Being met with Passive aggressiveness and stonewalling once again...

[secretgirl]

OMGosh. ok... so last time I wrote a post about my ubpdbf and I , I was venting... then he came over and we made up and talked and then he promised me he would never ignore me again... our main issues are RESOLVING any issue...
Example...
I BRING up a topic/statement/etc. that hurt/upset me or made me feel uncomfortable.
He sees this as a FIGHT as opposed to a TALK.
acts passive aggressive, gives me digs which make me angry/upset. Usually I try not to react.

Anyways... last time I made him promise me that he will be here and never ignore me again during a fight because I don't like going days without talking etc. I do NOT do well with the ST or stonewalling ... generally (as you guys know from my last post), I write him these LONG messages explaining how I feel in the hopes that he will read it days after he's giving me the ST ... sometimes it works, sometimes it backfires on me and he sees it as an attack.

This last time when we made up I stated I will NOT do ST anymore, and that I will NOT be writing him those long messages anymore (these are the boundaries I set for myself).

Anyways... this weekend rolls around and we have another argument because I brought up something he said which made me feel uncomfortable/upset and I told him I was still feeling unhappy about it and would like to resolve it... he asked me to explain and I tried to explain stating that he isn't listening sometimes and I feel invalidated ( I told him to look up invalidation), he then responded to me (yet again) with his usual passive aggressive digs...

This last argument I brought up my unhappiness and he basically told me to "go be weird alone then " and that he "knew I was going to fight again" (just because I brought up something that made me unhappy?) and that I should "go feel miserable about how PLEASE READty I'm behaving and that I can go sulk on my own about it and realize what a big deal I'm making out of nothing as usual"
These are generally his typical responses right before he shuts down... which are, NOT ironically, invalidation again.
I sent him two links on invalidation to read...
and he told me that he's "not reading sh*it because he asked me to explain in my own words why I was upset and that I didn't" (basically it's my fault he won't read them). I explained to him that I have tried multiple times explanining but I think the articles might help him UNDERSTAND my POV better (especially since itgives EXAMPLES of invalidating words HE usually says and explains WHY they're hurtful).

I then replied to him saying that "ok it's fine that you won't read them but I will no longer take responsibility for your side of the relationship" and I told him I have no problem ending it. and he just replied with "sounds good babe." (again, passive aggressive).

I actually have no problem ending it at this point. I feel I've exhausted all my patience, etc. and I AM sad, but not THAT sad anymore, especially seeing that he promised he won't ignore me again and he will be willing to hear my side of the story , yet again, (no surprise) he isn't doing that.
BUT ... I know eventually he will come back as he usually does when this all blows over and at that point I'm not sure what I will do/say.
AND... my T told me I have to STICK to my boundaries , and because I'm a codep. I don't and that's a HUGE problem with BPD because they need boundaries. She told me since I said I will NOT do ST anymore, and that I will NOT send him long messages again after he stonewalls me, I have to do JUST as I said.
My T told me that even if it means risking losing him... it sucks cause I do LOVE him a lot... and see SO much good.

BUT my question here is... has anyone dealt with a petulant borderline before?
I've been reading a bit and noticed 4 subtypes of borderlines posed by an author namd Theodore Million (sp?), and his description of the petulant fits my ubpdbf TO A TEE!.
LEGIT identical in EVERY bit of the list...
Here is the source and here are the main symptoms:

https://www.optimumperformanceinstitute.com/bpd-treatment/petulant-borderline-personality-disorder/


"What is Petulant Borderline Personality Disorder?

Kylie came to Optimum Performance Institute at age 20 for help treating petulant borderline personality disorder, which had made healthy relationships nearly impossible for years.
No one could deny that Kylie’s childhood was difficult. Her mother was an addict, and her father had never been in the picture. She was six years old when she and her sister were removed from their home.
They moved foster homes three times before before their mother’s parental rights were terminated and they were adopted. Her new “parents” were kind, helped her with schoolwork, and included her in everything the rest of the family was doing. Kylie became accustomed to them, but never felt close to them. In fact, she made it a point to keep secrets from her family. Whether the secret was big or the secret was small, it didn’t matter. She liked to know that she wasn’t depending on them and they didn’t know everything about her.
hile Kylie liked her family, she never quite trusted them. The same was true for her friends at school, especially as she got older. What might have been a minor disappointment to someone else, like a friend feeling sick and canceling plans, was an unbearable event to Kylie that often resulted in self-harm to numb the pain and “tell” others that she wasn’t okay. Kylie envisioned that her new friends were flawless, and when they didn’t meet her high expectations of them, she would feel intense frustration or anger and tell her friends that “if you really cared about me, you would…” This was usually too much for her friends to handle, and she had only a few relationships that lasted longer than a year.

