Well look who’s back

[HopelessBroken]

For those of you who don’t remember me from last summer, I spent 2.5 years with a dBPD boyfriend. Numerous recycles and last summer he broke up with me out of no where, immediately
began dating a new woman, stalked me, my house, calls, emails, brought her to places where I was. I was contemplating both a restraining order and suicide. Due to us both being in law enforcement it brought this to a whole new level.

For those on the edge of your seat, here’s how this story turned out.

After 90 days of me going n/c, he got me in the middle of the night on the phone, from an unknown number. We started to talk and we never stopped. He had escalated to physical abuse with the new woman and she left. He soon got into therapy with a new and better, provider and was also diagnosed with ptsd. We decided that we would see his therapist together due to all of the verbal and emotional abuse I went through from him. The lack of trust, affairs, the worry of being broken up with out of no where for the 9th time, the fact that everyone I know hated him, etc. We began a relationship again.  I did all the things I told myself I should have done and I said all the things I didn’t say before to him. All the “should haves” that replayed in my head last summer when I was left behind, I did them all right this time. He made huge changes and I was open and veunerable with him no matter how horribly difficult it felt.  I was open about being so scared.  He reassured me I did not need to worry and he would show me that he was making huge changes. He would spend the rest of his life showing me until it became a non issue. I kept going to my self esteem/abuse support group. He began working on trauma from his childhood that I didn’t know existed.  We went on trips, celebrated holidays together, started going to church weekly together. We talked frequently about marriage, grandkids, what we would do in retirement, and that for him I was the only one on this earth that he wanted to spend his life with. I could finally just take a deep breath after 6 months.

Until a week and a half ago and BOOM. Broken up with out of no where and hung up on while I was still talking.

Yep. That happened.

AND IF THAT IS NOT ENOUGH, he called my ex husband (who is remarried) a week after Breaking up with me, to tell him I had an affair on him when I was married and CONNECT HIM WITH THE SPOUSE OF GUY. This was something from 7 years ago. SOMETHING I CONFIDED IN HIM ABOUT. He’s had no contact with me. I found this out when the guy called me in a panic.

WHAT?

So to recap, I fell in love with someone and stuck in the relationship despite manipulation, abuse, affairs, threatening, interrogating, accusing, stalking and harassing. Forgave and supported him through change despite my trauma, believed and trusted all to be left again and now put in the middle of a hurricane of guilt and shame for a decision I made years ago while married.  I CANT EVEN WITH THIS GUY. (Insert super angry orange face here).

For those of you who stuck with this lifetime movie, here are the questions I have:

1. Does someone with BPD truly believe they can stick with someone for life? Or do they just say “forever” for fun but know they can’t uphold that promise?

2. Does it feel good to a BPD person to inflict emotional pain on others?  He’s threatened multiple times to tell people in my life intimate secrets about me. This time he followed through. (And to clarify he left me).

3. How can a person with BPD say you are the most important person to them in this world in one breath and walk away to not speak again in the next?

Any thoughts are appreciated. I’m struggling.

[I Am Redeemed]

Hi, hopelessbroken,

I do remember you and your story. Welcome back, although I wish it were under better circumstances.

I will try to answer your questions as best I can to my understanding. Not all pwBPD do this sort of thing, but for those who do, I believe that the emotions and love they feel are real to them at the time they are expressing them. However, since feelings=facts, and their emotions and moods can sometimes change on a dime, they can split and paint someone black over a real or imagined offense, and then those feelings=facts. So yes, maybe it does give them a sense of satisfaction to inflict emotional pain because to them, they are acting out of a defensive position since they perceive themselves as a victim (even if that has no basis in reality). BPD is a complicated disorder. One of the criteria is a history of unstable, rocky relationships; another is swinging between the extremes of idealization/devaluation. There is rarely a gray area. PwBPD struggle to reconcile both positive and negative qualities existing in the same person simultaneously. So this extreme all-or-nothing thinking can cause the confusion of being the best thing since sliced bread one day and the scum of the earth the next, without any warning or even understanding of why this happened.

Was there an argument? Do you have any idea what triggered the break up and him hanging up on you? It sounds like an awfully impulsive and out-of-nowhere instance of painting you black. I'm so sorry you are going through this after all you invested, and after putting aside the past and opening yourself up to another chance at the relationship.

Do you think it has anything to do with his therapy and working on the past trauma? Sometimes people who have experienced severe trauma can have memories suddenly resurface and throw them into quite a mental and emotional tailspin, even those without a personality disorder.

