Self care is starting now

[AskingWhy]

I detailed on another thread just how much a skin flint with me my uBPD is, at least for me.

He is lavish with his three adult children and spends thousands of dollars on gifts.  He spoiled them as young children and they are now entitled adults:  "just because" skis for one of them, designer clothes, a furnished apartment and in patient rehab.  (The S is a college drop out and addicted to drugs.  H set him up in an apartment with furniture and an entertainment system only to discover months later the S quit the lease, sold the furniture and electronics, and was back out on the street.)  He is particularly enmeshed with the Ds whom he treats like mistresses, giving them pet names, and playfully pinching and tickling them like lovers.

H is a professional with very good standing in his field.  His income is very comfortable; I am retired but work from home in a small part time business.  H continually orders things for himself that arrive at the door.  As I am at home, H asks me, "Can you make sure a parcel arrives?"  (He never uses endearments with me and yet calls his Ds all manner of sappy addresses.  Electra complex on steroids.)  It's on parcel after another.  Things for his brand new motorcycle, accessories for his new sports care, golf equipment and on and on.  

You know about the farce of anniversary gifts H gave me while buying his D skis, and then went cheap on anniversary gift while paying for an elegant evening wedding for the other D, then rehab for his son and a new expensive phone for his son (while homeless, no less.)

What H should have done was buy me a nice ring for our twentieth anniversary.  He knows I wanted one, and this is the NPD side of BPD. When an NPD knows what you want for a gift, to be sadistic, the person will get you anything except what you want the most.  They exult in the disappointment you feel when the gift is not what you want.  

I am insulted. A wonderful extravagant dia mond ring would warm my heart and, in some ways, change the way I view the R/S.  It would take my breath away.  I see these online stores selling nice rings with reviews about fiances and husbands buying rings for their women, and how utterly pleased the women are.  Inside, I am hurt and angry that H is so cheap while his children are showered with gifts.

H bought me a trinket of a ring for one anniversary and it was an insult to look at:  cheap and poor quality.  H saw my disappointment, and flew into a rage, saying he will never buy me another piece of fine jewelery.  He says I am never happy with what he gets me.  (He's right.  He's a cheap skate and I am not happy.)  He also rages that he takes me on vacations and I am never happy.  These "vacations" and not really pleasure trips but merely trips to visit one D and the grandchildren.  I am getting to the point where I won't want to accompany H because I travel thousands of miles only to get ignored by my own H while he exults in the company of his D.  

I am so close to buying my own diamond ring.  I am browsing online companies and stopping to browse at jewellery stores in malls.  I am heartsick and angry at how cheap and cruel H is.   In my mind, I can't wait to see H's face when he sees a sparkler on my hand that he did not buy.  It's like me saying, "You cheap S O B.  I got sick of waiting while every one gets showered with gifts."

[Notwendy]

I think you should buy what you want- but not look for a specific reaction from him. He may actually be furious. Randi Krieger posted something a while back about covert or vulnerable narcissism. IMHO, there is much overlap between the PD's and each has a spectrum so some BPD's could also have NPD traits. Pw covert traits need to feel special and may do passive aggressive things to feel that way.

When you H spends lavishly on himself and not you, he makes himself "special".  People with PD's have poor boundaries and see their children as extensions of themselves. The lavish spending on his children could be part of this.

But to be "special" someone has to be "not special". So go make yourself special! You are to you, but he might not like it, but that's his problem to deal with.

It took me a while to get to this point- where I take care of myself. Not so much about jewelry- I like it, but it's not something I long for. My H would also spend a lot on himself and not consider me. It used to bother me a lot, but now I don't wait  for him to bestow "equality" on me.

One thing I did accept is that what we want may not be equal. He seems to want some things more than I do, but I enjoy other things. Spending time with my kids is one of them and so, I might do something with them while he may want to buy something. But when I am doing something I value- I don't feel resentful of him. We are different people, and it's OK.

There's a trip I want to take one day and I asked my H "do you think we could go there one day". His response "maybe". I learned long ago that he just can't say "yes" right away to something that would make me happy. He just won't do it. That used to hurt, but sometimes eventually he will come around- on his own control.

At one time, I would have felt hurt by this response ( the trip would not be unaffordable). I didn't feel hurt. I know I can go on my own, and if I want to, I can plan to do it. I don't need him to bestow this on me.

Years ago, I did want an anniversary ring. I showed him what kind I wanted. Anniversary, birthday, no ring. I cried about it. It wasn't lavish - I knew it was affordable. Then, one day he gave it to me. I asked " why now?" and he said he didn't want to give it to me when I expected it.

So, you know what? To heck with that. If I ask and he says no, or maybe, I can also do it myself, It's not all about material things.  If I want to do something and he doesn't- well I can do it.

I have my responsibilities too- the house, the kids when they are home, my job, but there's room for self care. It doesn't need to be something big. Take a walk, watch something fun on TV, a movie. If you want that ring- go for it. But also little things too.

[Baglady]

Hi Askingwhy,

Hugs to you  

As the recipient of a crappy, cheap $300 wedding ring (bought from an estate sale, non-refundable, actually dented and seemly warm from the just deceased fingers of an 80+ lady - no less!) I get the value that you place on this ring.  I truly do. During my 21 year marriage, I longed so much to get the ring of my dreams.   I'm not materialistic in the slightest (my clothes and furnishings are mostly second-hand and I like it that way) but there was just something about a really nice diamond ring that really, really got to me.  I think it was the fantasy that I wanted - the ring was a metaphor for all that I so, so wanted in my marriage but did not get - the honest love of a good, kind emotionally intelligent partner who met me half-way in terms of contributing to our marriage and someone I could enjoy growing old with.  Ironically, the ring I actually received instead was a huge red flag about my exBPDh that I should have heeded (remember the old adage - if someone shows you who they are believe them!).

I'm trying to be kind here but I think that your diamond ring is also a metaphor for all that you want from this marriage but aren't getting.  I also think that possibly your fixation on this ring is a distraction from the real issues.  You are very unhappy with your H's treatment of you (and you absolutely have every right to be!) but purchasing a ring will not fix this essential fact.  Sure, it will help for a while and if viewed as self-care, why not?  I'm not sure that your rationale for purchasing it is really self-care though.  Wanting to see your H's reaction seems to be more of a motivating factor?  What is purchasing this ring really all about?  It seems that you are placing a high value on an object to meet your needs in the place of your H?

I so want to be kind here and I really hope you don't take my message the wrong way.  There is nothing wrong about doing something nice for yourself particularly when your H. is not meeting your needs.  I'd just caution you about thinking that this ring will fix anything in your relationship that needs mending.

