We met on the trail again and went for dinner together - his terms of course

[Tsultan]

Hello,  I am not exactly sure where this post belongs so if you feel it needs to be moved please do so. 

My uexBPDbf painted me black about 9 plus mos ago.  His explanation for the break up was because my terms were unacceptable.  I asked for space because he was inferring blame.  Blame is a trigger for me.  My exH used to blame me for a lot of stuff in our marriage.  I took a stand that afternoon and put up a boundary.

So, this afternoon, I will be honest, I saw him walking on the trail because I have radar still out for him   and when I saw him walking I thought it would be a good opportunity to seem him.  So I started walking and we met up and started talking.  I had some great news to share with him about my new job which I started last week.  He started talking to me about his daughter and how they are having a bit of an argument and she is asking for space.  He went into the reasons why her terms were unacceptable to him.  He wants to see her and the grandchildren more and wants to have a more honest r/s with her.  I listened and validated. He then asked to come into my car and we talked some more.  We watched the sunset. Then he suggested we get something to eat for dinner.  I agreed. 

Here's my conflict. What if he calls me again?  Will I have the strength to protect my heart?  I don't want to get hurt again.  He has dragged my heart through the mud.  In and out of my life.  He invited me to his house so we could drive together to the restaurant but then changed his mind and said he had back pain and that we should meet at the restaurant instead.  I think he was keeping me at a distance to be safe.  Probably a good idea for us both.  I love him and I always will.  I somehow have to protect myself in all this and I am not exactly sure how to go about this.  I am writing in advance just IN CASE something should happen and he does call me.

If anyone has any experience they could throw in the mix I would appreciate.  I was just starting to get used to being on my own and in many ways accepting it and enjoying it. But I do know being on my own isn't something I want to do.

Thanks for listening.

Tsultan

[Turkish]

Where do you see this going?  It sounds like you sought him out in a way.  Is it:

"If he does X, I'll do Y and we'll see where it goes."?

Or are you looking for closure with grace?

[Tsultan]

I did seek him out.  I drive by there anyway and really wasn't going to walk but when I saw him I decided to go and got excited to see him.  I am crying as I write this because I know it probably could never work especially when he does not reciprocate.  Again, I am torn and my heart is hurting.  He needs to be there for me in a solid way.  Or I have to accept that he comes and goes as he pleases.  Radical acceptance. Or I don't accept that he comes and goes as he pleases and explain my boundary and let the rest go to God.

It's probably once again like always if he does X, I'll do Y and we will see where it goes.  It's mostly been that way with us.  And right now I'm probably looking into it too much.  Ugh my head is in a tailspin again.  I just don't understand this because all my life with guys I've been clear but with him it's like he has a hook in my heart and it won't go let me go.  I have read all the stuff about how the borderline and the non are probably on different pages blah blah blah.  I'm having a hard time accepting reality at the moment.  And I had no business seeking him out because now look.  I'm hurting again.

[Turkish]

Forgive yourself,  if you feel like that.  Strong bonds leave threads.

I found pictures today on my work computer of me and her vector babies,  and some of the kids when they were babies.  I felt that on some level that I still missed her in my life like that.  I felt ok that it was ok,  even with a twinge of pain. 

What about you? Will you seek a seemingly random run- in again?

[once removed]

stay centered, Tsultan.

this doesnt have to be more than it was. if you want it to be, we can take it one step at a time.

My uexBPDbf painted me black about 9 plus mos ago.  His explanation for the break up was because my terms were unacceptable.  I asked for space because he was inferring blame.  Blame is a trigger for me.  My exH used to blame me for a lot of stuff in our marriage.  I took a stand that afternoon and put up a boundary.

can you give us the backstory here, in as much detail as possible?

[Tsultan]

My exuBPDbf had a habit of running when things got into a conflict.  Sometimes the conflict was just within himself. 

Exhibit A: he painted me black because I watched the Sons of Anarchy.  It's a fantasy show but he said that he couldn't be with someone who watched a show like that.  It's about a motorcycle gang who behaves unethically and the series got pretty graphic and shocking.  That was one of the first few times he left me.  It hit me hard because we were getting closer.  He did all sorts of things like that to push me away. 