I'm glad you're back. We are here, and we are listening.

[HopelessBroken]

Thank you for the thoughtful response. I actually had forgotten about the feelings equals facts thinking.

Things were going extremely well. We had just celebrated his birthday a few days prior where he told me it’s was the first time he’s woken up on a birthday and been truly happy with himself. We had a lot of plans scheduled for the weeks to come and a baseball game together the following day.

The day he broke up with me was a normal day. Talked to him to and from work and texted during the day. (Love you, etc) on my drive home he let me go to go for a run and I spent the night doing yard work. When I came inside I had a bunch of odd texts about hating everything, he was drinking, and then extatic about his student loan payment consolidation. I didn’t know what to say to all of this so I wrote “I don’t know how to respond to this.” Then it went downhill from there, his responses were things like, of course you don’t, sorry for venting to you about my struggles, I will keep them to myself, I’m going to bed, (we always talk on the phone at night) so I said “goodnight” then he responded “let’s skip the game tomorrow.”  So I called him to ask what was going on. He was argumentative, drunk, said he had unleashed on his parents and a sibling earlier. Daughter needed money for her wedding and son needed a ride to the airport. “ Everyone is attacking me.”  I asked him what I could do to help and he said “nothing, you have no idea what’s going on, you live in your own little world, you wouldn’t know.”  I said his behavior towards me doesn’t feel good right now. It’s remind me of his old behavior, like we were going back down that road. He responded “okay superior HopelessBroken.” “I’m not doing this anymore, I’m done.” I responded, WHAT? I’m telling you that your behavior towards me isn’t okay, that it’s triggering the way you used to treat me and you...CLICK.

He knows the hanging up on me is a big deal as I’ve asked him several times that he not do that.

Something from his childhood came up in March and he hasn’t been ready to tell me, so I’ve been patient. Should I have not told him that his behavior was triggering? I struggle with not setting that boundary on how I will be treated. Plans get taken away because I didn’t text correctly? Then I get broken up with because I said I didn’t like his behavior. Or, am I missing something?

[HopelessBroken]

I forgot to add, the last time he broke up with me he was doing the same “ sorry for venting to you I will keep my struggles to myself, you don’t understand.” And my response of, tell me what you need when you feel this way, clearly isn’t right.

So that victim stance from him triggered me this time and then the same outcome occurred.

[I Am Redeemed]

I struggled with setting that boundary with my ex, too. I got to a point where I was just way too triggered by him to be anything but reactive.

He probably wasn't receptive to hearing that at all from you. Drinking plus the BPD probably had him in full victim mode, the world is against me type thinking. Not the best condition to find a little room for some empathy for you, that's for sure.

It was probably futile to try to talk to him at all in that state, especially with the alcohol. Could you have done something different? Probably, but would it have made a difference? I doubt it.

I suspect that he probably has been struggling with the memory that came up, and that may have sent him backwards. Possibly he has been dealing with a lot of shame, which can be intolerable to pwBPD. The comment about you being superior makes me think he was probably feeling bad about himself and projected onto his family and you.

[HopelessBroken]

I get a bit of relief from hearing you say that saying something different most likely would not have presented a different outcome. Unlike last time when he stalked and harassed me, this time there is no contact from him but the reputation trashing which is as difficult. It feels almost impossible to sit in this place of sadness, anger, fear and anxiety all at once.

[I Am Redeemed]

I know what you mean about the feelings all at once. It's really hard when you invested so much into someone else, and not only is it unrecognized, but that person actually feels that you harmed him and vindictively acts out against you.

My ex started a smear campaign against me on Facebook when I went NC last October. I had to, he was escalating towards physical abuse again. I had a protective order, but I was trying to give him a chance to see his son. All that did was give him a chance to pressure me to come back. He did several things that violated the po, but I didn't call the police. Finally I got the courage to go NC, and ever since then he plays victim on Facebook, saying that I am a liar, that I left him because I am on drugs, that I was seeing someone else and am now alienating him from our son. He's just a good father who made a couple mistakes and it is not right that I won't let him see his son or tell him that he's ok. There have been frequent pleas to multiple people to confront me and tell me to let him see his son.

It used to make me angry, but now I just shake my head. He will never see reality for what it is, and he will never see our relationship for what it really was.

Do you see a counselor? I found that therapy helped my recovery immensely.

This is not your fault. He is disordered, and even with therapy it was apparently not enough to keep him from flipping out. Sometimes pwBPD do things that self sabotage, whether they realize it or not, and that is what he did by ruining this relationship. You were good for him. Maybe on a subconscious level he felt shame over that, and his defense to the shame caused him to split. It is sad, and it's OK for you to have all those feelings right now. We're here, we understand.