What are the Symptoms of Petulant BPD?
•An inability to express feelings
•Outbursts of anger
•Feelings of being unworthy and unloved
•Socially anxious
•Extreme fear of abandonment
•A need to control others
•Experiencing dissatisfaction in relationships
•Co-occurring disorders, such as substance abuse or eating disorders
•Suspicion of others/paranoia in relationships
•Self-harm tendencies
•Intense mood swings
•Posing ultimatums in relationships
•“Proving” that someone doesn’t love her
•Constantly searching for validation
•Push and pull in relationships
•Wanting others to feel guilty for their actions, or lack of actions
•Negative
•Passive-Aggressive https://www.verywellmind.com/what-is-passive-aggressive-behavior-2795481
•Shutting others out of their lives
•Using suicidal behavior or self-injurious behaviors to control others

Most petulant BPD behaviors stem from a fear of abandonment, lack of self-worth, and an inability to self-soothe. With the right treatment, you can resolve these challenges and overcome petulant borderline personality disorder.






ANYWAY... this is LEGIT him to a tee. EVEN the story about the girl Kylie... he also grew up in the exact same way as Kylie. (obv diff experiences but same upbringing/foster homes etc.)
So... I guess my question is, have any of you dealt with this type before? and How do you normally respond/communicate with this type?

[PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES]

PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members may appear frustrated but they are here for constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[once removed]

threats to end the relationship, in general, shouldnt be made unless you are prepared to live by them.

it sounds, mainly, like youre using them as a way to be heard.

I BRING up a topic/statement/etc. that hurt/upset me or made me feel uncomfortable.
He sees this as a FIGHT as opposed to a TALK.
acts passive aggressive, gives me digs which make me angry/upset. Usually I try not to react.

the more specifics you share on the back and forth (the he said/she said) the more we can help.

the two of you have a fighting style. i think if you want this relationship to get on a healthier trajectory, youve got to change how the two of you handle conflict.

[secretgirl]

threats to end the relationship, in general, shouldnt be made unless you are prepared to live by them.

it sounds, mainly, like youre using them as a way to be heard.

the more specifics you share on the back and forth (the he said/she said) the more we can help.

the two of you have a fighting style. i think if you want this relationship to get on a healthier trajectory, youve got to change how the two of you handle conflict.

I think I am prepared to live by them... that's why I said it this time... it sucks it has come to this BUT I DID mention I will leave if he will not be able to effectively communicate or resolve an argument by NOT stonewalling me... so I have to stick to my word. I will not be writing anymore messages afterwards explaining my feelings. I am willing to lose him at the risk of sounding trite.

There definitely is/was a fighting style... I am starting to see a behavioral pattern in his side also... it's always passive aggressiveness and minimization (invalidation). Although, to BREAK the cycle, it must be me. and I must stick to my boundaries and must back up my words with action; however, I have been thinking of one thing my T had mentioned to me and that is figuring out a way to introduce the idea of US against the problem as opposed to you vs. me during an argument...
how must I come about this if he decides to come back to me again?

I will RE ENFORCE my boundaries once again if he comes back. Stating that I will NO longer put up with silent treatment and I want to be heard and have the same effort put into a discussion as I do for him, and I will not be sending long messages if the argument is ended with silent treatment... BUT... how do I introduce the idea ?
How do you successfully rewire a BPD's brain to think of us non's as a non threat and as on their TEAM, as opposed to against one another?

[once removed]

I have been thinking of one thing my T had mentioned to me and that is figuring out a way to introduce the idea of US against the problem as opposed to you vs. me during an argument...

this is a solid idea.

