Some ramblings - victim mindset, letting go, acceptance and support.

[Depression = 72% of members]

Hi,

Some thoughts have been rolling over and over in my mind for too long. I thought I might write them down here. Sorry if this is a rambling post…

I wondered out loud one evening who gets the most out of music – DH or me. Without a seconds’ thought, DH answered: ‘You of course, you need it to process your emotions, whereas I can mostly just regulate them in my day-to-day life. So true. I use music to self-soothe, and I use books and reading to hide, to escape into another world.

I have been so busy with day-to-day life that I made little progress in emotional learning this past month. There is a pull however, to go back to working on my inner self. I still feel a victim of my childhood. There are some incidents that still linger in my mind. Though I wrote them out, talked them over with a T, even did some EMDR, they still have an emotional impact on me. I suspect me still feeling a victim also affects my current relationships and my sense of self. I am not sure how to progress further. What do I have to do to really accept and let go?

I have been far better at self-care these past months: I have taken up running and continue swimming. I am trying to have a regular sleep/wake rhythm and I am trying to eat more healthily and lose some weight. I have noticed though, that wearing myself down and lack of sleep help me to look inwards, to get in touch with my true self. It is almost as if I have to break down my own defenses to allow myself to look within. That does not sound healthy though. Can anyone relate?

Similarly, when looking inward and trying to learn and progress on an emotional level, I have very little emotional energy still on offer for others. This is at the expense of the people I care most for: my children and my husband. I will almost go into hiding mode, isolate myself a lot more, and avoid social contact. Hugs, bed time rituals for the children, etc. all become a ‘chore’ instead of feeling natural and caring as they mostly do. This then causes a sense of guilt and failing as a parent/partner/healthy adult. Again: can anyone relate? How can I improve the emotional balance between inner work and normal, day-to-day interactions?

Due to hefty renovations in our house, our family of four has temporarily moved in with my MIL. We have been there for 2 weeks now. We will be there for at least 4 more weeks. Though it is stressful and we all miss our own ‘space’, it has generally gone very smoothly. It also has been very instructive for me: my MIL has good boundaries. We agreed on responsibilities and divided chores and tasks early on. They need not be renegotiated, and everybody does his/her bit in their own time. Everybody has a surprisingly large amount of space and freedom. This is all new to me. It is so different to how my FOO works. It is teaching me to let go, that space is not bad, that you do not need to know every next step the people you care about will be taking. It has made me understand why, in the past, DH sometimes felt suffocated by my ‘care’ and my constant attention-giving.

My MIL also said some things that worry me, mostly about D9: she is worrier, looking back a lot instead of moving forward, she sees the negative before the positive in many things, she’s very sensitive, and she needs a lot of external validation. All this makes her come across as attention-seeking to my MIL. I know that it is not attention seeking, that D9 is probably HSP and still needs a lot of support and feedback to process emotions. My MIL also said she thought D9 got most of this from my mother, and that she sees some of these traits reflected in me as well. That scares the   out of me. All my life I have focused on being different from my mother. I do not want to be so negative, self-defeating, insecure, needy, waify. Argh! I know I have these traits. I know I see them in D9. I know I have to be careful not to invalidate her, but to help her learn to manage and understand herself. But still….it is VERY hard for me to accept that I have traits from my mother, and even harder to see them reflected in my daughter, and to accept those in her.

I know, a lot of rambling…
Thank you for reading,

 
Libra

[Libra]

Hi,

Some thoughts have been rolling over and over in my mind for too long. I thought I might write them down here. Sorry if this is a rambling post…

I wondered out loud one evening who gets the most out of music – DH or me. Without a seconds’ thought, DH answered: ‘You of course, you need it to process your emotions, whereas I can mostly just regulate them in my day-to-day life. So true. I use music to self-soothe, and I use books and reading to hide, to escape into another world.

I have been so busy with day-to-day life that I made little progress in emotional learning this past month. There is a pull however, to go back to working on my inner self. I still feel a victim of my childhood. There are some incidents that still linger in my mind. Though I wrote them out, talked them over with a T, even did some EMDR, they still have an emotional impact on me. I suspect me still feeling a victim also affects my current relationships and my sense of self. I am not sure how to progress further. What do I have to do to really accept and let go?

