Taking advice and posting between crisis, substance use, drama triangle

[Parents! Get help here!]

Hello all,

Will make a post later about how using the drama triangle totally changed the course our family was on.

Things have leveled out for a couple of weeks now, with my undiagnosed 35 year old daughter and i's interaction.  Many factors  involved but using validation and being very conscious of the drama triangle roles of rescuer, persecutor and victim played a huge part, as did confronting our extended family dysfunction. 

I made a commitment to myself that I was not going to interact with my dad, brother or sister, unless I was relatively sure I could stay in the "winner triangle of assertive, caring and vulnerable" ( from article of karpman drama traningle on site) for my daughter and I we are very much acting out intergenerational dysfunction.   

I believe my daughter feels my steadiness and is being more honest.  By me being more steady, non reactive, other people in the family extreme positions have been exposed (as article points out) been so hard to keep doing what is non reactive, stay the course but it is paying off.

My question now is how to skillfully address my wanting to avoid my daughter at times because of substance abuse, I hear slurry words on phone and I gotta go! I saw the comment that personality disordered people may not respond to tough love approach, as they do not have the skills to work with this.  This intuitively feels right.  Told my daughter about this and Marsha linehans idea of harm reduction, taking a using vacation, like once a week or so, my daughter was intrigued and wanted to hear more as I find out.

My daughter starts a new job tomorrow and has been melting down, says she will take any help she can get.  I am starting the online dbt in couple weeks told her I would tell her how it is. Not sure if I should say nothing about counseling she has brought up in past or not. (She had a Dwi, five years ago and said maybe she could go back to that agency and counselor as she liked them, major miracle there)

So I have been resting, trying to get a healing routine for myself, eat healthy, ect, create balance.  Been reading the site, but it takes effort to type and post, as you all know!

Thank you all for your bravery and honesty being here, it all helps

[DharmaGate]

Hello all,

Will make a post later about how using the drama triangle totally changed the course our family was on.

Things have leveled out for a couple of weeks now, with my undiagnosed 35 year old daughter and i's interaction.  Many factors  involved but using validation and being very conscious of the drama triangle roles of rescuer, persecutor and victim played a huge part, as did confronting our extended family dysfunction. 

I made a commitment to myself that I was not going to interact with my dad, brother or sister, unless I was relatively sure I could stay in the "winner triangle of assertive, caring and vulnerable" ( from article of karpman drama traningle on site) for my daughter and I we are very much acting out intergenerational dysfunction.   

I believe my daughter feels my steadiness and is being more honest.  By me being more steady, non reactive, other people in the family extreme positions have been exposed (as article points out) been so hard to keep doing what is non reactive, stay the course but it is paying off.

My question now is how to skillfully address my wanting to avoid my daughter at times because of substance abuse, I hear slurry words on phone and I gotta go! I saw the comment that personality disordered people may not respond to tough love approach, as they do not have the skills to work with this.  This intuitively feels right.  Told my daughter about this and Marsha linehans idea of harm reduction, taking a using vacation, like once a week or so, my daughter was intrigued and wanted to hear more as I find out.

My daughter starts a new job tomorrow and has been melting down, says she will take any help she can get.  I am starting the online dbt in couple weeks told her I would tell her how it is. Not sure if I should say nothing about counseling she has brought up in past or not. (She had a Dwi, five years ago and said maybe she could go back to that agency and counselor as she liked them, major miracle there)

So I have been resting, trying to get a healing routine for myself, eat healthy, ect, create balance.  Been reading the site, but it takes effort to type and post, as you all know!

Thank you all for your bravery and honesty being here, it all helps

Our objective is to better understand the struggles our child faces and to learn the skills to improve our relationship and provide a supportive environment and also improve on our own emotional responses, attitudes and effectiveness as a family leaders

[Only Human]

Hi DharmaGate,

The title of your post caught my eye and I've read it a couple of times and am here to celebrate with you - you're doing the hard work and you're seeing results!  

I'm limited on time until after GS4 is in bed but wanted to drop this link while I'm here to a great workshop on the Karpman Drama triangle, have you seen it?

2.01 Karpman Drama Triangle

Stay the course indeed,DharmaGate Bravo to you,  

~ OH

[DharmaGate]

Oh will go check that workshop out thank you! I have been following your thread with conversations, such great modeling of how we. Learn to interact differently bless you!

[wendydarling]

Hi DharmaGate

My question now is how to skillfully address my wanting to avoid my daughter at times because of substance abuse, I hear slurry words on phone and I gotta go! I saw the comment that personality disordered people may not respond to tough love approach, as they do not have the skills to work with this.  This intuitively feels right.  Told my daughter about this and Marsha linehans idea of harm reduction, taking a using vacation, like once a week or so, my daughter was intrigued and wanted to hear more as I find out.

Following your story DG! Um, your DD wants to hear more from you as you find out, share with her. How do you feel about that?

WDx

[Harri]

Hi DharmaG and thanks for the update.  It sounds like things are going pretty well for you right now.   

The drama triangle is helpful isn't it?  I had a hard time with and it did not help me much at first but over time, it has made more and more sense. 

