Who are we as Non’s to “diagnose” - Part 3

[VIDEO: "What is parental alienation?"]

Meandthee29 wrote... .There were family secrets in the immediate family that came out as our relationship broke apart (ironically more than my family).

One thing I’ve learnt, dysfunctional foo’s will circle their wagons and engage in whole rewrites of the near and distant past in order to protect those foo secrets... .in my first marrrage, for instance... .when it was clear to my MIL at that time that I “knew”, it was resultant in wholesale character assasination towards me... .holy smokes !

In my current marriage (now separated) foo has gone to great links to rearrange the facts of what happened... .even before the breakup, when I began to ask “questions”, the other foo sisters became very agitated towards me, as if they were now angry at me for wanting to know more about the family dynamics... .history... .guess I got too close, and asked a few too many questions.

The middle sisters husband however has a big mouth, and he told me a whole lot more than I wanted to know one night when we were fishing ... .just a few weeks before mine and my wife’s incident resulting in our split.

Yes... .the family secrets are well guarded.

Red5

[Red5]

Meandthee29 wrote... .There were family secrets in the immediate family that came out as our relationship broke apart (ironically more than my family).

One thing I’ve learnt, dysfunctional foo’s will circle their wagons and engage in whole rewrites of the near and distant past in order to protect those foo secrets... .in my first marrrage, for instance... .when it was clear to my MIL at that time that I “knew”, it was resultant in wholesale character assasination towards me... .holy smokes !

In my current marriage (now separated) foo has gone to great links to rearrange the facts of what happened... .even before the breakup, when I began to ask “questions”, the other foo sisters became very agitated towards me, as if they were now angry at me for wanting to know more about the family dynamics... .history... .guess I got too close, and asked a few too many questions.

The middle sisters husband however has a big mouth, and he told me a whole lot more than I wanted to know one night when we were fishing ... .just a few weeks before mine and my wife’s incident resulting in our split.

Yes... .the family secrets are well guarded.

Red5

[once removed]

There’s also a lot of overlap with anxiety disorders.

anxiety disorders as well as depressive/mood disorders, and impulse disorders. my best/closest gal friend struggles a lot with impulsivity in romantic relationships. not in the more extreme way the DSM describes, with binge eating, unsafe driving, promiscuity, that sort of thing where impulsivity is a way and danger of life, but for example, when shes flooded with abandonment anxiety, she will flip out, send her partner a cascade of texts, do self/relationship sabotaging things. shes a very jealous partner, snoops. she regrets it all later, but doesnt have the tools to stop herself and regulate. it looks a lot like what i experienced with my ex.

an insecure attachment style can look a lot like (and is often synonymous with) BPD traits as well.

However, when you compare normal relationship conflict versus BPD conflict, you have to draw the line.

i think it depends though, on where we draw it. a lot of the conflict here is common, if dysfunctional, every day stuff like:

-fighting over money
-fighting over the kids/parenting
-fighting about other family members
-fighting about friends
-fighting about/during holidays
-fighting about what to do/where to go
-fighting about time together/time apart
-not being on the same page about the future/timeline/commitment
-fighting over "vices"
-fighting about the sex
-fighting about division of chores/labor
-fighting about who is "giving more" in the relationship
-fighting about how each handles conflict
-significant differences in values (broad)
-boredom or stress

a key difference to me regarding BPD traits is that most relationships dont involve, say, threats of suicide, or the frequency/extremes of emotional dysregulation and high sensitivity. mental illness (severe or mild) by and large speaks to/effects how one copes with conflict, and/or life in general. most relationship conflict itself, is nearly universal.

[MeandThee29]

One thing I’ve learnt, dysfunctional foo’s will circle their wagons and engage in whole rewrites of the near and distant past in order to protect those foo secrets ... .in my first marrrage, for instance ... .when it was clear to my MIL at that time that I “knew”, it was resultant in wholesale character assasination towards me... .holy smokes !

I hear you. Along with my pwBPD, they have rewritten the history of our relationship. They have picked it apart and found where we "went wrong" and dug into my character over issues that aren't theirs to dig into. They know things about our relationship they shouldn't.They complain that I've gone to various counsellors to work through it versus keeping it all within the family. They say that family makes the best counsellors. In many ways, they've driven more of a wedge with their blame shifting and standing with my husband. And I know that he gives them partial information at times and takes cues from them.

I know, lots of red flags. When relating a blow-up to a close friend who happens to be a therapist (I'm not a client), the first thing she asked was how deeply his family is involved. Ironically, my family (the narcissist is dead BTW) is just supporting me, period. They aren't digging in at all. Interesting.

