If you end BPD relationship, how do you get over the guilt?

[Before you can make things better, you have to stop making them worse...]

This is my biggest issue, the guilt over feeling like I'm abandoning him. He's a BPD waif, so he's very sad and forlorn when he's down. It's impossible for me not to feel compassion for him and want to help him and take care of him. That's my first emotional reaction.
 I know logically I want an equal partner, one who I can encourage but who will also encourage me when I'm down. I want equal give and take.
But the guilt...How have others on here dealt with that, moved past it?

[WindofChange]

This is my biggest issue, the guilt over feeling like I'm abandoning him. He's a BPD waif, so he's very sad and forlorn when he's down. It's impossible for me not to feel compassion for him and want to help him and take care of him. That's my first emotional reaction.
 I know logically I want an equal partner, one who I can encourage but who will also encourage me when I'm down. I want equal give and take.
But the guilt...How have others on here dealt with that, moved past it?

[WindofChange]

I remember reading a thread on here once about FOG, and it mentions something about punishers and self-punishers. He is definitely a self-punisher. Just a little extra info.

[Mindfried]

The struggle is at what cost to yourself do you continue to care for someone. Do you sacrifice a lifetime full of happiness for a lifetime of conflict and egg shells. At some point they need to stand on their own two feet.

[zachira]

Know that in some way, you are showing your boyfriend that you care about him by ending a relationship that is not healthy for either one of you. He clearly is looking for someone to take care of him without reciprocating. I had a boyfriend end a relationship with me many years ago, and he did it with kindness and compassion while setting firm boundaries. I was very immature and acted very much like my family members with BPD because this is what I had role modeled for me. He taught me that there are ways to end a relationship that can be healing, and I could become a better person if I choose to be. It has been many years now, and I think of what he taught me about love and respect for self and others.

[WindofChange]

Mindfried, I know you're right. He does need to stand on his own two feet. I think he has just always been able to get people to help him and take care of him. And I agree that I don't want the rest of my life to be this way.
 It's hard when he swears he's working on getting better. Then I am tempted to wait it out. But I know I have already waited a long time and have tried extremely hard, like we all have on here.
Zachira, you make an interesting statement in saying it would actually be a caring thing to do. I've had times where I've wondered if it would force him to rally and develop some independence--or if he'd just find someone else to fill the caretaker role. He has been in therapy regularly for close to a year now, and this T diagnosed him formally with BPD (although I knew it a couple of years ago). Maybe he is on the road to healing. I hope so. I would love to find the right words to end the relationship with kindness and compassion (and firm boundaries) the way your old boyfriend did. That's impressive, especially the fact that you can look back on it and view it in that light.
I think I need to really analyze the things he says and see them for what they are when he tries to manipulate. I do call him on some things. And I need to read more about FOG and how to deal with it. This evening he tried to guilt trip me about something and I recognized it and said I would not be made to feel guilty over the issue. Then he turned to saying he just felt he wasn't good enough for me, or anyone else. That waif thing. It's just hard to tell sometimes, what part is truly his depression and what part is just how he pulls people in and gets their sympathy? He has admitted he does this. A few months ago he said he was talking to his therapist and told her that he was afraid that if he changed his behavior and wasn't a waif anymore, how could he be sure people would even want to be around him or get involved with him anymore? I was surprised he shared that with me, actually. Anyway, I know my posts are long, but it's my way of venting everything out. My friends and family don't get it at all, but I know other people here do.

[JNChell]

Hi WoC. I’m speaking to your OP and thread title. I’m not able to relate to the guilt of leaving because I was left, but I can relate to the guilt that you’re feeling and expressing.

It’s quite a conundrum to feel guilt over doing something that is based on our best interests. I bet that when you step outside of the situation and look at it from a logical POV, you ask yourself why you’re feeling guilt for making choices that put you first and benefit your own well being.

For some of the members here, guilt is a deeply ingrained response that stems far back into our personal history. Basically, it’s a habit. It’s like an algorithm. An automatic response to another’s feelings.

For me, I was conditioned to react this way from a very early age. Having that little piece of knowledge has been a real game changer for me. I spend a lot of time on the PSI (parent, sibling, in law)  board. Have you done any reading on that board?

I’m sorry that you’re feeling guilt over leaving your ex and I understand that that can be a factor in staying connected. I understand how your feelings are affecting you, but I urge you to put yourself first. There is nothing wrong with self care and every person deserves to love themselves. You’re not responsible for your ex’s feelings and he’s not responsible for your’s. Happy Easter, WoC.

