, then I have a long one full of horrible stuff.

I am finding it hard to understand how she can be so 'together', and yet say such things. I also am now wondering if she is the one who is right (Argh!). This last email was full of her telling me I was borderline. That because I have not got help
 to 'change' myself, this was the reason why she wants nothing more to do with me. (She obviously then berates me for being totally selfish, I have always been selfish, never done anything  for her etc etc, and on and on). I am so low in confidence now, I wonder can she be right? She is extremely articulate, even in her rants sometimes. She makes me think she must be the one who's got it right? I think I'm losing my mind sometimes with trying to work out what is right,what is her twisting things, and constantly question myself about everything.

All that confusion aside (I have never really been confident in myself), I do relate to what you have said about grieving Enabler. I have read other threads that also touch on this.

Grieving for the bond we used to have. Grief about the fact that after bringing her up on my own with all the responsibility that entailed, struggling to keep well, bettering myself to make her proud of me, that in her adulthood we don't have that tight happy, easygoing relationship I thought we would have.  I remember looking forward to a time when stresses were less, but this never happened. Grieving for her having such a hard time, and now trying to accept that I need to let her go and try to heal away from me.

Enabler, I can only imagine how difficult it must be to try and support multiple family members with differing levels of emotional sensitivities. It must be really difficult to try and think about how each person is seeing or taking things, and not being able to talk things through with your partner with regards to helping your daughter is really hard. Again, the 'festive' season can bring such a huge element of expectation, and with that comes the inevitable disappointments. I have no words of wisdom for you as you have had for me unfortunately (sorry). But what a lovely dad your girls have got! I spoke to my dad on Xmas day, he asked if I had seen my daughter, when I said no, and just briefly gave him the current scenario he immediately changed the subject after saying 'well, never mind - don't let it bother you'! He does make me laugh, so unable to cope with any emotional stuff! Your daughters obviously have an empathic and understanding dad who they can turn to. That's a huge thing.

Well, I had better stop rambling on (again!). A friend told me to imagine a 'rainbow cloak', and when faced with dealing with something unpleasant/confronting etc,to imagine that I put it on and the 'bad stuff', just bounces off the cloak.  I'm not sure how effective it is, but I'm not reading anything else my daughter sends to me until I've mastered the art of 'rainbow cloaking'  

Big   to anyone who needs one. Thank you for being there BPD family xx

Our objective is to better understand the struggles our child faces and to learn the skills to improve our relationship and provide a supportive environment and also improve on our own emotional responses, attitudes and effectiveness as a family leaders

[Feeling Better]

Hi JeanGenie
I’m glad you managed to get through the Christmas period, and I’m sorry to hear that your daughter carried on fetching her stuff. I hope that you feel proud of yourself for trying to talk to her under such difficult circumstances, you know that you tried your best, and I’m really sorry that she wasn’t prepared to listen to you.
 I wonder if she was projecting when she said that it was you who wanted the emotional distance, and actually, reading what you wrote that she put in her last email, it sounds like there’s some projection going on there too.

I understand how crazy making all of this is, my son also is extremely articulate, so much so that he got me believing all that he said about me, it certainly got me thinking that he was right and that it was me who had a problem and needed help, and yes, it destroyed my self confidence and my belief in myself. Just like your daughter is doing to you. It is not you JG.

I hope that you continue to be strong in the forthcoming days, you are dealing with this so well, you recognise where you are and what you need to do. Don’t forget that you need to heal too and that your own self care is of upmost importance. And of course, we are all here for you 

FB x

[JeanGenie]

Thank you Fb, you are so kind  , thank you so much for all your wonderful support.

 I am so sorry that you also felt your confidence shattered. I think I deal a bit better when my daughter is really shouting and angry, as I suppose I think she just says things in anger then. However, when she is calm, cold and seemingly calculated in what she says, I find it much more confusing.

After a very low number of days last week, I am now trying to pull it together a bit more. I have always had to have a 'hook' to hold onto so I can pull myself out of a low state. It is just a case of finding it (sometimes that's easier said than done!). I look at other people who are a lot worse off than me and think to myself 'come on', focus on the positive things in your life.