Love and hugs  
Warmly,
B

[Cat Familiar]

Notwendy and Baglady have shared words of wisdom and I’ll add my agreement that if you want a nice ring, go get it. Today. Why wait?

I’m not a big fan of jewelry, but my expensive tastes are about property improvement on the ranch. My husband readily buys expensive stuff for himself and gives me nice gifts, but gets seriously uptight when it comes to maintenance and improvement of our property.

I do as much handy work as I can, but there are things beyond my paygrade that need to be done by contractors or are way too physically demanding for someone who weighs 115 pounds.

After years of hinting and hoping, last year I spent much of my remaining assets to build a riding arena, without asking my husband for assistance. (He inherited lots of money. I didn’t.)

I’m really glad I did that, and he even helped with the cost, once it got underway. It was a big step for me to just do what I wanted and now I wonder what took me so long to make that decision.

Life is short, even if you live to 100. If you want a ring, just do it!  

[AskingWhy]

Notwendy, Baglady and Cat, thank you for the thoughtful and supportive replies.

@Notwendy, you are so correct about boundaries and pwBPD seeing their children as extensions of themselves.  When one his his Ds got into minor trouble with the law, or the one who was substance abusing (the one who made the suicide attempt), or the son's chronic drug abuse and homelessness, there was always some way to explain away the poor life choices.  It was invariably the children's mother, his X W who is uNPD.  

And I totally agree that in order to be "special," that means someone or others must be "not special."  I agree by H not doing what will make me happy, and thereby maintaining control, is very passive aggressive.

When I banged my head cleaning under a table, and my scalp was bleeding from a cut, all H could say, shouting from his den where he was on his computer, "Da*nit, just put some ice on it, for Heaven's sake!" (He did not come to my aid and later complained about the bloodied paper towels in the kitchen as I rummaged in the refrigerator for some ice.)  "What the H*ll is all this mess? is all he could say.  When his D was college age and tripped on the patio, hurting her ankle (she bawled like a toddler), he ran to her side, had her sit down, rubbing the ankle and cooing, "There, there, honey!  Let's get some ice on this," and helping her into the kitchen.

In the Eggshells book, Randi Kreger said that the more functional a pwBPD is, the more likely he is to be NPD.  That is certainly the case with my H, who has a successful job with high responsibility.  (H is very conscientious in his job where he is well respected by his boss, his peers and his clients.)

My way of self care is the jewellery.  I suppose there are other things, but H knows this would mean so much for me, and therefore withholds it from me.  He can well afford this as he once put a $10,000 down payment on a new car for one of his Ds when she graduated from college and was taking a new job, and bought a pair of $500 skis for one D as a "just because" gift.  I keep hoping, like a fool, that one of those parcels that gets delivered will be the ring I want so much.  

I suspect the upcoming trip to his grandchildren and their mother will mean no money for the ring, and H will criticise that at least he is taking me on a "vacation."  (Mind you, not to Europe or the Bahamas.)

@Baglady, thank you for speaking directly to why BPD men can be so cheap and the hugs.  It's all about them and their children.  Anything my H gives to me seems like an afterthought.  I am his wife whom he takes for granted (as his own uNPD F did his M), who will always be there, to whom he does not have to suck up to in order to get approval as he does with his adult children.  His children still emotionally blackmail him for gifts as they did when they were teenagers and living with their uNPD M, the X W.

I agree the ring is a metaphor for what I really want from the R/S.  My T agreed on this.  She said it's symbolic of the marriage and the value he places in it.  Hoping H could get the clue, this past Valentine's Day, I gave a nice wireless headset to H as a gift (the famous ones) and a designer sportcoat.  What did I get?  A bouquet of flowers, two bags of chocolates and a card.   I did the same thing last year, and now I get the message.  No more nice gifts for H.  Just a card and a small, inexpensive gift, like a music CD or t-shirt.

As for buying the ring myself, I know H will be angry because I took some of his control away (his withholding the ring) or that I spent a lot of money when he thinks I don't deserve it.  (Then again he loves it when his SILs buy things for his Ds.  One SIL bought his D a huge engagement ring, and is now buying a new SUV for the young woman who is a stay at home mother.)  Then again, he can rage and say, "Well, I don't have to get you one now!"  Possibly addressing with the "C-word" or the "B-word."  I have several nice rings from my mothers estate, and H rages, "You have enough jewellery!"  But those were purchased by my father for my mother.  H does not seem to understand this.

Deep down inside, H is deeply ashamed at how his uBPD F treated his mother, and angry at his F for this.  She was in her 80s when she died, and had only a plain gold wedding ring to her name.  And yet in all those decades of marriage, FIL had money for golf, hunting and sports equipment and a boat.  As with H, FIL's "vacations" to his wife were hunting trips where he "let" her clean the game and cook it for him.

When H and I first married, he love bombed me.  As time went on, he started to devalue me and the gifts got less and less grand and with less thoughts put into them.  Gifts to his children, as they grew (and are now adults), are getting more and more expensive (several rounds of rehab, trips around the world, cars, designer clothes, electronics and the latest cell phones, things for the grandchildren, etc.)

@Cat, each of us have several things we regard as special.  Of those things, the nice jewellery is my special thing.  For you, the arena is your special thing.  

I am pondering what to do about ordering the jewellery, or getting myself something equally nice.  Now what to get!  As long as it's a way of treating myself because my H won't.  I know fully my H cannot see outside of himself and his children.

 

  

[AskingWhy]

I thought this article on NPDs and gift giving was relevant.  I saw my own H in this article!

https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/here-there-and-everywhere/201612/12-pitfalls-gift-giving-narcissist

As an aside, H never let me see the receipt for the cheap ring he got me, the one in which he claimed he spent half of his pay check on!  It's probably a lie as the main stone is of very poor quality, and the decorative stones are mere diamond chips.

[Notwendy]

That article describes my mother ( she is BPD with NPD traits).

I've cried over her insensitivity with gifts. It's best to not take it personally. It clearly reflects her own issues.

Go get yourself something nice... decisions.. decisions. 

[GaGrl]

What you are talking about doing is the tradition of the "right-hand ring."  It is a celebration of you, of a special achievement or simply of independence and achievement - - or of whatever you want it to symbolize for YOU!

So for whatever symbol it means to you...go ahead and do it.

However, if every time you look at the ring, you experience negative emotions (resentment, pay-back...), it won't be a positive gift to yourself.

[AskingWhy]

Thank you, Notwendy and Gagrl, for the replies.

I am cooling my impulse to buy the ring now.      This does not mean I won't in the future, but the impulse is gone.  I thought about what I was trying accomplish by such a purchase, and I backed off for now.

I still do not think, though, that I am willing to give H a free pass on this.  He spends up to thousands a month on his toys and hobbies.  And nothing for me.  Not even flowers--unless there is an occasion. 