How do you successfully rewire a BPD's brain to think of us non's as a non threat and as on their TEAM, as opposed to against one another?

you do not rewire anyones brain; thats impossible.

you lead by example. you, as the emotional leader, lead the relationship on a healthier trajectory. ideally, our partners follow our lead.

https://bpdfamily.com/content/what-does-it-take-be-relationship

BUT... how do I introduce the idea ?

the first step is stopping the bleeding; dialing back on the stuff that we are bringing to the relationship that is destructive.

we dont have a very good impression of the back and forth between the two of you. it would help us give you a better idea of how you can improve regarding the conflict.

[secretgirl]

this is a solid idea.

you do not rewire anyones brain; thats impossible.

you lead by example. you, as the emotional leader, lead the relationship on a healthier trajectory. ideally, our partners follow our lead.

https://bpdfamily.com/content/what-does-it-take-be-relationship

the first step is stopping the bleeding; dialing back on the stuff that we are bringing to the relationship that is destructive.

we dont have a very good impression of the back and forth between the two of you. it would help us give you a better idea of how you can improve regarding the conflict.

hmmm thank you for the site, I just read bits of it... the one area I think I'm STILL struggling with is the "don't take abuse"... see I'm not sure in these situations what to do exactly without leaving... I have set my boundaries in this position... but then I also feel like I'm abandoning but at the same time, I can't keep being met with silent treatment because it never resolves our situations.

The example of our fight in my first message in this thread is legit how EVERY fight goes down with my ubpdbf and I.

EXAMPLE:
me: "I'm unhappy you said this comment last night on the phone because it made me feel disrespected."
him: "I'm sorry you feel that way."
me: "I just want you to understand how it makes me feel and show me that you care. Sometimes I don't feel like you have true empathy for my feelings in the way you invalidate me."
him: "let's just get over it."
me: "I can't get over it because I'm feeling invalidated... here are some links on invalidation"
him: "I knew you were going to start a fight and you're being weird now so you can go be weird alone."
me: "I'm not starting a fight.. I just want to talk about how I feel... talking is not fighting"
him: "you always start an argument ... I asked you to explain why you felt the way you felt. and now you're telling me to read these links. I'm not reading sh*it because you can't explain it to me. you're funny."
me: "I did explain how your comment made me feel... and I'm only sending the links so that you can understand my POV when you say certain things and how it makes me feel and I just want to help improve our relationship."
him: "well if you can't explain it, I'm not reading sh*it."
me: "ok well I'm no longer taking responsibilities for your side of the relationship then."
him: "ok sounds good babe"


THIS was legit pretty much word for word from this last argument... and mind you, it was after our LAST argument last weekend where he promised me that he would actually listen, be there, put in effort to get to know my side, and never stonewall, give me silent treatment, or leave me ever again...
I guess old habits on his end die hard.
and I KNOW I don't want to abandon but at the same time, I meant what I said... I will no longer tolerate ST to "solve" a problem, because it doesn't. I need to be able to move forward and I thought him and I were on the same page with this when he promised me those words last weekend (I guess this is when he was painting me white though ... he even cries when I cry and he sees me frustrations and pains he causes when I can't talk to him because every time I bring up how I FEEL, he meets me with anger or invalidation).

So at this point, I MUST stick to my words because I'm actually causing MYSELF more pain and suffering than I'd like... and I need to break this cycle.
However, I'm not sure how to even approach anything if he does come back...
he will probably either
a.) meet me with hostility and say something like "so are you having a good time being single?"
OR
b.) meet me with sadness and pose how much he misses me etc and how he's so sorry and he f*ucked up.

thoughts?
This seems to be our cycle. and honestly my patience is running thin and I have caught myself almost getting ANGRY at times when he meets my FEELINGS with anger and hostility and yelling, and that's usually when I take a few breaths to calm myself down before responding.

How do I pose this idea of him and I against the problem?
How do I not ditch without dealing with abuse in the future?

[once removed]

that helps a lot!