So, alongside Enabler's advice (thank you again, E!) about taking the grieving process seriously, (I am trying to make time for myself to do that), I also have a deep feeling that I owe it to myself to carve out a life. I don't feel like I have made much of my life my own. Perhaps I need to do more of that. I will always love my daughter and with every breath I take I wish I could make her happy. But I am starting to realise, that I can't do that, no matter how much I want to.

A big fear is that once she has gone this time, I will not even know anyone who is in contact with her. I won't hear 'through the grapevine' how she is doing. I will have to cope with that somehow. If I heard that she was happy, that would be a huge relief, but I will always worry about her - not knowing if she is ok or not. Not even knowing if she is still alive.

When your son was communicating all those confusing things about you FB, how did you manage to regain your confidence? Or do you think just by educating ourselves more about these disorders it becomes easier to understand? I do think my daughter projects things. And I think you are right about her comment about 'emotional distance'. She must have so much going on in her head and is perhaps not processing fully her own feelings. She can be very convincing with what she says though, and sometimes I am a bear of very little brain!

Nice day off tomorrow, lie-in (dog-alarm permitting!) long dog walk and a potter in the garden. Small, but pleasures in my life I am grateful for. Thanks again FB, I hope you managed to have a nice time with the rest of your family X

[Feeling Better]

I think I deal a bit better when my daughter is really shouting and angry, as I suppose I think she just says things in anger then. However, when she is calm, cold and seemingly calculated in what she says, I find it much more confusing.

It is so much harder to deal with criticisms when they are said in a cold and calculated way, it makes them seem more real and true, whereas when said in anger and emotions are high, although upsetting, we can deal with them better, knowing/hoping that they are not meant and are just things said in the heat of the moment.
 You know that you are not that person your daughter says you are, you just have to keep believing it. I hope you don’t think that I’m trivialising it, as I know how hard it is to gain self belief, it’s something that many of us here, including me, have to work really hard on.

I look at other people who are a lot worse off than me and think to myself 'come on', focus on the positive things in your life.

I do this too, it helps unless I’m on a real ‘downer’, stops me from feeling sorry for myself so that I can try and get on with my life.

I also have a deep feeling that I owe it to myself to carve out a life.

JG, you most certainly do owe it to yourself to carve out a life, and more than that, it is your right to live the best life that you can. You are not solely responsible for your daughter’s happiness, you can do or say things which you hope will make your daughter happy, but in the end, it is her choice whether they do or not. I believe that only she has the capacity to make herself feel happy, likewise the same goes for you. I believe that happiness is a state of mind.

A big fear is that once she has gone this time, I will not even know anyone who is in contact with her. I won't hear 'through the grapevine' how she is doing. I will have to cope with that somehow. If I heard that she was happy, that would be a huge relief, but I will always worry about her - not knowing if she is ok or not. Not even knowing if she is still alive.

This was also my biggest fear, that my son would just “disappear” off the face of the earth, so to speak, and it is so hard to deal with. My way of coping is to believe that he is happy, that he is living the life that he has chosen, I couldn’t bear to believe otherwise, it would prevent me from getting on with my own life.

When your son was communicating all those confusing things about you FB, how did you manage to regain your confidence? Or do you think just by educating ourselves more about these disorders it becomes easier to understand?

I didn’t regain my confidence until after my son had left and gone NC with me. I was at my lowest point when I found this site. It is through the support and understanding of others who knew exactly how I was feeling and what I was going through that I learned to value myself as a person and to slowly gain confidence. By posting and participating here has helped me more than I can say. I was so nervous writing my first post and terrified of joining in other threads. I also did twelve weeks counselling right at the beginning of the year, it helped me so much. I realised what a people pleaser I was, always putting others before myself, considering their feelings over mine. I was also a fixer and I also used to blame myself for other people’s behaviour. Thankfully that is all behind me now.

JG, I had a lovely time with the rest of my family, thank you 
It wasn’t always that way, there was someone missing who I desperately wanted to be there.

You will get through this, you are already doing amazingly well, you have the right approach, now keep believing in yourself 

FB x

[Music Ace]

JeanGenie - I'm a rookie as a 'supporter' here as I'm still learning to deal with things (a better place than the coping I was doing 2 weeks ago - I flip between the two depending on my daughter's (28 undiagnosed) interactions).

