uBPDstbxw drama continues

[prof]

Quick recap: uBPDstbxw and I have been separated since January 2018, when I filed for divorce and she tried to overdose on Xanax.  When she got out of the hospital, she moved to another state, 7 hours away.  I have primary custody of S6 and he visits her during most breaks from school.  The divorce is ongoing.
At the end of my last thread (https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=333876), I mentioned how uBPDstbxw had been arrested for failing to show up for court for a previous battery charge.  She was in jail for a week or so, but ultimately made a plea deal and is out on probation.

She's been having lots of financial difficulties (she lost her job in December, around the same time as the originally battery incident, but she claims it was because a prolonged bout of the flu).  She ended up selling almost everything she owns, including her car.  That obviously was going to make any "meet halfway" arrangements for visitations difficult...

S6's Spring Break was last week, and we originally had planned on him going down there for a visit.  After she sold her car, she begged me to drive the whole 7 hours, both ways, both weekends.  I finally relented and agreed.  (I know, I know...  She's always been so good at wearing me down...)

However, she ends up getting a new job (good news for her!), but this prevents her from actually having him visit.  So he stays with me during Spring Break.  He was bummed at first, but then got excited as soon as he realized he'd be going to daycare for the whole day and not just after school!

Meanwhile, she's been sick with the flu (again?), and keeps asking me for money to go to the doctor and buy prescriptions.  And again, I keep caving and giving her some money.

I was suspicious, though, and logged into our health insurance website to see if there have been any medical claims in her name recently.  And there haven't been any in over a month!  So either they just haven't been posted yet (which is possible, but it's been over a week since she first claimed to go to the doctor), or she's lying and is using the money for something else.  (Drugs?  She has a big history of meth abuse from when she was younger, and confessed to doing it again last year right before we separated.)

Also, she ended up losing that new job after just about a week...  Now she's talking about moving back up here.  As much as I don't like the drive, I really don't want to have to see her more frequently!

[flourdust]

Following written guidelines can be helpful in these circumstances. Does your separation agreement say anything that pertains to these choices?

[Panda39]

Hi prof,
Boy does your stbxw sound like my partner's uBPDxw.

Can't hold a job, and "illnesses", I always felt that the illness thing served many purposes...get sympathy/caring/validation from the doctor, her friends, her family, a way to avoid responsibility or doing something (I can't...I'm sick), sometimes drug seeking, and other times (inpatient) a place to hide when she couldn't face the predicaments she put herself in, get a meal, and a bed.

My partner's ex was no stranger to the court either, evicted 3 times, arrested for fraud (wrote a several thousand dollar bad check) and ended up on probation too.

Now she lives in hotels for several months at a time we think her brother uses frequent flier miles to subsidize her, my partner no longer pays alimony and as far as we know she has no job...even though for 8 years she has told us she has had several.

She just had a second knee replacement on one knee because "they put someone else's knee in her". 

I used to be angry and disgusted now I just feel sorry for her... a 54 year old woman incapable of taking care of herself who lost her husband and daughters (D22 NC D18 LC) because of her dysfunctional behaviors.  Her FOO also keeps her at a distance.

I hear you about not wanting the ex returning and seeing her more frequently it will likely complicate things.  If she returns you will really need to pay attention to boundaries.  Reminder: she is responsible for her and you are responsible for you.

Where do things stand with the divorce? 

Panda39

[worriedStepmom]

I wonder if she will be allowed to move back to your state if she is on probation in another state.  It's difficult to meet with your probation officer if you don't live there or have a car to get back...

I know it's a little weird for you because of where you are in the divorce process.  Does your L know and support you handing money over to her and agreeing to such lengths to provide S?  If your L isn't actively encouraging these actions, then it might be worthwhile to talk it over with a therapist - to explore the reasons behind your desire to rescue her.  That might actually be a good idea even if the L is actively encouraging you.

[prof]

Following written guidelines can be helpful in these circumstances. Does your separation agreement say anything that pertains to these choices?

We don't have a separation agreement, just a temporary custody order.  It's not too specific -- I have primary custody, and she can have visitation at my discretion.

Her FOO also keeps her at a distance.