I think I'm STILL struggling with is the "don't take abuse"... see I'm not sure in these situations what to do exactly without leaving... I have set my boundaries in this position... but then I also feel like I'm abandoning but at the same time, I can't keep being met with silent treatment because it never resolves our situations.

there arent easy answers to this. we have an entire lesson on Surviving Confrontation and Disrespect: https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=56206.msg913191#msg913191

telling someone "go  yourself" might be an example of "not taking abuse", but it wouldnt be healthy or constructive for the relationship. exiting a relationship might be another example of not taking abuse, but you love this man and want to improve the relationship.

the concept of "not taking abuse" is much better demonstrated in action (healthy and constructive) than words.

i think that for the most part, it involves recognizing when things have broken down beyond the point of no return, and taking a healthy time out (its very important that a healthy time out isnt a punishment move...you dont want to just hear something you dont like, and cut off communication) when necessary. but theres a great deal more to nurturing a relationship than just not taking abuse. you want to nurture the healthy elements. you want to, in times of calm, try to work out the kinks.

me: "I'm unhappy you said this comment last night on the phone because it made me feel disrespected."
him: "I'm sorry you feel that way."
me: "I just want you to understand how it makes me feel and show me that you care. Sometimes I don't feel like you have true empathy for my feelings in the way you invalidate me."
him: "let's just get over it."
me: "I can't get over it because I'm feeling invalidated... here are some links on invalidation"
him: "I knew you were going to start a fight and you're being weird now so you can go be weird alone."
me: "I'm not starting a fight.. I just want to talk about how I feel... talking is not fighting"
him: "you always start an argument ... I asked you to explain why you felt the way you felt. and now you're telling me to read these links. I'm not reading sh*it because you can't explain it to me. you're funny."
me: "I did explain how your comment made me feel... and I'm only sending the links so that you can understand my POV when you say certain things and how it makes me feel and I just want to help improve our relationship."
him: "well if you can't explain it, I'm not reading sh*it."
me: "ok well I'm no longer taking responsibilities for your side of the relationship then."
him: "ok sounds good babe"

from the back and forth, it sounds like things seem to start with something he said from the night before (or a few nights before) upsets you, and you try to revisit it and discuss how it made you feel.

i dont think that theres inherently something wrong with that. its eloquently and carefully worded. its also a bit confrontational and accusatory. the particular comment that upset you is really important though in terms of gauging how he feels about it. is it something that could have been better handled at the time it was said?

him: "I'm sorry you feel that way."

point blank, this is dismissive, not a real apology, and it is invalidating.

me: "I just want you to understand how it makes me feel and show me that you care. Sometimes I don't feel like you have true empathy for my feelings in the way you invalidate me."
him: "let's just get over it."

id stick with the first sentence, the second is a little bit loaded.

his response is important to pay attention to. it says "no thanks, this isnt for me, im not interested". it is not productive, at this point, to pursue it further, to try to have your feelings heard or acknowledged.

the rest of the conversation reflects that. you try to have your feelings heard or acknowledged, he says "im not interested". dont push. it only makes you feel worse, and it escalates the conflict.

bottom line, you are not dating a good listener, but you have bigger problems. right now the two of you are locked in a cycle where you bring something up from the night before, he says its your problem, you push harder to be heard, one or both of you threatens a breakup, the other says "fine then", you go a few days then right back to it.

its a destructive cycle. the answer to breaking it isnt digging in deeper or getting him to see he can lose you. the answer to breaking it is changing your approach, not just in the heat of the moment, not just when things are bad, but when they are good (and building on things where you can, when they are good). its going to require some trial and error on your end. it might require addressing things in the moment, or it might require setting your feelings aside for some time and letting things go while you focus on building on the positive aspects of the relationship and building trust, or it might require saying "this approach doesnt work and i need to step away when things break down and then revisit them". it might require a combination of all of the above; its hard to say, and there arent any guarantees.

does that make sense?

[secretgirl]

that helps a lot!

there arent easy answers to this. we have an entire lesson on Surviving Confrontation and Disrespect: https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=56206.msg913191#msg913191

telling someone "go  yourself" might be an example of "not taking abuse", but it wouldnt be healthy or constructive for the relationship. exiting a relationship might be another example of not taking abuse, but you love this man and want to improve the relationship.

the concept of "not taking abuse" is much better demonstrated in action (healthy and constructive) than words.

i think that for the most part, it involves recognizing when things have broken down beyond the point of no return, and taking a healthy time out (its very important that a healthy time out isnt a punishment move...you dont want to just hear something you dont like, and cut off communication) when necessary. but theres a great deal more to nurturing a relationship than just not taking abuse. you want to nurture the healthy elements. you want to, in times of calm, try to work out the kinks.