[Euler2718]

It would be ironic (and in the realm of possibility) if, about a month or so after you're done, here finds a new "perfect love" and you do not matter to him much. Then your guilt issues would be gone! Butt you would have as new issue which is feeling like you were just an easily replaceable actor in someone else's play.

I only say this because of course mine cried for a month and then started sexually with a new man ("he's wonderful! He used to be a sommelier!") She met on match.com. he may have been replaced by now but I'm not gonna ask.

[WindofChange]

Hey, JNChell, thanks for your response. When I look at it logically, and when I'm out with friends or family members, or even by myself, I do feel like it just makes sense to end things because in the long run this isn't good for me. But then when I talk to him or especially when I spend time with him, I start questioning everything again. I start doing the "what if" thing again.
Your posts (and others') about dealing with things from childhood (and the fact that I've lived with my mother the past year) have made me wonder where my excessive guilt comes from. My mother really has many great qualities and I know she loves me. That said, living with her as a child was hard at times because she had a very volatile temper and was frightening when she was in a rage. She was very moody and could be controlling and then childish by turns. She was (and is) also pretty manipulative with the guilt tripping thing. I'm just starting to see that. So I'm sure a big part of it comes from my experiences with her. You didn't ever want her angry with you. Not that she was physically abusive, really, although we did get spanked. But the rages, with her wild-eyed and yelling at everyone were awful. So, I probably need to explore that with my T.
It's interesting that you ask about the PSI board. I actually visited it a couple of days ago and plan to continue to do so. So I'm assuming you've found it helpful as well. I really appreciate your responses and want to say happy Easter to you also!

[WindofChange]

Hi Euler2718. Thanks for replying. Wow, your ex picked up with another guy a month later? That had to hurt. Were you still in contact with her then? I didn't know if she let you know or if someone else did. How did you deal with it?
I do wonder if he will get involved with someone else quickly. I know last summer he  put up a dating profile on some website not long after we broke up (I know this from stalking him on social media, yeah, not something I'm proud of). He says he never actually went out with anyone, but who knows? He's lied to me other times. I hope he will work on himself more before getting involved with someone else but I have no control over that. And yes, it would hurt if he jumped right into a sexual relationship with someone. I'd just rather not know. My biggest fear is the suicide thing. I struggle with letting go of feeling responsible for keeping him from doing anything. I know logically that isn't a reason to stay with someone, but the worry is hard to overcome. He isn't threatening anything now, but he has in the past.

[Euler2718]

That's tough. Mine told me she was gonna move on and then did some. She has sent me pictures etc. She says I need to let go of the romance so we can be friends. But I don't wanna talk about it. In the meantime I've been dating another girl.

Going on a dating site while you're in a committed relationship seems like a red flag to me. Did that happen to you?

Its all pretty icky stuff

[WindofChange]

Yeah, I don't think I could remain friends at that point. Too painful! My ex only got on the dating site after I moved out and we stopped seeing each other completely. We were apart two months and then got back together again last August. Then we've had two brief breakups in the past 4 months or so. I know it's probably for the best, but I just can't stand the thought of having to hurt him (although he had no trouble being horrible to me last year when we were still living together and engaged). He is better than he was then, but of course I'm not living with him either and don't see him that much. I still love him but I just can't keep going through the ups and downs. I know I can't deal with it any more emotionally. It's just the dread of hurting him and the guilt over it that I will have to work through and get past.

[tlc232]

WindofChange -

Sorry if I am backtracking on some of the things that you may have said earlier, but I want to make sure I knew the background.   How many years have you been together in this relationship?  I know you said you knew two years ago before official categorization by a professional of his BPD, so at least two years.  Also, really understanding this "disease" (it is a very complex mental illness) is an important factor.   Someone very wise on this board once told me (my situation was identical to what I've read from you -- I tried to fix someone for 14 YEARS...it was a huge mistake, and the only thing I regret now that I have been away successfully for several -- time lost) that the reason I was having a hard time coming to terms with it is that I was not affected by the "disease" of BPD and he was.   It is not a normal way of looking at things at all, and they truly believe what they think.    With that said, while you clearly see the manipulation, he sees what he does as survival.   I went through suicide statements, health issues (all the time when the only one he had was mental illness), depression, poor self esteem and many more from him.  I am sure this sounds familiar.

If he feels in any way (and not even logically) that he is not everything to you and that you will never, ever in a million years leave (and even then so), I would bet money that he is already looking for his next landing spot.   What that means is that he is already searching and being the "perfect man" to someone else that he can suck in as a safety net.   You would have NO clue (as that might damage his Plan A) that this is going on.  He won't see this as a breach of trust, but as a way to survive because you are the one failing him...not the other way around.  