This comment jumped out at me.  The whole reason uBPDstbxw moved 7 hours away to another state in the first place was because her stepmom (ex-stepmom?  her dad's ex-wife) offered her a place to stay.  Now it turns out that she's not speaking to her stepmom.  She's also not speaking to her sister.  (Which comes as no surprise -- their relationship was hot-cold our entire marriage.)

 

Where do things stand with the divorce?  

Things have been dragging on forever.  If I'm understanding things correctly, uBPDstbxw still hasn't filed an official response to my original petition for divorce.  And even though she's well past the deadline, the judge still wants to give her an opportunity to do so since she's the mother of a small child with a custody situation.

A few weeks ago, she announced she wanted her share of my retirement account ASAP, so her L talked to mine about a QDRO.  But my L responded by requesting we move to finalize so she can get her share that way.  So we'll see.

[prof]

I wonder if she will be allowed to move back to your state if she is on probation in another state.  It's difficult to meet with your probation officer if you don't live there or have a car to get back...

Yeah, I've had this same thought.

I know it's a little weird for you because of where you are in the divorce process.  Does your L know and support you handing money over to her and agreeing to such lengths to provide S?  If your L isn't actively encouraging these actions, then it might be worthwhile to talk it over with a therapist - to explore the reasons behind your desire to rescue her.  That might actually be a good idea even if the L is actively encouraging you.

I mentioned that I've lent money to her recently in an email to my L, but he hasn't responded as to whether he supports this or not.  His general advice has been to pay for things to give examples of me doing good things for her to help pull the rug out from under her arguments that I'm such a horrible person.  (I continue to pay her cell phone bill and student loan/credit card payments.)

I'll definitely bring this up at my next T appointment.

[ForeverDad]

Frankly, she will keep asking you for money as long as you keep paying her every time she makes requests, guiltings or excuses.

In the instance of claimed doctor bills, you can state that you'll reimburse her for her doctor co-pays.  "Send me your paid bill and I will probably send you reimbursement."  No, proof, no $$$.

A few weeks ago, she announced she wanted her share of my retirement account ASAP, so her L talked to mine about a QDRO.  But my L responded by requesting we move to finalize so she can get her share that way.

It is standard for QDRO terms to be part of the Final Decree.  Be very, very careful not to disburse money from your retirement accounts directly to her.  The IRS will consider this to be your withdrawal and your tax liability.  The proper way to split retirement funds, if that is what's decided, is for your investment company to create a new account in her name and then they transfer the proper amount from your account to her new account.  Then they advise her of her account's details and she can do with it whatever she wishes once she is no longer married with you and you don't suffer tax consequences or whatever.  If a check is written to her, even if it states it is to her retirement account, then she's likely to ignore the proper destination and just try to cash it which expands your suffering with the legal mess.

Frankly, view her request as something to provide incentive for her to help move the case forward.  Still, follow the normal procedures for calculating how much she should properly get based on how long you were married, how much the accounts increased during the marriage and whatever other factors.  Accept that being overly generous will not make her start being reasonable, responsible or reciprocate similarly.

[Panda39]

This comment jumped out at me.  The whole reason uBPDstbxw moved 7 hours away to another state in the first place was because her stepmom (ex-stepmom?  her dad's ex-wife) offered her a place to stay.  Now it turns out that she's not speaking to her stepmom.  She's also not speaking to her sister.  (Which comes as no surprise -- their relationship was hot-cold our entire marriage.)

Very likely the reason she is thinking of returning, sounds like the support may be drying up...likely due to her own actions and behaviors.

Just snooping around on the internet, probation can be transferred to another state but there has to be a good reason...
https://www.wikihow.com/Transfer-Probation

Panda39

[prof]

Frankly, she will keep asking you for money as long as you keep paying her every time she makes requests, guiltings or excuses.

Yeah, I'm finally starting to realize that...

Be very, very careful not to disburse money from your retirement accounts directly to her.  The IRS will consider this to be your withdrawal and your tax liability.

We actually already disbursed a smaller retirement account from my last job to her a few months back.  At my L's advice, I kept a good-sized chunk of it and send that in as both state and federal estimated tax.  So I should be ok.  I'm far enough from the top of my current marginal tax bracket that I'm not too worried even if she gets more that way.