I have been far better at self-care these past months: I have taken up running and continue swimming. I am trying to have a regular sleep/wake rhythm and I am trying to eat more healthily and lose some weight. I have noticed though, that wearing myself down and lack of sleep help me to look inwards, to get in touch with my true self. It is almost as if I have to break down my own defenses to allow myself to look within. That does not sound healthy though. Can anyone relate?

Similarly, when looking inward and trying to learn and progress on an emotional level, I have very little emotional energy still on offer for others. This is at the expense of the people I care most for: my children and my husband. I will almost go into hiding mode, isolate myself a lot more, and avoid social contact. Hugs, bed time rituals for the children, etc. all become a ‘chore’ instead of feeling natural and caring as they mostly do. This then causes a sense of guilt and failing as a parent/partner/healthy adult. Again: can anyone relate? How can I improve the emotional balance between inner work and normal, day-to-day interactions?

Due to hefty renovations in our house, our family of four has temporarily moved in with my MIL. We have been there for 2 weeks now. We will be there for at least 4 more weeks. Though it is stressful and we all miss our own ‘space’, it has generally gone very smoothly. It also has been very instructive for me: my MIL has good boundaries. We agreed on responsibilities and divided chores and tasks early on. They need not be renegotiated, and everybody does his/her bit in their own time. Everybody has a surprisingly large amount of space and freedom. This is all new to me. It is so different to how my FOO works. It is teaching me to let go, that space is not bad, that you do not need to know every next step the people you care about will be taking. It has made me understand why, in the past, DH sometimes felt suffocated by my ‘care’ and my constant attention-giving.

My MIL also said some things that worry me, mostly about D9: she is worrier, looking back a lot instead of moving forward, she sees the negative before the positive in many things, she’s very sensitive, and she needs a lot of external validation. All this makes her come across as attention-seeking to my MIL. I know that it is not attention seeking, that D9 is probably HSP and still needs a lot of support and feedback to process emotions. My MIL also said she thought D9 got most of this from my mother, and that she sees some of these traits reflected in me as well. That scares the   out of me. All my life I have focused on being different from my mother. I do not want to be so negative, self-defeating, insecure, needy, waify. Argh! I know I have these traits. I know I see them in D9. I know I have to be careful not to invalidate her, but to help her learn to manage and understand herself. But still….it is VERY hard for me to accept that I have traits from my mother, and even harder to see them reflected in my daughter, and to accept those in her.

I know, a lot of rambling…
Thank you for reading,

 
Libra

[JNChell]

This is a great post, Libra.

Music is wonderful. I’m glad that you possess it. DH basically says that it grounds you. Ok. Grain of salt. What types of music do you like? What are you into?

I have been so busy with day-to-day life that I made little progress in emotional learning

No biggie. We have responsibilities outside of getting through this stuff. Hard to do sometimes? Yes, but we get it done.

There is a pull however, to go back to working on my inner self.

Grab it. Listen to it. It’s the most important thing that you can do. Work on yourself. I do it daily. It’s ok to worry about your self. It’s necessary. For me, it’s been noticing when I clench my teeth and when I breathe shallow. I recognize these things and cut them off. Sometimes, minute by minute.

I support you on working on your inner self . What is lingering?

I have been far better at self-care these past months: I have taken up running and continue swimming. I am trying to have a regular sleep/wake rhythm and I am trying to eat more healthily and lose some weight

This is great! I’m working on my self care more. I’m terrible at it, but progress is being made. I haven’t been swimming in a long time.  I lift weights and try to keep up on my chores. Running is where it’s at. I can’t do that anymore. I can ride a bike, I haven’t taken it out yet, though. Eating healthy has been leaps and bounds. I wish that there were more discussions here on what we put in our bodies.

It’s understandable to not have much left (emotionally) while you’re trying to process your own stuff. Do your best to be there for the kids. They need you. Parenting is exhausting but full of grace.

I’m mentally spent here. My mind is tired. I hope that the renovation goes well. I’m also glad that you’re seeing boundaries in your MIL. Perhaps, with your last 4 weeks there you can bond with her.

[Libra]

Hi JNChell,

What types of music do you like? What are you into?