Exhibit B:  I wanted to watch a program that I was really interested in.  He said it bothered him that I wanted to watch the program because it was about a high profile celebrity who struggled with alcoholism who wanted to end the stigma.  I am passionate about ending the stigma in mental health.  So, yeah for a celebrity who wants to help with that.  He took me home because he was uncomfortable.  I didn't hear from him for days after.  There was kind of a running joke between me and a close friend that I should pack a bag with all his stuff so he can just grab it a go on his way out, yet one more time.  I lost count how many times he broke up with me.  I did some of that too.

I had no clue what any of this behavior was but I knew I was getting very mixed messages because on the one hand he wanted to be with me but on the other hand he kept leaving.  He had all these other traits too such as impulsivity, dependency on me and others for really simple decisions, not having a strong sense of self, paranoia especially in times of stress, sudden emotional outbursts of anger where he would yell.  He was able to manage his yelling behavior because I would leave and once I even left the r/s because of it. 

So, after reading a ton of material and several books on the subject I found this website.  I like this site especially because it has a wealth of knowledge on the subject, is supportive and positive.  So I started practicing what I learned and things got better between us.  I didn't react as much.  I started to detach in a healthy way so I was able to stop taking most of what he talked about not personal anymore because I knew it was just the disorder talking and not him.  These were small steps granted but no less it was progress.  I still struggled with the feeling of walking on eggshells because I never knew when I could trigger him. 

In hopes of resolving my conflict I would attempt to have a conversation with him about his behavior of breaking up with me so many times.  We were able to joke about it at times but most of the time he would not own his behavior and would even deny that he broke up with me. Therefore, the conflict could never get resolved.  Especially when the person doing the behavior does not "own" the behavior. 

We were enjoying a picnic together at our favorite park on a sunny afternoon when I brought the subject up again.  I think that if you bring a subject up once it's healthy,  If you bring it up twice it starts to become controlling.  Looking back, I can see my part in pushing the subject to resolve the the conflict and my attempts to control.  I wanted to move forward with the r/s but because of this behavior I was not able to.

As we were talking he started to infer that the reason he left the r/s so many times was because of my anger.  There were two triggers there for me.  1. My exH used to tell me I was angry and  2. Blame.  My exH used to blame me for his unhappiness.  So, later that day I asked for space in the r/s.  He was taken back by it even after suggesting to me that if I ever needed space for anything that it would be okay.

We didn't talk for a couple days but then I reached out to him.  I told him I was triggered because he was blaming me for why he leaves.  He was very angry with me and simply told me that my terms were unacceptable and he stopped answering my calls and all texts for several mos.  I was left hanging without closure. That was last May. 

The first time I saw him on the trail was in November and he had news about his Dad being sick.  The 2nd time I saw him on the trail it was in February and he had news that his Dad passed in early January. The third time I saw him earlier this week Wednesday, I had news about my new job. That was when he came into my car and we talked and then he wanted to go out for dinner together after.

He now knows when my walking schedule is.  I sent him about 4 messages last night and then I called him and left a teary message about him not answering my texts or calls but yet he can talk on the trail.  I said it was bulls*t.  I don't usually swear.  I sent him one today telling him I was going to walk at 4:15. I heard nothing back but there he was today on the trail at 4:15.  We talked and he agreed to take the block off, that is if I was really blocked.  I called him out on it in one of my texts to him last night and said I know I'm not blocked.  I didn't tell him this but I can tell by the delivered messages response.  I know his patterns when he turns his phone on airplane mode during meetings and usually at 10:00 each night. 