So last night, I got a message from a friend of hers that she had threatened to hurt herself.  I called the sheriff down there to do a wellness check.  She's apparently ok because I got a couple texts from her this morning.

This afternoon, I got a message from another friend of hers.  This friend has known uBPDstbxw for much longer than me, going way back to her meth days.  She's observed some of the same behaviors she saw back then and is worried she might be using again...

[worriedStepmom]

This afternoon, I got a message from another friend of hers.  This friend has known uBPDstbxw for much longer than me, going way back to her meth days.  She's observed some of the same behaviors she saw back then and is worried she might be using again...

That's definitely disturbing.  Will that suspicion change any of your willingness to help transport your son to her?  Or perhaps change what you ask for in the divorce (a drug test?)?

Does your L have a timeline on when he can get the judge to force forward progress?  It doesn't sound like she will be in any hurry to speed up the process, especially if you are continuing to fund her.

[livednlearned]

You may want to do a credit freeze on your son's SSN...

[prof]

That's definitely disturbing.  Will that suspicion change any of your willingness to help transport your son to her?  Or perhaps change what you ask for in the divorce (a drug test?)?

I'm absolutely having very serious second thoughts about any future visitations.  Hadn't thought about a drug test -- I'll ask my L.

Does your L have a timeline on when he can get the judge to force forward progress?  It doesn't sound like she will be in any hurry to speed up the process, especially if you are continuing to fund her.

If I recall, something was supposed to be happening this month or next.  I'll have to bug my L about it.

You may want to do a credit freeze on your son's SSN...

Do you think she might try to take a credit card out his name?  (Knowing her, she'd end up calling me to find out what his SSN even is...)


I got two phone calls from uBPDstbxw today.  The first call, she asked to talk to S6.  While I was calling him over to talk to his mom, she started hitting me up for more money.  When I asked about it, she started coming up with excuses with why shouldn't couldn't apply for food stamps or go to a food bank.  When it was clear she wasn't getting any more money, she hung up on me.  She never even talked to S6...

The second call, she told me that she was "dying" and asked me to "fix" her problem.  I asked her what she meant by this, but she acted like what she was asking was perfectly clear.  She insisted that I was a "murderer" for throwing her out and making it so that shouldn't couldn't get medical treatment.  (I reached out to her family when she was hospitalized after the suicide attempt, making it clear that I didn't think it was a good idea for her to move back in when she got out.  Her stepmom offered her a place to live while she got back on her feet.  The same stepmom she no longer talks to.  And in regards to the medical treatment thing, we're still married and she still has pretty good insurance through my employer...)  After a few minutes of her repeating herself, I just ended the conversation.

[prof]

uBPDstbxw texted another old mutual friend of ours at some point this morning saying, "Please help me, I don't want to die."  The mutual friend passed this on to me, so I called the sheriff for yet another wellness check.

A little while later, I get a phone call from her, livid with me for calling the police.  I wasn't going to try and have a conversation with her as angry as she was, so I ended the conversation.  She then tried calling back several times, and eventually texted me, demanding to know who the friend was.  I ignored her -- I wasn't about to give up the friend.  They'd already gone through enough getting the first text!

I just sent my L a note about the possibility of cutting off all future S6 visits until her life stabilizes and maybe pass a drug test.

[ForeverDad]

You may chose to change how you handle reports from others about your spouse's behaviors.  Of course, log the reports for your future reference if needed during the divorce.  But since your spouse currently isn't seeing your child regularly, wouldn't the best person to call police be the one who actually heard or saw the concerning behaviors?  They may not want to get involved but you now know what to expect if you get in the middle.  If a visit with the children is looming, you may chose to take a more active approach. 

How does that sound?

[formflier]

Prof,

Getting caught up on your story.

Wow.

I think that you doing the wellness check thing is good "risk management" and it also is good to create/keep records.  You are letting someone "on the scene" make a call, vice trying to sort things out from a distance.

I would expand the "checklist" for a future visit.

1.  Drug test
2.  Some length of time without wellness checks and suicidal ideation.
3.  Bills in hand for the doctor "visits" that you paid.  If, as you suspect, she scammed you for money I would wait until that has been completely paid back before even "considering" a future visit.