My musical taste is all over the place. I basically like everything that touches or moves me. That can go from classical  to grunge to whatever. Sorry, that's very vague. I'm currently still into the last Radiohead album, I still love Nina Simone, Fleetwood Mac, Alt-J, … I was introduced to JJ Cale this weekend and will be exploring his works this week I think.

What is lingering?

Nothing hyper dramatic. Some old rages from my mother when I was a teen that are still logged in my mind somehow. Mainly the ones where she  tells me I'm a worthless, lying, conniving piece of  like my dad (this was during divorce) and could not be trusted. Maybe I keep hanging on to them because they are the only memories I have from my childhood and teens. I don't remember much else.

I recently heard a song while running that reminded me of my dad. It was "Theme from Shaft" by Isaac Hayes. For the first time in a very long time, I actually just grinned, and thought 'Hey Dad, this one's for you!'. I did not feel the usual loathing or mess of emotions. My dad was really into music. My mother always sneered at this, as far as I remember.  I never liked my dads' music taste, which was all Bossanova-like, except for the Shaft theme, and "Spinning wheel" by Shirley Bassey. In my mind those 2 songs are forever linked to my dad.

Good to hear you are keeping up with the weights. The hardest part for me is to keep consciously making time for sports. It is so easy to find something else that is more important (and good for someone else). But it is so true: self-care is very important. For me it is part of standing up for myself: I have to claim time just for me, to take care of me, and yes, that is important and not selfish. I'm sorry you can't run anymore. It is hard to have to give up something you really like. Maybe try the bike though. Doing something outdoors can be very beneficial.

I hear you on the healthy eating. For me, it is the first thing that goes out the window when things are harder. It is very important though. It is one of the most basic and important forms of self-care, IMO.

I keep trying for the graceful parenting, JNChell, but I often only get to the 'controlled and making every effort'-level. And then I need to remind myself that I am conscious of my shortcomings and trying to improve. That is all I can do and I shouldn't beat myself up about it all the time. I wonder if our kids can see the self-criticism, and internalize some of it. I hope not.

Thank you for being here, JNChell.

Libra.

[Sunfl0wer]

It is almost as if I have to break down my own defenses to allow myself to look within. That does not sound healthy though. Can anyone relate?

Absolutely, yes!

Balancing doing inner reflection/therapeutic work and managing day to day stuff is an ongoing challenge for me.  Some of the most profound work I have done in my trauma therapy (we also do EMDR, I am HUGE fan!) was the result of me nearing self sabotage of my life via living on the edge of what is and isn’t ok for me.  In particular I had destabilized my work environment and that act of feeling like all my foundation was a threat to my sense of self led to some major revelations of self, growth and began me exploring so much about who I am and how I define that and how I exist in any meaningful ways.

For me... looking back... I can see that destabilizing work was needed.  I needed to reprioritize and return attentions to family stuff and well... I was being my own self tyrant in overworking myself.  Following recent work crisis events, I really grew and developed a much wiser perspective on how work, family, social and such have better places in me now.

I am not done... I have so so so much to sort out.  Just wanted to chime in tho to say I relate.

Having said that... when my day to day life is calm and stable... it can feel harder to dig into the deeper recesses of my mind to get into the trauma aspects of my head and work those areas that need it.

Maybe more simply said...
Having a crisis at the surface can enable me to conjure up great inner resources for a type of healing that can help not just for what is happening today, yet also can help me unwire many threads of my own understanding to give me a sense of lasting healing over the surfaced themes that were effectively worked with.

[LumosNox22]

Some old rages from my mother when I was a teen that are still logged in my mind somehow. Mainly the ones where she  tells me I'm a worthless, lying, conniving piece of  Cursing -like my dad (this was during divorce) and could not be trusted. Maybe I keep hanging on to them because they are the only memories I have from my childhood and teens. I don't remember much else.

I am new to the site and new to talking to anyone who has similar experiences. That's what I remember the most from my childhood is the "rages" that is the best explanation of it, I have ever heard.  For me, my mother's degrading was more subtle, and made me feel all the more self involved. She would say things like you're lazy, and selfish, and that I didn't have it bad.
I am sorry you had to go through that. Take it from me, when I look back, and imagine those situations on friends or my son, I freak out on how that it was not healthy. That is was wrong. That the things she "raged" about were in consequential.