[HopelessBroken]

I honestly wish I could take the reputation ruining less seriously..the thing is, I never wanted to hurt my ex-husband and left the relationship vs telling him about the affair. The BPD knew that and threatened to tell him over and over. I have unresolved guilt and shame over the affair and know it’s contributing to how badly I feel. Looking back, someone who truly loves you doesn’t threaten to “expose” you. And sure as h*ll doesn’t follow through on it.

So therapy. I went for individual May of 2016 to September of 2018. He did individual with my therapist. We did couples with my therapist. He quit both. He saw new therapist, who couldn’t handle him and referred him elsewhere. I attended a self esteem, domestic abuse group from August of 2018 to October of 2018 when the group changed to physical domestic violence group. This month I start EMDR, a form of therapy to address trauma. This month we were to start couples with his therapist.

[I Am Redeemed]

I've been doing physical domestic abuse counseling since October. My counselor is moving to a full time position elsewhere, but the dv office has approved a subcontract with her so I can keep going when she gets settled (she was an intern and is graduating). We did a few emdr sessions and I found it very helpful, so we are going to continue.

You are right, love does not threaten to expose your secrets. That's emotional blackmail, and it is abusive.

Have you spoken to your ex husband since his spouse was contacted by your bf? Perhaps this could be a chance for you to acknowledge the past and your mistake, and then let it go. It can not hold any power over you then. Perhaps your ex husband may not have the reaction you feared. And even if he doesn't want to forgive you, you can forgive yourself. People make mistakes. Maturity comes with learning from that and choosing to do something different next time... something your bf did not learn, sadly, and maybe never will.

[HopelessBroken]

I’m so glad to hear you said the EMDR was helpful. It’s something the therapist at the abuse group recommended. My physical reactions are intense still when I think about what I’ve experienced. My thoughts are intense and scary. Remind me how long out of your relationship you are?

The BPD contacted my ex husband and told him about the affair and then connected him with the wife of the man I had the affair with. To in essence to hurt the largest amount of people. It’s funny you ask if I’ve thought about connecting with my ex. I have, and I will have to as we share dogs, but I’m really scared to.

I remember the BPD said last time, to his crazy hurtful post breakup behavior, that he was doing anything possible in attempts to make me hate him. Then, if he knew I hated him he could move on. Wondering if that’s what he was going for here.

[babyducks]

HopelessBroken,

I'm sorry for all you have went through and what you are going through now.   I know it's terribly painful.   Here is my input on your questions.

1. Does someone with BPD truly believe they can stick with someone for life? Or do they just say “forever” for fun but know they can’t uphold that promise?

I think this question shows how very differently you process life, emotions, events than your EX does.   First the question is all about some one else, and second the question assumes that emotions span long lengths of time.  People who are organized at the borderline level don't think like this.   I agree with what Margalis Fjelstad said in her book:

pwBPD Believe that the emotions of the moment are totally accurate and will last forever

The important part being the 'of the moment'.    if I get angry with you and I have BPD I believe that I will be angry with you forever and that you must have done something truly terrible to cause such huge and intense emotions.   I don't think they say it for fun.   and I am not sure that the executive functioning is strong enough to reason out what forever means.     

2. Does it feel good to a BPD person to inflict emotional pain on others? 

In my experience, and from what I have read, I would say No.   Again from Fjelstad:

The emotional instability of BPD leaves sufferers believing that the only way to change how they feel is to get other people or events to change.

He's changing events by rewriting what happened.    He didn't treat you badly.   You weren't worthy of good treatment,... and here comes a long litany of reasons why he was justified.    Look how far he is reaching to soothe his own chaotic emotions.     

3. How can a person with BPD say you are the most important person to them in this world in one breath and walk away to not speak again in the next?

My two cents,  I don't think it's easy for them.    I think there is so much emotional instability, thought instability, and behavioral instability they spend a lot of time forcing square pegs into round holes trying to make things fit.

we spend a lot of time on these boards talking about the harmfully intense emotions of BPD, and how difficult it is to regulate those emotions.    Kind of like a roller coaster without brakes.   or an engine without a working throttle.   whatever the feeling of the moment is, it's so large it drowns everything else out.    must be a horrible way to live.

this doesn't excuse his behavior,  far from it.  but there is a logic behind what he says and does.   a distorted logic driven by a serious mental illness.    expecting reasonable behavior, or expecting him to react in the ways you might or would,  well let's just say that is never going to happen.