Is there a way to get a counselor/evaluator involved on the other end?  On the one hand  it's good you have control over the visits, but it puts you in a hard position.  If something goes south, I suspect the courts could hold you just as much, or perhaps more responsible that her.

However, if there is a local evaluator that is saying she is on good behavior...perhaps that would help.

Hang in there...

FF

[prof]

You may chose to change how you handle reports from others about your spouse's behaviors.  Of course, log the reports for your future reference if needed during the divorce.  But since your spouse currently isn't seeing your child regularly, wouldn't the best person to call police be the one who actually heard or saw the concerning behaviors?  They may not want to get involved but you now know what to expect if you get in the middle.  If a visit with the children is looming, you may chose to take a more active approach. 

How does that sound?

That is an excellent point.  I suppose the same impulse that caused me to run to uBPDstbxw's rescue so many times during our relationship is making feel responsible for her wellbeing to the point where I'm the one calling the sheriff for these wellness checks?

1.  Drug test
2.  Some length of time without wellness checks and suicidal ideation.
3.  Bills in hand for the doctor "visits" that you paid.  If, as you suspect, she scammed you for money I would wait until that has been completely paid back before even "considering" a future visit.

These sounds good to me!

Is there a way to get a counselor/evaluator involved on the other end?  On the one hand  it's good you have control over the visits, but it puts you in a hard position.  If something goes south, I suspect the courts could hold you just as much, or perhaps more responsible that her.

However, if there is a local evaluator that is saying she is on good behavior...perhaps that would help.

She was seeing a social regularly after she first moved out of state after being released from the psychiatric hospital.  Looking at our insurance website, there hasn't been a claim since August, however.  She does see a psychiatrist every few months -- the most recent visit was just last month.

[formflier]

Prof,

First of all...catching up here.  How you are feeling about the status of things?  Your relationship with your son? 


2nd:  I'm reluctant to join in suggesting that you should resist calling the sheriff when you become aware of potential shenanigans.  Here is the point of view:  Right now YOU are the decider about the welfare of your son, visitation and all that.  To be able to make informed decisions...you need information.  You are getting it.  (I get it you would wish it's better news)

Put it another way.  Is it wiser to be more involved in her shenanigans long distance and be able to limit her contact with your son when she is off the rails, versus having your son down there when she actually starts misbehaving..especially if you were to find out later there was tons of stuff you "wish you would have known"

Now..if you decide to restrict visits to time when she is certified "compliant" by professionals down there that you trust...then I'm totally onboard with you backing away.

Tough call...I can't bring myself to say it's "wrong" for you to back away...just sayin'...lots to balance here.

FF

[kells76]

Hey prof;

She does see a psychiatrist every few months -- the most recent visit was just last month.

Could you remind me how you get this info? Just curious if it's from your son's mom or if you find out (i.e. have absolute confirmation) some other way.

Tough situation. You deserve kudos for your hard work considering what's best for your son.

-kells76

[prof]

First of all...catching up here.  How you are feeling about the status of things?  Your relationship with your son?

Outside of dealing with the occasional uBPDstbxw drama (which while stressful, pales in comparison to the constant drama pre-separation), I love my life and feel very blessed.  S6 and I have a great relationship.  We're active together in church and Cub Scouts, he's doing well in school and just started karate, which he's really enjoying.  I have a great job that I love (and I was recently told that I was recommended for promotion for the next academic year!), and I'm slowly but surely rebuilding my finances.

2nd:  I'm reluctant to join in suggesting that you should resist calling the sheriff when you become aware of potential shenanigans.  Here is the point of view:  Right now YOU are the decider about the welfare of your son, visitation and all that.  To be able to make informed decisions...you need information.  You are getting it.  (I get it you would wish it's better news)

Put it another way.  Is it wiser to be more involved in her shenanigans long distance and be able to limit her contact with your son when she is off the rails, versus having your son down there when she actually starts misbehaving..especially if you were to find out later there was tons of stuff you "wish you would have known"

Now..if you decide to restrict visits to time when she is certified "compliant" by professionals down there that you trust...then I'm totally onboard with you backing away.