from the back and forth, it sounds like things seem to start with something he said from the night before (or a few nights before) upsets you, and you try to revisit it and discuss how it made you feel.

i dont think that theres inherently something wrong with that. its eloquently and carefully worded. its also a bit confrontational and accusatory. the particular comment that upset you is really important though in terms of gauging how he feels about it. is it something that could have been better handled at the time it was said?

point blank, this is dismissive, not a real apology, and it is invalidating.

id stick with the first sentence, the second is a little bit loaded.

his response is important to pay attention to. it says "no thanks, this isnt for me, im not interested". it is not productive, at this point, to pursue it further, to try to have your feelings heard or acknowledged.

the rest of the conversation reflects that. you try to have your feelings heard or acknowledged, he says "im not interested". dont push. it only makes you feel worse, and it escalates the conflict.

bottom line, you are not dating a good listener, but you have bigger problems. right now the two of you are locked in a cycle where you bring something up from the night before, he says its your problem, you push harder to be heard, one or both of you threatens a breakup, the other says "fine then", you go a few days then right back to it.

its a destructive cycle. the answer to breaking it isnt digging in deeper or getting him to see he can lose you. the answer to breaking it is changing your approach, not just in the heat of the moment, not just when things are bad, but when they are good (and building on things where you can, when they are good). its going to require some trial and error on your end. it might require addressing things in the moment, or it might require setting your feelings aside for some time and letting things go while you focus on building on the positive aspects of the relationship and building trust, or it might require saying "this approach doesnt work and i need to step away when things break down and then revisit them". it might require a combination of all of the above; its hard to say, and there arent any guarantees.

does that make sense?

Yes OR, thank you so much... ok so the stepping away from abuse I think I actually HAVE done in the past then... one time he did start yelling and I responded with a SET type of communication which I think was a good example of what you mentioned here.
I told him that I needed to take a step away to think, that I'm not leaving him, but I can't focus when he's yelling at me or bringing up unrelated topics. and it seemed to work so maybe I need to stick to more of that if our arguments escalate...

I am 100% NOT dating a good listener... how does this improve? How do I suggest to improve this with him ACTUALLY markedly changing some behavior to HIS approach?
I'm feeling a bit lost here in terms of what to suggest even when we are on healthy grounds because I feel as though I have communicated this and he did HEAR me at the time he painted me white, and he did ATTEMPT to try to listen but it was almost like he tried for TWO seconds by asking me ONCE to explain... and after that because it wasn't going his way, I was met with impatience, and invalidation.

I'm not sure if I just need to KEEP emphasizing this when we are healthy? Or maybe suggest the time outs if things escalate if I cannot see he's actually listening?

[once removed]

I am 100% NOT dating a good listener... how does this improve?

the best approach is to accept that you arent dating a good listener. it may or may not improve.

i have a very, very close friend. when we were younger, he used to be the worst possible person as a shoulder to cry on. hed always say the wrong thing. the worst thing. id get angry and call him on it. it would happen again. eventually, it clicked with me that that just wasnt his strong suit. we had lots of areas of our friendship that i appreciated. he was hilarious. we had a lot of fun together. he just wasnt a very sensitive guy. i started to focus on the positive aspects of our friendship, and if i needed a shoulder to cry on, i went to someone else. as a result, our friendship improved. the funny thing is, years later, he matured, and hes one of the best shoulders to cry on that i know.

this man is your boyfriend and that was my friend. if hed cheated on me, if hed been abusive, things might have been different, but the dynamics and the outcome may be very similar, and the lesson to be learned is accepting people as they are, with their limitations, and from there, things get a lot more workable.