[Notwendy]

Maybe start your own savings account- put a little in each month. Then when you see something you want, you can get it. It may not be an item but an experience- a trip to see friends or family, tickets to a show. Something you want to do while your H is off doing his own thing. It doesn't look like he's going to change - to begin to get things for you- so you get them!

[Cat Familiar]

I like the idea of a savings account for things you want. Another strategy that I'm doing which has virtually eliminated resistance from my husband is not asking for agreement or approval. (This may be irrelevant to your relationship.)

I just initiate now, without asking or notifying him. "The plumber is coming on Thursday. Does anything in your studio need to be repaired?"

Before I would say, "I think we should call the plumber to fix that faucet in the laundry room. I took it apart and I slowed down the drip, but I couldn't get it to stop dripping because I wasn't sure if the cartridge was defective because there also seemed to be a missing washer..."

Too much information. He would start getting irritated, partly because it was something he didn't know anything about.

Now I just make a list of all the issues around the property that I don't want to fix and then call the plumber.

It's different with you hoping that your husband will buy you a nice gift of jewelry. The similarity involves getting him on the same page with you to understand that you want something and to comply. I like cutting out the "middleman" and just making it happen.   

[AskingWhy]

I just found out that H must have spent about $1000 on things for his car, motorcycle and golf hobby in the last few weeks.  He is on a business trip and out of town for the week.

Those packages that keep appearing are not for me, needless to say. I have to sign for them, though.  I have this silly fantasy of his ordering something for me that will appear while he is away to totally take my breath away.  That is a pipe dream.  I have, in the past, walked out to the mail box, thinking, not seriously, "Just maybe..." with my heart skipping a beat, only to see just mail, bills and things for H.

It looks like I need to do some shopping for myself this weekend!  At the very least narrow down what I want.

[Cat Familiar]

Yes. Go to the jewelry store and try on things you like.

I worked in a jewelry store when I was in college and one of the perks was that they encouraged us to wear whatever jewelry we wanted while at work. People would come in and try things on and then return on a regular basis to "visit" their selection and see if they still wanted it.

I discovered that many things I thought I liked lost my interest after a while, but I still have a necklace I bought there, with two small opals and two very small diamonds that I think is beautiful.

[Notwendy]

Don't hold your breath that one of those packages is for you.

I don't think about jewelry much, it's not a big want on my list, but if I go in a jewelry shop to get something repaired, or resized and start trying on things...ooh I can get tempted as they are so pretty.

I chose to reset a ring on my own. It needed a new setting. My H was insulted at first, but then went along with it. I couldn't wear the ring in the setting it was in. It had to be changed.

Just do it!

[Enabler]

Just lobbing this in...

If you and hubby are marooned on a desert island together, would you still care about the diamond ring and other stuff he hadn't bought you?

Is this all a relative game, you vs the kids?

Do you believe that these items will 'make' you happy?

This talk of material things, the comparisons between his kids and you, it's not about the things is it, it's about where you are in the priority list. From what you have written it goes Him, The Kids, The Dog and then you. I guess you'd like to be much much higher up that hierarchy. I'm going to be a bit brutal but the way you express your frustrations comes across as being money grabbing and materialistic, and I'm not sure that's the case... you just want to be acknowledged and significant in some way.

Do you know how he conceptualises the things that he buys? Are they NEEDS to him rather than WANTS? I struggle with my W's classification of purchases, she NEEDS everything (likely because of her emotional fires needing quenching).

Enabler

[GaGrl]

Important, large purchases require thought -- not good for impulse buys.

My weakness (I should call it passion) is art.  In the 1980s, I was just beginning to make a decent salary, with some discretionary spending money. I saw a wonderful limited edition lithograph that "spoke" to me, but it was quite expensive and not something I could immediately afford.

I went back and visited that lithograph for six months before I bought it!

[Notwendy]

Enabler - this is a good question but the difference is whose paycheck is it.

My BPD mother actually put the family in debt due to her wants which were emotionally needs to her. Yet, she didn't earn a cent. My father was the wage earner and agreed to this.

My H buys things he doesn't need. I have experienced the UPS delivery man visiting the house several times a day with yet another package for my H.

In his mind, he has had two accounts. Him and "me and the kids" . Since "me and the kids" exceeds his pile, he sometimes feels resentful. Yet ,part of that pile is things like clothing for them, school expenses, tuition. It isn't all for me, but emotionally he's expressed that is feels that way to him.

Fortunately my H is also invested in the kids and does not spend so much that we don't have money for their needs. He's even come to the realization of how his mindset has caused hurt feelings in the marriage, but it's been a long time to get to this point. However, it does not bother him at all to have more things and more expensive things than I do- and he does. I think it in some way makes things feel "fair" to him. I work too but have way less earning power, and also was a stay at home mom for a while. I am grateful for his support but he has used it to justify his spending and not consulting me for major purchases for him. I would not ever do that to him- make a huge purchase without considering him. I've seen how hurtful that can be to a spouse. It didn't bother him a bit, he was fine with it.

Yet, he's the one who has the paycheck and if he chooses to buy something, I have no say in it because he sees it as "his " money that he earned. I have spoken up about the shopping and his reply is that he spends more on "me and the kids" than he does on him ,so I have no say. There is no arguing a mindset that things are not fair to him.

Asking Why has little say in what her H does with the paycheck he has in his hands.

I wanted "teamwork" when it came to expenses. I had hoped we would discuss major purchases together. Just like Asking Why said she hoped she'd be included in one of the packages- it isn't about the object, it's about the spouse saying " we are a team". "The money we have is for both of us" and "I value you".

I also panicked at the spending because it triggered fears of my own childhood when Dad was in debt and Mom had designer clothing.

It's not the material item but the relationship of teamwork that I crave. I suspect that Asking Why wants this too. I have also tried going without something I wanted while my H spends. This is reminiscent of my childhood when we compensated for my mother's spending. I was packing my father's clothes for his stay at assisted living at the end of his life. All he had were some worn out shirts that other people bought for him, mostly shirts I had bought for him- and some pants he bought at a bargain store. . All this time my mother was out buying designer clothing, she didn't even pick up a shirt for him.

I say, don't wait for your H to buy you something. Go buy what you want if you can afford it. It might not make you entirely happy but neither will not buying it. So have a little pleasure if you can.

[Enabler]

OR... go out and get a job, do none of the household chores you didn't get paid for and look blankly at him when he asks where his dinner is.

Ironically I think this is what my W has done, although she missed the point that when I asked her to stop spending money because we were spending more than my income... I WASN'T SPENDING ANY MONEY AT ALL.