Tough call...I can't bring myself to say it's "wrong" for you to back away...just sayin'...lots to balance here.

Makes sense!  I definitely feel more inclined to call the sheriff than not when she's making suicidal threats.  She's burned so many bridges that I don't know if anyone else would!

Could you remind me how you get this info? Just curious if it's from your son's mom or if you find out (i.e. have absolute confirmation) some other way.

She still has her medical insurance through my employer, and I can see all her medical claims through our insurer's website.

Tough situation. You deserve kudos for your hard work considering what's best for your son.

Thanks!


Update:  uBPDstbxw checked herself into a psychiatric hospital on Friday.

[ForeverDad]

Update:  uBPDstbxw checked herself into a psychiatric hospital on Friday.

Likely the HIPAA privacy law (for USA) will limit how much, if any, details you get about her treatment or outcome.  Well, unless she grants you access.  However, the court or appointed evaluators and other experts (professionals with no skin in the game as you do as parent) do not have all your restrictions.  Yes, she could still refuse to divulge or sign over her information, but their alternative could be to limit her contact with the children, such as supervised, limited or slowed progress on her increasing her parenting time.  Be aware you may have to nudge the professionals in that direction.

[formflier]

Again...you are in the fortunate/unfortunate role of "decider".  Especially when dealing with safety of S6, caution and prudence are paramount.

So, if you are blocked from getting clear answers about her stability, I can't imagine you being able to do anything other than require supervised visits.  Perhaps her mental health team can provide someone to supervise.

Switching gears:  If my memory serves me correctly, she's been through the hospital route several times.  How does this normally play out?  What healthy role can you play?

FF

[prof]

Switching gears:  If my memory serves me correctly, she's been through the hospital route several times.  How does this normally play out?  What healthy role can you play?

Yes -- I'm aware of two previous psychiatric hospitalizations.  One a year or two before we started dating, and then the one last year after she overdosed when it was clear our marriage was about to end.

I can't speak to the first hospitalization, but the second one seemed very positive.  She accepted that our marriage was over with grace and quickly got her life back on track, finding a job and an apartment surprisingly quickly after moving out of state.  Her life seemed like it was in pretty good shape, at least from my point of view, for close to a year.

[prof]

uBPDstbxw was released from the hospital yesterday.  She claims that there was a program that would help her get on her feet in the long term, but she would only qualify if she were abusing drugs or alcohol, which she hasn't been.

Supposedly she only has a home for 5 more days.  Her church has offered to store her things for her, but she's been too weak to actually pack them up.

She asked me for money for food today, but I declined to give her any.  She's also pressing me to get in touch with my L about disbursing that retirement account.

[formflier]

Have you asked her for proof of the "medical bill" that you paid? 

Solid work declining to send her "food" money.

Is it a correct understanding that retirement account only gets disbursed when divorce is final?  Can you use this to your advantage?  She signs final settlement (with you having full custody..of course), judge blesses it, when your L says it is final she gets her half.

Hang in there Prof, you are doing good work!

FF

[ForeverDad]

Besides being an end-of-divorce matter, retirement accounts take time to have all the papers filed, verified, returned to court and split to separate accounts.  The term for this is QDRO - Qualified Domestic Relations Order.

She is wanting a distribution... and probably not the last one either, you know she will just ask again and again.  That means tax liabilities including early withdrawal penalties fall onto you since it's your retirement account.  What a QDRO does is outline precisely what is to occur and only with court approval.  She would never get a distribution from your account.  It would create (or utilize) her own account, split the money to there and then she could get distributions until it's all gone.  But it would be her tax and early withdrawal consequences, not yours.

If you really feel you have to provide something sooner, ask your lawyer for legal advice, whether she can sign a document that any payment would reduce whatever she might receive from you or your retirement accounts later in a divorce.  I have no idea whether the court or laws allow that as an alternative.

[GaGrl]

I worked in HR/People Services for 40 years. One of the reasons I didn't enjoy Benefits and Compensation was the heavy regulations around it.

This is the time to start getting specifics on paper regarding a settlement agreement. The  right way to do the 401k (as ForeverDad describes) is leverage to move things along.

Otherwise, she is going to nickel-and-dime you as well as stretch the process out ad infinitum nauseum.