I'm wordy, so I'm going to try to be succinct (good luck to ME and all the readers ) ... .  (I reread – I wasn’t succinct – tee hee hee)

When questioning your own worth and self-confidence, be sure to base it not JUST on your daughter.  See yourself through the proper eyes.  REFLECT, listen to what people say, but … be honest with yourself too.  Take the time to find ways to believe in you … even very small steps (like in the garden with your dog! .  Dogs know stuff … they really do!  TRUST THEM

That was the summary for those not interested in reading the entire lead up to my epiphany.  Here’s the background if interested so that people may be more tempted to understand what lead to it.

I was beaten down, I went to therapy for me.  My beautiful, brilliant, eloquent child (with social gaps that we were well aware of), was a widow at 27 (suspected fentanyl) and unrecognizable.  She was suicidal prior to his death (they were separated but he saved her life), I could no longer have conversations without her flying into rage or plummeting into cyclical obsessive 'depression'.  I went to therapy to learn how to communicate better with her ... .and to be totally honest, to have hopefully less guilt if one of her suicide attempts were successful.  I 'graduated' in early September and my therapist suggested that with Naranon (she publicly, although blackmailed to do so, admitted addiction) and my new-found tools (basic DBT, improved communication style, mindfulness which I still struggle with), she was proud of how I was able to handle things and we both felt I was ready to give it a go on my own.  Although the anger and negativity continued, I managed it ... .but then I didn't.  My new reactions/responses were NOT what she was used to or expecting perhaps?  So, she ramped up the attacks and techniques.  Continuing to be eloquent and well-thought through and detailed ... .they were direct hits, seemingly aimed to do the most damage.  She was successful and I began, once again, not only to question my own contribution to her challenges, but also began to question my usefulness in general, my existence/self-worth, and my own sanity. I was prepared to leave my job and walk away from anything I contributed to - how can I offer support/advice/teach/care, etc ... .if I can't even look after my own child - what worth am I to ANYONE if I can't care for and/or help her; if I have destroyed her, I HAVE NO RIGHT.  I knew I was not in a healthy place (I was not suicidal, I was definitely wallowing in some serious self-pity).  I had absolutely NO self-esteem left and no confidence - NONE.  I contacted my union bosses, I went to my doctor AND I took my therapist up on the offer to come back anytime

OK - I promise I'm getting to my point - I felt the need to give the preamble.     So with the support of my union and my doctor, all I had to do was give the word, and I was off for as much time as I needed.

It was that trip to the therapist that was a pivotal experience.  Here I am in her office, feeling ‘better’ because some time had passed and the threatened no contact had occurred and I had leave available if needed.  I was back in ‘control’.  BUT, with such low confidence (I’ve always lacked it, but I don’t present that way apparently LOL), I sat with her and was truly questioning how accurate DD's version of things were and if she was right, even remotely, I was not only a bad person, but should not be continuing doing my job because being in a position of authority and allowing or enabling all these horrible things to have occurred.  My therapist slays me (she’s diagnosed ADHD … and we’re working on getting a possible diagnosis for me) … she totally stepped out of ‘therapist’ mode, where I would have expected her to lead me to find my own answers with her guidance.  SO I’m sitting there and I’m dwelling on this never ending cycle of what a bad person I am in my daughter’s eyes and if even a smidgen of that is true, I have no right to be a teacher … and I was questioning my calling seriously … yes my daughter had that much power.

So my wonderful therapist said … How about you ask your other daughter about your impact? How about you ask your 1000s of band students over the last 13 years of your significance?  How about you ask your neighbour, you know, the one that you’ve listened quietly to as she told you about her husband’s death and how much she misses him?  How about you listen to your husband when he says he loves you and how wonderful you were with your children?  Does your cat jump in your lap and cuddle you?  Find the common thread, figure out the anomaly. IT’S NOT YOU.

It was probably not particularly professional taking that approach, but it was exactly what I needed. 

JG - Do you have other people/things where you are worthy and significant?  Are your gardens beautiful calm places and do people stop to take them in?  At Church, do you make sure new people and visitors know how to follow the order of service?  Have you ever picked up a dropped shoe or mitten (I’m from Canada eh!) and handed it back to an appreciative Mom? See yourself through their eyes. 