[Red5]

… I have a really bad "e-bay" habit… very old, vintage model airplanes, ancient squadron patches, "aviation stuff"… "antique Marine Corps collectables"... mostly just junk to anyone else but me … I also collect "flight helmets" (strange ?)… and the era appropriate oxygen mask for the helmet… I have them going back as far as the very first "fast jet" helmets, 1950's… to current Gentex "topex/edge" issue… mostly Navy, and Marine Corps issue's, fast jets… drives wife up the wall...

My wife, is into Native American Indian motif… so I am always on the lookout for these types of things for her… she also loves jewelry… I've bought her many nice item over the years, before we separated… her birthday is in May… and I plan to get her something nice, even though ____ .

AskingWhy, I say!… go and buy what makes you happy : )

Maybe H will "get a clue" 

Kind Regards, Red5

[AskingWhy]

Thank you all for your input.  

@Enabler:  I appreciate your input, but I am not money grabbing and materialistic.  I have my own job and my own income.  I think you are projecting the way your wife spends onto me.  My T and I already discussed the ring not as an object but as a symbol for what is missing in the marriage.  It's not the object as much as the symbolism behind it, namely a husband's desire to utterly delight his wife with an unexpectedly extravagant gift. I know he is capable of doing this because he does it with his adult children.  

Each person projects what he wants in a relationship onto other things.  For my H, he grew up in poverty because his uNPD F spent money on himself and very little for the children and his wife.  I "know" why H is so stingy--because his F was stingy.  You'd think he would wish not be like his F (of whom H is vaguely aware of as NPD) and want to spoil his W now and then, but he is being just as stingy as his own F.  His F gave his own M very, very little.  As a matter of fact, she work outside the home so her H could have the cars, green fees, sports equipment and such.  And about being on a desert island, well, we aren't.  Some people like vacations, some like gifts, some like "quality time."  

@Gagrl:  I know you understand just having something that grabs you attention!  Such things are a joy to have and behold.  Your print was to you what the ring is to me.

@Notwendy:  My H has a truly BPD mindset about financial accounts:  his and ours, meaning, "my money is mine, and your money is mine."  I made my own money and still do.  About a year into the marriage, we had a joint account.  I bought a nice cocktail dress for myself and modeled it for H, hoping to delight him.  His first comment was, "How much did that cost me?"  I wanted to be attractive for my new husband and that was all he could say.  No saying, "I can't wait to take you out on the town in that!"  No saying, "You look lovely!"  It was very hurtful. I was crushed.  That was it. I immediately went and opened up my own accounts so I had my own separate money from my job.  I think it was the best thing I ever did to protect myself.  I could easily see H using "our" money to be lavish with his children and as they grew into adults.

@Red5:  I know you must have a passion for militaria like old 02 masks, k bars and patches!  As for the ring, I am glad you are recommending I buy it.  You understand.  Just like the artwork, it's something I have had my eye on for some time.  

As for H "getting it," he has not and I don't think he will.  Like the child BPD that he is, it's all about him.  No empathy means not understanding that others deserve nice things; his children are extensions of himself, so spoiling them is spoiling himself.  (It's also the lingering guilt he feels for the divorce when his uNPD X W had an affair and then left to marry the lover.)  For two successive Valentine's Days, I bought him some rather nice things.  This year I bought him the beats headset and a fine sport coat.  From him, I got two bags of candy, a card and a bouquet of flowers.  Do the numbers crunching on that.   After this, no more. I have learned my lesson. Too many times he has disappointed me, and I used to think, "Maybe this time..." so it's time to think again about the jewellery.  



 



  

[Enabler]

@Enabler:  I appreciate your input, but I am not money grabbing and materialistic.  I have my own job and my own income.  I think you are projecting the way your wife spends onto me.  My T and I already discussed the ring not as an object but as a symbol for what is missing in the marriage.  It's not the object as much as the symbolism behind it, namely a husband's desire to utterly delight his wife with an unexpectedly extravagant gift. I know he is capable of doing this because he does it with his adult children.  

Morning AskingWhy,

Running the risk of JADEing my behind off, I don't believe I said that you were, money grabbing and materialistic, I said " the way you express your frustrations comes across as being money grabbing and materialistic, and I'm not sure that's the case". Maybe I see gifts in a different way to you but I don't quantify the value of a gift by it's economic value. I don't know, here's an example, if I spent 6 months hand crafting a jewellery box out of reclaimed wood from our favourite beach, would it be more or less 'valuable' as a gift than a box bought from Tiffany's on the way home from work the night before because I'd forgotten?

Also, and I don't know if this is just me or whether I speak for other blokes... a gift which is demanded is not a gift. It's totally meaningless. All it does is prove to the receiver that the giver appeases the receivers demands and the receiver has control over the giver. Giving someone a gift they have connected non-receipt to an emotional penalty is no better than a payment. A comparable example is when those people come round tables at tacky holiday resorts selling single red roses. Buying a rose from one of these dudes shows the recipient absolutely nothing, it's insulting if you ask me, it's utterly shallow. If I wanted to buy my W a rose, I would have done that. Like a confession after torture.

After the birth of our 2nd child a few friends and family ladies had been bought full eternity rings... you know, whole ring of diamonds. At the time we were looking to move house (her request) into our 'forever house'. Anyway, the long and short of it was that my W decided she also wanted a full eternity ring (about £3.5k worth of rock and platinum in 2010). We had the money but given the desire to move I thought that it wasn't the time and we should be putting as much money as possible into the move. Well, I had everything thrown at me from "I deserve it for providing you with a child and destroying my body", "you obviously don't love me", "everyone else has one" etc etc etc. I wanted to buy her a full eternity ring, I completely wanted to buy it for her... in fact there were many many many things I wanted buy her... until she started demanding it. I bought it for her... She wanted me to buy her this ring as an expression of my eternal love for her and gratitude for her providing me with our first daughter, she wanted it to mean that, and I wanted it to mean that... but since she'd demanded it, emotionally blackmailed me into buying it for her, it really really didn't mean anything. In fact I'd go so far to say that I resented the ring, it made me feel bitter about it, made me think about the lack of reciprocal 'expressions of love' coming the other way... Why didn't I get an engagement ring or engagement watch? Where's my expensive gift for going out every day and providing her with a great home and financial security? Where was my 'thing' that said "YOU ARE F'ING IMPORTANT TO ME AND I TOTALLY APPRECIATE EVERYTHING YOU DO FOR ME... OTHER WOMEN STAY AWAY FROM HIM, HE'S TAKEN... BY ME!"? 

Defining how someone is to show you love is very very shaky ground. Can you think of other ways that he shows you his love, or did at other times in the relationship? I show my wife that I love her in so many ways that she has absolutely no idea about. 1,000 acts of service that she likely doesn't notice. 1,000's of time where I could have put myself in compromising positions with other women... but didn't. The financial security I provide her. I know plenty of men who shower their wives with gifts but run around like alley cats when their wives are not looking. Defining how someone show's you they don't love you is arguably even shakier.