My question now is how to skillfully address my wanting to avoid my daughter at times because of substance abuse, I hear slurry words on phone and I gotta go!

I think it is a natural reaction to feel anxiety and want to get off the phone when this happens.  I can't imagine there is much point to the conversation anyway.   How do you currently handle these calls?  How does she respond? 

[DharmaGate]

Hi Harri, she will talk on phone for hours and she knows I don’t like to talk on the phone much but I make an exception because I like to talk to her  so some of the time she seems to begin to drink or smoke as the call progresses. It is a lot less often, she says she is not drinking “just because” anymore.  Thank goodness

So to answer the question,  I just say I gotta go pretty soon and she responds like she is fine with it. I guess from typing this I can see she knows I am going above and beyond my usual level of chit chat and is happy with that

Just hard to worry one hour she could do something and I’d lose her and hours later want to get away from it. But not her I want to get away from but intoxicated talking! Thanks always!

[DharmaGate]

 Wendydarling, love that name! Sorry missed this earlier. About harm reduction, linehan, using vacation... .”your DD wants to hear more from you as you find out, share with her. How do you feel about that?” I am just so glad she is talking about it openly, as usual we have some weird split in our family... .around those that drink and those that don’t. She understandably looks up to my brother and sister in law and they drink as a lifestyle. So any discussion is great. It would make total sense to me to try and get more skills on board and reduce the using.  I wonder if this approach is working, I don’t know. I just know she has so much shame around the issue it is so encouraging she is talking. Thanks always!

[Only Human]

DharmaGate,

It sounds like your current approach with ending phone calls is working, that's great! That DD is so accepting of the termination tells me you're doing it "right." 

How'd the first day of work go for DD?

~ OH

p.s. thanks for commenting on the conversations I am posting. I appreciate your support! 

[DharmaGate]

Only Human, thanks for asking about her job I was just typing it out for myself to process and saw your post

Daughter started new job yesterday, had to wait two months till new training session started.  Her anxiety has been really really bad worse I have ever seen it.  She called about three fourths of the way through the day for ride home, had thrown up ect, looked like she was in shock when I got there, shaking and white.  She went today and then left and went back home, trainer said it was fine she can do this  test anyway.  

A couple of weeks ago she said she liked the counselor where she went five years ago and had it in her back pocket in case of emergency. I said we wouldn't know she was still there, I offered to check and see, Anyway after seeing her yesterday I stopped at the agency to see what the process was, waiting lists ect.  I texted her the intake woman's card and name, saying I hope I didn't over step but was concerned it might not be an option because of waits ect.  She said no it was absolutlutly  fine.  This agency does dbt, dbt lite, alcohol and drug and mental health. So struggle is I need to leave it alone I believe, not bring it up, it is her decision, believe I need to let it go, but want to make one more sell on it, plea, ect. Soo hard.  She could have a life if she would accept some help:(

Also ironically my dbt book went to her house, it arrived today from Amazon because I don't want stuff left at my apartment, so she has that to look at if she wants.

So any help problem solving if I should bring up subject of help, leave it alone, I am getting a little frustrated, feeling a little victimish and probably been doing a little rescuing and don't want to become a persecutor.  So winning triangle is ... .assertive, caring and vulnerable.  Maybe I could safely at some point just say I am scared, but I need to be careful that she does not start care taking me.  Won't do anything right now.  

The other problem is we have all these polarized identity politics going in our family, those that embrace counsling, those that don't, those that drink those that don't... .My daughter up till now has rejected the ones I do... Don't drink and get help and embraced what my mom, bro and sis do drink and don't get help. So really main reason I feel I need to say little on it.  Also her husband of one year does not understand mental illness but he is getting scared and frustrated with these sudden shifts also.

[Lollypop]

Hey dharma gate

What a fabulous post. I’m pleased as punch you’re feeling steadier and your daughter feels it too. Well done!

My question now is how to skillfully address my wanting to avoid my daughter at times because of substance abuse, I hear slurry words on phone and I gotta go!

I leave my son alone to his addictions. I gave up trying to change him because I can’t. This is my radical acceptance. How I address his drug use is by ignoring it if I see he’s high. He’s recently taken up drinking and arrives with an open bottle of beer in his hand. I ignore it. SOmetimes, he’ll raise the issue , something about his health or his plans to clean up his act - this I can validate. I think if he was pressing for a conversation and I knew he was unable to talk because he was off his face I think I’d cut the chat and use SET.

Is this what you were after?

LP  

[DharmaGate]

Lollipop lost it all! Will write again later. Yes that’s what I was after thank you! Phone typing stinks!

Our objective is to better understand the struggles our child faces and to learn the skills to improve our relationship and provide a supportive environment and also improve on our own emotional responses, attitudes and effectiveness as a family leaders

[DharmaGate]

Lollipop so weird second time my typing went away here! I am going to hit post see what happens. Never mind anyway I was thanking you for the freedom I feel in your posts, I want it!
Thank you for explaining the baby steps, learning, practicing, it has taken to get there.

Wishing u great day!