I’m a fixer, a martyr.  My self-worth is sadly based on my importance or value in others’ lives/the world … but here’s the kicker, if I allow my worth to be based on the lowest, nastiest valuation, then I continue to cycle down.  I can’t fix everything at once.  I still most definitely have to work on believing in myself for MYSELF …. But in the meantime, I can perhaps allow myself to be judged by the proper people.  If my friends, most of my family, my cat, my coworkers, my students … all come to me for guidance and support, they enjoy my sense of humour and my compassion, they trust me to be honest and kind … WHY OH WHY is the rant of one mentally unstable, drug addicted, angry individual so powerful to take away the positive from all those other people. WHY is that one person’s opinion valued so much greater than ALL the other people in my life?  Yup, it’s my child … but she’s still ONLY one person.  And she is struggling right now.

I also have found a pattern. 48 hours from last contact, no matter the contact, and I can breathe on my own again.   I can think positively and regain my belief that I am a good person.  My confidence is still sketchy … but there are more people in this world that like me.  AND, I get to start liking me again!  But I often need a full 48 hours if the comments have been especially nasty/evil/hurtful.

[JeanGenie]

Thanks FB and thank you too Music Ace for your post.  You've had so much to deal with, but it is really nice to hear your story and I take a lot of strength from your wise words.

I've just had another email from her. (So much for not reading them till I was better prepared). I feel pretty sick and very shaky right now.

She is in effect giving me an altimatum. She says that she has massive trauma from her childhood, that I treated her terribly and that I still do it (? I don't know what she is talking about?).  She says i use denial and arrogance to make myself feel better  and that I should 'drop the act'. She says she feels s*** around me, that if I wanted to have anything to do with her then I should bring something nice to her life. She then says that I don't bring anything nice or good into her life, and that I don't even try. She says she never had a mother or a dad (the latter is true). That it was because I never made her feel loved or nice or cared for. She says that I should face up to 'what I have done' and that she will not accept any amount of denial, then before she changes her email address - which she says will be soon (the last point of contact after she gets all her things), I will have to get real or stay out for ever. I haven't got long to change how I react or go about this. She then says that she will come tomorrow to get more of her stuff (that's not good as I have a friend coming that I haven't seen for ages), and if I still feel 'the same' then we shall both stay silent and her email will be changed before long, and my not admitting all these things or making the change in myself, then this will prove to her that I am the person she 'knows' I am.

I am totally flummoxed. This person she is describing (that she really believes is true) as her mother is not me, she has it in her head that I was nothing but bad to her. i feel I have so many things to justify.

So basically, she is now saying that if I do not change (seems that she is giving me a 'chance' to keep her in my life now?), that this will be my choice for her to cut off? I don't know how I can change when I don't even know what I'm doing wrong. If all this time what she believes is true, then I am very much in denial, and she is definitely better off without me. I don't know what to do. 

I don't understand, how someone can dish out so much stuff to make someone else feel bad - whilst saying that their 'target' is the one being horrible?

Anyone have any ideas on how I can best respond to her? I started an email, but not sent one - I've come here first. My first reaction whilst feeling stick, was to just say 'I'm sorry you are feeling the way you do... .' But what then? I have tried to do that, but this is what she calls me being in denial. Because I am not admitting to her that she is right. In the past I have said sorry for all sorts of things, even stuff that I am not sure I should have had to apologise for. She must want me to do that again? I feel I don't have much left of myself when she says all those things.

Music Ace, you asked if I have many other people around me that I can use to verify myself. I know people would say I'm not like she says I am. They will say that I was a good mum, that I went above and beyond trying to do my best for her. That I always, always out her first.  But I suppose as her mum, (and I have no other children), the only opinion that matters about what kind of mum I was/am, is hers. I know I am a good, kind person. I will put others needs before my own. It makes me happy to make someone's day, even if it is just to offer a smile. I always think that someone else could be having a bad day, and if you just give them a smile, then you may have made them feel a bit better. This is what I am like. I am a nice person.  But she thinks I am a monster, and it is very hard not to be completely clouded by her view of me.