I am sorry for the damage you've experienced.     I'm glad you are reaching out for support for yourself.

'ducks

[I Am Redeemed]

I left in November 2017 following some severe physical abuse and psychotic episodes of my ex. He went to jail for nine months. I still had contact with him, though I was adamant that I was not getting back in the relationship unless he showed real effort to get help. In October of 2018 I went NC after a series of escalating behaviors during the times I let him see our son, culminating in him disabling my van so it wouldn't start, then gaslighting me about it, then sexually assaulting me. I have been NC for just over six months.

[Educated_Guess]

Hi HopelessBroken!  I remember you and your story.  I am sorry that you are going through such a difficult time but I'm glad to see you here again. 

Is it possible that your ex may have some NPD traits?  The "superior" comment and his desire to punish you makes me think of NPD behavior patterns.

[HopelessBroken]

Thank you ducks, guess and remembered. I need you to know how much I appreciate you thinking through this with me.  By how great things were going I had convinced myself that the BPD diagnosis was incorrect and didn’t use many of the skills I was using at first when we started talking again. I also let my needs to heal the abuse behavior with him get delayed for his therapy and I let my guard down and was acting like I was in a normal relationship. Look at me take the blame.

I’ve never thought about the NPD as playing a part here. I think some of the characteristics are similar to BPD, right?

[I Am Redeemed]

I see a lot of BPD traits in the behaviors you described. I can see how EG sees some npd traits as well, especially the smear campaign and the outing of your past affair. Somewhere on this site I read a post from Randi Kreger that said that npd is more likely to be deliberately cruel. Perhaps he has traits of both, possibly enough for diagnosis, but that isn't really as important as knowing what behaviors you experienced and the impact he had on you.

It can be easy to slack on the "tools" when it seems that everything is going well. I can see how you saw improvement in him and felt as if everything was going to be "normal" and "ok". It's kind of like taking antibiotics for a sinus infection, and you start to feel better, so you don't finish out the round of antibiotics...and then suddenly you start to feel sick again.

[babyducks]

I’ve never thought about the NPD as playing a part here. I think some of the characteristics are similar to BPD, right?

Hi HB,

many of the disorders that we discuss here have a tremendous amount of overlap too them.    in other words no one fits neatly into one category or another.    the boundaries between some of these disorders are so fuzzy and loose that trained professionals hesitate to make firm diagnoses.

BPD and NPD are often considered so close to each other that they are discussed together.  the big difference as I understand it is people with BPD believe they are inherently flawed, broken, and bad people and try to cover that up.    people who are more NPD on the spectrum believe they are inherently better, more entitled and believe we should match them.     in both disorders what we experience is the needs/wants of the BPD/NPD come first,  our needs/wants only matter if the serve the BPD/NPD is some way.

[JNChell]

HP, ducks is right. There’s a tremendous amount of overlap. The clinical term is “comorbid”. I’ve met one person here who’s husband was diagnosed with BPD alone. It was a success story.    Borderline individuals can be very narcissistic. Covert/waif.

[HopelessBroken]

I remember our therapist talking about “cluster B” personalities although did focus on BPD exclusively. Although a few people who I introduced him to said “he’s rather arrogant” which oddly enough I didn’t see. Well, along with the 425 other negative traits I didn’t see.

It’s hard for me to wrap my head around both. It was agreed upon by him that he hated himself, tons of guilt and shame, no solid sense of self. So it’s confusing then that at the same time he could have an inflated sense of self and belief that he is above others.

[babyducks]

HB,

at the core of both BPD and NPD is guilt and shame.    both disorders have shame and self loathing at the center.    How the shame, self loathing is dealt with is what makes them different.     People with NPD or the traits of NPD cover up the shame and self loathing by projecting 'I Am The Best Person In The World', to mask feelings of inadequacy, shame and brokenness.

NPD has components of BPD and BPD has components of NPD.   They are very close to each other on the spectrum.

Even if your EX is 'only' BPD how he expresses his disorder is unique to him, his own experiences and maladaptive coping skills are going to be different than my EX.    One size does not fit all.

[JNChell]

HB, S4’s mom exhibits both. Borderline and narcissistic traits. She ranks high  on narcissism.

babyducks is accurate. With all of these things being known, I was guided to look at the behavior and how it affected me. Going deeper, I was shown why. It’s liberating and saddening at the same time.

Maybe start to look at the behavior more than the labels. The psychology behind this stuff is fascinating because we have to know. But once we know we can get a little stuck.