My guess is that when he talks to a therapist (mine went and I didn't even know for a long time...it was a secret from someone he shared a relationship for 14 YEARS) it is in a manner to try to suck him/her in the same way.   Poor pitiful victim me... no one understands me... everyone is out to get me...  I have health issues (his family doctor said he had PTSD -- not chronic gastro issues... I laughed way back in the healthy years, but he saw it way before I did!)...     What he really is is a person who will suck the happiness and the life out of you to feed his soul.   He will never support you and in the end, you will be the blame for your inability to make him feel loved --- and you'll never reach that goal.   You'll try to a certain point, but at some point (maybe now), you'll sit down and go..."why am I trying harder and harder and harder to make you feel good when I am getting NOTHING back except words of not doing enough".    That's when you sit back and go " why doesn't this make sense"...and then the words of that wise person apply...because YOU don't have the disease, and only he does.    

I came home one night to a fit of rage (his) and he broke things and he took his gun out and waved it around, and said he was leaving (but didn't - packed and stormed around the property trying to scare me further at MY home).  He even manhandled a family member who came trying to protect me.   I called the cops...had the locks changed while he was held and a protective order placed.    I ignored the guilt in my head and put his things in a box off the property.    He broke into my home while I was at work several weeks later and tried to take as much stuff as he and some friends could get their hands on until the police came (I have security cameras)...   And months later, I got a text from his married girlfriend of several years because she was afraid of losing Prince Charming because apparently he was discussing to her trying to come "home".    Any tiny shred of guilt left dissipated completely and while she thought she had won my prize...  I cried tears of JOY.  

If only I had known two years earlier... I would have broken the guilt and worries of suicide (you are never responsible for what anyone else does -- ever) and ran a long time ago.

This is MY story, but I think it will resonate a lot with you.   Don't think that he isn't already working on Plan B (I would have NEVER believed it in my situation, but the only thing that was missing in my ex's BPD story was the new person to fix what ailed him...she was there, I just didn't know it).

I went no contact...and I have a new lease on LIFE...and you deserve that too.     Sorry so long, but I wanted you to know that there really are other people here that understand what you are saying.    I really do.    It gets down to saving him or yourself.   And you will never be able to save him...  It's a terrible disease.

[Wicker Man]

I spent the weekend thinking about guilt in the context of ending my relationship with my undiagnosed ex partner.  For me there was sadness and pity, but no guilt.  Sadness for the loss of a beautiful dream, sadness for the loss of her and sadness for myself. 

The pity came once I learned what Borderline Personality disorder was and what the ramifications are for her. 

When our relationship ended we are on more or less equal footing.  She broke up with me, I spent a couple days thinking about it and then agreed we needed to end things.  Our relationship seemed to be devolving into a kill or be killed situation.  Someone was going to be hurt very very badly -if I had not agreed to end it then at some later date she would have either continued to threaten breaking up (seizing complete control of our relationship) or simply vanished. 

If I had remained with her, I have a strong feeling, she would have attempted to swing the balance of power in the relationship completely to her side.  At this point there would have been hell to pay for me.  I have said over and over I have never been loved with such passion -and I sure as hell have never ever ever been hated with such passion.  When the wheels flew off it was very very difficult to reach the kind part of her -making a thriving relationship unlikely.

I reiterate these thoughts because in my mind I had no alternative other than to preserve myself.  I had to choose my wellbeing over my love for her.  She loved me, but this neither implies nor expresses any ability on her part, at this point in her life, to have a healthy relationship. 

It never occurred to me to feel guilty when my actions were done completely without malice -I really saw no real alternative.

Something to consider.  I read sometimes survivors of a catasterphy feel guilt (survivor's guilt).  In some cases the guilt they feel is a subconscious attempt to protect themselves from grief --so the grief ends up repressed and unreconciled.

Be sad for him, be sad for you. I should guess you spent a lot of time caring for him.  Now it is time to care for yourself.  Show yourself the same nurturing love you showed him.


Wicker Man   

[WindofChange]