I have felt better earlier today. More positive in my outlook, thanks to the advice and support I have found here (and also a big effort in searching for my 'hook'), and my drive to start looking after myself. But she just shatters all that. Where is my lovely girl? I'm so distraught again now.

Sorry, am rambling again, I'm not good, and probably not making much sense. I feel I have just offloaded, and it is not something I am used to doing, so feel guilty that I'm dumping my rubbish on someone else. I want to thank you for reading and putting up with my stuff. I do hope that I can learn enough to get through this so that I can in turn offer the same support sometime for others.

[Only Human]

Hi JeanGenie,

I'm so sorry your daughter has put you in this impossible position.

I'm out and about so I'm here intermittently today.  I see you are online and wanted to reach out and let you know I read your post. My heart goes out to you. I wish I had some valuable input I do have this internet hug for you because I think you might need it

Has she come yet today?

I hope you are/were able to enjoy your visit with your friend.

~ OH

[JeanGenie]

Thank you so much OH, sending you a big hug back   It's just turned midnight here in UK, and I'm trying to stop the dog from having a heart attack from the fireworks

[JeanGenie]

Sorry OH, it only seemed to send half my message.

I just said that she didn't come today. I didn't respond to her at all, am still trying to think how  best to.

It was lovely seeing my old friend. He was about all the time I was bringing my daughter up. It was nice to hear him give reassurance to me that I was not like she is saying I was. We no longer live geographically close to each other which is such a shame.

I wish everyone peace and a better year ahead, thanks again OH x

[Feeling Better]

Hi JG

I'm so glad to hear that you had a lovely time with your friend. A bit of respite huh?

I'm sorry to hear that your daughter has sent you such awful emails. I don't know whether this will help or not, but when my son was sending me these kind of emails, I responded by saying that I preferred to discuss things face to face rather than through emails. I added that it was important to me to have a relationship with him and that if we couldn't work something out together, then maybe seek help together through counselling. He responded saying that he thought counselling was a good idea and a positive step towards a better relationship. I can't say whether that is the right thing for you to do, only you can decide, but I just thought I would share it with you 

FB x

[JeanGenie]

Thanks again for your input FB,

I have asked my daughter so many times over the years if we could go to counselling together, and she has never agreed. I've asked her also if we can talk, but she tells me to leave her alone and then starts getting agitated and shouty if I try and push her. She'll say that I am trying to make her more ill (this she will relate to her eating disorder or self harming, she does not acknowledge any BPd traits).   I don't want to cause her any more stress, so tend to leave it. I do think though that I will try again with the suggestion of joint counselling - and I will certainly put it in writing in an email before she collects the rest of her stuff, so that she can always have the opportunity to read it back to herself if she wants to save it.

I find it interesting that she has purposely left all the handmade cards, and presents that i have made her over the years to point out to me that she doesn't want them any more, but seems to be really dragging out the collection of her stuff. She has even been here with a trailer and has only taken one thing. Maybe deep down, she is holding off of the complete 'cut off', and is probably waiting for me to give her the usual way out.

I don't think she has ever agreed to joint counselling maybe because she doesn't want someone else to hear my side of things, and it would mean that she would be challenged. I do hope that one day she may come round to it?

Did the joint counselling make a difference to you and your son's relationship at the time FB? Was it a counsellor that you or he was already involved with or someone completely new?

Many thanks again for your suggestions and input FB 

Our objective is to better understand the struggles our child faces and to learn the skills to improve our relationship and provide a supportive environment and also improve on our own emotional responses, attitudes and effectiveness as a family leaders

[Feeling Better]

Did the joint counselling make a difference to you and your son's relationship at the time FB? Was it a counsellor that you or he was already involved with or someone new?

To be honest JG I was in two minds whether to post about that or not. Counselling didn't work out for us and it was when my son ended the counselling that she told me that she suspected he had BPD. That was me and my son it may not be you and your daughter. You already have an advantage of suspecting BPD at the outset if your daughter agrees. Choose your counsellor wisely, preferably one who has dealt with BPD before. I wish I'd had more knowledge about BPD then  but I hadn't, I thought my son was suffering from PTSD. He most likely suffers from both. I wish you luck JG 

FB x

[JeanGenie]

Thanks FB. Sorry that it didn't work out for you and your son with the counselling. Thank you for posting your info anyway.