We were able to define a boundary limit for our r/s today.  We will be walking together on the trail if we see each other. A hug will be okay.  Dinners together or anything else will only stir things up again.  He shared with me that after seeing me on Wednesday that he couldn't sleep well that night and the next day he was depressed.  I did not sleep well either Wednesday night but it felt really good to see him.  He shared that his recovery comes first, but that you never know what HP will do but being in a r/s is a struggle for him and he feels like he might drink and he even shared with me that he was suicidal at one point and reached out to the suicidal hotline one night last February.  I was not aware of this.  He said he never meant to hurt me or does not ever mean to hurt me in the future.  As he was talking to me about the high conflict times in our r/s he specifically told me it was not to put any blame on me.  I said I respected that his recovery should ultimately come first and that I support that.  He said I could call him if I needed him in an emergency situation. 

So that's what happened and I am processing it all now.  I have a lot of respect for how he handled our the conversation today.  I have feelings of grief that it can't be what I want it to be because of the disorder.  I have feelings of closure I think? At the same time the comment about you never know what HP wants is hopeful but realistic.  Honestly, it will take a miracle.  And I do believe in miracles.  I know there are success stories here and that brings hope but I know this r/s would be a long upward climb.

I'll probably seek a random run in again.  Heck I even look at the snow prints to see if those were his foot prints.  Who does that?  For now, I am really happy that we defined our r/s.  Maybe I can finally move on or at least accept what is and be open to a miracle.

Thanks guys.  Thanks for listening.  I'll probably re-read this later at some point and see typos and think "How the heck didn't I see that one!"

Goodnight.  I'm going to rest somewhat peacefully I think.   

Tsultan
 

[Cat Familiar]

Hi Tsultan,
I'm new to your story, so to get up to speed, I wanted to bullet point some themes I saw in your account. Perhaps you can let me know if I'm on the right track here.

* He judged you for your interest in entertainment with themes that bothered him.
* When he felt uncomfortable, his response was to leave and not communicate with you for a while.
* He would have outbursts of anger and yell, but managed to control that because you'd leave.
* You were unable to resolve the situation of him breaking up with you frequently because he wouldn't take responsibility for his behavior.
* He blamed you for being angry.
* He now knows your walking schedule and has arranged to run into you.
* You both have set parameters around how much you will interact and are limiting it to talking on the trail.
* You are feeling grief, hope for a miracle, and some feelings of closure.

Is this about right?

Cat

[Tsultan]

Hi Cat Familiar,  Thank you for mirroring my thoughts correctly.  It helps.

Although I wrote "we" were able to agree to the terms, it was him that set the terms of our r/s during our discussion.  He tells me that although he misses me and it's hard for him as well, his recovery must come first before any r/s.  The r/s is causing him to want to drink again and he said at one time it made him suicidal.  I am supporting his decision to put his recovery first although I am still struggling with letting him go. 

In talking with him these past few times it sounds like he is still doing what he always does in all his r/s's which is to become very rigid about the terms. If x doesn't do the y that he wants them to do then he exits stage left. He is doing that with his D36 right now, and he did that with his father the entire time I knew him.  So the theme is not with only me but others.  Thank God I can see that now.  He says on the one hand that although he is alone and has no family (his choice with his siblings), both his parents have passed and currently is having problems with his D36 again, he says he has a good life.  I asked him if not having any r/s's will continue to allow him to have a good life. He said no. I asked b/c I needed to understand if perhaps he is a hermit borderline.

When I met him he was in not on speaking terms with his D36.  She would not respond to any of his emails, phone calls or texts.  He kept reaching out to her and the grandkids, sending them valentines day cards, birthday cards, christmas gifts and one day she finally agreed to let him back into her life.  It was the longest period of separation they have ever had.  It lasted about 2.75 years.  She has 2 children GS9 and GD6.  I was starting to form a r/s with her and the grandchildren.  She is a beautiful young woman and a loving mother and wife.  She supported him through the recent death of his Dad.  It should have been me but he would not accept my help let alone answer any of my texts, yet complained that he couldn't turn to me for support during his father's illness.

So, if he is still doing the exit stage left behavior, nothing is going to change between us. 

I have been thinking and processing this off and on today and although it's NOT what I hoped it to be and painful, it's really the best thing for us both.  Limit our time to the trail and any emergencies.  Nothing more.  He doesn't sound willing to change anything at this point.  He may never change so yes, I am hoping for a miracle.