TLC232, my God, what a horror story! Having to call the cops, him manhandling a family member, and then breaking in and stealing from you, ugh. All on top of all of the other BPD stuff. How awful! And then, a married girlfriend, too? Wow. I'm so glad for you that you are free of him. I can't imagine dealing with that, especially after 14 years with him, and all that being with a BPD person entails...
As for my BPD person, we've been together 7 years. We lived together 2 years and were engaged for 1. Currently we have lived apart for 1 year now. He has hinted about when we move back in together, and I just don't really respond. He still has no job, but has had some interviews. I truly do hope one of them works out for him.
I am better than I was a year ago. When I left him, I was completely shattered by the effects of our last year of living together. He was horrible. Angry all the time, mean, hurtful. Lying to me about going to dinner with other women when out of town for training (he swears it was just platonic and he just didn't want to have conflict so it was easier to lie). ST all weekend, then coming out of his room when I was ready to go to bed Sunday evening and deciding he wanted to talk to me then. And getting offended when I wanted to go to bed because I had to get up early for work the next day. I do get that they manipulate to get their needs met. He definitely was good at it. Now I recognize some of it and call him on it or just stand firm.
The physical attraction is hard to overcome, and the fact that I have loved him so intensely for so long. I do feel I see some things more clearly now. When I'm away from him, it's easy to see the reasons why this relationship will not work anymore long term. When I spend time with him and he holds me close like he needs me desperately, and whispers to me how much he loves me, then things are not so clear. Obviously, I will have to do no contact. I just don't feel strong enough to break that bond for good. I feel it's necessary, but I don't know how to accomplish it.
Wicker Man, I get what you're saying about the guilt. I am sad, too, for both of us. I grieve for the fact that we both wanted so much for it to work out, and talked often of spending the rest of our lives together. As I've said before, I had this vision of how it could be, if and when he got better. And he is trying to get better, I think.  And I'm so sad for him because he suffers so much, with the trauma and nightmares from his past. He tells he would be able to sleep if I'd stay all night more often with him. Maybe that's manipulation, maybe it isn't. I don't know. The temptation to give in and stay with him is powerful sometimes. But I did it before, I lived with him, and it didn't really help. In fact, that's when it all went south for us, maybe because I saw him all the time, and we weren't able to get away from each other when we fought or when he was depressed, etc. I don't know.
But as for now, I know it isn't healthy for me to stay with him and deal with the emotional ups and downs any longer. I need stability. I need support when I'm down. I have my own issues with depression sometimes. I struggle with feeling like I'm failing him and abandoning him if I end things between us. I also hate letting go because I've loved him so very much. But maybe he will get better, or at least function better, in a relationship with someone more stable. Sorry, I'm rambling on quite a bit. Thanks for reading and for your responses and encouragement.

[JNChell]

when I'm out with friends or family members, or even by myself, I do feel like it just makes sense to end things because in the long run this isn't good for me.

Right? It becomes easier to talk sense into ourselves when we’re not subjected to the dysfunction. Having to or agreeing to see them in person creates a pull. A “tug-of-war”. If you want to detach you shouldn’t see him anymore for an undetermined amount of time. If ever again. This is where you have the opportunity to shift your thoughts onto you.

I did this a year and a half ago. I’m a much better man for looking inward. It’s been productive.

What does WoC want out of life?

[WindofChange]

What do I want out of life? Wow, that's a good question...
I want to get my MSW and embark on a different career, I want a closer relationship with God and with nature. I want a life without unnecessary drama.
Life is damned hard enough at times without all of this emotional upheaval. I want to be at peace with myself, with who I am, with my life choices, and just generally where I am in my life. I want to be healthy and active and enjoy life.  I want good relationships with my sons, other family members and friends.  And I want a relationship with a stable, loving, supportive man who has similar views on life and who can make me laugh.
Think that's asking for too much?
I know, I just have to end it. And stand firm, with no contact. Zero, zip, none.

[Wicker Man]

I was completely shattered by the effects of our last year of living together. He was horrible. Angry all the time, mean, hurtful. Lying to me...

This is the mantra I keep repeating more or less (horrible, angry, hurtful and lying). The lies, oh the horrible lies.  This was really the dealbreaker for me.  Trust and respect are the two pillars love is built upon in my opinion.  It was actually her lying which put my heart at ease about ending our relationship.  If someone lies chronically then what is the point is speaking with them at all?

The physical attraction is hard to overcome, and the fact that I have loved him so intensely for so long.

I have read no one will love you with the intensity of someone suffering from BPD -until they don't...  

My ex was lovely to look at and extremely passionate.  However beauty is only skin deep -she was beautiful on the inside (most of the time).  Sex is important in a relationship, but the relationship itself is most important.  Can you count on them?  Will they be there for you?  It makes me desperately sad to say, but I fear my ex feels sex and physical beauty is the only thing which makes her a desirable companion.  She dwells on sex because she cannot understand her inner beauty -her sense of identity seems to change, but her sexuality seems to be a common thread.  Tragically, I believe her using sex to have companionship, stave off boredom, or for revenge, feeds into a cycle of shame and self loathing.

...and he holds me close like he needs me desperately, and whispers to me how much he loves me, then things are not so clear.