Also, on that note, I don't want to feel like a victim. Feeling like a victim---feels like 1 of the 7 deadly sins. But maybe, Libra (I'm a Libra too), accepting that we were victims is part of the "self-care"? I'm still learning but reading what you have to say it seems a lot is resting on that. Sometimes, I feel crazy because when I try to talk to my mom about these things, she denies them and acts like they weren't that bad.

Thanks for a good post!

[Harri]

Great thread and discussion!   

LumnosNox said:

But maybe, Libra (I'm a Libra too), accepting that we were victims is part of the "self-care"? I'm still learning but reading what you have to say it seems a lot is resting on that. Sometimes, I feel crazy because when I try to talk to my mom about these things, she denies them and acts like they weren't that bad.

Yes.  It took me a long time to be able to just say "I was a victim".  I finally realized my refusal/defense against being a victim was keeping me a victim.

Libra, I enjoy JJ Cale.  It sounds like this time with your in-laws is very good and giving you a new perspective of your life and your husbands. 

All my life I have focused on being different from my mother. I do not want to be so negative, self-defeating, insecure, needy, waify. Argh! I know I have these traits. I know I see them in D9. I know I have to be careful not to invalidate her, but to help her learn to manage and understand herself. But still….it is VERY hard for me to accept that I have traits from my mother, and even harder to see them reflected in my daughter, and to accept those in her.

Yep, I see a lot of my mom in me too and not just emotional, personality stuff either.  I even sit like her sometimes!    Not that that is a huge thing but I groaned when I realized this... and hell if I can change it.  So what I work on is changing the script that runs in my head when I recognize her in me.  Self talk is very powerful for me.

[JNChell]

Hi, Libra. My musical tastes are all over the board as well. Part of being a musician. Classical to Metal and everything in between. You should join us on the Stump the Experts board. “What Music are You Listening To?” By Happy Chappy. It’s a fun thread.

That lingering crap that we were fed. It just won’t go away. I wonder if it ever will. Likely, it won’t. We can talk back to it though, can’t we? We can tell them to shut up and that they don’t know what they’re talking about. We have that power now. They’re voices instilled by very unwell people. Voices only hurt us if we let them.

I wonder how much the kiddos pick up on as well. I think it’s more than we know. I think that we need to be very mindful of that. I think that for several reasons. We need to be careful about our own vulnerabilities and what our kiddos think they can get away with and with getting wrapped up in our own stuff and pulling away from them. There’s a lot more in between, but you get it.

Always here, Libra. Thanks for doing the same.

[Libra]

Hi Sunfl0wer!

Thanks so much for your reply! It always feels good to know that someone - a) understands what you are trying to say, and  - b) can actually relate!

YesYesYes! Destabilizing yourself...self-sabotaging up to a point where you are forced to actively choose for yourself again, and – when on the brink – suddenly finding the willingness and energy to dig even deeper and push through to some new learning.

Pfew, it feels good to know I’m not the only one with these strange subconscious tactics.

Libra.

[Libra]

Hello LumosNox22,

Welcome to the boards!

I can relate to the subtle, demeaning and snide remarks. They can do so much damage. I am sorry your mother treated you that way.

Imagining similar treatment for other children that age is indeed a very good way to gauge whether a behavior is healthy or acceptable. I always forget that. I cannot even start to imagine my D9 having to go through some of the tirades my mother laid on me sometimes! Which makes it hard to accept that my mother was capable of doing just that. But you are right – acceptance is a big part of it. I feel my teen self is still very angry, confused and let down because of the things that were said to her. She needs some TLC and some understanding.

I no longer try to talk to my mother about past issues. Her memory of events is completely different from mine. She rewrites history to better fit her perceived role as a victim. It most certainly made me feel very crazy sometimes!  So much so that I started to write down what happened for later reference.  This helped me sort out fact from fiction. I realized there was no use talking to my mother about these issues. She would never acknowledge what happened, because in her mind it did not happen that way.

I am glad you found these boards. I hope you feel right at home and free to join in and post and share.

Stay balanced! 

Libra.

[Libra]

Harri,

You’ve made me curious: what was the automatic script in your head, and what have you replaced it with?

Seeing echoes of my mother in myself is still very hard. It can get me in spiral of self-loathing. I think partly because my mother was/is always projecting on me, and my first reaction is to rebel against that. The self-loathing never lasts long though, because wallowing in self-pity is another strong trait in my mother, and I refuse to play that victim card. Damn it Libra, just be yourself and be happy with that!