Maybe your H doesn't love you... but I'd argue he's even less likely to love you if you tell him how he's supposed to express his love towards you... or maybe he does love you and shows you in his way.

Enabler

[GaGrl]

The Five Love Languages book was an six-month to me and to several friends of mine -- it made for some interesting conversations.

My DH and I share physical touch as a love language -- it is our primary connection.  DH expresses love by acts of service -- to me and to his other family members and to the community. He receives love by expressions of gratitude, so I need to remember to say the things to him that show how much it means to me. I express love by the giving of gifts -- DH grew up in a financially challenged family, so he has had to adjust to the gift-receiving. I also like receiving gifts, and DH does that very well (but not often or over the top). We are well-defined now and have everything we could ever need, so our agreement is to indulge in "experiences" more than items.

I think a conversation around expressions of love makes for a great marital discussion.

[Enabler]

Excellent book, as is 'Love languages of your kids'.

I give love with 'Acts of service' and I receive love with 'Words of affirmation' coupled with 'Touch'.

'Gifts' do very little for me and 'Quality time' do very little for me.

Enabler

[Red5]

Back to the future, 2008… when uBPDw and I were dating, about a year in, and after the first Christmas debacle (gift giving fail)… I bought her some very nice earrings, "blue stones", & diamonds, layed in gold, for her birthday, our second year together… cost me about eight Benjamin Franklin's… I put the purchase on my credit card… oh' yeah, "Red5 do good"

So, we had a date, and I figured everything was a-ok… uh' no… there was some other issue, "parallel projection"… I was blindsided, a torpedo in the dark, under the waterline… no warning… (way before BPD epiphany)… and there was a disagreement (JADE), and then a subsequent fight (what the heck!), and the usual (extinction burst, devalue, discard), "don't call me anymore"… "I'm done"… so I followed orders, tucked my tail hook, and departed the operating area poste haste!… so then she started to text, call, while I was driving back home, "you better come back here and talk to me"… "don't play games with me"...

So as I finally get back home, I'm sitting in my jeep, in front of our quarters on Cherry Point (single dad three teenagers), down on the Neuse River, its well past mid-night, and I'm pretty pissed off… as this push/pull… "don't call me anymore" jazz was becoming more and more frequent ( anyone)…

So I finally answered my phone (flip phone ), she lays into me, its all my fault, I've gotten angry wither, because she is angry with me, for what, I've no idea… something about work, and her birthday, and her direct report, and her VP… but its all my fault, because I told her, "if you are going to talk to me this way, I'm going home"… so she thrust those earrings right back into my chest… so I left (is this an early attempt at boundaries)…

During the phone call projection dysregulation, conflagration, she compared me to one of her ex-bf's… and of course I got very angry when she did that… and I said something to the effect… (bad move)… "you know "Q", I picked out those earrings because I thought you would like them, and that they would look very pretty on you, I paid eight Benjamin Franklin's for them, put them on my credit card, and you know what… I'm struggling to pay off debt, I've got three kids living with me, I got bills and responsibilities, I go to buy grocery's, and so forth and so on… blah blah blah… (extinction burst)… and YOU have the "nuts", the "nerve" to throw them (earrings) back in my face, over what, something your boss said to you, so you take it out on me… and then compare me to your ex-bf, well if he is so great, then WHY aren't you still with him… well /F/ this!… I'm going to bed…

We eventfully made up… only to repeat this same cycle over and over, then we got married !

I'd have to take my shoes off, to count how may times (over twenty ) she has thrown this certain argument up in my face over the subsequent years… and she never did take those earrings back… said she would be taking "food" outa my kids mouth… yeah ; (

I think I still have those damned earrings someplace… like a morbid reminder… a "souvenir"…

Yes, as Enabler wrote…

… but since she'd demanded it, emotionally blackmailed me into buying it for her, it really really didn't mean anything. In fact I'd go so far to say that I resented the ring, it made me feel bitter about it, made me think about the lack of reciprocal 'expressions of love' coming the other way.

Sometimes, a fella just cant win…

… that's uBPDw's "modus operandi"… I also, cant count the times, I've returned many other pieces of very nice jewelry to the jewelry store, after she threw it into the trash bin… on Christmas day… after she took down the Christmas tree in a rage on Christmas eve…

This "gift giving"… is going to put Red5 in the loony bin !

I think, what I have been experiencing from uBPDw all these years, is childhood related, she "learned" this behavior… most likely from "Foo" mum, and pop… I betcha!

Well, I actually know, that/that is the truth… as I've been watching them all these years… it seems to be all about "You Better You Better You Bet" (The Who 1981)… or else ____ .

Christmas, and Birthdays in uBPDw's "Foo" seem to be more about a hostage situation, and blackmail, than a "love language"… "meh"… & "smh"… seems more like "love luggage"… ; (

She isn't going to change, and I guess neither am I, and I'll still "keep trying" to please her… and "Lucy van Pelt will move that football once again, just as Charlie Brown try's to kick it"…
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-RghziC5GME

So what to do, learn more?, strive harder to understand?, try harder to "please"?… try harder to connect?, validate the insanity, go along or be punished, devalued… admit fault, and the perceived failure to be considerate at the perceived appropriate time?… "I've got no answers anymore"…

Epilogue… uBPDw and I have been separated for four months today, she did send me a birthday text last week, and a card in the mail, and the card said "Love "Q"

"Q" is my thread name for my uBPDw : )

YES! she wrote… "Love"  

I hope I can get this all figured out, and fixed up, before I friggen turn ninety  !

Hang in there AskingWhy… we all love you !, and have a wonderful day,

Red5

[AskingWhy]

Enabler, Gagrl and Red5, thank you for the replies.

An extravagant piece of jewellery, in and of itself, really has no meaning save the meanings put into it.  Again, my T and I have already discussed this.

As I mentioned earlier, H is very lavish in money and gifts to his adult children.  That is why the jewellery means to so much to me.  They get overseas vacations, furnished apartments, drug and alcohol rehab, cars, designer clothes, etc. and I get trinkets.  That is is reason I am so focused on the jewellery as a symbol.  His own uBPD/NPD F is a skin flint who never got anything for his M in over 60 years of marriage:  just the wedding ring she got on the day she married to stingy b*stard.

My H's love language is a double standard.  Lavish and expensive for his children, and cheap for me.  That is why I am so upset.  They get called pet names (for his Ds it's honey and sweetie; for his S, it's sporty or chippy) and I get nothing--just my given name.  