If our people with BPD could only hold onto this kindness -having needs is just fine.  I told mine I never yelled back at you because I knew when you were raging you were scared.  I said if only you could trust in us enough to just say 'I am scared'.  She said when the rage comes it flips on like a switch and she is consumed in it.

I grieve for the fact that we both wanted so much for it to work out, and talked often of spending the rest of our lives together.

'Always and forever' was what she said to me -and the words came out as clear as a bell, because when she said it by God she meant it with every fiber of her being.  It was a truism erupting from her soul.  Then... She could forget completely about us, or fall into a blind rage, or continue having inappropriate conversations with all manner of men.  The most confusing and tragic aspect of BPD is the lack of object permanence and fractured memory.  No matter how much you love them and they love you... they can forget.  

He tells he would be able to sleep if I'd stay all night more often with him. Maybe that's manipulation, maybe it isn't.

Mine was afraid of the dark and had horrific (and fascinating) nightmares.  She said she had never slept so well as when we were together (lie? or a sweet truth?).  She also was surprised I didn't think her dreams were stupid.  Her dreams were akin to night terrors -they were absolutely real to her.  In fact we had an argument and finally I carefully said 'Is it possible you told me this in a dream and that is why I cannot remember?'  Her eyes went wide and said 'Yes that is completely possible.'

I struggle with feeling like I'm failing him and abandoning him if I end things between us. I also hate letting go because I've loved him so very much.

Forgive me if you have already written this in a separate thread -but...  You obviously care for him deeply.  Has he tried DBT?  Do you think he can introspect enough to know how he deals with relationships is unhealthy and perhaps he would benefit from some manner treatment?

I am asking this a devil's advocate.  If he does not have the willingness or ability to make changes in order to have a chance at a healthy relationship then he is making your choice for you.

From your last post is sounds like you have made up your mind -which is really good and not easy to do.  Knowing the right questions to ask is half the battle.

Wicker Man

[WindofChange]

Wicker Man, reading your post makes me so sad for what you went through... and I see the similarities as well. I think in my case that he feels the same way about sex--that it is the main thing he can offer me that will make me want to stay. I told him many times over the years that our relationship was so much more than that. When it was good, it was amazing, truly. I know your relationship was the same. But when it's bad...well, you know.
He is seeing a T but the therapy is trauma-focused, because of the abuse he suffered as a child. She officially diagnosed him with BPD and c-PTSD several months ago. I've suggested DBT to him as well, but this T doesn't really offer that. My hope is that he will seek it in the future. Sometimes I think that maybe someday, years from now, he will be better and we'll meet again. But right now I think he has a lot of work to do toward healing. I think I have some work to do also. But as far as our relationship goes, I know that as things stand my needs would not be met long term. I don't feel I can depend on him for support, emotional or financial. He is unreliable and irresponsible in other ways, has been out of work for a year, but refuses to consider anything but a first shift office type of position, even though his ex-wife has to take care of most of his D7's needs. That really bothers me. This is the longest period of time he's been out of work, but it isn't the first time over the past 7 years. Maybe he needs to be on disability. I don't know. But I do know that over time, I would come to resent him if I couldn't depend on him to help out financially. I want an equal partner, not a dependent.
Despite knowing all of these things, I'm still trying to deal with the guilt and the anticipated worry about ending things because of the hurt it will cause him. I hate to do anything that upsets anyone, and now I have to hurt someone I've loved very deeply who has loved me in return. I hate it. I feel awful for it.

[JNChell]

That’s a damn fine list of wants. Go get them.

A life without drama sounds nice. Coming out of that isn’t always easy. We’re used to it. It’s a normal thing. We gravitate towards it. It’s subconscious.

That’s the first thing that you should realize and accept if you’re ready to detach. Are you ready to move on?

[Wicker Man]

...as things stand my needs would not be met long term... ...I don't feel I can depend on him for support, emotional or financial.

My therapist told me the 4 roles of marriage are: Intimacy, Parenting, financial partnership, and friendship.  If a couple has 2 of these 4 he said it is a good relationship.

"After watching thousands of couples argue in his lab, he [Dr. John Gottman] was able to identify specific negative communication patterns that predict divorce. He called them The Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse"  Criticism, Defensiveness, Contempt and Stonewalling. With Contempt being the most dangerous. 

*Paraphrased from https://www.gottman.com/blog/this-one-thing-is-the-biggest-predictor-of-divorce/

These behaviors create a distance and isolation cascade... I.e. loneliness, resentment, and ultimately parallel lives.  When there is a core problem in a relationship and it is not dealt with the problem, over time, creates an immovable and ever present obstacle -emotional gridlock.  It takes both members working in tandem to escape this cascade.  I.e. We cannot do it alone or for our partners.