My daughter is currently not interested in attending any joint counselling anyway.  I've had a few more emails from her along the same lines, and she is still adamant that it is me that has all the issues. I will, however keep on suggesting it, and also I keep trying the broken record responses (sorry you feel like this, but I'm always here and always love you etc). I don't think she likes it much when she doesn't get a response to her vitriol, but I am hoping that she will realise she is not getting anywhere with it.

At present she is still intending on cutting off after collection of her stuff. But I think she is dragging the process out, waiting for me I think to do something that she agrees with.


Thank you again FB, hope you are ok 

[Feeling Better]

Hi JG

I’m sorry to hear that your daughter is still not interested in joint counselling. I got the feeling sometimes with my son that maybe he only agreed so that he could show the counsellor that it was me with the problem.

At present she is still intending on cutting off after collection of her stuff. But I think she is dragging the process out, waiting for me I think to do something that she agrees with.

So sorry that she still intends cutting you off once she’s collected all her stuff, she does seem to be dragging it out though. Do you think that she may feel she’s backed herself into a corner and have no choice but to see it through?

Sending you hugs 

FB x

[Freda]

Hi JG

I’ve just joined the site and all you say about the behaviours are so similar to my experience with my 31 year old daughter - though she has addiction issues too. It’s very hard being criticised all the time - but i’m getting better at not believing it although the grieving is now uppermost. I suspect like others that your daughter is prolonging matters - my daughter tells me not to contact her and then calls to complain I haven’t done so.
I am certain you have done nothing wrong - listen to those around you please and don’t blame yourself. I’m only just getting to that stage and I have to say this site has helped
already though i’ve Only been a member an hour!
I’m beginning to understand that we as parents can’t do much unless the person wants to change. Mine doesn’t do I must!
Stay strong - and my thoughts are with you. Freda

[JeanGenie]

Thank you again FB, and to you too Freda for your replies. I'm sorry that you too Freda have had similar issues, and thank you for your insight. I hope you continue to find comfort and help on this site, people here have really been so helpful and informative for me.

Things have gone pretty quiet after the last lot of rubbish emails. My daughter has been to collect more stuff, but when I was out, so I didn't see her. She is making sure she still leaves anything that I have bought her in the past - including plants, pots and storage boxes! It's the photos and stuff I have made her that she has left that hurts the most.

I do think you are both right in that she does seem to be really dragging her heels finishing the clear-out. She has always been very strong willed, proud and stubborn - and I do think she finds it very hard to back down. I usually do give her a way out, I have always made sure that I give her someway back without her having to lose face. I usually make sure the door is very firmly shoved open for her to get through. But unfortunately this has usually been in the shape of me apologising for something - or me taking responsibility (even though she will say I am and have been the most irresponsible rubbish mother ever etc etc), for something so that she has a reason to retract her threats.

I have decided though not to do that this time. This may be a big mistake, but I feel that she needs to work this one out for herself. I also think that as you have said in the past FB, that each time I do that, she loses even more respect for me, and if I'm honest it doesn't last long anyway till she is pushing things again.

We shall see. I am under no illusions though that she won't do as she says. I feel so tired at the moment though. I don't feel like I have much energy left to do battle.  She will do what she wants to do. I think I am beginning to see that you are right too Freda, that although I can educate myself with the help of people here, my daughter has to be the one to realise that she needs help, and perhaps it isn't everyone else who has the problem.

I have decided to do something a bit radical which I am hoping may help with this feeling of grief that I have all the time. I am going to decorate the outside of a big box with copies of all her happy baby photos, and photos of her growing up and of us together in the past having fun and being happy. I'm going to then wrap up all those cards, and items that I have made her (that she's discarded - or returned), put all her old school reports and other photos and things she has made me inside the box. I think it will be hard, but I want to make it really special, and remind myself of the happy little girl she was, and the happy times we did have together. I'm then going to put it in the attic when I'm ready. I'm hoping to be able to reflect on the fact that that was then, and this is now, and things are now different to how I thought they'd be. I don't know if it will help with the process, but at least if anything ever happens to me she will know I kept everything, and things are still here if she ever wanted them.