I am giving H one more gifting occasion to make it up to me. I am not saying another word about the jewellery.  If I don't get what he knows I want, I will buy it myself.  I am bracing for the let down.  H may well say, "I had to pay for the travel and lodging for "our vacation," so I did not have the money to buy anything lavish."  (The "vacation" is nothing more than a trip to visit his D and grandchildren where I am sure to be ignored when H splits and focuses his attention on his D and her family.  It's not like he's taking me on a tropical getaway.)

[GaGrl]

Why give him "one more high-ranking opportunity" if you know the odds are he won't deliver?

Why not gift yourself and enjoy your gift while on a vacay that is not focused on your needs and pleasure?

[AskingWhy]

Why give him "one more high-ranking opportunity" if you know the odds are he won't deliver?

Why not gift yourself and enjoy your gift while on a vacay that is not focused on your needs and pleasure?

Thank you, Gagrl, for the reality check.  I really thought it over about how humiliating it would be to buy myself an anniversary band or solitaire diamond ring as everyone who saw it from sales clerks to family members would presume it was from my husband.  I would have to tattoo, "My husband did not buy me this ring," on my left hand!

And those packages for him just keep showing up:  sports equipment, performance things for his car and motorcycle, clothes, etc.

I am now searching for other ways to spoil myself.  Something just for me.   So many choices!  But the initial inclination to buy myself jewellery has gone away.  It's good not to jump at one's first reactions, but think things through.

[Baglady]

Hi Asking 

I'm going to be brutally honest here - in the nicest possible way I can be 

From my perspective, your desire to purchase "something nice" for yourself is a distraction/denial coping mechanism from what really ails you - your H's spectacularly long-term crappy treatment of you.  No material object is going to fix this essential fact.  Sure - it's going to provide a temporary high and it's great self-care but the difficult relationship issues driving the purchase will still remain.  I get how hard these relationships are - believe me on this - and you absolutely deserve nice fun things to look forward to as rewards for putting up with a difficult partner.  However, you are just putting off dealing with your reality.  Maybe this is what you need to do to cope,  believe me I so get that too 

Have you thought about maybe purchasing an experience for yourself rather than an object?  Maybe a woman's retreat or soul-filling solo vacation? 

Warmly,
B

[AskingWhy]

Baglady, I know a material object won't heal a marriage to a BPD, but at least it's a small consolation to myself.  

Last night I lost it.  It was my turn to be in a rage.  All those years of being treated as a second class citizen in my marriage, watching his adult children be spoiled with expensive gifts, vacations, free cars, free apartments, not to mention the price of going into rehab several times.  I understand this is a common dynamic in BPD marriages, when the non finally wakes up and feels righteous anger at the mistreatment.  The books by Lundy Bancroft discuss the need for this anger in the non.

For the last four years (and I am sure earlier but I did not notice or know how to process it), I have stood by while his children received lavish gifts and money while I got only trinkets.  In many instances, there was no occasion, but "just because" gifts.  "Here you go, sweetheart!  Here is $500 because I know you have your heart set on that pair of skis."  I was humiliating to me, and hurtful.  That is what is driving the anger.  H looked surprised and then defensive.

In truth, H's FOO is a dreadful mess. FIL is uNPD/BPD and spent a lot of money on himself while his wife and children had very little.  FIL was very stingy with his wife, and put her to work so "they" could afford the nice things in life:  golf clubs, sporting equipment, golf green fees, hunting and fishing trips.  At one point, his wife worked two jobs at once.  She was his beast of burden.  Oddly, she thought him the most loving man in the world and thought herself lucky.

Therefore, H did not have the best role model.  In addition to his BPD, I don't think he really knows how to spoil a wife.  H knows on some level that his F is personality disordered or that something is dreadfully wrong, at the very least.  Shame is a big part of the BPD male, and the poverty he was raised in haunts him.  You'd think he would want to be unlike his father in this, and that he'd want to spoil his W with nice things.  Wrong.  H is as cheap and stingy b*astard with me, while spending thousands of dollars on his own hobbies and things, and thousands on his adult children and grandchildren.  No gift is too lavish for them.

I lost it after his adult D dropped by to show off her new SUV with the children in tow.  SUVs are tens of thousands of dollars.  She was so gleeful to show off the luxury features of the SUV her husband bought her (she is a stay at home mother), and H beamed and looked on approvingly, so glad his SIL loved his D so much to spoil her with a nice SUV to run errands and drive the children to play groups and such.  I could feel my blood boil inside my head as I thought of the cheap gifts I had received for occasions over the years.  

H and I ended the evening in an argument over his cheapness, and H told me my dislike of his "well considered" jewellery gifts was a slap in his face.  I replied, "No, get it straight!  Your gift to me was a slap in MY face!"

[Enabler]

A JFK quote springs to mind “Ask not what your country can do for you – ask what you can do for your country”.

'The slate' is killing you. The list/slate of what your H has done for his kids is endless. YOU are generating your own bitterness and resentment towards your H and that poison is rotting your soul. It sucks massively when your partner doesn't want to treat you in the way they treat other people, why doesn't my W want to make my life better in the way that I try and make her life better? Why doesn't she think of me, go out of her way for me in the way she might go out of her way for friends or strangers... I can make rational sense of it in the context of BPD, but it still hurts... BUT, I have made the conscious choice to continue to give regardless of her actions. I have made the conscious choice to provide for my own needs and continue to GIVE GIVE GIVE... why?... because these are my personal values.

You're unlikely to change his behaviour by having an argument with him, and as I said above regarding gifts that are demanded... he will resent the gifts he has given you. What do you think his feelings around gifts are now post your argument?

Enabler

[Notwendy]

It's tough to reconcile these kinds of discrepancies. For me, it's time. My H didn't "have time" for me and the kids when they were younger. He seemed to make time for his hobbies and family, and things he wanted to do, but was "too busy at work" for me. I spent most time alone with the kids for many years.

I got used to being on my own. Now that the kids are older, I tend to do things on my own. I don't even think of asking my H to join me as I adjusted to him "not making time" for me .

He spends some time with me because he realizes he would look like a jerk if he didn't but any time he has some spare time to himself, the first thing he does is spend time on his hobbies.

I'd like to believe he enjoys my company but it's hard to believe that he does considering his actions. If I really admit it, I'm resentful of his not choosing to spend time with me when he has it. But I can't make someone choose to do something if they really don't want to. I've gone on with my own interests and activities.

Even though I don't crave a fancy ring, if I saw my H constantly spending lavishly on other people and not me, I'd resent it. It's not the cost or quantity, it's the proportion of resources and the discrepancy. It is hurtful to not feel like your spouse values you.

[formflier]

  It was my turn to be in a rage.
 
H and I ended the evening in an argument over his cheapness, and H told me my dislike of his "well considered" jewellery gifts was a slap in his face.  I replied, "No, get it straight!  Your gift to me was a slap in MY face!"