[MeandThee29]

a key difference to me regarding BPD traits is that most relationships dont involve, say, threats of suicide, or the frequency/extremes of emotional dysregulation and high sensitivity. mental illness (severe or mild) by and large speaks to/effects how one copes with conflict, and/or life in general. most relationship conflict itself, is nearly universal.

Exactly. I have conflicts with my young adults, conflicts with my friends, and conflicts at work. They tend to be isolated and don't involve personal attacks and character assassination. There's no stonewalling. The next day, we remember the conflict and go on.

Mine would have these blow-ups where it would go on and on for hours, hitting every area of our relationship. His insults were ugly and hit me to the core emotionally. He talked about divorce and getting a "better" woman for over a decade. At time he would barely interact with me for extended periods when he was mad. Twice it was a month, and a week was not uncommon. Then a big blow-up. And then he would say he didn't remember it some time later. I never knew what to do with that. He would say I was making it up.

I have friends that I'm close enough to that I know how they fight with their husbands. And it's never like that.

[JNChell]

During the last, somewhat serious, conversation that I had with S4’s mom, I asked her what she was diagnosed with. She told me anxiety and depression, so far.
 Throughout our conversation she also said that she can’t be alone. She cuts and has a poor sense of who she is. She could be DID. She may not be any of those things. I believe that she is, but I’m not qualified to make that assessment. I’m responsible for myself. I see a lot of BPD in myself. I’m clinically dx’d with C-PTSD. An anxiety disorder that has A LOT of overlap with BPD. As far as I know, there are arguments amongst the medical society on whether or not BPD and C-PTSD should be merged into the same dx. I don’t care which way it goes. I know my shortcomings and my path. I know what caused my reactivity. I know how my reactions have been a roadblock.
Another thing about BPD is that it’s on a spectrum.

The testimonials vary here. They have to do with both involved at the end of the day. Our exes are probably trying to diagnose us as well. Maybe a long hard look in the mirror is all we need.

[Cromwell]

They have to do with both involved at the end of the day. Our exes are probably trying to diagnose us as well. Maybe a long hard look in the mirror is all we need.

It was an important aspect of the r/s that I didnt enjoy at all - I felt studied like she was doing a phd. It was unnerving and as time unfolded I learned part of the motive why - know as much as possible to know what emotional weaknesses to best try and exploit.

When I started dating again, it was strange after chalking up experience in this BPD relationship I left - some girls were fine, others triggered. The triggers brought with them anxiety and a bit of ptsd into the mix. I was diagnosing "oh no, another one of them"

Moving on from that, I view these triggers in a different light, it is just observation of patterned behaviour being recalled - but it doesnt trigger the anxiety to try and amateur 'diagnose'. The extent that I go to is

"bad vibes" might get to know better but be cautious. Then after awhile, the extent of diagnosis is "not sure if a PD but enough to say "just a b!tch for sure" - lets now slowly back away.

a good rule of thumb I have developed when applying to likely problems - you hear a ton of observations which are backed up by compliments, it detracts from the converse of what is going on, you dont get to hear nearly as much being divulged about them.

to try and identify narcissistic traits, id expect to be looking for "its all about me talk and self aggrandiasement" - yet in practice I notice that the actual behaviour (in the hook stage) is that this is submerged, it appears/is "all about you" but only because it is trying to get you to open up and part of - feeling - infactualised.

so to answer the original question - I dont think I can help but 'diagnose' (prefer the word - observe) and be triggered by noticing patterns of traits emerging from people.

it didnt really matter that my ex was diagnosed with BPD - in any event i didnt learn for a substantial time into the r/s. Either way, when I started to get the bad vibes that somethings not right, rather than giving benefit of the doubt or shrugging it away as unexplainable - it really should intead have been sayonara time.

i have no doubt that even psychiatrists who diagnose will do so more than just a dusty textbook and a grid structure tick box exercise. intuition from experience will play a part in the process and this is some common ground to follow along to when it comes to our own attempts to 'diagnose'. I see very little reason why not and a lot to be gained for attempting to - preferable from living in an otherwise oblivious state simply because "little old meism" - dont have a psychology degree so not qualified to judge.

have confidence in our inbuilt intuition and feel free to judge. this is a relationship, it is important not to get wrong. As proven by the consequences of when it did go [very] wrong.

[empath]

I know enough about my h's foo and the history - especially his dad's side of the family - to know that there's some serious dysfunction there.

My h says that he has only been diagnosed with depression but that he also has anxiety (and maybe an attachment disorder). When he moved out, he was having thoughts of hurting himself and us... .  but he wasn't telling his foo or his friend about those... .  They were going to help him get a divorce... .  because I wasn't talking to him... .  and I wasn't working... .  and I have a master's degree... . 

The rewriting history and current facts has been a problem for my relationships with certain people and groups ... . 

Insecure attachment -- with a disorganized style (clingy and withdrawing) seems to fit best with BPD