We read here on BPD Family over and over the coping mechanisms for someone suffering from BPD when they are upset include...Criticism, Defensiveness, Contempt and Stonewalling.  This is what makes BPD such an ironic and tragic personality disorder.  They feel an overwhelming need for love, and yet their behavior seems perfectly tailored to destroy relationships. 

As JNChell said we normalize the extraordinary.  We begin to accept behavior which, perhaps, in other times of our lives we would have found unacceptable.  It is difficult to stop and realize things are not healthy or sustainable.

I have to hurt someone I've loved very deeply who has loved me in return. I hate it. I feel awful for it.

You should be proud of yourself for being honest about your relationship being unsustainable.  It is difficult to step out of a system (your relationship) and observe it with honesty and clarity.  If the relationship is doomed it is better to end it -far easier said than done, but it is the right thing to do.


Wicker Man

[WindofChange]

Wicker Man and JNChell, I appreciate your posts and the points you make. I really do. JNChell, I want to move on, I want to detach, and I want to make changes. But...he is in such a bad place. He's running out of money, his rent is due soon and he isn't able to pay it. He said today he didn't know why I bothered with him, said he's basically a failure and a bum. He also said someday he knows he will get up the nerve to kill himself, he knows it as a fact, and I should save myself the pain of that and get out now. Then later tonight he called to say good night and didn't understand why I sounded so down. I don't understand this behavior at all. Some of this situation is self-induced. He could find some kind of work but feels with his issues from some old sports injuries that doing factory work would end up causing him some kind of permanent injury and then he wouldn't be able to work at all. He couldn't do it for 2-3 months? I don't understand. He applied for disability once but was turned down. I told him to apply again, if he feels he is unable to work. It is so heartbreaking to watch someone just continue to spiral down but refuse to help themselves. Wicker Man, I know you went through this. What did you finally say when you ended it?
The suicide talk is more than I can bear. He has tried before, once since I've known him, and a couple of times years ago. But how do I end things now, when he is so down? It seems like the worst possible time. Do I wait it out some more? I really don't know what to do. I feel the timing is so bad. Any suggestions? I know I'll have to decide for myself, but I am struggling here and your input really helps.

[I Am Redeemed]

WofC,

What if he wasn't so down right now?

Would you be able to end it then?

Or do you think you would see signs of hope that he might be improving, talk yourself into hanging around a little longer to see if it's true?

If you are waiting for the ideal time to end things, mainly because of the anxiety it causes you to end it, you probably, most likely, never will find that window of opportunity. It's a moving goalpost.

[WindofChange]

Hi Redeemed,
I have certainly talked myself out of it before and hung onto that hope. Right now I feel like I wouldn't, because I was so let down this last time. I'm tired, tired to death of it all. I am just feeling stuck because of the fear that he will kill himself. I know it's wrong to let that fear control my actions, and I know threats of suicide can be used to hold a person hostage, but I still feel that way. I am just not sure how to get past the fear.

[Wicker Man]

Wicker Man, I know you went through this. What did you finally say when you ended it?

Wind of Change the demise of our relationship was actually quite a bit different.  I flew back to the US on December 7th (not accidental) to wrap things up here and then move back to stay.  She was under a lot of pressure from family and neighbors in their compound to figure out an apartment to purchase.  I believe between me being away and the stress from those around her trying to 'help' threw her into a very dark place.  Once she spiraled into it she could not find her way out.

By December 10th (it only took 3 days for the wheels to fly off) she was raging on the phone every time we spoke.  Keep in mind during this time I am finalizing a divorce preparing one home for sale (my wife's dream vacation home) and trying to get my things out of the other one.  As I live and breath I was concurrently trying to figure out her retirement(!), health insurance for both of us, bilingual education for a child we didn't have... 

I was under so much pressure it was palpable.  She and I saw relationships in a very different light.  For me a relationship and love imply responsibility both to her and myself.

By the 5th day of her raging I knew something was truly not right and I offered to fly back to Beijing immediately -she said it would be a waste of time and money.  Then I told her we needed to wait until I booked my next movie before we decided on a place to purchase.  She lost her mind.  All she heard was 'He said we are not buying a home -he lied.'

A few days later (oh! the ironic perfection... it was my birthday...  With the 16 hour time difference she didn't know) she said "... Then we have nothing more to talk about".  I was poleaxed.  I could not process how we could go from seeing the fruition of our dream, the dream of us becoming a family, to her breaking us in one week.

Certainly, now from a more sober perspective, I can see how dysfunctional the entire situation was -but in the fray it was incredibly painful and confusing.  Her rage very likely saved my life as I know it.  Things would not have gotten better -I think I only saw the tip of the dysfunctional iceberg I had planted my flag upon.