Please, if anyone has any input or thoughts about my decision to hold fast and not do my usual 'give her a way out' - or thinks this is a very bad idea to do with a pwBPD, I would be very grateful for any advice! I don't really know what I'm doing.

Many thanks

JG x

[Only Human]

Hi JG,

I love your idea of a memory box to keep for yourself, it seems a healthy way to deal with your grief.

I wonder, have you seen this workshop?

Grieving Mental Illness in a Loved One

As for holding fast, not giving your DD a "way out" of her decision, I think your reasons for this are very sound. I also know it can be very scary to think this will be forever.

LoveOnTheRocks replied to one of my posts early on with these words and I want to share them with you now,

"There are many days between now and forever."

Sending you love,

~ OH

[Music Ace]

JG - only a brief moment to post.

My observation- she may be 'leaving' or 'returning' those things  ... .  but , she is NOT destroying them or throwing them out where you can't retrieve them! 

Take comfort in that!

And make that memory box. I have those things tucked away. Things that are here, if my udD28 is interested, when she is stable. But she has such awful memories of her childhood,  they are only for me right mow and maybe only for me ever. But they are good memories for me!

AND, - this is key -

There will ALWAYS be room in that box for new memories, ALWAYS.

Sending hugs

Ace

[Only Human]

Thinking of you, Jean Genie - how are you doing?

~ OH

[Feeling Better]

She is making sure she still leaves anything that I have bought her in the past - including plants, pots and storage boxes! It's the photos and stuff I have made her that she has left that hurts the most.

Yes JG, these actions do hurt us the most, we have put a part of ourselves into it when we make something for our pwBPD, and to have that rejected is incredibly painful. My son at one time rejected a gift I’d made for him in the hope that him having it would remind him of me and how much I loved him. He handed it back, saying that to see it would remind him what a horrible person I was.

I have decided though not to do that this time. This may be a big mistake, but I feel that she needs to work this one out for herself. I also think that as you have said in the past FB, that each time I do that, she loses even more respect for me, and if I'm honest it doesn't last long anyway till she is pushing things again.

A brave decision JG. I don’t think that there is a right or wrong way here, however you do know that what you have tried before hasn’t worked. I’m not sure whether you have seen this article but just in case you haven’t here is the link:

If your current approach is not working, change it!

I have decided to do something a bit radical which I am hoping may help with this feeling of grief that I have all the time. I am going to decorate the outside of a big box with copies of all her happy baby photos, and photos of her growing up and of us together in the past having fun and being happy. I'm going to then wrap up all those cards, and items that I have made her (that she's discarded - or returned), put all her old school reports and other photos and things she has made me inside the box. I think it will be hard, but I want to make it really special, and remind myself of the happy little girl she was, and the happy times we did have together. I'm then going to put it in the attic when I'm ready. I'm hoping to be able to reflect on the fact that that was then, and this is now, and things are now different to how I thought they'd be. I don't know if it will help with the process, but at least if anything ever happens to me she will know I kept everything, and things are still here if she ever wanted them.

JG, this is amazing! I’ve read that doing things like this can be very healing especially when trying to overcome grief. I did similar, I made a montage of photos one time when I was struggling with grief and it did help. Take it slow, it can be painful, but I do believe it helps 

FB x

[smallbluething]

Just a quick post to say I read your post about the memory box and that seems like a great idea.

The dragging out of her moving stuff seems like hard work and must be a bit of a torment. Letting her get on with it and not being tempted to take responsibility for her issues sounds like a sensible move though, since it hasn't worked in the past. Perhaps you'll be able to focus on looking after yourself and finding space for yourself for a bit - it might do you the world of good.

Our objective is to better understand the struggles our child faces and to learn the skills to improve our relationship and provide a supportive environment and also improve on our own emotional responses, attitudes and effectiveness as a family leaders

[DharmaGate]

JG, stopping by to say hi too    your other thread was the first one i read that helped me know i was in the right place to get help, thank you!  i see where you wrote about daughter and leaving stuff you made her, my daughter gave away two beloved stuffed animals i gave her at the height of her being mad at me, it hurt!  anyway i just did what i believe you are doing and continued to care for myself, heal, learn, make good friends with myself so when she returned i would have some reserves.  this turned out to be a good plan, i need all the reserves i can get now.  anyway mostly saying hi!