[Cat Familiar]

I would guess that his need to control things has been a long-term issue. And his "my way or the highway" attitude is unlikely to change at this point. How did you deal with it when you were in a relationship?

[Tsultan]

Cat Familiar, 

It was hard for me.  It hurt.  I didn't deal with to well.  It's a trigger for me.  I tried to make him see that it hurt me and asked him to stop "abandoning" me but clearly he was not willing to accept responsibility for his actions. 

It seems to be some of both my way or the highway, and some of what as he explained to me during our last discussion, is that he will not be around people where there is drama as he calls it, conflict as I see it (yet most of the time it's either in his head or he causes it).

He was lonely around super bowl Sunday which was about a week after his Dad passed.  He was expecting his D36 to call him and ask him to hang out for the day.  When she said that they were busy it sounds like he took it personal. (He's probably feeling abandoned).  He said that week of the super bowl his D34 had a few days off and it didn't sound to him like they were busy.  So in his mind he feels that she is not being honest with him.  He mentioned that he wants his D36 to be honest with him and he feels she is not which is another thing that bothers him. I am not sure specifically how the conversation with his D36 went but he said that when they tried to talk about it, it turned into a confrontation. The next time when he asked to come for a visit with D36 she said that she was feeling uncomfortable being around him and she declined a visit. Now he is not sure how long it will be before they talk again.

My triggers of abandonment come from growing up in an alcoholic home.  Both parents drank alcoholically.  My Father died an active Alcoholic.  After learning about BPD I think it's possible my Mom had BPD on the scale somewhere not extreme but definitely mild to moderate.  My sister was dx with BPD in her 30's.  She has had gone through intense therapy for that.  She's manages her symptoms.  But because of her BPD we keep our distance.

I go to Al-Anon meetings to help me recover. There are adult children meetings.  This is where I met my exBPDbf.  And an entire new awareness opened up for me.   

I think,  I am hoping this time after having some clear concrete r/s expectations that I will be able to respect his parameters.  I have been texting and calling throughout the r/s ending about 10 mos ago.  As I said they have been going unanswered for the most part.  He did respond to one text I think.  He told me at the beginning of the r/s that if I kept "knocking at the door" that "he will be standing at the stoop".  So it was hard for me to not be loyal to him saying that.

I'm trying to remind myself that he won't change his behavior so stop playing with the fire if you don't get want to get burned but I miss him.  He can be so insightful, intelligent, funny, and he does have a good heart.  We connected right away and probably for so many complicated reasons.  My background, his background were very similar.  We also had chemistry. 

[Cat Familiar]

It seems that there is a lot of family of origin issues that he triggers for you. And you both have abandonment issues, but his stems from his attachment to his daughter. Perhaps you didn't give him the opportunity to miss you after the relationship ended.

You appreciate his positive qualities, but it sounds like you are wondering if that's enough to mitigate the pain you might feel if you got back together with him?

[Tsultan]

I probably didn't give him an opportunity to miss me. Maybe this time it will be different.   I think knowing the parameters will help me. It was hard ending things without any closure or discussion.  It left me hanging and frustrated and continually wondering what exactly happened.  He reassured me that it is not easy for him either. I guess I find some comfort in that. 

I have read other members post that their BPD significant other will leave but they often come back.  They seem to be okay with the behavior.  I would be willing to see if I can accept his behavior.  I feel like I am becoming more and more secure.  Maybe it's because I have been on my own now for awhile and I haven't died yet.   

I really appreciate you being here for me through this.

[Cat Familiar]

I think we often get ourselves upset thinking our relationship should conform to a certain ideal. On one hand, we can't not really think that way because we've been indoctrinated since childhood with the happily ever after concept. As we get older, popular culture continues this way of thinking and we measure our relationship experience against the "ideal" and of course it never holds up to "perfection".

Ultimately if whatever presents itself to you is satisfying enough, then that's good. If not, then you can decide to make a change. It's all up to you.