I'm feeling a bit lost here in terms of what to suggest even when we are on healthy grounds

things arent on very healthy ground. in the past week or so, breakups have been threatened, and youve each told each other "fine then see if i care" until you come around. the first step is really to break the cycle of breakup threats; in my personal experience, theyre toxic, and they destroy trust and the foundation of the relationship.

when things are good, when trust exists, when the foundation of the relationship is more solid, both parties tend to be a bit less on guard, a little bit less apprehensive, and that can be a good time to open up "relationship talks". its best to start with listening. let your partner state their case, and just listen, and take it in; be receptive. the two of of you have been in this for some months, no? then youre likely in the power struggle phase of a relationship, where partners test each other and figure out how (if possible) they resolve conflict. so its good to let the other person lead. listen carefully to what he says. adapt to it. perhaps at the time, and also perhaps a day or two later, open things back up, and state your case; your needs. the more the two of you are able to do this consistently over time, the better things will be.

and after that because it wasn't going his way, I was met with impatience, and invalidation.

its possible, that unfortunately, this is his style. it may change, it may not. but it wont change with force. its possible that by backing off, he may self soothe and get back to center, and come to you, when hes more receptive.

[secretgirl]

the best approach is to accept that you arent dating a good listener. it may or may not improve.

i have a very, very close friend. when we were younger, he used to be the worst possible person as a shoulder to cry on. hed always say the wrong thing. the worst thing. id get angry and call him on it. it would happen again. eventually, it clicked with me that that just wasnt his strong suit. we had lots of areas of our friendship that i appreciated. he was hilarious. we had a lot of fun together. he just wasnt a very sensitive guy. i started to focus on the positive aspects of our friendship, and if i needed a shoulder to cry on, i went to someone else. as a result, our friendship improved. the funny thing is, years later, he matured, and hes one of the best shoulders to cry on that i know.

this man is your boyfriend and that was my friend. if hed cheated on me, if hed been abusive, things might have been different, but the dynamics and the outcome may be very similar, and the lesson to be learned is accepting people as they are, with their limitations, and from there, things get a lot more workable.

things arent on very healthy ground. in the past week or so, breakups have been threatened, and youve each told each other "fine then see if i care" until you come around. the first step is really to break the cycle of breakup threats; in my personal experience, theyre toxic, and they destroy trust and the foundation of the relationship.

when things are good, when trust exists, when the foundation of the relationship is more solid, both parties tend to be a bit less on guard, a little bit less apprehensive, and that can be a good time to open up "relationship talks". its best to start with listening. let your partner state their case, and just listen, and take it in; be receptive. the two of of you have been in this for some months, no? then youre likely in the power struggle phase of a relationship, where partners test each other and figure out how (if possible) they resolve conflict. so its good to let the other person lead. listen carefully to what he says. adapt to it. perhaps at the time, and also perhaps a day or two later, open things back up, and state your case; your needs. the more the two of you are able to do this consistently over time, the better things will be.

its possible, that unfortunately, this is his style. it may change, it may not. but it wont change with force. its possible that by backing off, he may self soothe and get back to center, and come to you, when hes more receptive.

THANK you OR ... this is some excellent advice and I will go and mull this over... I have A LOT to think about for myself with this... like will I or will I not be able to accpe thtese things about him,?
Yes we've been together 8 months now, so long enough... and we've only ever had a ST last a week when I didn't do the message before... this is the second time ever in our r/s where I didn't come to him... usually I always go to him... that's why I also have to break this cycle if I need it to change, and be consistent... I need to follow my T's advice and stick to my words and prove them through actions. Which I am doing. She said I have to be willing to have the r/s end If I want to enforce such strong boundaries, and I agreed that I'm finally ready to accept that.
I finally also read "walking on eggshells" and that helped me a lot because it sort of instilled a bit of what you just said here: accepting them for who they are.
BUT holding them accountable and responsible for their behavior.

You're right, trust must be first established... and I must figure out a way to diminish this push pull and find other ways of working through our problems without becoming defensive myself or offering ultimatums. I think this period of alone time for the both of us is actually important as it allows me to reflect on my mistakes also.
If he comes around, at least I can try and figure out better ways of approaching it or maybe even just start by LISTENING to him first, as you suggested.

[once removed]

any update? still not speaking?

[secretgirl]

any update? still not speaking?

Oh yes... so I broke the ST this morning... basically asked him what was going on? and if we are officially done because I would like to know where we are at... because I think that;s fair.. and I got met with ANGER asap...

Basically he said that I'm hilarious for sending him those invalidation links and I always told him "I'm sorry you feel that way." (which is UNTRUE because I've only said it in the context of SET statements... like when I'm about to say a TRUTH after the empathy bit... ex: I'm sorry you feel that way, it must be hard for you... BUT ... XYZ happened how can we solve this?"