Couldn't both of your points of view be correct?

Is it ever a helpful thing to rage?

FF

[Red5]

Over the years… I've tried "gifting" my uBPDw into "loving neutrality"… in order to try to 'quell' the BPD'ism's… most times, to no avail.

Don't get me wrong, I love her, and I like buying her nice things… when I'm in her good graces, and even when I'm not… she on the other hand, can wield quite hurtful responses back my way… like the time she placed the dozen roses into the toilet bowl… that hurt : (

Gifting... as in, if I 'shower' her with nice things, expensive gifts, then maybe she wont "whack" me so hard, and with such frequency… sadly, over the long term, it didn't work…

I've heard this type of behavior (me) as being a 'hostage situation'… or an element of "fog"… (uBPDw) "its my birthday, its "my" anniversary, it's Christmas… it's _____ .  So you better 'deliver' the goods Red5, (mind meld/reading) or you're going to get it (WHACK)… she starts Christmas shopping in July!… I've heard her say many times… "its so and so's birthday, I'd BETTER get them a card, or I wont hear the end of it"…

This is 'programing' from 'Foo'… ie' mum and dad, I could write volumes in regard to subject.

And I've done my part in the 'invalidation' arena as well, case in point those damn blue diamond earrings I mentioned earlier, I should have never 'brought' them into that "all nightery" argument we were having, but that was eleven years ago now?… and she still hauls that one out when she is "wound up"… ; (

Its funny now, but I used to think, if I drop the "big one"… ie' a brand spanking new 2017 Jeep Grand Cherokee (loaded)… in her favorite color (burgundy), and throw in a "Native American" custom made license plate… then she wont "whack" me over the head with her "shalaylee" anytime gain soon… cakes and pies, happy happy joy joy… WRONG !

I've thought about this a lot, basically, we as the "Non" in the relationship, thinking that the pw/BPD is ever going to "come over to the portside" with us, ie' the way we think, the way we want things to go, the way we perceive the relationship (healthy) should be… well, that probably ain't never going to happen… they are who they are, can a person "change" sure they can, but they have to want too, that's the Rubicon here, that's the code book that HAS to go along with Enablers enigma machine, he found in the alleyway behind "Bletchley Park"…

My uBPDw really likes her Cherokee, as far as I know, she is still driving it, I've only seen her in it… about three times over the last four months, as we are separated now… I'm still making the payments on it, and the insurance… and its a good safe, and dependable vehicle or her, kinda like "Red5"…

I'm sorry your in the "midst" of all this AskingWhy… we all know how difficult, and heartbreaking it is when our pw/BPD lets us down, over and over… and our own feelings, needs, and "wants" are never validated… its a tough spot, and it weighs heavy on our minds… and our hearts : (

This is why, we as the Non, must have our own self sustained support system, we cannot, I'm afraid, depend on our pw/BPD to sustain us, its always in "jeopardy" it seems… as in, we have got to be "happy in our own skin"… as in we have to be independent within the marriage/relationship… and we have to wear "chainmail" most of the time, so as to not absorb the many "invalidations" from our significant others... and we have to understand, that what we experience from day to day, week to week, on out to decades… is "part and parcel" of a life, we live with a pw/BPD…

Hang in there AW, and take care of yourself, self sooth, you may very well have to "build your own happiness", you and your husband seem to me… using a silly metaphor here... are like two protected battle cruisers sitting in their berths, at anchor in Montevideo Harbor… both very beautiful, sleek, fast and powerful… and both very adept at taking care of yourselves… but also very capable of inflicting damage upon each other in a moment… on one cruiser the language is German, and on the other, the "Kings English"… and when you do trade signals… very often; much is lost in the translations… and sometimes, the complete wrong message is sent… and then its "battle stations"… and out swing the big guns… not good : (

I can completely understand how you want your husband to relate to you, your needs, and wants in the marriage, you are his wife, and you want him to love and respect you, and treat you as the number one person in his life… we all do this in our own relationships… but it just doesn't happen the way we want it too… my own uBPDw tells me I don't value her, and that I don't respect her… (whack)… I've tried, but there have been too many "whacks" over my grape with that shalaylee she keeps at the ready ALL the time (pbd anger & rage)… over the years I've become worn down, and exasperated… empathy turned to apathy… eg' this is the ways its always going to be"… "she's never going to change, she will only get worse"… so forth and so on… its very hard to keep our heads, and our hearts in these relationships… we all know this.

Seems there should be an element of "mutual respect, and companionship", between these two "battle cruisers" sitting at anchor in this beautiful South American Harbor... er' marriage… …

Hang in there AskingWhy!

Red5
 

[Cat Familiar]

Hi AskingWhy,
What I’m hearing from you is the pain of feeling like you’re always a second-class citizen in your husband’s mind.

Your love language is Gifts and it’s been obvious that your husband puts more thought and generosity into gifts for his children than he does in his gifts to you.

For once, you’d like to feel that you’re number one in his mind, but you feel like an afterthought.

It sounds lik you’ve run out of hope for any improvement in your relationship. How are you managing on a day to day basis?

Cat

[AskingWhy]

Thank you all for the very long, thoughtful replies.

@Enabler, if H resents the gifts he gets me, then that's my boundary and his hard cheese.  My constantly having to do without while he showers his adult children has been insulting over the years.  Your conscious choice to continue giving is your response; mine is to draw that all-important boundary for a pwBPD.  If your SO kept raging and hitting you, would you continue to make excuses for her/his behaviour? Certainly not.  You would make a boundary.

@Notwendy, thank you for your comments of support.  It is indeed painful to see your H gift his children (and himself) that is so out of proportion to what he gives his own W.  You are correct in that it's the proportion and not the gifts themselves.  

@FF, this is indeed the time for me to rage and speak my discontent.  Someone who takes abuse over and over without protest is a masochist who chooses to accept being hurt, insulted or ignored for some perverse reason.  Some of us are masochists.  They take insults and pain without protest.

@Red5, you are on target about BPDs "not getting it."  My H would never "get it" that his going over board with his adult children if I said nothing.  It's like the time H was at a restaurant with me, one of his Ds and her boyfriend, and H was all eyes for his D, ignoring me and the BF and then tickling and pinching his D playfully to the point of discomfort for me and the boyfriend.  The D is almost 30 as is her BF, and I wonder what was going through his head to witness this display.  I know it's part of splitting and part of BPD, but that does not make it appropriate.  Raging, breaking things and DV are part of BPD, and that is not healthy either.  I later mentioned it to H and he said he was unaware that it must have looked bad to the BF.  The lack of self-awareness is a part of BPD.  And, yes, I was let down time and time again.  I am getting tired of it.