The major difference between my situation and what you are facing is... all I had to do was agree with her we should end the relationship.  '...All I had to do...'  It was the most painful thing I have ever done.  She said 'So...this means we will never speak again?'  I answered 'Yes'. 

She was weeping silently.  When we first met she would never make a sound when crying -I believe it meant a beating in her childhood.  After we had been together for sometime and I ensured her crying and sadness are a normal part of life she began to make the usual sounds someone does when they cry.  It was horrible to see her revert back to her childhood pain.

She is capable of working, although there is drama and dysfunction (of course) in her work place.  Her boss is her ex-lover.  He is married and lied to her about it (allegedly) until they had conceived a child --terminated.  In 20/20 hindsight and a rather dark view of her flirtatious relationship with the truth I should guess they were still intimate now and again -and are likely still to this day.

She was in good shape for money -I estimated she had about >18 months of burn time before she would even have to take another movie.  'Our' rent was paid for 6 months and I told her to keep 'our money' so she could have time to figure out what she wanted to do with her life.

I Am Redeemed has a very valid and salient point.  There is never a good time to end things.  Either he will be in too dire a circumstance or things will be on an up tick and you may lose your resolve until things cycle back to a low.

Perhaps the question at hand is -Do you see things ever changing?  His unwillingness to see his vocational situation in a responsible light is not something you can change.  Of course you or I would take the manufacturing job for a few months while shopping our resumes around to find something else. 

Perhaps this parable might help.

My brother and I were adopted.  I was the progeny of a couple of college students (it was the 1960s).  In retrospect we feared my brother was born of a heroine addict.  He was a mess (screamed for the first 9 months of his life. Setting fires by 4 years old stealing habitually by 9 -then the drugs began...) and my mom kept having to save him.  At what point do you let your child go to jail?  Hundreds of thousands of dollars, which my parents didn't really have, spent on lawyers, military schools, therapy etc. Our family wobbled in the orbit of this dysfunctional person.  Well... Finally he did end up going to jail and it was what ultimately straightened him out.  Currently (for him) he is doing well -the bar is pretty low, but he has a small house and no longer breaks the law.  On again off again at work, but he is no longer a nihilistic menace.

My mother was enabling, but I can understand it.  My brother would run up to the abyss over and over -my mom could not let her baby boy fall in.  The damage done to our family was extraordinary!  It ruin my parent's marriage and by the time my brother went to jail my mother was an empty shell.  There was nothing I could do to help her find any joy in life -trying to save my brother destroyed her.  I moved my mother out here and renovated a home for her over 18 months -she virtually never left it.  Instead of a home it became a joyless crypt. 

My therapist told me people with personality disorders often have to hit rock bottom to make a change -or even see their dysfunctional coping mechanisms.  I had friends telling me perhaps our relationship helped 'Dream Come True' -I never wanted that solace. I ended it for me -not for her or us.  It was the selfishness of self preservation which she forced upon me.  She made me feel like it was kill or be killed.


Wicker Man

[WindofChange]

Wow, Wicker Man. Thank you for sharing your story. I am blown away. I can't imagine coming home to settle things and make preparations to go back to officially start your lives together--and to get that response while away. I am sure you were devastated. To go from looking forward to a happy future with the person you love...to having things end like that.
As for your family story, I feel I have no adequate words to respond. I'm glad your brother is doing better, but how sad for your mother and for the family that you all went through so much when he was growing up. I do understand the point, which was that he had to hit bottom and experience the consequences of his actions in order to make the choice to work on getting better.
As for my person with BPD...he blew up this morning over my refusing his invitation to have dinner with him and his daughter for tomorrow. I have a family member who plays in a band and they are doing a fundraiser tomorrow night, and it had slipped my mind (can't imagine why). When I told him about it in text, he had a fit. He also got into it with his ex-wife, who started telling him what a horrible person and parent he is, which made things even worse. This evening he started telling me he was going to just start driving until he ran out of money, and everyone else would be better off. He's been out of contact for about 5 hours. His best friend hasn't spoken to him either. He's done similar things before, and it is anxiety provoking, as you can imagine. Is he just being dramatic? I really don't know. I don't think so. He's in a pretty bad place emotionally. I don't know what to do. Well, short of running over to his apartment to see if he's home, what can I do? Call the police? He didn't outright say he was driving off to kill himself. I guess there is not much I can do. I have to leave it in God's hands. I pray he's safe and that the Lord puts people in his path to stop him if his aim is to end his life. I am so worried and afraid for him...but...(and this probably sounds selfish) I just cannot do this anymore. I am exhausted.