So again, projecting...
Then I asked him if what he had told me a week prior to that then was false... because I said "ok I'm sorry you think that you don't invalidate me but mainly I'd like to know if the promise you made in my room was true last week when you told me you're never going to leave me again, or you're going to put in effort to get through disagreements no matter what and you won't ever ST me again..."
and he wrote:

"It's fine you don't get what you did and try to flip it around on me AGAIN... it's PLEASE READing hilarious you said you'd maybe like a break so... TAKE IT ALLLLLLL in and give me a shout when you feel like you've had enough time to yourself ... I did say allll those things yes, but they go out the window when your girl tells you they might need a break from me... I'm sorry you feel that it's NEVER you and that YOUR the boss but it's 50/50 not 80/20"

so basically... told me in a polite way that everything he said was full of sh*it... ?
SO I replied telling him I didn't need a break and I never do... I just wanted him there for me as he promised... and I said "I'm sorry I asked and now that you're angry I guess I got my answer to my original question from your responses now... so I'll leave you alone I apologize."

and he wrote saying he's sorry I've dealt with POS guys but he's not one... and I wrote that I don't want to argue further but maybe he needs clarification on the difference between an argument and discussion? and he just said "I love you have a good day."

and I said okay so then is this goodbye? and then he wrote me that I apparently said goodbye last week with me maybe wanting a break or asking about it... and I said ok... and then he proceeded to tell me I already said goodbye and that he doesn't get then why I'm asking... (hostility).

So I said "okay you're right. If you want me to say goodbye then I will ... I apologize for bothering I just wanted to talk to you... but ok." and then he kept circling around about how I never take ownership for anyting? and I said "why can't it ever be about US against the problem... and not ME versus YOU all the time... why can't we come up with a solution?"
Then he said "take your time with your break. But I gave you my heart and hey you throw it away so easy soo..."

and I said "okay I'm sorry then. I guess I'll take that as a goodbye then." and he looped around again (going in circles again) saying how it's a break ... and I said  "No I'm not playing the blame game anymore. I'm ending it and if you want to ever mend this, you can come to me. " then he sent me some other things after which were like silly comments which I ignored and that was that...

I'm just feeling endlessly frustrated like I cannot have ANY sort of discussion with him right now. It's like I put myself out there and TRY, and I keep getting shut down if that makes sense?
This break will be good for me. and If he doesn't come back then that's fine too. I'm sick of having my mind f*ucked with. I try and have a mature adult conversation every time with him and it never happens... all projections, and deflections on his end. Probably a pwbpd thing? (haha).

[once removed]

I always told him "I'm sorry you feel that way." (which is UNTRUE because I've only said it in the context of SET statements... like when I'm about to say a TRUTH after the empathy bit... ex: I'm sorry you feel that way, it must be hard for you... BUT ... XYZ happened how can we solve this?"

quick point: "im sorry you feel that way" is not an empathy statement. its a sympathy statement, and a rather detached one. i make this point because SET can be tricky, and a lot of us fall into the trap of trying to speak with a formula in order to reach someone. it doesnt work, because anyone can see right through it. SET can work great, but it works best in conjunction with sincerity and authenticity; when we talk to the other person in a way that we really speak, not just using a formula on them.

So again, projecting...

projection is not the same thing as hypocrisy.

what we have here is you saying "you are invalidating me and here is a link to how you can treat me better" and him saying "thats bs you do that to me all the time".

its tit for tat, and no, it isnt a constructive response, but this has been part of the cycle between the two of you.

"It's fine you don't get what you did and try to flip it around on me AGAIN... it's PLEASE READing hilarious you said you'd maybe like a break so... TAKE IT ALLLLLLL in and give me a shout when you feel like you've had enough time to yourself ... I did say allll those things yes, but they go out the window when your girl tells you they might need a break from me... I'm sorry you feel that it's NEVER you and that YOUR the boss but it's 50/50 not 80/20"

so basically... told me in a polite way that everything he said was full of sh*it... ?

i think its probably a bit more nuanced than that.

dysfunctional relationships can get to a point where they are all about finger pointing and talking at each other rather than talking to each other or resolving problems. that is where this is.

if you filter out the drama from what he was saying, its clear that he was hurt over your breakup threat, and that was his sticking point. in his hurt, he wants to send a message. "yeah i meant it but then you said you wanted a break".