@Cat, yes, I am hurt to the point of anger now. H's love language is gifts--but not for me.  He is generous to his children and himself, and I must "work" to receive anything of value.  My "usefulness" in his life is the gauge as to whether or not I "deserve" something.  A case in point of this is the "just because" skis he bought one of his Ds because "she's a good" young woman.  No reason at all, and out of the blue.  He knew she wanted them, so he gave her the money for them just to see the light and joy in her eyes.  I clearly don't merit "just because" gifts.

In conclusion, I have to "win" H's favour in order to get a gift.  I have to demonstrate that I am "worthy" of anything.  H complains about the housekeeping and I am often not up to do this.  I have medical issues and, honestly, am so depressed that I came barely motivate myself to get our of bed in the morning.  The pets force me up as they need to be fed, litter boxes cleaned, and they keep me going.  My H is showing his NPD side just as his father did to his mother:  a W is only of use to a H for what she can provide for him in her labor.  That's not love; that's BPD and wanting an NPD feed.  

Every R/S with a BPD and a non has a breaking point or turning point.  For some, it's abuse of the pets or children, or DV.  Those are non negotiable.  For me, this might seem petty, but it may well be the turning point.My T and I have discussed the jewellery as a symbol of what is going on in the marriage. I think it is a turning point. My heart is now totally hardened to H and his children, who are all selfish and in the BPD/BPD spectrum.  (I have seen them dysregulate, get fired from jobs, use and abuse people, act out sexually, become addicted to substances, and do unethical things, including verbally abusing me.)  This is new to me.  I am an open and very generous person.  I like to help others.  I like being nice and delighting others.  My family has said this of me many times.  As Notwendy pointed out, its is not the gifts alone, but the proportion of them that is unequal.  It is not in my nature to harden my heart to others, but the time has come for me to do this to H and his children.   I am not a masochist and tired of standing by watching others banquet while I starve.  

[Enabler]

@Enabler, if H resents the gifts he gets me, then that's my boundary and his hard cheese.  My constantly having to do without while he showers his adult children has been insulting over the years.  Your conscious choice to continue giving is your response; mine is to draw that all-important boundary for a pwBPD.  If your SO kept raging and hitting you, would you continue to make excuses for her/his behaviour? Certainly not.  You would make a boundary.

Morning Askingwhy,

I see boundaries a bit differently you. You are correct, if my W was screaming and hitting me I would take action, likely I would remove myself from the situation or if it persisted I would ensure my safety (emotional and physical) was forcibly protected either by distance or by authority (police maybe). In this situation my W would be doing something TO ME. I would be identifying some action that my W was carrying out and I would take appropriate action.

What is the action that your H is doing? What is the boundary you have? What is the action YOU will be taking?

You answer could look something like this:

- The behaviour I will not tolerate is that my husband does not buy me expensive diamond rings. If he doesn't buy me an expensive diamond ring for my next birthday, I will divorce him.

How does that look?

Or..

The behaviour I will not tolerate is that my husband does not buy me expensive diamond rings. If he doesn't buy me an expensive diamond ring for my next birthday, I will buy one for myself out of communal funds.

Any better?

See I have a problem with this in as far as it's not what your husband is doing to you, it's what he is not doing to you, and the thing that he is not giving you is special treatment. What's the boundary? You must not give special treatment to other people unless you have given me special treatment first? What if he thinks you don't deserve special treatment? What if he thinks he's already given you special treatment by providing you with a nice home and nice car (just an example, I don't know). Your current boundary attempts to determine how someone else illustrates their respect/love for you... 

Do you buy your H special things? Do you give him special treatment? I just wonder if in his mind he thinks, "AskingWhy is an adult, she can sort herself out, she has money she could spend". I don't know.

My personal choice is to focus on how I treat other people and how I treat myself. What other people DON'T do for me is up to them. I can always choose to stop doing the kind things to them whenever I choose to. I've ditched the slate, it killed me as I was keeping score. I buy my W (who is divorcing me) thoughtful but not over the top gifts for birthdays and Christmas, because I choose to continue to be kind in the face of her contempt... and frankly I think she hates it, but simultaneously see's something in me she can't quite figure out and make sense of... It's that old Christian teaching shining through. I'm the one with integrity and I intend on keeping an iron fist grip on it. It's a choice, not codependancy.

Enabler

[formflier]

Probably a good place to make sure we have our words right.

When you are talking about "rage" and "raging" would a fly on the wall wonder if you are the pwBPD?

or...

Did you mean that you were "assertive" and "stood up for yourself"?

Best,

FF

[AskingWhy]

Wow! There seems to be a lot of gender disparity in this thread on supporting me while I suffer the actions of my uBPD H!  The women overwhelmingly understand and commiserate (thank you for your support, Red!   ) while Enabler and FF seem to want to point out the role I play in mismanaging the situation with my uBPD H.

@FF  Yes, by "rage," I mean exasperation. Yes, I lost it.  Maybe I should have said "livid and indignant."  And anyone seeing the situation for what it was would never mistake that I was BPD.  I am insulted this was inferred. I was very, very hurt and upset over my H's actions and attention he pays to me, and the disproportionate attention and money spent on his adult children.  You cannot begin to understand the hurt I feel.  This is what happens when a woman reaches the end of her empathy rope and can't take the abuse any longer.

Enabler   We all have our own ways of coping with a BPD partner, and each of us has a different threshhold and limit on what is tolerable.  One woman will respond to a fist raised at her in anger with a divorce; another woman will have black eyes, choking and broken limbs and still stay with her BPD or NPD H.  You, due to your own marriage, seem fixated on the issue of the jewellery and accuse me of money grubbing.  This has already been settled at the beginning of the thread.  The jewellery must be seen in the context of the way my H treats me in comparison with his adult children, and a symbol of what I am not getting in the marriage.  And, yes, I do spend a disproportionate amount of money on my H when he makes three times what I do.  Maybe you did not see this, but I spent $300 on valentines Day gifts on him (electronics and a designer jacket), while he just bought me flowers and two cheap boxes of chocolates--and not the luxury brand.

It's interesting to see earlier in this thread how the women were supportive of me, one even relating her own experience with a miserly husband and wedding ring, and the more recent men's comments as inferring that I am not giving enough empathy, and the other has a semantics question on the definition of "rage."

And simply putting a roof over a woman's head is not enough. Here is a great site on why marriages fail and how couples misread each other with divorce as the unhappy result:

I cannot link this because of the vulgar word in the URL, but the site is, "Must Be This Tall To Ride," or "An Open Letter to Sh*tty Husbands."  Even a man who thinks he is doing a great job might be, in fact, regarded as a sh*tty husband by his own wife.  Please read it.




 

[Harri]

This thread has been locked at the OP's request.