Seeing some of my mothers’ behaviors repeated in D9 can be very triggering. I constantly need to remind myself that it is normal for a 9-year-old to be exploring emotions and reacting. It is not normal for an adult. Not when that adult is responsible for raising a child, nor when that adult is a senior that has trouble coping with day-to-day life.

I have to start acknowledging though that my mother isn’t all bad either. She tried her best with her limited means. I do not think she could/can do any better. I still yearn a real motherly hug though. Some loving acceptance of who I am. I hug my kids every day. They love telling me they love me, and they feel free and safe to do so. I am not a perfect mom, by far, but that is at least one thing that has improved in comparison to the previous generation.

Thanks Harri!



Libra.

[Libra]

Hi JNChell,

I sometimes hang around on that thread. It has introduced me to a lot of American artists I had never heard of before. I’m too insecure to join in though. Music plays a big part as my emotional outlet, it is a sensitive subject for me. In my teens, I tried to connect to my brother a few times through music. He always ended up ridiculing me, for self-protection, because he did not want to, or could not, open up. I have learnt to keep my music close to my heart. I only share with DH sometimes. Even if he does not get the ‘vibe’ that moves me in a song, he always understands that it  touches me in some way, and he will never ridicule it. I often cannot even explain what it is that gets me in a song, or connect it to an emotion a can verbalize. I fear I’m still too emotionally stunted to manage many emotions in any other way than through music. Sorry, I don’t mean to sound waifish, I think it is simply a sad fact.

I don’t know whether forcing those voices to shut up is the healthiest solution? I’ve tried that for so many years. They keep coming back, mostly when they’re least welcome, aka when I’m already struggling with something else. I do think putting them in the right framework is important: they are not truths, they were made by someone who wasn’t in their right mind, and they do not reflect on you/me. That’s one part of it. The other part is healing the scars and the hurt those words made. Seeing the scars for what they are and loving the person they are on nonetheless. Sorry, I’m rambling again….

Some kiddos are more sensitive to their parents’ inner turmoil than others, I think. S8 is much more easy going than D9. She picks up on the slightest tremor and will be influenced by it. He will also feel it. He might come over to give an extra hug, but then he’ll move on. It is hard to now how much to communicate to D9. I do not want to make her feel responsible, but I do not want to make her feel excluded either. It is hard work, parenting. But it is also very rewarding.

Keep lifting those weights, JNChell, both physically and emotionally

Libra.

[Harri]

You’ve made me curious: what was the automatic script in your head, and what have you replaced it with?

 Oh you know, the typical inappropriate, politically incorrect and abusive self talk I often use.  

Bad script:
Harri, you are as bat crazy as she was.  You look like her, you laugh like her, you sit like her... you *are* her.  She was gross and disgusting and so are you.  blah, blah, blah

Better script:
Now you are just playing victim and wallowing dear.  You know this is not true so why are you victimizing and lying to yourself?  Just because you laugh like her or sit like her does not mean you are her.  You like sitting the way you sit.  It is comfortable!  Are you really going to change you based on the rantings of a mentally ill person who is still in your head?  Don't listen to crazy.

Best script:
Shut up you dope.  (that part only works on me when I say it to myself with love... otherwise shut up belongs in a different script category!)  Get out of your emotional mind and use your Wise Mind for this.  Is this stuff true?  If it is, change.  If it isn't, you've got some more work to do and that is okay.

Stuff like that.

[Zabava]

Libra,

I relate to how hard it is to be emotionally available to your kids and trying to heal from BPD parents.  Sometimes I have nothing left and just retreat to my bed...I feel guilty but at the same time I know I am need to heal so I can keep being there in the future.

I know how hard it is to recognize my mother in some of my behaviours but it does not mean I am the same person.  Just being aware of BPD and how it has affected us makes us more caring parents in my opinion.

[Libra]

Harri,

I like - and agree with - the best script.

It is crazy how that inner voice can be harsher than anything one would say out loud to another person.
You deserve the best voice in your head. I hope you know that.



Libra.

[Libra]

Zabava,

Yes, it is hard.
At least we are aware of it and trying!

Thank you for being here.



Libra.