"I love you have a good day."

and I said okay so then is this goodbye?

i love you have a good day doesnt sound like goodbye  

it may be that he was trying to exit the conversation before it escalated...and he was also trying to send you a message for the breakup threats.

So I said "okay you're right. If you want me to say goodbye then I will .

this is escalating, and a breakup threat.

This break will be good for me. and If he doesn't come back then that's fine too. I'm sick of having my mind PLEASE READed with. I try and have a mature adult conversation every time with him and it never happens... all projections, and deflections on his end. Probably a pwbpd thing? (haha).

i dont think this is a pwbpd thing. as ive said, i think its about how the two of you deal with conflict.

you are somewhat easily prone to feeling invalidated, and when you do, you dig in to make your point (saying it louder), and resort to breakup threats to make your point or get your way. its not constructive.

he is prone to trying to be a "hard ass" and sending a message when he feels hurt. its not constructive.

in order to resolve this, youll need to break the cycle (incidentally, i think reaching out in this case was a good start). things are escalating, and the two of you are becoming more entrenched when it comes to being "right" rather than how to move forward constructively.

thoughts?

[secretgirl]

Hi OR thanks for the reply... I'm glad you clarified a few things on my end...

It helped me a lot actually talking to him last night on the phone and listening to him too but it did take me a lot of convincing to hear me out also... then once we got in the groove of that it worked out much better.
This "break" actually did me good too because most of the things you pointed out also I looked at more objectively... and tried to see HIS pov on a lot of it. 

Definitely not constructive on my end no I think I just get SO frustrated at him NOT listening that I almost feel cornered and pushed into that decision. But yes, ultimately it's my decision... and I always take responsibility for my bit. Always.

I agree... I realized a few things too to break the cycle... the main thing was that he just needs to listen, be there for me when I'm upset/annoyed, hear me out, then just fix it. We discussed that today because we almost got into a fight again because he did something AGAIN which I had mentioned multiple times I do not like or appreciate, and I literally just said "I FEEL frustrated, I just feel like sometimes I'm repeating myself and it's not you... just I feel annoyed right now but I still love you." and then he actually just said sorry and I took it wrong and it ended well because I said I accept his apology ALWAYS. I'm always willing to forgive if he doesn't get defensive to me bringing up something to make me upset.

I realized that's usually the cycle we have... the arguments occur due to his reaction to me bringing up something/talking about my feelings. So he said "ok , so you JUST want me to listen when you're upset?" and I'M like YES please! so hopefully this breaks the cycle... I'll keep you posted on this. But today's got resolved rather quickly just by him staying calm and not reacting out of anger to my upset. Which was great. Thanks OR for keeping it real... and also calling me out too for my half.

[once removed]

I agree... I realized a few things too to break the cycle... the main thing was that he just needs to listen, be there for me when I'm upset/annoyed, hear me out, then just fix it.

is this realistic?

remember, he has his own feelings and perspective.

team effort. things get messy when we expect others to fix things.

"I FEEL frustrated, I just feel like sometimes I'm repeating myself and it's not you... just I feel annoyed right now but I still love you."

this is better. its less accusatory. perhaps most importantly, it sounds like its the way you speak, authentically.

the arguments occur due to his reaction to me bringing up something/talking about my feelings.

sometimes the way we bring up our feelings puts another person on the defensive. sometimes it might be the chicken. sometimes it might be the egg.

[secretgirl]

hmmm... I think I meant more like we need to discuss and fix it without EITHER of us becoming defensive... which he agreed with. Like you said OR, TEAM work hehe.

Yes... that's exactly his and my issue... the WAY I bring up my feelings/ or even purely the fact I bring it up at all... but I'm hoping that since I've now broken the cycle of becoming defensive AFTER bringing something up... it'll continue with him responding BETTER to me bringing it up if that makes sense... like instead of him being like "oh sh*it she's mad or upset so I better protect myself and get on my defense b/c she's either going to leave me or argue" I'm hoping for more a response like: "oh she's sad or angry, maybe I should try and understand why well knowingly that she's not going to leave me either way so she will also hear me out."