[I Am Redeemed]

It's not selfish that you feel that your capacity to deal with his instability is stretched beyond the limits. It's completely understandable. I have seen many other members here, myself included, who experienced the same feeling while the pwBPD was in yet another crisis. In fact, I would be willing to bet that just about all the members here who have had to repeatedly deal with the chaos and drama have felt the way you feel at one time or another.

You can be sad for him, but I think the guilt you feel comes from you owning something that isn't yours. Is he really any better off with you than if the relationship completely ended? I don't mean that to sound short or rude, I just simply mean that you might be believing that you are somehow keeping him from emotional pain by not ending the relationship, when it's obvious that he is still finding ways to be a complete mess with you still continuing to see him. How much good are you really doing him by staying? How much good are you doing yourself?

I am sorry for this latest development. Hopefully he will calm down and go back home soon, but I know that you are experiencing worry and anxiety, and that's really hard. You are right that placing him in God's hands is all you can do, and honestly, whose hands would be better?

Coming to terms with the fear of ending the relationship is a process for many of us. It was for me. I held on way past the red danger zone. My ex was incredibly low functioning, and physically abusive, and yet it took me years to stop letting the guilt make my decisions for me. It's more difficult for some than others, particularly those with compassion and empathy, like you have.

I finally got to my breaking point, where I just knew that it was either face the guilt or stay trapped, and I was ready to push through. It took a long, long, long time to get there, though.

[WindofChange]

You make good points, Redeemed. Maybe you're right. I do know that when we lived together, he didn't really exhibit the suicide ideation much. He was very depressed at times, very angry and emotionally abusive, and during the last few months when we lived together is when he held a knife to his wrist to try to force me to say something. But before we lived together, he had times of taking Ativan and then driving around. (After a really bad episode, he stopped taking the Ativan.) After I moved out is when he drank alcohol and took a bunch of muscle relaxers.  This is when I called 911 and they took him to the hospital.
The point I'm trying to make is that although he still experienced the emotional pain and was at times really horrible to live with, he didn't openly talk of ending his life like he has recently. So maybe that's why I felt that when we were living together he was a little better. Now I only see him a couple of times a week, although we talk every day.
I spoke to his best friend last night, who said that they would let him move in with them for a while until he gets on his feet. He lived with them before a few years ago during a period of unemployment. They have room. The only issue is that he wouldn't be able to have his daughter stay with him half the week, as his ex-wife doesn't like them. But it's a safe place to stay. I texted my BPD person to tell him that, and suggested he give notice at his apartment so he doesn't get evicted (no response). And yes, here I am again, owning something that isn't mine. Maybe he has always done this, found people to take care of him. When I moved out last year, he had friends come to help him move. They had to go and buy boxes and pack his stuff for him, as he hadn't done it. And they did it.
I've said before on here that I wonder if he would be better off with someone who makes a good living, who is very stable emotionally, who would take care of him. Then maybe he could feel safe and secure, and could just work on healing. But that person is not me.

[I Am Redeemed]

The suicidal ideation can be really scary. I understand why you are afraid that might return if you were to end the relationship.

You are probably right that he will always need or seek out people who will not just help him, but do things for him.

Maybe he would be better off with the kind of person you described. It would be a terribly one-sided relationship. You know that isn't what you want, and that's OK.

I think my stbx uBPDh will probably never take care of himself either, not really. I spoke to his mother on Easter. She said he has gone through all of the tax refund money he got (I stupidly let him claim s3, just to see if he would actually get on his feet with it). He is still living in a motel, still doesn't have a car, still doesn't have a driver's license. Said he paid three people to take him to get his license, and for whatever reason, none of them actually took him. I don't understand that. His mother also doesn't understand why he didn't just take a taxi to the DMV. I guess he has a need to be a victim and have excuses for not doing this, that, or the other. We both think he spent the money on scratch off lottery tickets, eating out, and maybe marijuana.

Next year, I plan to claim s3 myself, with no guilt. I tried one last time to help him, even from NC, and it didn't work. He would rather stay stuck and blame everyone else.

[WindofChange]

Wow, Redeemed. Well, that victim stance sounds very familiar. That's so sad. That's really generous of you that you tried to help him, even after all he put you through. Yeah, I don't understand the driver's license thing, that makes no sense at all. Although it could also be lies, who knows, right? It is just sad.
My T said about my BPD person that he always sees himself as the victim, just from what I've described to her. It breaks my heart, it just truly breaks my heart. So much struggle and emotional angst...and a good deal of it is preventable.

[Harri]

This thread reached the post limit and has been locked.  Please feel free to start a new thread to continue the discussion.